100% conclusive evidence that a plane did hit the pentagon.

I'm going to make it clear before posting that I neither subscribe to the missile or plane theories.

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
1. If it wasn’t an airplane then what was it?

Better not ask question like this, you might get pissy about it and start telling everyone that they are "100% confirmed wrong" based on zero facts

2. If it wasn’t an airplane where are all the passengers?

? Whos side are you on, now? Your arguments are all over the place -- crazy.

3. If it was missiles how could one missile knock down streetlights and stay on course?

Missiles go to set coordinates automatically... planes do not.... are you serious?

4. Why do you not believe your government?

Probably has something to do with them lying through their teeth to pad their wallets for oh, say, 120 years.

5. What does ‘OS’ MEAN?

Operating System?

6. DO you honestly and really think our beloved government would kill all those people, and if yes…why?

Perhaps you didn't notice that they used the fear of Islam developed by the events of 9/11 to wage corporate wars?

7. What happened to the passengers if the twin towers and the pentagon was all cgi or some holographic big time Steven Spielberg Illusion?

Nobody denies that planes hit the tower... But that the heat was not enough to melt the steel columns and bring it down, it's actually physically impossible. Let's not even mention that, at those heats, the people on the above floors would've literally been cooked alive... yet we have stories of people from the top floors jumping over flaming staircases and making it out alive.

8. What knocked the streetlights down?

Do you actually think that streetlights are difficult to destroy or costly to replace?

9. Hundreds of eyewitnesses say it was an airplane…not a missile or anything looking or pertaining to a missile.

It's amazing how hundreds of eye witnesses had different stories until the next day...

10. Do you really think that the president or any other form of US government would have the galls to play with the pentagon and its families like that?

The people who are currently blowing up more of the Middle East than they are leaving alone?

11. What’s to gain if the government was involved?

In general? A lot, for the government, and nothing for us. Nothing new there.

To me, the only conspiracy I see in all of the 911 events that happened was,‘ building 7’ and the last air plane that was shot down by our government, other then those 2,the rest are 100% conclusive that it did happen…PERIOD!

"100% conclusive, period!"

I can't even take you seriously for a split second. Such a know-it-all, pre-conclusive goof. Unbelievable. Evidently some people have serious growing up to do.

Originally posted by TupacShakur

 

I'm not dismissing eyewitness accounts either, and I am in no way saying that nothing struck the Pentagon and it was just a bomb planted inside or something like that. Many eyewitnesses saw a plane strike the Pentagon, that's pretty cut and dry, but a plane traveling at a high velocity would only be visible for a few brief seconds, and considering that people in the area are used to seeing planes flying low all day everyday, I'm sure not too many of them took the time to thoroughly inspect the plane and see what model it was. There's the possibility that the plane was actually a drone painted to look like a 757 airplane, and since it happened so fast people see something that looks like a commercial airliner, and assume it's a commercial airliner. However with the credible aviation experts who saw the plane making its descent, I would think that they could tell a 757 apart from a drone painted to look like one, but since it happened so fast checking the model of airplane may have slipped their mind. If an aircraft was about to smash into the Pentagon, the first thing I would think definitely wouldn't be "I wonder what type of aircraft that is, maybe a 747? No the wingspan resembles more of a 757 model...".

You're waffling. *IF* there had been a camera aimed at the exact blank wall where the plane hit the Pentagon and *IF* the camera was lucky enough to capture it one of the one-frame-per-second videos that all security cameras record things in and *IF* it wasn't just some blurry very fast moving object way off in the background and *IF* said object was some non-passenger aircraft craft mocked up to look like a passenger aircraft and *IF* the non-passenger aircraft passed for a passenger aircraft sufficiently to fool all the eyewitnesses who saw the thing clear as day, then all you're going to see on the video is some passenger looking aircraft thing with passenger aircraft markings. It won't have any clear details to determine what the object is except for that it looks like a passenger jet and has passenger jet markings...which YOU are imagining would be faked. You're insisting you're only going to be convinced by something you've already announced is going to be fake.

And calling the pilot's successful flight path anything short of miraculous would be a huge understatement. This noob only had one or two flying lessons in a single engine airplane, how could that adequately prepare him to precisely conrol a 757 airplane? Even flying in a straight line without plummeting to the Earth is astounding for somebody with absolutely no jet engine flight experience. Add to that a circle, which isn't even remotely close to as simple as a U-turn in a car, and then maintaining leveled while only several feet off of the ground, and you either have the clutchest terrorist in the world, or a lie.

First off, you are wrong. Hani Hanjour received an FAA commercial pilot's license in 1999, so whatever quirks he might have had when he first started his training were eliminated by the time he got his license. Second, the reason they were considered bad pilots isn't necessarily because of their flying skills. They were considered bad pilots becuase to be a good pilot you need to master skills the hijackers didn't care about- how to take off, how to land, how to communicate with control towers, how to use radar, how to navigate the plane, all of that. The only thing they needed to know to pull off the attack was how to use was the automatic pilot and how to steer the plane.

I'm not a pilot so I don't know, but I would think the main difference between piloting a large craft and a small one is that you need to account for greater lead time in the responsiveness of a large framed craft, which Hanjour certainly would already have been trained to do as he had an FAA commercial pilot license. "Exotic 360 degree maneuvers", "threading the needle" "defying the laws of aerodynamics" and all that is nothing but false embellishment on the conspiracy mongor's part. It can't be too exotic if Hanjour was able to do it.

Also one last question, do you think it's just a huge coincidence that the plane happened to smash into the exact portion of the building which was undergoing renovations? The Pentagon is a huge building, I find the odds of that happenning by chance nearly unbelievable.

What the heck difference does that make? 184 people were still killed in the attack.

reply to post by ipsedixit
You're right about the vultures still being here, but lately I've come to regard them as comical. They have only one speed, obviously not well educated, and certainly protected by the mods here. But, that's ok because their schtick is worn out. Reminds me of the one that says, 'It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to talk, and remove all doubt.'

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by TupacShakur

 

You're waffling. *IF* there had been a camera aimed at the exact blank wall where the plane hit the Pentagon and *IF* the camera was lucky enough to capture it one of the one-frame-per-second videos that all security cameras record things in

You may want to double check your facts on surveillance cameras... Most high end systems can be set to record at different fps. As a matter of fact, the system I am currently using can be set up to 30 fps. Please do not post about things you know nothing about. BTW, the system I'm using isn't high end. Pretty sure the Pentagon camera system can be set at a higher speed. Just my opinion.

edit on 22-6-2011 by czlong07 because: checked my system capabilities

Originally posted by czlong07

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by TupacShakur

 

You're waffling. *IF* there had been a camera aimed at the exact blank wall where the plane hit the Pentagon and *IF* the camera was lucky enough to capture it one of the one-frame-per-second videos that all security cameras record things in

You may want to double check your facts on surveillance cameras... Most high end systems can be set to record at different fps. As a matter of fact, the system I am currently using can be set up to 30 fps. Please do not post about things you know nothing about. BTW, the system I'm using isn't high end. Pretty sure the Pentagon camera system can be set at a higher speed. Just my opinion.

edit on 22-6-2011 by czlong07 because: checked my system capabilities

Yeah, I'm fully certified on the NICE camera systems, and I can attest to the fact that yes, indeed, cameras CAN be set to 30fps. Most people don't set them that high, due to RAID storage space. More frames equals more disk space taken.

Typical setup is trying to capture a perp walking or running by, or a car.

Not a plane going 500 MPH.

That's how most systems are set up, and yes I've set up the systems in use at several government buildings in a previous life, and they are set at 1 FPS. Reason was, they want 30 days of continued storage for just under 500 cameras. 30 FPS would have SKY ROCKETED the price, and government entities usually pick the cheapest system they can get by with.

Wow the grass is so green in that video, I bet it is not a real video. I bet it is a computer simulation. Duh.

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

You're right about the vultures still being here, but lately I've come to regard them as comical. They have only one speed, obviously not well educated, and certainly protected by the mods here. But, that's ok because their schtick is worn out. Reminds me of the one that says, 'It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to talk, and remove all doubt.'

Thanks for reminding me that some people have no concept of irony - now *that's* comical!

reply to post by GoodOlDave


There were without a doubt more than one cameras which could have caught a glimpse of the incoming plane. Pentagon Cameras

The only thing they needed to know to pull off the attack was how to use was the automatic pilot and how to steer the plane.

I'm not a pilot so I don't know,

You surely are a walking contradiction. I trust an experienced Navy pilot more than your opinion.

Commander Kolstad is especially critical of the account of American Airlines Flight 77 that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon. He says, "At the Pentagon, the pilot of the Boeing 757 did quite a feat of flying. I have 6,000 hours of flight time in Boeing 757's and 767's and I could not have flown it the way the flight path was described."

So this expert pilot with 6,000 hours could not have pulled of that manuever, but some dude with a pilots licence can? There is absolutely no way that is possible! And Commander Kolstad is not the only skeptical pilot who is speaking out, in fact there are over 250 pilots who have voiced their opinions. On top of that there are 1400+ engineers and architects, 400+ professors, and 220+ senior military, intelligence service, law enforcement, and government officials who believe the official story is a lie.

What the heck difference does that make? 184 people were still killed in the attack.

The difference is that the pilot crashed into the portion of the Pentagon that was undergoing renovations at the time. According to the official flight path, he even turned around in the air, ensuring that he hit the spot of his choice, which out of the entire Pentagon perimeter, happened to be the one area undergoing renovations. That make's a huge difference, it's a pretty clear giveaway that members of our government were involved, and took preventative measures before the attack to plan where the plane would hit. Either that, or it's just a 1 in 20,000 shot that the pilot hit that portion of the pentagon, within the time frame that it was undergoing renovations.

Hanjour's licence was for a single-engined aircraft, so it is highly unlikely that he ever flew anything other than training aircraft. He was refused the rental of a Cessna, because his flying was so bad, commercial licence or not.
That just does not gel with whomever flew into the Pentagon. The fact that he got past so many checks and balances from supposedly learning to fly until he supposedly boarded the Pentagon plane, supposedly without a seat number, supposedly without a ticket, beggars belief, and all the while supposedly under surveillance.

It's like a fairy-tale, and it seems that the Security services didn't seem to mind their own supposed 'gross incompetence' one bit, unless of course, they had a bigger fish to fry, whatever that could have been.

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527





8. Does it really matter which way it came ‘north or south‘, an airplane is an airplane?'

I have actually read the whole 18 pages of this interesting thread and im lost for words on this point.

Please tell me thats a joke yeah?

Originally posted by granpabobby
reply to post by Immortalgemini527

 

People should accept the truth.The airplane was simply LANDED into the building..with its gear up..There was no missile ..just an airplane

That’s it and that’s all, the delusional fact that something else hit the pentagon is functionally sad to the brain, I just cant understand why in the world people believe our beloved government did this or had even 1% knowledge of what happened. It is sad.

Loose Change is a good refresher to watch from time to time.

At 14:00 they address remnants of the alleged plane, the single engine, the diffuser case and the wheel hub.

At 18:50 they present the two different eye witness accounts, one of flight 77 and another of a small commuter plane or a missile...

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527

That’s it and that’s all, the delusional fact that something else hit the pentagon is functionally sad to the brain[really?], I just cant understand why in the world people believe our beloved

reply to post by Immortalgemini527

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
reply to post by Immortalgemini527

 

...I just cant understand why in the world people believe our beloved government did this...

"Our beloved government"...

First off, LOL.

Secondly, which branch do you work for?

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
4 words:

SHOW THE F**KING VIDEOS!!

Any number of computer animations will not suffice, until I see the 80+ actual videos of the event from around the pentagon. Why will they not show these videos? If I remember right,They wont show the other videos because it was for security reasons . That is a load of horse pucky! With sooooo much contrivercy surounding this, what national security risk can the have, that is more important than the truth?

An actual plane may have hit the Pentagon (I dunno), but that does not negate the rest of the highly questionable events of that fateful day.

~much love~

edit on 21-6-2011 by Talltexxxan because: (no reason given)

You do not have to see the 80 videos to understand that in reality a plane hit, a plane hit and it is really no argument to want to see 80 videos when your government has told you the complete and honest truth.

Originally posted by czlong07

You may want to double check your facts on surveillance cameras... Most high end systems can be set to record at different fps. As a matter of fact, the system I am currently using can be set up to 30 fps. Please do not post about things you know nothing about. BTW, the system I'm using isn't high end. Pretty sure the Pentagon camera system can be set at a higher speed. Just my opinion.

I must tell you that I am immune to your "I know more than you do" antics. I work in the computer department for our company and maintain our own security surveilance systems. We migrated from the older tape systems using a dedicated monitor to disk storage accessible via web browser so I'm familiar with how both works. Yes, you can set the frame rate to anything you want, but the higher the frame rate the more storage is needed to keep it. This was back in 2001 so most security systems were still using tapes, and with a 30 fps a 12 hour security tape would become a 4 hour security tape.

This is neither here nor there because I know full well the Pentagon security systems recorded one frame per second. How do I know? The video they released that everyone is arguing about was recorded in one frame per second. Even then it's neither here nor there because hordes of eyewitnesses specifically saw that it was a passenger jet that hit the Pentagon so bickering over FPS for security tapes is nothing but a desperate conspiracy mongor red herring to begin with.

reply to post by Immortalgemini527

That’s it and that’s all, the delusional fact that something else hit the pentagon is functionally sad to the brain, I just cant understand why in the world people believe our beloved government did this or had even 1% knowledge of what happened. It is sad.

I cannot believe that you actually think that way! The tone of your posts radiate sarcasm, as if you are mocking somebody who has full faith in the government, but you're actually serious!

Our "beloved government" ( ) has perpretrated many false flag attacks in the past. Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin? We claimed that a vietnamese gunboat attacked one of our destroyers, and took that as an act of war which led us into Vietnam. However de-classified documents show that's a complete lie, so 58,000 American citizens as well as 1.5 million Vietnamese died because our government lied to get us in there.

Have you ever heard of Operation Northwoods? I'll answer that question myself, no you have not. Our "beloved government" planned to commit terrorist attacks in US cities, and blame them on Cuba to gain support for a war. This is not a wild conspiracy theory, this is a fact, backed up by de-classified government documents.

Al Queda, the big bad goons who our "beloved government" (I still cannot get over that statement) claims are responsible for 9/11, was trained by the CIA.

Still clinging to your beloved government? Well the CIA has admitted that it hired Iranians to pose as Communists and stage bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against it's democratically elected prime minister.

Our government is as corrupt as it gets, don't forget about the drug trafficking that the CIA was involved in too.

You are defending a government which openly commits terrorist attacks against its own citizens, and uses those actions to justify invading other countries and fighting wars. 9/11 is no different, what better to rally the American people against the Middle East than a terrorist attack on our own soil? That sounds A LOT like Operation Northwoods.

If you want to talk "delusional", do some research on just how corrupt our government is, look up those previous false flag attacks, watch a few documentaries while you're at it, then look yourself in the mirror and say "Our beloved government would never do such a thing".

Originally posted by gladtobehere
Loose Change is a good refresher to watch from time to time.

At 14:00 they address remnants of the alleged plane, the single engine, the diffuser case and the wheel hub.

At 18:50 they present the two different eye witness accounts, one of flight 77 and another of a small commuter plane or a missile...

edit on 22-6-2011 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)

Loll, do you really expect some one to believe in this conspirator made video of a bunch of dumb hypothesis about some missile and some false illusion about some government conspiracy .

Originally posted by TupacShakur
You surely are a walking contradiction. I trust an experienced Navy pilot more than your opinion.

Either he is lying, or someone is lying to him and he's simply passing it along. He says in his own words:

"He points to the physical evidence at the Pentagon impact site and asks in exasperation, "Where is the damage to the wall of the Pentagon from the wings? Where are the big pieces that always break away in an accident? Where is all the luggage? Where are the miles and miles of wire, cable, and lines that are part and parcel of any large aircraft? Where are the steel engine parts? Where is the steel landing gear? Where is the tail section that would have broken into large pieces?"

Photographs of the "big pieces that always break away in an accident" as well as the engine parts as well as the landing gear found at the Pentagon have already been shown on this very forum time and time again and I know you've seen them. Plus, photos of the remains of the passengers from flight 77 were released during the Moussoui trial, and they're easy to find.

Such as this..Pentagon body 1 (WARNING: Graphic)

and this...Pentagon body 2 (WARNING: Graphic)

and this...Pentagon body 3 (WARNING: Graphic)

So if this guy is claiming that no big pieces of wreckage were found nor were there any engine parts nor were there any landing gear found nor were there any passenger remains found then he's definitively lying through his teeth regardless of how many flight hours he has. More likely, he's simply getting all his information from those damned fool conspiracy web site and he doesn't know they're lying through their teeth.

Commander Kolstad is especially critical of the account of American Airlines Flight 77 that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon. He says, "At the Pentagon, the pilot of the Boeing 757 did quite a feat of flying. I have 6,000 hours of flight time in Boeing 757's and 767's and I could not have flown it the way the flight path was described."

He's gotten everything else he's quoting wrong up until now so at this point I'm strongly suspecting the "flight path described" he's basing his opinion on is likewise some idiotic Wile E Cartoon version that Dylan Avery put out that doesn't remotely resemble the facts. I find it incredibly hard to believe a pilot with 6000 flight hours can't fly a plane in a circle when hordes of eyewitnesses who were physically there specifically saw that Hani Hanjour did.

The difference is that the pilot crashed into the portion of the Pentagon that was undergoing renovations at the time. According to the official flight path, he even turned around in the air, ensuring that he hit the spot of his choice, which out of the entire Pentagon perimeter, happened to be the one area undergoing renovations.

Are you deliberately trying to falsify your facts here? The flight path you're quoting specifically shows that during the first pass the plane was too high for it to be on any attack vector. After Hanjour passed the Pentagon he turned the craft around and dropped altitude to line up with the building, and the "section being renovated by amazing coincidence" was the only side of the Pentagon he could line up on from that direction he was coming from. I don't know where this "amazing coincidence" bit is coming from as it's a five sided building so the odds of him hitting any particular side would be 20%

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by Immortalgemini527

 

That’s it and that’s all, the delusional fact that something else hit the pentagon is functionally sad to the brain, I just cant understand why in the world people believe our beloved government did this or had even 1% knowledge of what happened. It is sad.

I cannot believe that you actually think that way! The tone of your posts radiate sarcasm, as if you are mocking somebody who has full faith in the government, but you're actually serious!

Our "beloved government" (

) has perpretrated many false flag attacks in the past. Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin? We claimed that a vietnamese gunboat attacked one of our destroyers, and took that as an act of war which led us into Vietnam. However de-classified documents show that's a complete lie, so 58,000 American citizens as well as 1.5 million Vietnamese died because our government lied to get us in there.

Have you ever heard of Operation Northwoods? I'll answer that question myself, no you have not. Our "beloved government" planned to commit terrorist attacks in US cities, and blame them on Cuba to gain support for a war. This is not a wild conspiracy theory, this is a fact, backed up by de-classified government documents.

Al Queda, the big bad goons who our "beloved government" (I still cannot get over that statement) claims are responsible for 9/11, was trained by the CIA.

Still clinging to your beloved government? Well the CIA has admitted that it hired Iranians to pose as Communists and stage bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against it's democratically elected prime minister.

Our government is as corrupt as it gets, don't forget about the drug trafficking that the CIA was involved in too.

You are defending a government which openly commits terrorist attacks against its own citizens, and uses those actions to justify invading other countries and fighting wars. 9/11 is no different, what better to rally the American people against the Middle East than a terrorist attack on our own soil? That sounds A LOT like Operation Northwoods.

If you want to talk "delusional", do some research on just how corrupt our government is, look up those previous false flag attacks, watch a few documentaries while you're at it, then look yourself in the mirror and say "Our beloved government would never do such a thing".

edit on 22-6-2011 by TupacShakur because: To edit my post

I’m really insulted by all the posters that have the galls to come out there Judas…treasonous pie hole mouths to say that our beloved government in our beloved history has ever did the things you conspirators claim that are blatant lies. All of what you said are speculations and have not been conclusively correct or nearly correct.
I think you all need to love your country and your government a little bit better or go somewhere else to live besides this great country that has not, and will never betray there people in no way shape or form.