Caution: They know much more!!

FWIW
here is a pretty cool history of the unmanned lunar orbiter program.

What is interesting is the early issues with the film in this section and Kodak's early bimat system.

the index

Harak. This is off topic, I like your avatar and I have a question about it. Is that from Angkor Wat? The picture was from the temple called Angkor Thom.

All I can put to this whole shebang is that xray can and does destroy film. A freind of mine recently returned from Zimbarbwi and had a few rolls of film totally destroyed and others damaged when his suitcase was put through security xray machine before he could retreive his film. Some of those damaged photos I saw were damaged by the metal rim of the film cartridge absorbing xray radiation.
Theres is a small amount of radiation output from those machines as in xrays we get of ourselves. tecks wear lead aprons. Makes you wonderhow nasa film survived !

Originally posted by HowardRoark


Has anyone else spotted the logical absurdity in Shai's argument?

He uses the chemical composition of lunar dust, as determined by the analysis of samples returned by the lunar missions to "prove" that the lunar soil would not have been able to show a footprint.

You are right Howard, Shai's posts are full of contradictory absurdities because he relies on the ravings of sites like cosmicapollo for his information and never, ever takes reality or established scientific fact into account.

His earlier comparison of lunar dust to earth desert sand was so laughable that I just had to show it round the office.

Shai, sand on earth is mainly small particles of smooth, rounded, weathered rock which will not easily stick together unless water is present as a bonding agent.

On the moon there is of course no weathering. The small amount of dust that is there is formed by angular particles resulting from meteorite break-up - totally different from sand on earth. Because the lunar particles are angular, they easily stick together and would, of course, form a footprint.

www.redzero.demon.co.uk... (Click the footprints link from this page)

Shai, do some actual research, and stop being so naive and believing these ridiculous sites who are only interested in selling gullible idiots books and videos.



[edit on 1-2-2005 by harrisjohns]

[edit on 1-2-2005 by harrisjohns]

And if I find out who filed a false claim against me for supposedly 'Phishing'I will see that person in court and have his shirt.

Promise
;-)

Again no proof just a blanket statement...about the moon silicate.
The moon has been blasted with so many meteorites that the silicate is mostly glass crystal and the amounts of it to be found on the moon are lower than on earth. That's what the study says...
The earth is 100 x brighter on the moon than the moon is to us...the reflective qualites of the moon are INDEED the same as asphalt..and you still don't answer the question about Armstrong or even Buzz Aldrin seeing ET's and strange lights.

Worthless clap-trap as far as answers go...including most of yours.
The official story is full of holes...the film folks can't agree what film was used, and the astronauts can't agree on who held the cameras. and also can't agree on what they saw on the surface....that's on the record and undisputed by anyone.
So believe what and who you want to believe..that's your choice.
My position is that the 'official story'is largely inconsistent and therefore not to be taken at face value.

But right now I am talking to globalsystems to see who filed a false complaint against me..and if I find out it was anyone from ATS...like YOU Harris...I will have you in court so fast it will make your head spin.

;-)

-Sincerely
-Shai

Originally posted by Shai


But right now I am talking to globalsystems to see who filed a false complaint against me..and if I find out it was anyone from ATS...like YOU Harris...I will have you in court so fast it will make your head spin.

;-)

How dare you suggest this or is this the only way that you can answer rational argument - to accuse people of illegal and fradulent activity.

Your acccusation is highly libellous and I'm going to complain about this to the moderators.

Originally posted by harrisjohns

Originally posted by Shai


But right now I am talking to globalsystems to see who filed a false complaint against me..and if I find out it was anyone from ATS...like YOU Harris...I will have you in court so fast it will make your head spin.

;-)

How dare you suggest this or is this the only way that you can answer rational argument - to accuse people of illegal and fradulent activity.

Your acccusation is highly libellous and I'm going to complain about this to the moderators.

Yo HJ...got your U2U and wrote you back. Please check your mail.
As for making accusations of illegal activity...that is MY complaint!
Someone reading this thread sent a bogus complaint to my hosting service accusing me of Phishing.
Why do I know it was from this thread? because it is the only thread and in fact the only webpage that I ever posted my NEW URL. It is not in Google or search engines since the page wasn't made until just before Christmas and it has yet to be submitted.
This Thread, on this site is the one and only place that URL was ever posted...so someone HERE, be it member or reader is playing dirty tricks..on me..and perhaps both of us.

On reflection it could even be some of my former employers getting a dig in..I wouldn't put it past them.
On a side note, I am on constant pain medication and struggling with a recently diagnosed nerve disorder which makes posting a bit scrambled sometimes...a point you've mentioned, and to which I will try and pay more attention.

Now then, back to the accusations about accusations....I withdraw mine and apologize for being hasty.
Having said that I will do everything in my power to find out who lodged the false complaint against me and for one simple reason..shutting down my website is taking bread away from my family..it is causing trouble to others besides little old me..and it is UNFORGIVEABLE.
I hope you will write and echo that sentiment.

-Sincerely
-Shai


----- Original Message -----
From: "Support GlobeDomain"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:37 AM
Subject: [ZRA-90555]: WHY HAS MY WEBSITE BEEN SUSPENDED?

We have recieved complaints of phishing at www.hm/logonwamu.com

phishing and any such activity is not tolerated on our servers. Your account will remain suspended until you can provide an explaination.

Your U2U hasn't come through yet, but one thing we can agree on is that I do believe that this sort of dirty trick is despicable and cowardly. In fact, it's nothing short of harrassment.

However much someone disagrees with another's point of view, there's no need to resort to this sort of underhand tactic!

Please Keep Things Civil, Folks

Otherwise we'll close the thread.

Originally posted by harrisjohns
Your U2U hasn't come through yet, but one thing we can agree on is that I do believe that this sort of dirty trick is despicable and cowardly. In fact, it's nothing short of harrassment.

However much someone disagrees with another's point of view, there's no need to resort to this sort of underhand tactic!

Dear Harris Johns,
I take you at your word....I apologize for singling you out as suspect for such a tactic and withdraw the accusation completely.

What is clear is that someone came on THIS thread and found my URL and then went about trying to shut my site down..it had to have happened in the last 3 days since the URL was first posted on 28-01-05..and only HERE.

[You won't find the URL in Google..it never was submitted to search engines]

So someone is being cowardly or cruel..and that person will be made known to me within 48 hours by my hosting company..a lawyer is already on it...and together we are going after the guilty party.

Will keep everyone here and at ATS informed.

-Sha i

Dear group,

My lawyer got in touch with the owners at globalsystems hosting, the parent company of www.hm on which I placed my site.
It appears that the www.hm folks or someone on their staff was using dummy sites to phish and so they discontinued the srvice, and sent a form letter to each www.hm member advising them of the suspension..not realizing that the letters were going to clients [subdomains] of www.hm hosting and not the owners of the service.
Client # 389-1204> Complaint Status: ANC-89328
Last Update: 02 Feb 2005 11:11 AM
Last Replier: Shai Shahar
Status: Open
Department: Support GlobeDomain
Created On: 01 Feb 2005 10:41 AM

RE: I DO NOT PHISH!

"Hi,

we assumed that you were the owner of www.hm contacting us about why www.hm was suspended and not your particular sub domain.
we ourselves did not know that www.hm was a redirection/virtual hosting service until this incident.

We have been recieving 100s of mails from the customers of www.hm. from around the world So you can imagine our frustration!

We wish you all the luck in your business.

Regards,
Pankaj Motreja
Support Staff Mngr.
Global Domain Internet Services

So to one and all, and especially Harris Johns, my deepest, most humble apologies for my most hasty and accusative post.
It is regretted

-Sincerely
-shai

I don't know if this has been mentioned, I've only skimmed a lot of the pages due to all posts between Shai and harrisjohns.

Regarding the wonderful pictures that were taken, it's quite obvious that NASA didn't want to publish blurry out of focus pictures so all the pictures that the public has seen looks great. You don't put your mistakes in a company broschure for example, don't you.

You think you all know the history of the potato, but you are WRONG! It was not first grown 4500 years in early Peru, the government knows this but they hide it from you. WHY you ask? I TELL YOU WHY. The Potatoes (I shall hereby capitalise the word to demonstrate their independent being as an intelligent race) are Earth's main intergalactic traders! They actually come from Venus, where they spend their days frying in methane vapours and bringing their children here to be eaten by us. YES, we eat Potato peoples' babies!

We don't wage war on them or tell the public because the Potatoes are dangerous and have waged secret war on us since the turn of the 20th century using sex as a medium. They programmed the game Leisure Suit Larry as a politically subversive tool to aid Australian terrorists. Rolf Harris is a genetically engineered Potato propaganda machine!

I will not give you evidence for this because you must all call upon the Force that lays latent with each one of you. If you do not believe me, you will die on judgement day, Chippageddon. It is coming soon. I only tell you this to open your mind! Furthermore, my random making words bold is a sign that I am emphasis what should be inherently known by you!




On a more serious note. Anything without proof is a work of fiction. I have heard about the HAM radio operators who supposedly intercepted the NASA transmissions and there was detailed discussion about the codewords used. Logs were provided but only in a written format. No actual recordings, just another fantastic story sitting on a geocities web page.

As for Mars landings, again, there's information out there on the subject but again it is sketchy and not evidenced.

Without providing at least some evidence or links to people who talk about the evidence of links to people who think similarly and may have seen the slightest bit of reported evidence once upon a time... you give yourself as much credibility as a cheese sandwich.

Hi Shai, thanks for clearing up this matter and for having the decency to let us know the outcome.

Your apology is accepted and much appreciated.

However, that doesn't mean that I'll ever agree with your views on the lunar landings!

Originally posted by Nairod
You think you all know the history of the potato, but you are WRONG! It was not first grown 4500 years in early Peru, the government knows this but they hide it from you. WHY you ask? I TELL YOU WHY. The Potatoes (I shall hereby capitalise the word to demonstrate their independent being as an intelligent race) are Earth's main intergalactic traders! They actually come from Venus, where they spend their days frying in methane vapours and bringing their children here to be eaten by us. YES, we eat Potato peoples' babies!

We don't wage war on them or tell the public because the Potatoes are dangerous and have waged secret war on us since the turn of the 20th century using sex as a medium. They programmed the game Leisure Suit Larry as a politically subversive tool to aid Australian terrorists. Rolf Harris is a genetically engineered Potato propaganda machine!

I will not give you evidence for this because you must all call upon the Force that lays latent with each one of you. If you do not believe me, you will die on judgement day, Chippageddon. It is coming soon. I only tell you this to open your mind! Furthermore, my random making words bold is a sign that I am emphasis what should be inherently known by you!




On a more serious note. Anything without proof is a work of fiction. I have heard about the HAM radio operators who supposedly intercepted the NASA transmissions and there was detailed discussion about the codewords used. Logs were provided but only in a written format. No actual recordings, just another fantastic story sitting on a geocities web page.

As for Mars landings, again, there's information out there on the subject but again it is sketchy and not evidenced.

Without providing at least some evidence or links to people who talk about the evidence of links to people who think similarly and may have seen the slightest bit of reported evidence once upon a time... you give yourself as much credibility as a cheese sandwich.

I KNEW IT!!! Mr. Potato Head is an alien!!!

I missed this one the first time I read it.

Originally posted by Shai
Like why, if moon gravity is so low, did the astronauts not kick up dust clouds when they skipped and jumped..dust clouds that should have hung for hours.

Shai, you really can’t be serious here. Are you?

Even you should be able to figure out the answer to this one.








hint


[edit on 2-2-2005 by HowardRoark]

Originally posted by HowardRoark
I missed this one the first time I read it.

Originally posted by Shai
Like why, if moon gravity is so low, did the astronauts not kick up dust clouds when they skipped and jumped..dust clouds that should have hung for hours.

Shai, you really can’t be serious here. Are you?

Even you should be able to figure out the answer to this one.








hint


[edit on 2-2-2005 by HowardRoark]

If you don't want to be bored by the text of my rebuttal then just skip down to the bottom of this post and PLEASE explain the photos ..official NASA photos and how they could be genuine?
Thank you!

Now, for the rebuttal...first to Howard..

Neil Armstrong said that as he looked out the LM window as they touched down he saw dust spreading out horizontally very fast and over the horizon of the moon and then dying to nothing, like it never happened.
So one would expect to see dust kicked up by the jumping doing the same thing...travelling very fast out of frame, since there would be no wind resistance,, and arcing almost horizontally before falling dead to the ground..in straight lines...
Besides, all reports say the moon dust was onlly talc-like to a depth of maybe 2 inches and most of it was rocky chunks and blasted glass...meaning some particles or clots would have a degree of weight and not fall quite as fast as they would on earth..yes?
i am open to those who might maintain that instead of disturbing the dust they only compacted all the silicon together when they bounced up and down..but what about that famous golf swing on the moon..he kicked up one hell of a divot but the dust did not spread laterally across the horizon, did it?
Nor di it do that other-worldy swirling bit that is used as an excuse for why no dust was kicked up on take off from the surface.

NASA's chief Apollo historian was kind enough to answer some questions for me...[Bob Braeuning] about film base emulsions and sub-strata..but only for the Hasselblad 500EL's..as well as a few other points. He could not, however account for the foto on www.aulis.com showing the flap on the back of an astronaut that does not appear in the video of the same event,.but has promised to get back to me.

No one to date has debunked or explained either of these anomalies in the official NASA record..and seem content to ignore them when addressing debunkers .
[img]http://www.aulis.com/images/nasa_art1.gif

Someone is also going to have to explain to me again about the cross hairs disappearing because of over-exposure or bright light refelcting off objects.
The crosshairs were not on the lens as in most cameras, they were engraved on a plate placed between the lens and the film so [NASA claims] that accurate distances and object ratios could be measured ..and yet that process can only be done with two cameras or a stereoscopic camera with two lenses, set apart and at angles to each other..yes?. NASA does mention 1 stereoscopic camera...I will go and find the link if asked...in the meantime...
perhaps the best arbiter of what photographic equipment was taken to the moon is not Kodak, the film-maker but Hasselblad who made the cameras.

here's what thye have to say:
The Data Camera, like the other two 500ELs, was a modified standard 500EL camera but differed from the others in several ways:


(1) The Data Camera was fitted with a so-called Reseau plate. The Reseau plate was made of glass and was fitted to the back of the camera body, extremely close to the film plane. The plate was engraved with a number of crosses to form a grid. The intersections were 10 mm apart and accurately calibrated to a tolerance of 0.002 mm. Except for the larger central cross, each of the four arms on a cross was 1 mm long and 0.02 mm wide. The crosses are recorded on every exposed frame and provided a means of determining angular distances between objects in the field-of-view.

[* Shai's note..bear that in mind when you see the pics below!']


(2) The Data Camera was fitted with a new Zeiss lens, a Biogon f-5.6/60 mm, specially designed for NASA, which later became available commercially. Careful calibration tests were performed with the lens fitted in the camera in order to ensure high-quality, low-distortion images. Furthermore, the lens of the camera was fitted with a polarizing filter which could easily be detached.
[* Shai's note..do you mark the reference to a polarizing filter..that in itself would eliminate the cross-hairs fading in overexposures]

(3) The Data Camera was given a silver finish to make it more resistant to thermal variations that ranged from full Sun to full shadow helping maintain a more uniform internal temperature. The two magazines carried along with the Data Camera also had silver finishes. Each was fitted with a tether ring so that a cord could be attached when the Lunar Module Pilot lowered the mated magazine and camera from the lunar module to the Commander standing on the lunar surface. The exposed magazines were hoisted the same way.
(4) ...The Reseau plate, or register glass, is not a new development in photography. What is most remarkable, however, is that the group of Hasselblad staff working on NASA camera projects in collaboration with Carl Zeiss was successful in applying the idea to a small camera - like the Hasselblad 500EL Data Camera. This camera is not only useful in space photography, it is particularly suitable for all kinds of aerial photography. The special cameras produced in the past for aerial photography were large and intended for a large negative-format - frequently meaning high prices. The Hasselblad 500EL Data Camera with its Reseau plate produced a small and comparatively low-cost camera which gave satisfactory results in aerial photographic work.

Do you see any mention of a stereoscopic camera?

But anyway, my point is not that the astronauts didn't make it to the moon, my point is that the official record of the trip..most of it photographic, has flaws that are unanswered by the 'believers'

here's another one that no one from the debunking the moon hoax theorists wants to comment upon

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

And this one, too:
[img]http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/xcrosshairs.jpeg[/img
www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...
There are two astronauts reflected in the visor plus the one being photgraphed..2+ 1 =3..so who was the 'fourth" cameraman?

Now if we all could confine our responses to just answering these photos perhaps we could settle the argument.


Awaiting the debunking of these photos..not a spin-off into other angles or subjetcs...

-Sincerely
-Shai

]

Looks exactly like the reflection of the 3rd astronaut in the pic from my last post..yes?
NASA claims of the first photo that it originally only showed one astronaut but then..for fun..added a second.

[www.hq.nasa.gov...]

So..if you believe that you HAVE to believe that NASA fakes its own fotos for fun!..and in a rather funny way...not addding captions or cartoons, but making them to look indistinguishable from the 'real photos'...in fact they are so awfully good at faking photos.. that no one can tell real from fake..
Hmmm
So what is the guarantee that the story isn't opposite to the truth..that originally there weren't indeed TWO astronauts but that NASA deleted one of them?

I have been saying all along that NASA has tampered with the photos to try and make them match an official story.
NASA and the believers always deny that,...but to rebut this fotot what do they resort to? Telling us that they tampered with the foto.

Hmmmm again...

-Sincerely
-Shai

Shai, you once again provide wonderful entertainment. Your theories on how dust should act in an airless environment are hilarious.

Oh and by the way, those photoshopped pictures. Absolutely great, (although doesn’t this thread belong in the BTS humor forum if your are going to keep posting those obvious fakes?)

this is the picture of Buzz aldrin leaving the LM as taken by Armstrong..notice the crosshairs go at a diagonal from the horizon line ....and Buzz is perfectly centered..

In order to correct for an angle like this one would have to have a view finder and adjust the camera accordingly..to compensate and get the astronaut so perfectly framed..but the cameras had no view finder..and were mounted at chest level on the astronauts
No other foto from this vantage point shows the same anomaly where the crosshairs run diagonal to the horizon line..

Go figure....