NBC apologizes for cutting "under God" from Pledge of Allegiance before U.S. Open

Originally posted by eNumbra
Doesn't mean god exists or that anyone truly needs him.

Is that not the question in which we need to seek for ourselves?

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ~ U. S. Constitution

What the first amendment actually states is that - Congress cannot make a law that establishes and prohibits the free exercise of religion. It does not say "Separation of Church & State". Congress can make laws based upon moral philosophies, which also include those influenced by religion.

reply to post by gentledissident

No ghosts? what does that mean? Yes we would take up arms fight and change a corrupt government, it has been stated that is one must do every now and then we are way over due to overthrow and throw off the shackles of this present system.

Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by eNumbra
Doesn't mean god exists or that anyone truly needs him.

Is that not the question in which we need to seek for ourselves?

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ~ U. S. Constitution

What the first amendment actually state is that - Congress cannot make a law that established and prohibits the free exercise of religion. It does not say "Separation of Church & State"

Which is exactly the reason so many people have a problem with christians acting persecuted when someone omits "under god" from the pledge, and with those that claim it's a christian nation.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by gentledissident

 

No ghosts? what does that mean?

That means you will be fighting for you. There will be no god fighting for you.

Originally posted by eNumbra
Which is exactly the reason so many people have a problem with christians acting persecuted when someone omits "under god" from the pledge, and with those that claim it's a christian nation.

I get where you are going.

However, by using the words 'creator' and 'god' without defining them, the government is not actually declaring an allegiance to one particular religion. If they wrote the phrase 'on nation under Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc...', congress would have violated the first amendment. They went with a more universal language; thus, we recognize all religions and philosophies.

Do you need an established religion to believe in a God?

Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by eNumbra
Which is exactly the reason so many people have a problem with christians acting persecuted when someone omits "under god" from the pledge, and with those that claim it's a christian nation.

I get where you are going.

However, by using the words 'creator' and 'god' without defining them, the government is not actually declaring an allegiance to one particular religion. If they wrote the phrase 'on nation under Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc...', congress would have violated the first amendment. They went with a more universal language.

That's not exactly where I was going. I get that under god is universal. except of course to those who don't practice a religion and therefore should at least be allowed to omit under god without being crucified, since (though technically yes they aren't promoting a single religion) they are promoting religion in general.

The non-religious, militant about it or no need to be considered as well.

I'm curious. There's talk of the USA being Christian or a a place for any religion. How many of you believers think atheists don't belong in the USA?

reply to post by Signals


Gotta give in to Christian terrorism in America.

Originally posted by eNumbra
That's not exactly where I was going. I get that under god is universal. except of course to those who don't practice a religion and therefore should at least be allowed to omit under god without being crucified, since (though technically yes they aren't promoting a single religion) they are promoting religion in general.

The non-religious, militant about it or no need to be considered as well.

I used the word 'however' within my last post, which means 'I understand your approach, but...'

If you and I were to go back in time, the majority of those around us would have a religion. Once they noticed the founding fathers were acknowledging 'the creator', within the documentation, they immediately accepted the 'new world's paradigms'. I think it was added to prevent the United States from becoming a dictatorship or monarchy.

When King George (the man) was using religion to rule over people, he established himself as the head of the church. Mankind rules mankind mentality. As a result of reversing the order, mankind is now placed below god. Other words, If you become a corrupt leader, you will eventually have to answer to a higher power.

I don't think the founding fathers had a choice, and I think their approach still has merit.

Even though non-religious people have issues with the wording, I think its existence prevents a BIGGER problem from surfacing.

Kind of a separate question, do you hand out presents at Christmas?

Originally posted by gentledissident
I'm curious. There's talk of the USA being Christian or a a place for any religion. How many of you believers think atheists don't belong in the USA?

Although I practice a particular religion, I am 100% religious and non-religious tolerant. We are all human beings trying to find our place within this world, and the diversity found in our society makes us better.

reply to post by gentledissident


How could or would you say that? If you read how the USA started and all the breaks it got by what some would say providence, then I would say that basic human rights are given by God then if that nation has been faithfull then God would protect them but since this nation has gone a she ass sniffing at the wind God would turn a deaf ear to the esablishmen and could possible help those who would fight for their God given rights.

Originally posted by Section31
When King George (the man) was using religion to rule over people, he established himself as the head of the church. Mankind rules mankind mentality. As a result of reversing the order, mankind is now placed below god. Other words, If you become a corrupt leader, you will eventually have to answer to a higher power.

Why should someone have to answer to a higher power, they should answer to their peers.

I don't think the founding fathers had a choice, and I think their approach still has merit.

They did not have a choice at the time, I think even now, considering how rigidly much of the world sees their religion the same approach would remain necessary. That's what disappoints me.

Kind of a separate question, do you hand out presents at Christmas?

You mean the pagan celebration of the winter solstice?
I do, but mostly because others do. I would quite literally become an outcast in today's society if I did not reciprocate.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
, then I would say that basic human rights are given by God ....

AFAIK the only right god ever gave us is het right to die. Everything else - even conception - has always been optional depending on who had the power to enforce their particular world view at the time - whether influenced by a mythical fairy or not.

I see nothing about the USA that is any different.

reply to post by gentledissident


If you were to read the bible there are prophecies of the return of Christ and how He will physically intervene in the battle of Armageddon. And yes I could see God using the weather and other such natural thing to intervene in a war between good and evil. If you were to read of the early settlers and their interaction with the natives the native’s marveled that the settlers God brought rain in the right amount and enough of the good things to produce a good harvest compared to tornados and heavy rains and cold weather.

Assuming that there is a fair and just God that has the slightest bit of interest in a bunch of monkeys that evolved into upright-walking beings on a small rock, capable and likely headed towards nuking each other into extinction, I find it ironic that a nation so hell-bent on dominating the rock's resources through war and intimidation, would put so much emphasis on ensuring that this fair and just God is mentioned as a "shout-out" in their tribute to a piece of cloth to differentiate themselves from all the other nations that were not founded under said God.

Second line.

Doesnt matter if the word is God, Superman or Spiderman I dont think any words should be cut out of the pledge or it doesnt stand for anything