100% conclusive evidence that a plane did hit the pentagon.

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Immortalgemini527

 

I agree it makes for a compelling re-creation. In any event, I know it happened. I was in the wireless industry then and had a friend installing an antenna on the roof of a nearby apartment building in Alexandria and the plane came right over his head and scared the crap out of him.

problem is that you can get a recreation to say anything about anything.i agree with the guy who said after 10 years, a cartoon is supposed to put my mind at ease, as well as the 1 who mentioned the lack of airplane debris. this video only tells us what the debunkers want us to believe. facts and empirical evidence. give me those things, and i will believe. where IS the fuselage at anyway?

Originally posted by charlyv
I did 2 tours, 1969 to 1977. Tell me what you were doing in those years?

If I've got this straight, you worked for the government for 8 years. You were paid? And you are asking for his employment records for that time frame?

s+f for the truth to be finally out there.

the was a perfect video, now we just need one to show that there was actually explosives used in the destruction of the towers.

and about the second video, i find it weird that he said he saw the tower being hit on tv.

Originally posted by R3N3G4D3

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
A missile would not have hit so many objects going towards the pentagon if it was a missile.

Now this statement I figured was reasonable as I thought, yeah that's true enough. You almost had me. Until BIRDS! Birds fly into airplane engines and have the power to bring them down, but metal poles are just sheared in half? I don't buy that.

Different effect. The birds stop the engine and the plane nose dives. Completely different from metal poles hitting wings. Your comparison is flawed.

Anybody that has taken the time and read read this : www.odeion.org...

And saw this ( testimony of a taxi driver ) : video.google.com...#


Must be dilusional or a disinfo agent to belive in the plane theory...

And yes I can make an animation of god creating the earth in 7 days and you will belive me that I saw it ....

Originally posted by charlyv

You do not have to believe me, but I wish you would. Put this puppy to rest in the catagory it deserves. There was no conspiracy as to what hit it. I have no information as to any conspiracy that would have caused it, and none of us will ever know that part of it, if it indeed is of such an unthinkable nature.

Just my opinion. I think that from the sound of it you can not fathom conspiracy in regards to the country/government that you at one time served in a very deliberate and conscientious way. You would prefer that everyone still had the same conviction regarding the government; "my country, right or wrong" as it would make your past decision(s) easier to live with. The world however has changed. And these are not comfortable things for any of us especially someone that served in the military to contemplate. Discomfort should not stop us from questioning. You have a lot of personal investment in the official story. We all do but you particularly. If just a fraction of what we are considering here is true, then all of our lives and beliefs have been a lie to some extent. I for one would prefer it was simply a bad dream but wishing does not make it so.

I don't for a second doubt your motives in having served the country. I also don't doubt that you never saw or participated in anything untoward while serving.

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


this really doesnt prove much

i dont think a missle hit the pentagon, but it deffintley wasnt a passenger plane
most likely a smaller, faster plane or an explosives deviece planted in the pentagon

its funny that the top video depends on that tiny camera view which is obviously suspicious..isnt the pentagon ment to be heavily secure.. i imagine there would be a seperate camera for every square inch of that place and not ones that take slow framing images

Before I do what im about to do, I would like to say im sorry but I have no choice in this situation…this is going to hurt me more then it hurts you.

I have to bring the big guns out ON 'REALITY'


1. How in the hell was this pulled off by some one inside?

2. How many people inside the government from the bottom on up do you think has understanding of this if this was government black ops?

3. Being though as the pentagon is somewhat… our defense, do you really think they had the capability to shot at them selves.

4.Do you honestly think as an American citizen of the US, that the USA would really attack themselves for some…whatever they so called did it for…REALLY?

5. So where did the passengers go?

6. If it wasn’t a missile or a plane then what was it?

7. Do you think the white house has enough power to shut the mouths up of all the high-level people in the pentagon?

8. Does it really matter which way it came ‘north or south‘, an airplane is an airplane?

9. What happened to the passengers if it was a missile…did they get paid, executed, or are they still alive somewhere 12 levels down in some fancy government bunker.

And 10. The only way this could get pulled off is by executing every passengers family tree blood line from new born baby to the eldest when it comes to…>‘So what happened to the passengers” ?

11.The only way this could get pulled off in the government is if…>23.6% of the government knew about this and was either in on it or knew exact details OR knew about it and was executed after.

12. OUR GOVERNMENT ISNT THAT STUPID TO PULL SOMETHING LIKE THIS IN THE DAYTIME….PERIOD!

'Reality needs no proof'

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Originally posted by Elieser
reply to post by userid1

 

They were not just government related people, read the information on your link, these were people involved in top secret stuff, look at the companies they worked for.
A quote from your link:
"The odds against this being a random group of 53 American Airlines passengers are simply astronomical! There are more top secret security clearances here than in most medium-sized cities in America."

And..... with a passenger list of that magnitude you would think that at an air marshal or some other type of security would have been on the plane. This might have even been a typically high profile government passenger list for that flight route and that would make you wonder why no security? And as mentioned the hijackers names would have also made the list.

I reponded to this assertion of "magnitude" on page #6.

Since it's a known fact there aren't anywhere near enough Air Marshalls to cover all the International and Domestic flights, I really don't understand why a "no Air Marshall" scenario is surprising.

Maybe the hijackers wouldn't have been on a list of "passengers" because they were "hijackers". The "passenger" list is also commonly used as a "victim" list when an incident occurs - and the hijackers clearly weren't "victims"

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


This is way too easy.

A1. Theres a difference between a sell inflicted wound and a false flag attack. Anyway, just type those four letters in google "PNAC" .

A2.Doesnt need to be alot just look at the 1993 bombing of the WTC, Just a few bad apple can screw things up. But it doesnt need necessarily to be a gov. black ops.

A3. No, but at least defend themselves.

A4 No, but dont you think a corporation gives a $#IT if its what it takes to get rich. Anyway i could assume Bush had his hand tied from lets say the Saudis or a big corporation that financed his electoral campaigns. I myself dont necessarily accuse the US for the attack. I just cant stand being lied to.

A6. Most comment i see is. Smaller plane, missile or both.

A7. Its vice versa.

A8. You kidding right?

Question 5-9-10 all relate about the same things, passengers.
I admit its hard to answer but at least i'm humble enough to considered it is a flaw in my theory,

Originally posted by charlyv
No, detective is the word when you are charged with investigating an aircraft accident while in the military. I have a few thousand hours in certain types of jet aircraft, and in the service, you are assigned forensic duties when you have a demonstrated familiarity with the aircraft you flew in, and the ordinance it carried , if any.

Do you have any sort of source to substantiate this. I don't believe it.

I really do not care what you think, but you too need a reality check on your logic. Exit wounds show raping or 'pulling' of material off an exit surface.

The question is what caused the hole. It wasn't an aircraft engine for the reasons I cited.

I am really sorry you feel that way about me.

Buck up soldier, you'll get over it. Maybe they have psychological counselling available on the base.

I wonder how much time you spent defending your country.
I did 2 tours, 1969 to 1977. Tell me what you were doing in those years?

Giving aid and comfort to humanity. I was against the war crime that was the war in Vietnam. If that's where you were, you wern't defending your country, you were advancing the financial interests of arms manufacturers and crooked politicians who decided to profit off the misery of a little country whose people had enough guts to kick the used food out of you and throw you out of their country.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

Originally posted by userid1

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Originally posted by Elieser
reply to post by userid1

 

They were not just government related people, read the information on your link, these were people involved in top secret stuff, look at the companies they worked for.
A quote from your link:
"The odds against this being a random group of 53 American Airlines passengers are simply astronomical! There are more top secret security clearances here than in most medium-sized cities in America."

And..... with a passenger list of that magnitude you would think that at an air marshal or some other type of security would have been on the plane. This might have even been a typically high profile government passenger list for that flight route and that would make you wonder why no security? And as mentioned the hijackers names would have also made the list.

I reponded to this assertion of "magnitude" on page #6.

Since it's a known fact there aren't anywhere near enough Air Marshalls to cover all the International and Domestic flights, I really don't understand why a "no Air Marshall" scenario is surprising.

Maybe the hijackers wouldn't have been on a list of "passengers" because they were "hijackers". The "passenger" list is also commonly used as a "victim" list when an incident occurs - and the hijackers clearly weren't "victims"

How about a "passenger" list that includes the hijackers? They were not hijackers at the check-in counter. How about airport personnel that checked them on? You would think there would be plenty of that with the realization; "Holy crap, that plane I loaded this morning flew into the Pentagon!" How about of the few air marshals in existence, you would think this plane due to it's particularly vulnerable government travelers, would have one on board. On a regular basis too. What were air marshals doing before 9/11?

And how about this for all you OS buffs. What would you target in NYC to bring the city and this nation to a standstill? A couple high profile office buildings that were already reviewed for demolition? And found to be outdated when completed? Or would you target the George Washington Bridge that would have crippled the city if not the country for decades? That is the key to this. If you have one shot at doing the most damage, you don't pick the target that comes equipped with conspiracy out the wazoo. This was an inside job. They wanted a target that was sufficient for everyone's purpose. This demolished the towers as was wanted by the new owner. This was heinous enough with a few thousand lost to get us into phony wars. This hurt the city and the financial district but not enough to stop the whole show. They were back bilking us in no time. The bridge however is irreplaceable in any kind of realistic time frame. One disabled vehicle on both the upper and lower at rush hour is a major news story. Imagine no bridge! Those misogynist goatherds did not do this. They just took the credit. "Yeah, we bad!"

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
Before I do what im about to do, I would like to say im sorry but I have no choice in this situation…this is going to hurt me more then it hurts you.

I have to bring the big guns out ON 'REALITY'


1. How in the hell was this pulled off by some one inside?

2. How many people inside the government from the bottom on up do you think has understanding of this if this was government black ops?

3. Being though as the pentagon is somewhat… our defense, do you really think they had the capability to shot at them selves.

4.Do you honestly think as an American citizen of the US, that the USA would really attack themselves for some…whatever they so called did it for…REALLY?

5. So where did the passengers go?

6. If it wasn’t a missile or a plane then what was it?

7. Do you think the white house has enough power to shut the mouths up of all the high-level people in the pentagon?

8. Does it really matter which way it came ‘north or south‘, an airplane is an airplane?

9. What happened to the passengers if it was a missile…did they get paid, executed, or are they still alive somewhere 12 levels down in some fancy government bunker.

And 10. The only way this could get pulled off is by executing every passengers family tree blood line from new born baby to the eldest when it comes to…>‘So what happened to the passengers” ?

11.The only way this could get pulled off in the government is if…>23.6% of the government knew about this and was either in on it or knew exact details OR knew about it and was executed after.

12. OUR GOVERNMENT ISNT THAT STUPID TO PULL SOMETHING LIKE THIS IN THE DAYTIME….PERIOD!

'Reality needs no proof'

Like I stated before, it would be quite simple to prove ALL of us TRUTHERS wrong, just release the confiscated surviellance videos from that day (i.e. Sheraton Hotel) and prove us wrong. If they have nothing to hide and speak the truth, then why have the held it away from us for 10 years? You cant just go off one single frame picture from a security booth, becuase it shows nothing conclusive. You also can't go off of witness testimony because we are hearing conflicting reports from multiple people that were there that day. There is one very simple way to prove how the events unfolded that day and that way is releasing the confiscated surviellance video, like I stated once before, I refuse to take the governments "word" for it, I want to see the plane hit the Pentagon with my own eyes and until that day happens, I'm never going to believe the official story that they gave us because it definitely doesnt add up....

reply to post by Immortalgemini527

Your arguments basically revolve around one theme: "Do you really think our government is dumb enough to do that?", and the answer is absolutely yes because they did it. We bring evidence, witnessess, testimonies from scientists, and you bring lame questions, as if emphasizing the severity of the situation and the extent to which our government would have to go to pull this off proves that it never happened.

1) Well one crucial element was that in the months prior to 9/11, Dick Cheney changed the standard operating procedure for the chain of command during the event of a hijacked aircraft. Then when it was confirmed that our planes were hi-jacked, rather than our military intercepting the airplanes and shooting them down if necessary as was protocol before Dick Cheney's change, they were ordered to stand-down. Even while the plane as approaching the Pentagon, there was a count-down, and when it hit ten minutes some military dude asked Cheney "Do the orders still stand?" and he said "Of course they still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary?". This was made public during a CCTV interview with another politician who was right there and originally didn't understand what orders Cheney was referring to.

2) All it takes is the big dogs, but if I had to guess I would estimate anywhere from 20-100 is all that's needed to pull this off.

3) That was the point! Our government staged an attack, and blamed it on another country to gain support for a war. Sounds familiar? The Gulf of Tonkin: We claimed that a Vietnamese gunboat attacked us when de-classified documents show that that was a lie, and even when fired upon by our destroyers it didn't even return fire. It happened then, it can and did happen again.

4) Yes, the attack which was blamed on certain terrorists from the Middle East enraged America, our one common trait for those weeks was anger at those responsible, and the Bush Administration used that to their advantage to invade the Middle East. Those WMDs that we were told to worry about? Yeah those never existed.

5) Why does this matter? They could have been taken to an airport and shot, flown into an ocean, taken to Hawaii and thrown in a volcano, etc. This detail is completely irrelavent, if the plan was to kill thousands of our citizens, then surely they wouldn't have a problem with killing some airline passengers.

6) It was either a missile or a plane, credible eyewitnesses saw the aircraft prior to impact, it's a question of which aircraft.

7) Not every single member of the government needs to be involved to pull of a false flag attack, it only takes a few big dogs like I said earlier.

8) The flight path given to the public, by our government, is incorrect according to many credible eyewitness testinomies. So yes it does matter, the government provided false information to the public, i.e. lied to them.

9) Here you go again cherry-picking some irrelavent detail, when in the grand scheme of the 9/11 attacks this is one of the last questions you should be asking. I would guess that they were killed, but I have no way of knowing this. Maybe our government loaded them into a spaceship and shot them into the sun, buried them alive, threw them in a pool with sharks with laser beams on their head, I don't know and I don't care because regardless of how it happened our government is responsible for their deaths.

10) I don't understand your logic here.

11) Again, we only need the top dogs involved in planning along with a few goons to help them plant the explosives and do whatever tasks the Bush Administration couldn't personally do while they were busy relaxing at the Crawford ranch.

12) Yeah I guess your word is good enough. I've been wrong all along about 9/11, the mounds of evidence, countless documentaries and websites I've spent time gathering information from are all thrown out of the window, because you say that our government isn't stupid enough to do it. Now I can sleep at night, thanks you for putting the 9/11 false flag conspiracy theories to rest with your factual information.

reply to post by Hemisphere
Not to mention flying right by the Indian River nuclear facility. They could have had a good portion of the east coast of the US in traction for thousands of years if they really wanted to and, according to the Bush administration, they, al-CIAda, really did want to.

Within a day or so of 9/11 the PBS news program, the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour had broadcast interviews with all the major players in the middle eastern resistance movements and all of them denied having anything to do with 9/11. This used to be viewable on their web archive but I don't know if it is still available.

The Taliban acknowledged that bin Laden was staying in their country but said that he was in no position to coordinate any sort of terrorist operation from there. bin laden himself, when ask to make a statement about the attack said that he had nothing to do with it and that he thought that it must have been done by someone in the West for their own purposes.

It is very useful to see the interview with Yasser Arafat where he is very careful to express condolences to America and to condemn the 9/11 attack. He gives the appearance of being petrified. Those people were not stupid. Arafat must have known very well that 9/11 would bring trouble to his region. None of those people would have undertaken an attack like that, for reasons which are obvious to the layperson in hindsight, but which would have been foremost in the minds of operational commanders from that region.

What happened on 9/11 was that America wanted something that belonged to someone else, oil, and the deep thinkers at the Project For The New American Century decided to take a leaf from the book of Tawana Brawley, the young girl who faked being roughed up and raped, to get it.

en.wikipedia.org...

Tawana was exposed as a fraud by the investigations that followed her accusations, uncovering witnesses to the fraud and forensic evidence that called her story into question. We know Tawana was a liar for that reason.

America's turn is coming, hopefully.

reply to post by ipsedixit
One of the tidbits of info in the Brawley case was the 'fesces' she wiped on herself, and then accused her 'attackers' of doing it. Well, it appears you guys defending the OS are doing the exact same thing, and quite well, I must say.

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

One of the tidbits of info in the Brawley case was the 'fesces' she wiped on herself, and then accused her 'attackers' of doing it. Well, it appears you guys defending the OS are doing the exact same thing, and quite well, I must say.

When you say "you guys", I hope you don't mean me. I don't think you do. I've been attacking the Bush administration on 9/11 since 2007. I do employ irony from time to time which might be confusing. Like giving the person who posted the phoney animation earlier in the thread a star and flag.

Just to clarify, I firmly believe that 9/11 was an inside job.

reply to post by ipsedixit
I apologize if you were inadvertantly offended, my bad. They know exactly who I'm referring to. I can smell them from here.

reply to post by dillweed

I haven't been in the 9/11 forum for a while, so I am somewhat surprised to see old arguments for the OS being trotted out anew. I guess as new people investigate the topic, the shill squads go to work trying to muddify things as much as possible.