Q and A. Dispelling The Myths And Misnomers Of Christianity.

reply to post by Klassified


If salvation is a gift, then why are there so many stipulations attached to it? Aren't gifts, by definition, free and not require anything in return from the receiver?

If yes, then why do you have to: repent of all sins, believe, have faith, become baptized, and perform works in order to acquire salvation? Doesn't sound like a gift to me.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Klassified

 

No. Because the will of the father first and foremost is that you receive eternal life through Christ.

What does this mean?

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

It is part of a prayer. It is a call for God's Kingdom to be established on earth. And for his will to be followed on earth, as it already is in heaven.

Is it the main duty of those in heaven to accept salvation, or is this referring to something else, which involves doing something other than just a mental assent to a concept?

edit on 1-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

It is up to those on earth (humans) to choose salvation. And it is a change of heart toward God, not a mental assent.

edit on 7/1/2011 by Klassified because: (no reason given)

reply to post by jmdewey60


This is part of the reason that threads like this are fruitless. As I stated previously, there are close to 40,000 christian denominations with as many different beliefs. I respect your beliefs as I do respect the OP disbelief. I am not presently inclined nor have I ever been inclined to attempt to change another's belief system. I just cannot accept it as my own. The Bible says study to shew thyself approved. I suggested a study on dispensations. Can you suggest a study for me on your doctrine? I will certainly study it and compare it to God's word to see if it stands.

reply to post by novastrike81


The only requirement for the gift of salvation is to accept it.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Klassified

 

As much as my heart wants to team up with you-
2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not UNEQUALLY YOKED together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

This tells me I cannot.

You are not teaming up with me. You are looking out for the interests of those you pray for God to save by giving them biblical truth instead of twisted facts. But as you wish. I might have used that same verse in your shoes.

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by Klassified

 

If salvation is a gift, then why are there so many stipulations attached to it? Aren't gifts, by definition, free and not require anything in return from the receiver?

If yes, then why do you have to: repent of all sins, believe, have faith..

You make this sound like it is a chore. Repenting of all sins is a must, to receive the gift, because the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which should be obvious to anyone, that you cannot be forgiven if you deny Christ.

Believing and having faith are something that almost seem like a given. That's like me saying to my child, "Hey, I'll give you this present, but you first must acknowledge me as your dad."

I mean.. What is he going to say? "No thanks, you aren't my dad?"

...become baptized, and perform works in order to acquire salvation? Doesn't sound like a gift to me.

Stop right there. I don't know anywhere in the Bible that states you must be baptized and/or perform works in order to get salvation.

You clearly never heard of "saved by grace, through faith", it was mentioned a few times in this thread already.

reply to post by xFiDgetx


True, the site that I copied that from actually misreferenced which translation that that came from. However, your pathetic attempt at derailing the point I was making disgusts me. You are obviously so biased and brainwashed that you cannot accept what your own "holy" book says. If you want to get very technical, the words translated as rape are taphas -to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize.
and shakab -to lie down. It is blatantly obvious to me, and all translators of the bible, (except the King James Version and New Living Translation [apparently, you are only familiar with those translations, as they are the only ones that I am aware don't use the word "rape"]) that those words mean to have sex with someone forcibly.

If you need further proof of what I say, all you need to do is read the proceeding verses: If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
It is obvious that the book is talking about rape.
Read your #ing book before you try to mince words with me.
Pathetic

reply to post by NOTurTypical

there are two judgments, the "Great White Throne Judgment", which Christ is speaking of. And the "Judgment Seat" or "Behma Seat Judgment of Christ". Christians go to the Bhema judgment for the reward or loss of crowns for faithful service as a Christian.

I posted a rely previously in response to this, giving a list of verses which refute it. You declined to respond and now you are back, making the same claim, and again not citing any verses to back it up. How about going back and fixing that problem before I answer any more of your posts on this or any thread?

reply to post by Klassified





Christianity is a study in contradictions as is any religion. The reason is the involvement of human beings. Even in the process of revelation when God speaks through a messenger to the people on earth what He says is necessarily passed through a human brain and is thus somewhat corrupted.

Now take a look at Christianity today and try to make a single coherent statement. There are hundreds, who really knows how many, Christian sects in existence and a large number of Bibles. I am not talking about translations here I mean editions of Bibles. If that collection of books is to be held sacred then who has the right to delete some of it and/or to change it? None of us should even consider such a thing. But it has happened and is always subsequently referred to as "the Word of God" regardless. The first collection of scripture that was to become the Bible was ordered by Constantine. He wanted 50 copies in the initial publication which would be used to guide the new Holy Roman empire in it's new religion. If the Bible is the inviolate Word of God we should still be using this very same work but we do not. Well the Catholics do. The rest of us wanted to separate from Rome for largely political and social reasons so we decided the Word of God should reflect that view. Then King James translated from the Latin into the language of the people. So, compare KJV to the Catholic versions, note the differences, and they are many, and try to say that the Bible is the Word of God. A liberal will have no problem with this because he/she understands human nature. The liberal will read them all and find the essential truths within. The ultra conservative will ignore one and choose the other though. This is the difference. So, we have essentially two branches of Christianity, excluding the various orthodox brands. Now comes America with some new ideas in scriptural meanings.

Apologists of all this will say something like "The Bible is the Word of God" or it is essentially the Word of God. The fact of all the details doesn't bother them a bit. There are two stories of creation in the original but in KJV there is only one. Doesn't this matter at all? Apparently not. Well all this is OK but we really shouldn't be hearing claims that this or that is correct or right or wrong when we have messed with the Word of God so much over the ages. Human beings are quite unbelievable.

Having lived for a long time in and out of religions I have decided to believe in God but to reject religions as being the works of man only. And that is where I stand today. You know what? I think I have lots of company. So far as I am concerned the trouble with Christianity is preachers who are stuck in the past and wholly clueless as to the realities of which they claim to represent. God yes. Religion no.

reply to post by trailertrash



Very good discourse and historically accurate.

One of the problems with Christianity ; it is a modern construct, organized and created long after Christ walked the earth. There are outright conflicts within the Bible that do not nor will ever add up..if Christ is the only avenue to everlasting life, then what happens to the promises God made to the Jewish People, and if God intended to modify his promise with the Jewish people, then why make it in the first place..?...or to someone who never reads a Bible..they are condemned to hell for no other reason than they never had a Bible...?

This is nonsense and is obvious we have been given diluted and corrupted versions of whatever actually occurred.

reply to post by Klassified


If you are no longer a Christian then you have personally decided that Christian teachings and doctrine are not true, for whatever reason. If that is the case then any answer that you have is nullified by the fact that you don't believe it yourself. You may as well be offering answers on the Harry Potter collection.

Originally posted by ariel bender
reply to post by trailertrash

 

or to someone who never reads a Bible..they are condemned to hell for no other reason than they never had a Bible...?

This is why there are Missionaries... to spread the word throughout the world. Jesus says in the Bible that he will not return until all men have heard the word of God.

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776

How would you respond to the assertion that the biblical God was a misogynistic, hateful deity based on the scriptures referenced on this site?

The answer lies in the site which you mentioned.

EvilBible.com is a non-profit web site which was developed to promote atheism by revealing the wicked truth about the Bible and religion.

Source

reply to post by Klassified

Yes. Because christianity is not based on whether you are a good or bad person. It is your acceptance of Christs sacrifice as being the atonement for your sins, and clearing the way for you to be reconciled to God through him. As well as a belief that God raised him from the dead.

And i will also add, to your answer that in Romans 2 if you read it, there is a passage which basically says : Therefore, even Gentiles - people not under the Law of Moses, those who do not know of Christ - have an internal law from God, the natural law written in their hearts, according to which God will judge them.

Hope that helps

Peace

All right time to have fun rattling cages. Just alittle history on myself. I'm agnostic. Just like OP I've studied christianity into agnosticism. Why not atheism some may ask, well, simply cause I've seen enough spirits and other things of the unnatural to know there is a greater power. Anyways onto a few questions.

Do you believe christians should study more then just king james bible. They should move onto older scriptures where there is some interesting facts. I swear, I meet people nowadays that have no idea who Lilith is.

What do you think of "king james" translations versus finding original meaning to old scripture. Such as "virgin" Mary not being a virgin at all but just had child during the working season when women weren't supposed to be having child (hence virgin was a mistranslation of celibrate.In an age when wives would have different titles going with the season.)" Witch/witchcraft meaning "poisoner" and "someone who brings curses". etc.

In older scripture, Yahwah (god) actually had family. A father, brother, wife, and son are references I've seen so far (actually that son was not jesus or at least went by a different name). What do you think happened to them along the line?

What do you think of Da Vinci Code theories? Could Jesus have been married to Mary Magdaline and asked her to continue her work, but John was a sexist and spread the word she was a prostitute so he could continue Jesus' work his own way?

I'm interested in hearing your answers since you seem to be well studied.

reply to post by novastrike81

become baptized, and perform works in order to acquire salvation?

Those are not stipulations for salvation. For sanctification yes, but not justification to God. (Romans 10:9)

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

there are two judgments, the "Great White Throne Judgment", which Christ is speaking of. And the "Judgment Seat" or "Behma Seat Judgment of Christ". Christians go to the Bhema judgment for the reward or loss of crowns for faithful service as a Christian.

I posted a rely previously in response to this, giving a list of verses which refute it. You declined to respond and now you are back, making the same claim, and again not citing any verses to back it up. How about going back and fixing that problem before I answer any more of your posts on this or any thread?

Sir, it doesn't bother me if you choose to reply to me or not. I'm here to share the truth of God's word.


The Bema Seat Judgement vs. The Great White Throne Judgement

And Here:



(And actually there are THREE judgments spoken of. I didn't mention the "goats and sheep judgment" that will happen just immediately after the Great Tribulation and prior to the 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth.)

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by Klassified

 

If salvation is a gift, then why are there so many stipulations attached to it? Aren't gifts, by definition, free and not require anything in return from the receiver?

If yes, then why do you have to: repent of all sins, believe, have faith, become baptized, and perform works in order to acquire salvation? Doesn't sound like a gift to me.

Because without the awareness and understanding of transgression against God, you aren't able to understand the need for the gift, and therefore can't receive it. Because you have no understanding of its meaning to you as an individual.

Once you understand that "all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God." and change your mind/heart toward God, you receive the gift of eternal life through Christ by the very faith that was given you to be able to believe it to begin with. In other words, God himself gives you the faith to believe.

Baptism is an outward identifying with the life, death, and ressurrection of Christ. A confession, and a work of faith. It is not an absolute for salvation.

Works are the outcome of an ongoing relationship with God. And have nothing to do with receiving salvation.

Also see Lionhearte's reply.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by Klassified

 

If you are no longer a Christian then you have personally decided that Christian teachings and doctrine are not true, for whatever reason. If that is the case then any answer that you have is nullified by the fact that you don't believe it yourself. You may as well be offering answers on the Harry Potter collection.

Just because I am an atheist, does not mean I have forgotten all the things I used to believe, and all the things I learned from reading my bible. I could still put together a sermon if I had to, just like so many unbelieving pastors around the world do today. In other words, I can still think from that perspective, and draw on that knowledge. If 1 or 2 people in this thread get a better understanding, and it clears up a myth or misconception they thought was true, then this thread has not been fruitless.

It has always been the christian's duty to reach out to the masses at an individual level, and share with them the truth of scripture. The only problem I see with this thread is that an atheist cared more about peoples erroneous beliefs than most of the christians here do. I shouldn't have had a chance to start this thread. It should have already been done by real christians. No matter how many sects there are. You either have a heart for the lost, or you don't. From what I have seen thus far, only one in this thread does.

reply to post by trailertrash

From a christian perspective. The core of christianity has never changed. And its core teaching is the same. Reconciliation to God through Christ. Love God. And Love your neighbor as yourself. It is the same teaching that has been handed down by word of mouth for generations. I simplified it a little, but there isn't much more to it than that.

The thing about christianity is its simplicitly. Again, from a christian perspective, the new testament leaves no room for legalism. Anyone can become a christian, and live a christian life, even if they never own a bible. This is what got Jesus and the disciples into so much trouble. They tore down the establishments legal system, and replaced it with something so simple, you can't hardly go wrong.

The church however, especially the leadership, decided they couldn't make enough money, and control enough of the masses without the old testament(covenant) law. So they convinced everyone that Jesus fulfillment of the law really didn't mean what he said it did. They pulled all the legalism back into the church, and are still oppressing christians and non-christians alike today with it.

The big deception of christianity. The big hidden secret is it's simplicitly. Which is spelled out incessantly over and over again in the new testament(covenant).

reply to post by furzball

As a christian, what I came to believe was that Christ was an incredibly brilliant man/God. He made serving and following God so simple, a child could do it, even if they had never read a bible.

What I came to believe is that christianity is not a book of rules and regulations to follow. It was never meant to be put in a book. At all. Period. That was mans doing. It was meant to be taught to each new generation in its simplicity. Which still survives today in any translation or version. All christians should be able to teach the simple concepts of christianity to anyone without ever opening a bible. All else is fluff. Once those simple concepts are expounded to an individual, it is up to God to speak to their heart, and bring them to the point of repentance. And the life they live after that is a life of a simple concept. Being led by the holy spirit of God. Christians are to be a law unto themselves. The law is written in their hearts, not in a book.

IMHO, as a kind of Balaam's donkey, if you will. Christians need to walk away from the corporate and government run churches. Throw their bibles in the trashcan. And live in the simplicity of the "gospel". But since they can't see the forest for the trees, that isn't going to happen.

As to your other questions, they are interesting to the effect of a study of history. But as I have stated repeatedly, the thread was to help people understand what christians believe, and don't believe as a whole.

The concept for this thread was simple. But as usual, man has this innate ability to complicate, distort, nitpick, and legalize the simplest of things. Christian and heathen alike.

If you decide to start a thread on these, I'd be happy to discuss them though. This thread got derailed quickly. But hopefully someone got something out of it.