16 year old, who has questions about the Military, and needs help figuring out his future....

Originally posted by sam_inc
To the OP, bascially what people are encouraging you to do is NOT TO JOIN THE MILITARY!

I'd advise you to either go to college, try find a job, sale something that is legal, go to trade to school or start your own business. if you really want to make money fast, become a nanny! There's a lot ways you make money especially if you have multiple skills.

edit on 30-6-2011 by sam_inc because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-6-2011 by sam_inc because: (no reason given)

Well it's not that I would tell you NOT to join. If you do join be smart about it and remember that you are nothing but a quota number to a military recruiter. They are no better than a used car salesman, so don't let him/her talk you into anything that you are unsure about. Do your homework and know why you are joining and what you want to do while you are in.

reply to post by LandonFromKY


I wouldnt recommend joining the military nowadays...games like call of duty etc they are nothing whatsoever like war is. War is nasty and very depressing if its either watching your fellow man get his face blown off or murdering innocent people. The government lied about 9/11, lied about iraq and osama so why would you want to trust your life in their hands?

reply to post by LandonFromKY


go watch the 'Tillman Story' 2010 and get a true perspective on what the militarys about. Whatever contract or promises your recruiter tells you is worth exactly the value of the piece of paper it was printed on.
As far as the Army goes whatever 'Mos' your choice is. The simple fact is - if you fail to qualify either through physical injury or flunk your advanced training etc. you can be placed into any 'Mos' Uncle Sam needs you for.

Hint: Infantry & forget those signing bonuses. Those add time to your enlistment usally a year or more. Same for those reserved spots in special schools like Rangers will add some additional time to your enlistment. Why would you go straight to Ranger school off the street when the Armys regular Ranger Battalions first send their own soldiers through their own training & prep then send them to Ranger school with much better chance of graduating.

reply to post by Pervius


that's not entirely true. I joined with a friend of mine and our first tour he got hit by an IED (three 155 shells) and he now collect 5K a month for the rest of his life.

I was in the Marines and it was a good experience for me. Saw countries all around the Mediterranean that I wouldn't have been able to visit otherwise. Got me into shape, got me some college money and met new people.

Actually, damn, now that I think about it, if I had stayed in I would be near retirement by now. How time flies.

Anyways, do your own research into it. Don't listen to the haters, 95% of which haven't served and don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Originally posted by SassyCat
After reading this whole thread I have collected top reasons to join the military:

Oddly enough, other than a few places where your mental indoctrination by left-wing hype shines through, this isn't bad.

Cause grampa did it: definitely some percentage here, it's sort of O'Bedlam tradition, Dad, however, was a real bear on discouraging it. Nonetheless, four of five of us siblings served. One Navy, three Army, one "you gotta be kidding", although he's an EMT

College (from which 95% will drop out though): I actually had a full scholarship to Tech, which I declined. PS - I got a masters in EE and a bachelors in physics coming out of the service. Eat me.

To gain important life experiences and survival knowledge - probably the #1 reason I had - I didn't think I was ready for college. OTOH, I guess I was ready to march in straight lines and spend six weeks without a bath on FTX. Go figure.

To see the world - Definitely on my list then

For feeling of self-worth and need to prove oneself - that too, only it was more a competition between brothers

What you probably get in reality, if you're a normal person:

Burden of killing somene, probably children: the baby killing thing generally only happens in bad movies. I have to say, the first time keeps you awake for a few nights.

Recurring dreams with dead people: oddly enough, I did end up with that for a while, only it was people I had known as a kid

Parents disappointed because you couldn't cope with College: more like they wanted me to get a job and quit being a student

Everyone disappointed because you can't cope with anything: most people wish I wasn't quite so "take charge", my coping skills are a bit prominent, and the "lead, follow or get the hell out of the way" thing is an issue rather than sitting in the corner drooling

Permanent physcal damage, various handicaps: a couple of whopping bad PLFs did leave me with a few aches when it rains

What you probably get if you're a psycho:

Money: so, you do your job for free, right? Seriously? You'd do it for nothing? The pay was so-so, if you added in all the bonuses but it got way better after I was in school and getting contract jobs in the summers to do sort of the same thing. In a weird way, you can occasionally get just about 5x the same pay and not have to be shot at doing the same sort of work.

Pleasure of killing somene, probably children, apathy at best: that depends on the situation. Imagine: you are on a rooftop with Rush Limbaugh. He is gnawing on the throat of a poor, disadvantaged Hispanic child, while destroying a rare endangered species with a blowtorch. You won't get in trouble either way. You can a) push him off the building and laugh while you do it or b) play "one tin soldier" on a fife and meditate on the nature of evil while reading Howard Zinn.

ETA: for the record, it is considered poor form to throw people, even Zombie Rush Limbaugh, off of buildings. It is against LOAC. You can shoot them or cut them, you can blow them up in some situations, but you cannot chuck them down a stairwell or off a building without at least NJP.

Originally posted by LandonFromKY
Well anyways, i have been thinking about this for years, and years. My grandfather, my great grandfather, and my great great grandfather all were in the military and where in a war. My grandfather was in the korean war, earned the MOH, and Purple Heart, among others. So as the time for me to enlist creeps closer and closer, i was wondering if it would be worth it to Join the Military. Most likely the Army, or the Marines. I have always wanted to go in the Military and every time i play Call of Duty, or watch Jarhead, or a War movie it makes me want to go over there even more. I know it is no ones decision but mine, but i want to get some first hand experiences from guys, or girls who have served. I wanna know what it would be like and stuff. I know it would be nice to join and have my College paid for, not only that but the respect i would get from others, and the satisfaction of serving my country, and keeping my country and family free..

So if you have been in the Military or are currently enlisted, please post on here with your experiences, and whatever else you would like to add!

Thanks!

I was in the Marines right out of high school.. I tell my kids every day, go to school first, and then if you still feel the desire to join, go into the Air Force.

You get better pay, training, living conditions, and assignments.... period.

Unless you have some desire to be the "best"... there are intangible benefits to being a Marine - but it's mostly ego related.

Hmmm .. I have serious questions that might influence the outcome of my entire life .. hmmm .. who could I ask .. hmm .. I know .. let's ask the folks at ATS !!

On topic: Get a solid degree and a real job where you don't have to kill people for a living. It really is that simple.

reply to post by LandonFromKY


Thye used to have a college fund for enlisted, but not sure if it still exists. The ROTC route has a couple of options
1. You have really solid grades, were an eagle scout and have family with connections there is the Acadamies.
2. You have the above, but not the connections you can petition you congressman or senator for a spot at the academey
3. Same as above but it is an application process throught he college and/ military
4. Go to a college with a standing ROTC program - pay your way and hopefully get the scholarship later
5. Same as above - no scholarship but then join under an Officer program
6. Last option, college, join, apply to OCS as an enlisted

That is about how it goes. Good Luck

I spent 19 years in the Army and only got out because of a medical problem not related to my service.

Did I always agree with the mission? Of course not.

Would I do it again if able? Of course, without even thinking.

It's not about sticking it to the TPTB, it's not about defending the country, it's about you and what it does for you.

I'm a serb by lineage and was able to avoid a tour in Kosovo as a result, but don't count on that being the case (kind of rare I'm told). For the most part you will go where they tell you, especially if you are enlisted.

But the experiences you can have are amazing. I've seen most of the world, dipped my toes in almost every major ocean and sea, and I've eaten just about every cuisine on the planet, even Eskimo (didn't say I liked it all). I've slept in a tent 300 miles above the arctic circle, in winter, and slept in a tent in the arabian desert. But most of the time I slept in my all terrain camper (Hummer ambulance).

The job you pick is important because while switching your MOS is allowed it's not always possible. I started out as an armorer but switched to combat medic after 3 years. As a medic you get lots of perks. No range can put up the live fire flag unless a medic is there, so you get to shoot just about everything in the inventory. And the military ambulances are air conditioned and have really good heaters that will run without the engine on. You carry a sidearm instead of a rifle most of the time, but that's because the aidbag you need to carry is heavy. Sounds like a minor thing, but try doing everything with an M-16 slung across your back, it's a pain. And as they say, if the time comes that you need one, there'll be plenty laying on the ground.

Like anything in life it's what you make of it. I looked at it as a job, which is what it is. If you're looking for the hero aspect forget it, but if you want to meet lots of different people and see the world go for it.

When I was in the military I saw mainly two different guys and the occasional green-card candidate.

Guy #1 was a rural white kid
Guy #2 was an inner-city minority

What does a guy from Nicaragua, Oklahoma, and the South Bronx have in common?

Lack of economic opportunity

So by all means, if you want to have the experience of working tangentially for the success of a quasi-democratic empire with an arbitrary justice system while at the same time belonging to a special class of people in which there is not even the hint of constitutional protection, then join up.

In other words, you're going to experience being treated like absolute dog meat, exposed to all sorts of dangerous situations, purposely exposed to many hazardous chemicals that will shorten your life, purposely given substandard tools to accomplish work, purposely given toxic injections, toxic food, toxic water, and toxic air to breathe. You're going to get ringworm from the dirty conditions. You're going to get plantar warts on your feet, warts on your hands, and at least one STD from your clothes or bedding.

On top of that you're going to experience the joy of laundering another man's clothes, making his bed, and cleaning his living quarters to a white-glove polish while you get to go back and lay in a 2" foam mattress with piss stains and lice all over it. To make this situation more enjoyable, this same man will address you diminuitively, as "boy" or "kid" or "slave." At night you will get to watch him be picked up by a personal driver and drive off while you get to stand at attention from midnight until four a.m. guarding a port-a-potty with an rifle for which you have no bullets and a flashlight.

When you make plans to go home to be with your dying relative, you will be denied this humane service so that you can again stay up all night standing guard over a traffic cone.

When you decide that you've made a terrible mistake in joining this outfit and confide in your friend that you would like to escape, or resist, or even write a letter home, or eat a peanut butter sandwich, or even breathe air and sleep or defecate or any other bodily function, you will be brought up on charges under article 92 or 134 of the UCMJ (for which there is no defense), you will be court-martialed and subsequently get to live out the rest of your life with a felony conviction that will prevent you from getting a job, voting, owning firearms and other niceties.

In other words. Joining the military is the single biggest mistake of your young life. You will be better off if you impregnate a prostitute paying her way through the final year of family-court law and then send a notarized letter to her claiming you want to physically beat her.

reply to post by LandonFromKY


Well, for what it's worth from someone who did not serve, but who also comes from a long line of army and marines, here goes. (I ask that the OP and anyone else who considers responding, do so after reading the whole post, not cherrypicking things that suit their emotional state).

Don't join. Why? Because it's not about serving your country or keeping your family free. Nowadays, with the way big business and moneyed interests (what you may hear called "lobbyists" on the news) are at the helm of the nation, it is best to stay clear of their wars of profit. You are not keeping your family free because your family resides here in the homeland of the empire.

History has shown us time and time again that when an empire becomes oppressive abroad, the gun barrel gets directed back towards the heart of the homeland.

The military is not treated well. You sacrifice your life so that big business can profit from newly "liberated" resources, such as oil. If you think about it, in this case you are nothing more than a hired thug, out to shake down the local small folks, killing a few in the process, so that the mafia dons can get control.

Also, you are not treated well because you will may not be getting any GI bill for tuition, as can be read here:
abcnews.go.com......I suggest you start looking more into that first, don't just take my word for it.

Let's not forget that privatization (when the government gives a contract to a private company to do something the government would have otherwise done) has meant that for-profit companies made up of mercenaries have been getting paid very healthy salaries, whereas you and the other infantry will be walking home with a salary that is just slightly above the poverty line (excepting the benefits, of course! Or what remains of them...). You also have to consider that when you are in one of these nations, fighting to "protect our freedom", you will be escorting and protecting workers for multinational corporations, who will be making upwards of $100,000 to drive an oil truck.

So, if you really want to get first hand understanding of war, I suggest reading Major General Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket" or watching President Eisenhower's farewell address about the military-industrial complex.




Another thing to really wrap your mind around:

Every time you watch a cable news channel - and I don't care if it's FOX or MSNBC or CNN - and you see a Lockheed Martin, GE, Boeing, BP, or Exxon Mobile commercial, I want you to ask yourself a question. When was the last time you bought a product from one of these companies?

**No, I'm not talking about a lightbulb (cause there is no mention of that in the GE commercials I'm talking about) and I don't mean filling up on your way to school (because those oil company commercials are never about that, you go to the station that has the best price and is sometimes independently owned).

I'm talking about the commercials where BP or Exxon toot their own horn about new oil technologies or how Boeing shows people working in a state of the art facility with flashy screens and jet airplanes.

Ok, step two. Ask yourself how much you think it costs to run a 30 second add on Fox or MSNBC 10 times a day? So now, if none of us are buying a GE jet engine or a Boeing missile defense shield, what exactly justifies those companies to spend so many millions on television advertising? Where is that money going and for what reason? Now, ask yourself the last time you heard any bad press on GE, Boeing, Lockheed Martin or Exxon Mobile in the news...when? I can guarantee that if you do a little bit of digging online, you can find all sorts of news stories from sources inside and outside of this nation that discuss some very bad things that all of these companies are doing, but why no mention on the cable news channels? Why do you think? I should also mention that all of the above mentioned companies have a major stake in the US being at war in the Middle East.





It's called propaganda (which is the same as advertising, if you think about it).

Remember Hitler's pal, Joseph Goebbels...who said:

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”

Compare that with President G.W. Bush's comment:


Now ask yourself why FOX news or MSNBC need to have their "very interesting" discussions between two or three men in little boxes who come from God knows what company or political lobbying firm, but who have titles like "expert" or "contributor" when they are really "PR man" or "Lobbyist" who utter 3 to 10 word sentences also known as "soundbytes". Remember what a real conversation sounds like? You know, where a person gets to explain a complex issue in more than 30 seconds? The news looks like a commercial, and commercials look like entertainment, and entertainment is supposed to be informative. And the News uses songs and movie clips.

It's all a massive mindf*&k so that someone like you will buy into it, hook line and sinker. You'll say to yourself, that movie makes it look so awesome. That video game makes it look exciting. Those people in that GE commercial have exciting lives and I want that life, too. But it's no different than seeing someone having fun at the beach while drinking corona and thinking that you will also have fun at the beach if you drink a corona. It's an illusion. You can have fun at the beach without the Corona. You can "enjoy life" without the Coke. You can have a great, awesome, exciting life without being a wage-slave thug with a gun for an oil company or multinational weapons manufacturer.

And, by far, the worst thing you can do is form your opinion based on video games and hollywood movies. Trust me. Call of Duty was developed by my cousin and his team of video game designers. Although I am proud of my cousin's success in the video game industry (having done other games such as Spiderman series), he did not serve in our Armed forces. Why should this matter? Because you are going to create your opinions of joining the military and going to war based on a video game created by tech guys in building in Santa Monica, CA.

Meanwhile, another cousin of mine was in Iraq for less than six months back in 2003/2004 when shrapnel blinded him in both eyes (with just 10% remai "ning in one eye to see shadows). He really had to struggle to get help from the VA for adjusting to a blind lifestyle, all the while raising four kids in a very poor part of rural NY.

Also, try to read between the lines when you watch military movies. They are a person, or group of people's individual take on war, and sometimes, despite the special effects that make it look "cool", you have to remember that there is sometimes a message there about what is wrong with this picture.

Another Goebbels quote:

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

It's all a lie. Everything you see, from the 30 second commercials by war contractors and profiteers who pay the news companies not to report bad things about the war or the companies themselves, to the movies and videogames that portray life in the military as such an awesome, fun time, with no real dire consequences.

So, take your time to come to your decision.

Now, as I close my comments, I have to add that there will most likely be a response to this message along the lines of "They fight for your freedom to say what you are saying so have some respect" ...or something to that effect. I've heard it before. My only response can be that, even under this very concept, you have to see the irony in shouting down and attacking my view point on those grounds. It's a dangerous thing to tell someone that there are somethings too sacred to be criticized, one being military action, because free speech is such a precious gem. It's a vicious circle.

Lastly, I don't hate soldiers. I feel bad when they are misguided by propaganda - even in the form of videogames and movies - but especially the worst kind of propaganda, the myth that surrounds serving your country, as though blind patriotism is a good thing, something to be encouraged. Blind patriotism is the greatest form of deception that we ever allowed ourselves to fall under.

I really hope the OP genuinely reads what I've written, though I fear he will not, because, worse than my generation, the current teenagers have an incredibly shorter attention span from overstimulation. What I've written is much too much to take in on a Thursday afternoon for someone used to today's standards - maybe the links help make it flashier...

reply to post by LandonFromKY


I was in the Army for 4 years and I am Infantry MOSQ
Why is the sky blue? Because God loves the Infantry HOOAH

Honestly it's your choice, I have no regrets about my service, I will tell you, you don't get as much respect for serving these days as you would in the past, mainly because a lot of US citizens don't agree with our wars, but then again they have never seen the world in which these people live in. Believe me, you are doing the right thing over there, those people live in constant fear.

While there are a lot of MOS (your job classification) I will tell you the fastest MOS to get rank in is the Infantry and NBC (this is for the army). If you find that the MOS you choose is not for you, you can always reclass once you make E-5 (sergeant), which means you can go back to AIT (job school) and get a different job without losing rank.

The pay is great, the benefits are even better, and the people are PHUCKING AWESOME, seriously best employees ever. Once you join the military though, civilians will pi$$ you off royally.

Good luck, whichever branch you choose I'm sure your family will be proud, if you need any advice or help send me a U2U message.

reply to post by LandonFromKY


Talk to trusted members of your family and close friends. Do not get advice on the Internet. The people here may be friendly but they are not your friends and you cannot trust advice from ideological strangers on the Internet for important decisions. It is very unwise to do so.

war is a medium to take away other people's stuff.
Instead of being a killing machine, become a problem solver.

reply to post by Jrocbaby


Look at reserve componet; they have some pretty good educational opportunities; my understanding is that they are pretty much all spport now. I know that the army reserves did away with infanty units, though national guard still has them. Believe it or not the guard also has SF units (not sure if the reserves still has them).

I wasn't in the militray so please excuse my input but.....Don't do it brah. Your ass is theirs once you sign those papers and there's no telling what that might lead to.

reply to post by LandonFromKY


in reply to the OP;-
join any of the services, go overseas, meet interesting people, KILL them!
you will be serving the elite masters of the world that are totally without morals, that have orchestrated many illegal wars and cost your countrys people 4 trillion dollars and have brought your country to its knees. they cant even pay old age pensions from august unless they borrow more money. WW3 is about to break out, better you study survival and where you're going to survive. read up on it all. (whilst you're still alive)

reply to post by livefreeordieinnh


It is what you make of it. I will say that under no circumstances would I consider serving in a position that was not either special operations or at least airborne. I have made that mistake before, and I saw many of the situations you have described. However, I have found that the more elite the unit, the less of the undesireable elements you find there. Why? Because the people that have made it through the training actually want to be there. Even jump school acts as a filter for a large segment of people. Are there good people in service that didn't go to jump school? Of course; but I never want to be led by anyone again that has come straight from the officers version of AIT.


And you are right, lack of economic opportunity is a strong reason for many people. It was the reason I came in, and I'm pleased with the result. I've finished several degrees and am currently completeing my Masters. While my friends back home all work without health insurance or benefits and have very little to look forward too. That's pretty pathetic for men in their forties. The friends that I have that have done well, and did not join the military,came from families that were well off enough to help them through college.

The military is a great choice for the poor to springboard into a better life because you will have opportunity. Is it worth taking the chance of dying? I think so, but that is an individual decision. My five children will all have the opportunity to complete college, go to good schools and participate in activities that my parents could not afford.

Never had any problems with emergencey leave, nor do I personally know anyone that has. However that is a commander's decision. Once again that is why I don't want to serve anywhere except elite units. Those slots are very competitive for officers and usually filled by the best (though not always).

And no one can simply give you an article 15. You must choose to accept punishment under article 15. If it's BS demand the court matial and watch them drop the charges. But again it comes down to the quality of the leadership. Good leadership won't threaten over BS and will often allow the NCOs to handle problems when they could opt for UCMJ action.

The biggest complaint I have is the medical care. It is a crap shoot. For example, I have two synthetic disks in my neck. First time I went on sick call I was told that it was a bruised nerve root come back in two weeks if it doesn't get better. In two weks another doctor sent me in for an MRI. I had two ruptured disks, they scheduled me for surgery. I had ran around in Afghanistan up and down mountains for over a year eating motrin and tylenol like candy. Couldn't get back to a large FOB for treatment because I was an advisor on the border.

Two months after surgery, my legs are still heavy and going numb. They do two MRIs tell me no smoking guns. I deploy to Iraq for a year. Come back decide to medically retire. Get a copy of my medical records the previous MRIs show seven bulging disks. Nerve conduction study shows permanet damage to body on right side.

I apply for social security disability; get awarded it (much to my surprise). Go see a physical therapist get told by a major that all I need to do are back exercises and I'll be fine, and lets start weaning you off those pain killers (I'm on a minimum dose and its not even an opiod). Now you would think that the SSD nwould speed up the MED Board process. Nope, no one really cares that another branch of the federal government has decided that I'm completely disabled. Army still has to have me jump through the hoops. However, my chain of command has been very supportive, and I have not been harrased at all.

Has anyone forgotten the term military coup? Hey OP, become a four star general, gather your other general buddies, and take our country back.. But what am I talking about? I've seen four star generals get crapped on in the media. can only hope...