Q and A. Dispelling The Myths And Misnomers Of Christianity.

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776

How I personally would respond is not the topic of the thread. How a christian would respond might be that God created all that exists, and can do with it as he pleases. In other words, even christians don't completely understand why God chose to do some things.

Originally posted by Klassified

Originally posted by mb2591
Why do you think so many people that have been raised into christianity or any religion have decided it false and become agnostic or atheist?

I am trying to keep my own opinion out of this as much as I can. But I believe it's for two reasons. False teachers in the church. And some like myself, studied themselves right into atheism.

So, correcting Christian misunderstandings and disinformation with an atheist slant? That will be profitable!
Jeremiah 7:8
Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot PROFIT.

Mark 8:36
For what shall it PROFIT a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Klassified

 

So your position is?? That the earth is 6000 years old and was literally created in 6 days?
You stated that you wanted to correct the misunderstandings- in order to accomplish this you have to establish from the onset exactly where you stand on these issues. Do you still take the bible literally? Do you believe that the King James Version is the inspired words of God in English? These are important questions that need to be established early so that it can be ascertained where your answers are coming from.

No. My position is to give a general overview of what christians believe and don't believe. My position is to point out where christians agree, or are divided on a given doctrine. Not all christians are literalists like I was. Some are more liberal. And where I am aware of this, I will point it out. I am not an authority. I am one willing to share what I know, in hopes that it will help people understand in general what christians believe. And what they don't believe.

Originally posted by symogums
so by the christian system a person who lies cheats uses others for their own benefit accepts jesus all is forgiven and go's to heaven and some poor person born somewhere where they never hear of a church or jesus but helps everyone sacrifices personal benefits for others and promotes love in the world go's to hell.... great system

I would join in with symogums in this sort of response to what looks like single verse theology.
What I mean is ignoring the context and all other texts that seem to express variants or sometimes contradictory information, and picking one specific line to be the end-all and the entire explanation. So, no qualifications whatsoever? How about the advantages we have today of knowing quite a bit about Jesus, compared to the thief on the cross who may not have even heard of Jesus before the day he died.

reply to post by Klassified

Most christians see this verse as God speaking to Satan. The womans seed being man. (Though some see it as being a prophecy of the messiah). And the serpents seed being the wicked.

It is about the Messiah. The "seed of the woman" is a contradiction. It's the first OT reference to the virgin birth. Everyone else born of a woman is a seed of a man.

Originally posted by Klassified

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Klassified

 

So your position is?? That the earth is 6000 years old and was literally created in 6 days?
You stated that you wanted to correct the misunderstandings- in order to accomplish this you have to establish from the onset exactly where you stand on these issues. Do you still take the bible literally? Do you believe that the King James Version is the inspired words of God in English? These are important questions that need to be established early so that it can be ascertained where your answers are coming from.

No. My position is to give a general overview of what christians believe and don't believe. My position is to point out where christians agree, or are divided on a given doctrine. Not all christians are literalists like I was. Some are more liberal. And where I am aware of this, I will point it out. I am not an authority. I am one willing to share what I know, in hopes that it will help people understand in general what christians believe. And what they don't believe.

There are somewhere between 30,000 and 40,000 christian denominations. Christians do not generally agree on anything. This thread is fruitless.

Originally posted by micmerci
What is your position on the creation of the universe?
Evolution?

Although I do not consider myself a Christian, I am a Theist. However, like many others, I was raised up within Christianity. As such, I have had the opportunity to observe several different denominations of Christianity such as Lutheran, Pentecostal, Southern Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, and non-denominational. So, not only am I quite knowledgeable about the Bible, but several of it's interpretations. On this one area, it is widely accepted as fact that it only took 6 days for the entire universe to be created and completely formed.
As far as evolution goes, this varies amongst the individuals who I have and/or currently do converse with about Creation..
Personally, as far as my view on Christianity's version of creation, comes solely from Young's Literal Translation.
www.biblegateway.com...
If you are not familiar with it, I suggest you read it, at least Genesis 1:1.
To me, the way it reads is like a log book, or to be more precise...a journal.
Notice how there seems to be, more or less, a staggered viewpoint. As though it's depicting totally different stages of what could be evolutionary development. Furthermore, each different stage ends the same way..."...and there is an evening, and there is a morning--day one." "...and there is an evening, and there is a morning--day two"
Well, it's a well known that many visions happens 'Whilst in the Spirit of the Lord'. Although, it does not state this fact about this particular event, it does leave room for interpretation as to whether this was while in an awoken state, or during a restful state...such as sleeping.
Therefore, this leads me to believe that the original author of the text may in fact had been subject to 'visions' during sleep.
Also, it is not specifically noted by said author that what all events seen during these 'visions' were of the universe being created in 6 days. No! Merely, that these 'visions' lasted a duration of 6 consecutive nights (not including the 7th night of what transpired after all was created), and that the author made reference to this fact buy ending each night's session by recording after waking in the morning Thus, "...and there was an evening, and there was a morning."
I hope that answers your question, at least from this Theist's point of view.

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Klassified

 

So your position is?? That the earth is 6000 years old and was literally created in 6 days?
You stated that you wanted to correct the misunderstandings- in order to accomplish this you have to establish from the onset exactly where you stand on these issues. Do you still take the bible literally? Do you believe that the King James Version is the inspired words of God in English? These are important questions that need to be established early so that it can be ascertained where your answers are coming from.

I think the problem people have with a 6,000 year old Earth, is that almost everyone believes geological change occurs over a long period of time.

A good place to start research on this, would be the Grand Canyon - it is said that it took millions of years for it to be carved out of the Colorado River, yet there are over 270 stories around the world that speak of a great flood, and in particular, the Huvusapai Indians who live near the Grand Canyon today - they say it was carved after the great flood receded.

Now, it sounds unbelievable, however, there is proof that such dramatic geological landmarks CAN be created in a short amount of time.

Research Georgia's Little Grand Canyon - it is a canyon that has been formed by naturally occurring events over a period of decades, not anywhere close to millions of years (and in relation to size, not even close to thousands of years).

You see, it is very much possible for geological changes to occur and give us present day Earth in as little as 6,000 years, while not having to give the excuse of God creating the Universe with 'age'.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Klassified

 

Most christians see this verse as God speaking to Satan. The womans seed being man. (Though some see it as being a prophecy of the messiah). And the serpents seed being the wicked.

It is about the Messiah. The "seed of the woman" is a contradiction. It's the first OT reference to the virgin birth. Everyone else born of a woman is a seed of a man.

I agree with you. This was the first prophesy in scripture and it has been fulfilled. Seems to me the OP came off as an authority at first but when confronted with questions from people who obviously knew the implications that came with the asking, has shrunk back to a position of "I am not an authority"
Scripture says that we are more than conquerors and 2 Timothy 3:16 states
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
My suggestion is for the OP is to grow a pair and state what he believes and stand behind it instead of compromising.

reply to post by BrandrTorny


Genesis can be read that way, but God wrote with His own finger in Exodus 20:11 that He created everything in six days. Jesus said in Mark 10:6 that God created Adam and Eve at the "beginning of creation". And if a Christian allows for Evolution then they allow death before the fall of Adam and Eve.

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx
Christianity is a collective of different beliefs, most similar and some different, all based to some degree on the bible. Often, Generalizations are made based off the beliefs held by the majority of "Christians"; IE: "Christians think innocent people deserve eternal suffering for not believing". Generalizations do not apply to all Christians though, just like stereotypes don't apply to all people who fall into whatever label you put into them.

Anything more than that, and you're talking about your own beliefs and interpretations. A very general belief held by many, even if you disagree, isn't a misnomer.

Though I agree people trying to critically decide on the bible should look at it. And hear the conclusions of people who put thought into it, instead of judging solely by the 'opiate for the masses' form of Christianity. They should also try to understand and interpret on their own.

I don't know, it just doesn't seem right to me for you to claim you're in a position to decide what's real and what's myth about Christianity as a whole. I can totally understand taking topics such as the Trinity, or hellfire, and explaining why they "Aren't christian", but they aren't actually "Myths about Christianity".

Maybe it's just your wording. It just seems too pretentious for me.

-
Sorry, carry on.

You may be partially right in your assertions. My hope for this thread was to dispell those "generalizations" you speak of, and give a general overview of the christian perspective, as opposed to what I see posted. I read some very wild posts by people that aren't even close to what christians think or believe.

Not pretentious at all. I don't claim to be God. Or to know it all. But I think I spent enough years as a christian to know what is doctrinal, and what isn't in most cases. As well as what most christians believe about a given topic.

reply to post by Lionhearte

I know where I stand on this subject. I believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. Specifically the King James Bible 1611.

Originally posted by symogums
so by the christian system a person who lies cheats uses others for their own benefit accepts jesus all is forgiven and go's to heaven and some poor person born somewhere where they never hear of a church or jesus but helps everyone sacrifices personal benefits for others and promotes love in the world go's to hell.... great system

Yes. Because christianity is not based on whether you are a good or bad person. It is your acceptance of Christs sacrifice as being the atonement for your sins, and clearing the way for you to be reconciled to God through him. As well as a belief that God raised him from the dead.

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

reply to post by micmerci


Ah, I see.

Point still stands, though, for anyone else who wonders how one could believe in a 6-day creation.

Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by Klassified

Originally posted by mb2591
Why do you think so many people that have been raised into christianity or any religion have decided it false and become agnostic or atheist?

I am trying to keep my own opinion out of this as much as I can. But I believe it's for two reasons. False teachers in the church. And some like myself, studied themselves right into atheism.

So, correcting Christian misunderstandings and disinformation with an atheist slant? That will be profitable!
Jeremiah 7:8
Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot PROFIT.

Mark 8:36
For what shall it PROFIT a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

My hope was that knowledgeable christians would take advantage of this thread and use it to correct errors that are seen consistently on ATS concerning doctrine and beliefs. As to me being an atheist, I don't see any christians offering to take on a project like this. So I did. You sound knowledgable. Pitch in.

reply to post by Lionhearte


In rereading my reply to your post, it read as if I was coming across kind of short with you. That was not my intention and I apologize if it read that way. I just wanted to get it out there where I am coming from on all these issues.

Originally posted by symogums
so by the christian system a person who lies cheats uses others for their own benefit accepts jesus all is forgiven and go's to heaven and some poor person born somewhere where they never hear of a church or jesus but helps everyone sacrifices personal benefits for others and promotes love in the world go's to hell.... great system

A person who willingly lies and cheats but claims to know Christ without repentance (ie, continues to live his life the way he wants, by lying, cheating, etc, no regards to changing his ways) is a lukewarm Christian.

Revelations 3:16

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

And works do not give you access to Heaven. God tried that already in the Old Testament, man is flawed and could not keep up with the perfect law. Jesus came, fulfilled the law, and all who accept him into their hearts and soul will appear 'like him' when they stand before God, and be welcomed into Heaven.

reply to post by micmerci


Oh no, it's fine, I didn't mean to sound like I was assuming anything by your original post, no harm no foul

Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Klassified

 

Most christians see this verse as God speaking to Satan. The womans seed being man. (Though some see it as being a prophecy of the messiah). And the serpents seed being the wicked.

It is about the Messiah. The "seed of the woman" is a contradiction. It's the first OT reference to the virgin birth. Everyone else born of a woman is a seed of a man.

I agree with you. This was the first prophesy in scripture and it has been fulfilled. Seems to me the OP came off as an authority at first but when confronted with questions from people who obviously knew the implications that came with the asking, has shrunk back to a position of "I am not an authority"
Scripture says that we are more than conquerors and 2 Timothy 3:16 states
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
My suggestion is for the OP is to grow a pair and state what he believes and stand behind it instead of compromising.

The OP made it quite clear that I was not a know it all. What I believe was not the point of the thread. Which has been explained more than once. The OP also made it clear that knowledgeable christians were being solicited as well. As I said, Pitch in.

But it seems you would rather talk about the OP than actually clear up any misconceptions people have about christianity.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

surly this means - unless they eat the other kind of magic fruit they wouldn't live for ever - so there was death before the fall