16 year old, who has questions about the Military, and needs help figuring out his future....

reply to post by mb2591

Personally I want to go rangers or special forces preferably special forces

You can say that is what you want and even enlist as say an Airborne Ranger but getting you scroll is an entirely different story. The groups are the elite for one reason they do not let everyone in. This is speaking from experience I was enlisted as the above example (although DQ later) When I signed I thought it was a ticket to becoming a Ranger...... it wasn't it guaranteed that I would make Airborne from their you must be invited in to Ranger School and finish historically only 50% complete it, last year only 43% finished. I would guess SF guys it is even more selective. Just remember they are going to put you where you match up best so score high on the ASVAB.

Also what specialization would you be trying for Infantrymen fit in every Ranger Unit. You have to also think that a Ranger Unit has all kinds of jobs. So first you pick an MoS and then request Ranger School and Unit now they have combined it so you no longer have to stationed before the request you can do it at the enlistment process. So to elaborate a bit this is how it would go BCT (9wks) to AIT (time varies depending on MoS) to get your MOS then to RIP 61days and if you are lucky you get your scroll.

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


Thank you but I know this.. I have done tons of research regarding this. I am confident though when I enlist in October I will make it to and complete ranger school and get my tab I know a batt spot isnt gauranteed and I'm fine with that.. Id prefer to go sf anyway. End game goal though is delta the best of the best. If I go delta I plan to stay for no more than 5 years and then review my options.. Possibly go invent # for DARPA or train new spec ops students.

Sorry not trying to derail your thread
Op I would suggest an mos that would not put you on the front line.
also surviving the cut is a good tv series it shows what the different special opporational forces of the military branches go through. Do not try to get all your info from here though.

reply to post by mb2591


Ok I was just trying to help a bit buddy... but I am still curious what MOS you are looking in too. DARPA I would think you would want to pursue an engineering MOS like 21T, 25P, or maybe 89B, not sure though. You have the right attitude to make it threw whatever physical training they throw your way. Hooah! and best of luck.

I also agree OP do not get all of you information here research on your own and find what fits you best.

even though i was/am a conscientious objector...

i volunteered for Army enlistment for 3 years (do not know if that short term still applies)

i 'knew' in my way.... that i would not go to a combat zone (they had an option for duty tour places back then)

i was assigned to a headquarters, and a G2 clerk position

i admit that my experience might not be available today... but you must search 'deep' within your soul
to even have an inkling that you might be restationed in some combat theater like central Asia


if you don't feel comfortable with 'signing up' for 4 to 6 years....then don't !!
because the Military jargon in any sign-up contract... can be broken by them...

such as::... my '3' year 'tour of duty' in my preferred Germany (the contracted Tour) was not under any obligation to be 36 months long [as i thought]
the ARmy notion of a full 'tour of duty' in the Germany station was only 12 months long by their standards...

if i served 12 months & 1 day in Germany--- then the Army obligation was satisified...
and they could send you any place they desired for the remainder of your service contract....
in my case it would have been in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive in 1968... but i was fortunate enough to be in a 'senstive' job placement in Military Intelligence over in Germany...


many other RAs (volunteerrs) ans USs (drafted persons) were selected by their last digit of their social seccurity number mine was '0'... the first wave of troops to be reassigned to Vietnam under the orders of A-H Johnson
the 'president'


digest this info... and see if they can renig on your 'contract' and put you into the teeth-of-the-beast


good luck with your decision

I wouldn't want into the Army or the Marines. They are the ones who fight in the front lines. They are the ones who have to go in first and they are the ones who end up coming home in body bags.

If you have a problem with people getting in your face and screaming obscenities at you, cursing out your Mother, embarrassing you and humiliating you then it's not for you and that is just boot camp.

If you are strong enough to be able to deal with that and not let it bother you then you will make it through. But, you have to make a choice of where you want to be. Do you want to be on the front lines fighting, or in the air, or on the ocean? I would say that your best place to be would be the Navy. You could go to school and learn a really cool trade, something that would make you fly way above anyone else as far as skill is concerned, especially if you go into submarine school. That is where you will learn some really awesome stuff, that is where the future is, sonar, you could even be a Navy Seal.

Anyway, the choice is yours just take your time before your choose and just because that time is coming to register it doesn't mean that you have to sign up for something right then. Register if you need to and then research where you want to go and what you want to be and do.

Goodluck in your journey

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by mb2591

 

Ok I was just trying to help a bit buddy... but I am still curious what MOS you are looking in too. DARPA I would think you would want to pursue an engineering MOS like 21T, 25P, or maybe 89B, not sure though. You have the right attitude to make it threw whatever physical training they throw your way. Hooah! and best of luck.

I also agree OP do not get all of you information here research on your own and find what fits you best.

Welp, I can say that I've run into a lot of spin-n-grin guys from all branches that went on to college and got engineering degrees and DO work for DARPA, SAIC and the like. So the SIGINT branch of your choice lets you get in and get (let's face it) NSA field experience while being a squid or whatnot.

The other thing you see a lot of are 18E's, or 18CE's, you can often get college credit here and there for some of the 18 stuff, and there are a big pile of echoes in the military/civilian tech ranks. Not so much bravos or foxtrots. Hint, hint.

I'm not sure I've seen any CAG guys in technical positions. A lot of them end up dead, but the live ones occasionally end up doing Agency or DIA stuff, if they don't go to work for security companies.

But any of these are going to require you to get a college degree or two or three after your stint before you end up at NRL or Kirtland or whatnot.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by mb2591

 

Ok I was just trying to help a bit buddy... but I am still curious what MOS you are looking in too. DARPA I would think you would want to pursue an engineering MOS like 21T, 25P, or maybe 89B, not sure though. You have the right attitude to make it threw whatever physical training they throw your way. Hooah! and best of luck.

I also agree OP do not get all of you information here research on your own and find what fits you best.

Welp, I can say that I've run into a lot of spin-n-grin guys from all branches that went on to college and got engineering degrees and DO work for DARPA, SAIC and the like. So the SIGINT branch of your choice lets you get in and get (let's face it) NSA field experience while being a squid or whatnot.

The other thing you see a lot of are 18E's, or 18CE's, you can often get college credit here and there for some of the 18 stuff, and there are a big pile of echoes in the military/civilian tech ranks. Not so much bravos or foxtrots. Hint, hint.

I'm not sure I've seen any CAG guys in technical positions. A lot of them end up dead, but the live ones occasionally end up doing Agency or DIA stuff, if they don't go to work for security companies.

But any of these are going to require you to get a college degree or two or three after your stint before you end up at NRL or Kirtland or whatnot.

Spin n grin? Cag?

I do plan on taking as many college classes as possible while I'm in, and I just enrolled in university of Phoenix to get some credits before going in.

reply to post by Bedlam


Didn't even think about the Comm guys that would probably be a good choice as well.


Good idea mb about getting in to college now I am at UoP as well.

Combat Apps. Group -CAG or Commander, Air Group for squids.
Spin-n-grin is just telling you one thing and giving you another.

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


Ah ok
Is combat engineer the same cag?

Btw just noticed your avatar CLASSIC haha

reply to post by mb2591


I would guess that combat engineers they could be but CAG is the term DoD uses for Delta Units and squid DEVGRU (seal six)

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican

Ahh ok yea cag and combat engineer.. Two different thing
How do you know all this if you don't mind me askin

reply to post by LandonFromKY


I hate to disappiont you but you wouldn't be serving your country. Those days are long over. You would be serving the agenda of the elite and you would be doing so against your country and against your people. You would be fighting bogus wars to aid in the manipulation of "They" that rule. This would only serve to hurt your country and every citizen. It's time to wake up my friend. You would merely be a pawn in their pond.

reply to post by mb2591


I was enlisted to go Airborne Ranger at one point before I got DQed(bad knees) and have always been interested in anything military related. lots and lots of reading man.

Originally posted by mb2591

Spin n grin? Cag?

I do plan on taking as many college classes as possible while I'm in, and I just enrolled in university of Phoenix to get some credits before going in.

Sorry. It's an acronym soup out there.

CAG is combat application group - it's 'Delta Force's other name. Way back in the times of olde when I was a lad, it sort of went by both names and I got used to CAG. You still hear it called CAG a lot, but more from the management side - it's CAG at the Pentagon but Delta at Bragg.

'spin and grin' is a mildly insulting but common term for a SIGINT guy's activities. So if you're in one of the SIGINT mos's, or better yet if you're in one of the units that is an NSA extension in drag, you will be 'spinnin' and grinnin', which is supposed to describe what you look like while turning the dials operating the equipment.

Just to say, too, if you're interested in the technical side of things, Delta might not be your best choice. They're more hostage rescue and counter-terrorism with a splat of diplomat guarding and the occasional bit of espionage-like activity. The CAG techies are support squadron instead of organic, which means you're like SOAR is to them, a sort of rent-a-guy instead of a dedicated team member.

SF Echoes are more tech oriented types than you tend to see in pretty much any of the other SOC groups, IMHO. The Tier 1 SF teams run out of the JCS get the juiciest direct action assignments and have the coolest technical crap, although that's a hard slog from where you're at at the moment. Not to mention, the general rule for team management in SF is that you don't unnecessarily expose the Deltas (medics) or Echoes, while the bravos and charlies are sort of the point. So you're less likely to get shot, slightly. However, if you like that sort of thing, you can double qualify as a charlie-echo hybrid. Once you have your echo in hand, you can pick up your charlie in half the normal time,; you get to skip a lot of the crap. At least that's how it used to be. Heck, in what, 1985? they sort of had a push to CE all the echoes with 3 or 4 years left in their commitment. Anyway, with a CE combo you can blow stuff up (or teach people to), set contact breaks in trail behind the team, even do some sniping if you're a good shot, as well as do tech stuff. It sort of depends on the team, some have tight assignments and some the captain likes to rotate the combo guys around a lot depending on the job. You do tend to have to climb a lot.

Charlies also do a lot of other engineering stuff, in addition to explosives work, so a CE is a solid engineering combo that gets you a lot of experience from civil engineering, to doing wiring (or breaking substations), wells and plumbing (or messing up dams), building shelter, running a bulldozer to put in a runway and whatnot. If it hasn't changed, the occasional charlie also (maybe) gets to learn lock picking and the like, depending on the whim of the Army, although to be truthful, CAG gets the lock school PLUS some of them get safe cracking too.

Then, there's the group, 10th SF (out of Stuttgart now) used to get more cool weird-arsed technical stuff than 5th, but I'm not sure it's always that way. For example...while I'm probably not supposed to talk about it, during GW1, 10th got some laser based voice projectors that were totally kickass in a bs sort of way. You had this rig with three lasers, at the intersection of which the air actually burned, you got this cloud of boiling white and red plasma with nitric oxide red smoke coming out of it, and you could get the ball of fire to talk by the rig modulating one of the lasers. It was supposed to fake the Muslims into thinking that Allah was telling them to lay down their rifles or some such thing, but Bush Sr decided it was too over the top to implement, so they sent them back. 10th also used to have nukes when they were at Bad Tolz, but all that's changed in the meantime. Anyway, it always seemed 10th got cooler stuff. YMMV.

Plus, the idea to get your tab is a good one, although you won't think so during the thing. Having that "V" in your SQI is gold for SF assignments to direct action teams, and while it isn't an absolute requirement, it always seemed to make a difference, because what you DON'T want is to end up B team or CA/PO as a permanent assignment. Maybe if you've got a busted arm, but not permanent.

Not to mention if you're really serious about going CAG, the last time I knew someone in CAG every single one of the guys either had a tab or was battalion to start with.

Anyways, "that's what I heard".

ETA: I see a lot of people posting about working for "big corporations" or what not. To be clear, most SOC teams get some assignments that are purely CIA driven. Army SF teams used to get missions that were dictated out of CIA's OMA division a lot. If you get to Tier 1, that all stops. The Tier 1 guys get mostly direct action, and you don't hear much about what, but the agency's not involved. Not that the OMA work is bad, it's just that the character of the work tends to be different. It's hard to explain. OTOH, OMA jobs are often more Echo/Foxtrot oriented, but boring, unless the foxtrot messes up and you have to unass the area.

Before you take the oath it's important to know one thing - recruiters lie.

My recruiter lied through his teeth about a number of things - how much sleep you get, what you wear, meals, where you end up being posted. The list goes on.....

The recruiter's objective is to collect warm bodies. He doesn't care HOW he does it.

Here's my advice: Don't go

Despite the honor in following your families footsteps, I don't think honor is worth your life. I'm in no position to tell you what to do with your life, but it's all fun and games until you get shot and you're bleeding to death thousands of miles away from your family. Plus, the justification for entering Iraq is exactly like the Vietnam War and the Gulf of Tonkin incident: they're both based on a lie. Bush claimed that they had WMDs, but he lied hardcore about that. Now, 10 years later, we're still there, and for what? Plus we invaded Afghanistan to find Osama, but the FBI didn't even have evidence that he was behind 9/11! They didn't even federally indict him for the 9/11 attacks, see for yourself.

What if you get blown up by an IED or shot by a sniper and die at 18, are you OK with that risk? If it happens to others, it can happen to you. Think about it.

Originally posted by 2012srb
Before you take the oath it's important to know one thing - recruiters lie.

My recruiter lied through his teeth about a number of things - how much sleep you get, what you wear, meals, where you end up being posted. The list goes on.....

The recruiter's objective is to collect warm bodies. He doesn't care HOW he does it.

Truer words were never spoken. The best thing to do, if you're serious, is to find some fairly current Rangers and SF and ask them what they think about it. Not details about missions, but just what they like and hate about it. I bet they'd be glad to tell you. You might find it's not your cup of tea while it's still time.

well you might consider my post here about the sex life in the US army
www.abovetopsecret.com...

you might want to run off and join the circus instead

Originally posted by NoClue206

Originally posted by mb2591
I've done a lot of looking in to this.. Dont join the marines.

I would suggest he does

Join the army there are plenty of mos's im sure you can find something you like doing

The USMC has almost all the same MOS's

Plus you get signing bonuses.
Army you advance the fastest.

Money should never be a reason to join. You EARN your rank in the Marines, It's not just given away like a prize. You have to prove you take take charge and lead. You are responsible for peoples lives, that's not something to take lightly.

Also the college fund for the army give you extra money for schooling there.

WOW what are they telling you? You do know every service gets the same GI Bill don't you? We all get the same TA when active duty.

edit on 29-6-2011 by NoClue206 because: quots

I am going to agree with this man, I was USAF from 83-90, and taught Marines from 86-90. In the marines, first and foremost you will be a rifleman. But besides that you will be trained and cross trained, there really is something special about the Marine Corps, wish I had realized that before joining the AF.