Judge has harsh words for Mom before sentencing her for spanking her kid

reply to post by Horza

Few things are as so well supported by research literature and so well agreed upon by psychologists across the board. tulane.edu... www.nospank.net...

Thank you. It is a heated issue and people cling to their beliefs like they are some type of religion. There are people that believe there is some sort of a Godly commandment that says to hit your children.

This is a first step in creating obedient followers and not independent thinkers.
Suffer the little children...not - make them suffer!
This means to put up with their childish ways and love them anyway.

Teaching children to be good kids and respectful of others is something you show by example, not exasperation.

Teaching children to blindly OBEY you are simply indoctrinating them to be useful tools for the military service which is really what I think is behind the big push to keep corporal punishment alive. It is not all these concerned parents (?) posting in favor of retaining spanking and humiliation as parental tools. It is keeping a good and never ending supply of willing, obedient and trainable soldiers.

reply to post by newcovenant

You may not take it too far. But we both know people who do

Yes, and they are the people that the law will not stop, they will still beat their children..to death sometimes (and there are many horrific, and verifiable stories about these instances)

But to criminalise a smack to a child, where there is no other evidence of abuse, and to find guilty a parent and(the result of the subsequent consequences) which are remove the child to government care (which will prob do the child far more harm in the long term - children are not often handed over to relatives just in case they may be abusers themselves...well..where else would the abusive parent of the current abused child learn their behaviour apart from their parents...the grandparents of the abused child! ~All because a child possibly put themselves in danger and the parents tried to protect them....

And yes parents under stress sometimes lash out at kids (shouting, grabbing by arm etc) ...in a moments frustration...that may be witnessed by others and they are then judged, but can anyone testify to the love and support that these kids get from their parents at all other times? And this is not a statement in support of child abuse, it is simply a scenario of everyday life...Yes I chastised my daughter with a slap on three occasions when she was very young to prevent her coming to harm, but I love my daughter more than anything I can describe..and throughout the years of loving and caring for her, her wellbeing has always been paramount to me and she knows how much I love her. And now, when I believe that she should take some responsibility, she mostly agrees, but sometimes she thinks I just ramble on about unimportant stuff (like cleaning her room!) and as such, she, and I, have our moments, where yes, we can both be slightly intolerant of each other...but none of us use any violence...so the 3 smacks she had as a young child have not had any effect on her (nearly) adult attitude to dealing with situations...(but she doesn't always clean her room

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by Unity_99
I would like to know where the law is, that allowed this case to go forward.

The mother pleading guilty to a bogus charge is what allowed this to go forward. If she plead innocent, the same would be true. Had she challenged the jurisdiction and refused to plead until actual jurisdiction was proven on record, it is doubtful this would have moved forward and the scolding judge would have been saying something else all together. The mothers own plea of guilt empowered an arrogant judge and encouraged this nonsense.

This is absolutely correct. Intimidation and fear of the system is what the courts count on these days, it has become a David and Goliath situation and they will use all there means to subvert you before you can appear in front of a jury of your peers. The sad thing is because of political nonsense, your defense lawyer is in some cases the person who can do you the most harm.

If you are not guilty, you should never plead no contest, guilty or anything of the sort, you must take the case in front of your peers, pour out the sheer honesty of the situation and let those that you walk past everyday decide your fate.

The moment you put your future into the hands of the state, be it a judge, DA or even your defense lawyer and decide to take the easy way out...... You are not only killing a little part of yourself but believe me, your also killing a little part of the rest of the world. You must never say you are guilty when you are not, not ever.

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain

Thanks for the advice! My daughter is a funny one, she doesnt act up all the time but maybe once or twice during the week when we are out she will start running around a store and touching things and not listening to me, sometimes she will throw a tantrum for the most random reason (for instance if I dont respond to something she has said with a particular word she for some reason believes is the correct word to respond with )..... But I love her so much and want to do whats right by her, so I will take the advice you have given and see what happens, I like the idea of going through her day with her I already read to her at night so we can do it before story time.

Originally posted by guessing

Originally posted by Horza

Originally posted by Greensage
I am absolutely floored! We can kill adults but we cannot spank a child?

This has got to stop! It is high time punishment for wrong-doing becomes the norm! Personally I would pull that Judge's pants down and spank him myself! Publicly!

The reason why we kill adults is because we spank children.

edit on 18/6/11 by Horza because: (no reason given)

Is that really so?

what world do you live in?

The world you live in .. the world in which violence begets violence.

Anyone who challenges this statement is only trying to justify the abuse they inflict on others.

There is so much research and literature available that shows undeniably the effect that even small amounts of regular violence has on a child and therefore has on the adult they become and therefore has on the society we live in.

Most of us are simply to proud and/or ashamed to accept what we are being shown.

Don't smack your kids. It makes the world a worse place to live.

Originally posted by destination now
so the 3 smacks she had as a young child have not had any effect on her (nearly) adult attitude to dealing with situations...(but she doesn't always clean her room

You are right and the evidence supports what you are saying.

A whole lotta love, the love you have shown your daughter, will heal the damage ... and you sound like a great parent! ... and I know how tough it is to raise kids ...

However, when it comes to smacking, as a society, as a law, we must outlaw it completely.

It would be impossible to draw a line that says "Only a few smack is ok" and so the only answer is zero tolerance.

If you say yes to smacking then there will be parents that smack their children everyday for every little indiscretion and that kind of smacking is abuse.

Let me ask you this question in general to the forum.

Why is it ok to smack our children but not our spouse when they do something that we see a punishable offence?

reply to post by Horza


My daughter was never smacked as a punishment, more in an effort to reinforce why she should never run out into a road, stick her hand into an electrical socket or reach up to grab a boiling pot from a stove...

I totally disagree with violence so not sure why you're asking me the rather bizarre question about hitting your spouse if they have done something that irritates you...when my daughter was smacked on those three occasions, she was not annoying me, she was in danger, so I hope that answers your question.

reply to post by destination now


Think of the question as a thought experiment ... a hypothetical ...

Put it like this:

Would you smack your spouse for stepping out onto the road in front of a car?

No, as a society we would see that as inappropriate at best or domestic violence at worst.

I personally don't see the difference between a toddler or an adult walking out in front of a car and being spanked.

I also believe there is always another solution than having to resort to smacking.

I also want to point out clearly to you that I in no way question the love you have for your child or your ability as a parent. That is not the purpose of this discussion.

The purpose, for me, is to show that smacking, on a social scale, is a residue of the thousands of years of abuse we have inflicted on our children and must be stopped completely.

The ongoing and inevitable outlawing of smacking is not an attack on individuals, freedom of choice or some form government control but a much larger, social issue that needs to be resolved before we can make the step forward towards a peaceful and progressive society.

reply to post by Horza


I see a clear difference between a toddler and an adult. Especially when it's your own toddler.

reply to post by Horza

Would you smack your spouse for stepping out onto the road in front of a car?

Chances are they'd be in hospital with serious injuries or possibly dead if they stepped out in front of a car! What a ridiculous analogy...:But yes, if they went to step out onto a road without looking and were in danger of being hit by an oncoming vehicle I would grab them in an attempt to keep them from harm, and yes, I probably would say "what a stupid thing to do...you're an adult you should know that you don't step out into the road without looking when you could possibly get hit by a car"

With a toddler, they have no concept of getting hit by a car, and god forbid they should have to learn that from experience (if they survive!) so it's not really comparable to ask if I'd smack my spouse in a similar situation!

reply to post by dolphinfan


One of the MAIN problems with kids today is the fact that daddy hasn't put a belt on those unruly little cusses.
Not disciplining your kids is the reason why so many kids out there have no moral connection. They have never learned the consequences of their actions, they have never been taught the difference. The thing that kept my young mind from straying to the darker sides of life was the fear instilled in me by my fathers belt. I didn't want to come home to a whipping. I knew when I was doing wrong, and I knew what would cause him to have to punish me. It kept my nose clean.

Not spanking your children is probably the worse thing you could ever do to a child. in not doing so you are teaching children that it is ok to act out, it's ok to do bad things'

Children NEED to be disciplined...when you don't, it leads to things like, kids growing up being spoiled brats that get whatever they want, never having to work or ask for anything,expecting everything to be handed to them.

This judge should be dis-barred. she is only creating problems for Americas parents, and the future of America.

-Simms

reply to post by destination now


Thank you for having common sense. This is a trait that has been bred out of most Americans.

-Simms

I want to retract my statement that the Judge should be spanked instead!

Seriously, I was wrong because I did not understand based on a false article/report that the child was not injured, when in fact, they had to go to the hospital as a result of the opened hand on bare bottom assault by the mother.

I should have investigated this further. Probation is what she got and mandatory Parental Classes, rightly and deservingly! I was wrong to jump to conclusions. She clearly abused the child and took it too far!

The Judge did not say that it was illegal but expressed to this particular person directly that she is never to do this again, and he was wiser for it than I was when I made my statement about him. So he did not make "spanking illegal in Texas" for Christ's Sake, but instead believes in a more moderate approach to discipline!

I think this thread is misleading because of the use of the linked article which is written in such a fashion as to make it sound like the child was uninjured and the mother was the victim.

Now I wish I could take back my Flag and what ever Stars I gave for believing this dribble. Instead, I can only retract my original stance and statements and hope others look into this further! This Thread failed in "denying ignorance" and doesn't belong in ATS in my opinion!

reply to post by destination now


Both of the post above highlight the bizarre notion that exists in our society that it is acceptable to hit a child because they need to be taught something but hitting an adult who needs to be taught something isn't acceptable.

Why is violence towards a child ok but not towards an adult??? ... and let's be clear, smacking is violence ... explain please???

We are not allowed to flog or whip criminals for breaking the law - this practice is much to barbaric for civilised society - but we allow parents to smack a child at their own discretion for breaking the parent "laws" ... it's ridiculous!!

Of course, some will say that there is a big difference between smacking a child and flogging a child, but I personally see no difference between the two acts of violence ... they are both acts of violence and have long lasting psychological consequences especially when done regularly.

Read the literature if you need it to be made completely clear. The experts in child psychology all agree ... smacking has no positive gain apart from short term compliance.

We need to take responsibility as a society and protect our children and that means outlawing smacking completely ... there can be no line drawn. Once you draw a line, people just redraw it to justify their needs

reply to post by AgentSimms


The vast majority of the societies in the world smack their children so your statement is 100% incorrect.

The reason kids are "out of control" as you see it is because they are being smacked. Violence and exposure to violence is what breeds social problems ... if you want to learn about this and deny ignorance there is plenty of literature out there for you to read.

What children need is to be shown the respect they deserve as human beings.

What they are being taught now, by adults with attitudes like you, is that respect can be demanded ... that is why they are out there demanding it!

They need to be raised with patience and love and to be taught that respect is earned not demanded.

When they learn that lesson, and they will if taught properly, then they will try to earn it and the world will be a better place.

You're only a step away from 'smacking' being outlawed in the US.

We've had this anti-smacking 'law' for a couple of years in New Zealand, and all it's achieved is the criminalization of GOOD parents, while the real violent child abusers/murderers, continue doing what they've always done!

Think of this as a prelude to the introduction of the outlawing of gun ownership, and after a couple of years of citizens without guns, guess who'll still HAVE them (apart from law enforcement)? The CRIMINALS

reply to post by Horza


You seem to have missed my point...I would use force against an adult if they stepped out onto the road in front of a car (and I would be questioning why I'd married such a doofus!)

A young child can receive a couple of smacks and still be brought up with love and respect. But seriously have you seen the effects of a lack of discipline in children these days? Our schools in the UK are falling further and further back due to the "no smacking" laws that exist. Children need boundaries and without any effective discipline these boundaries have been eroded and the end result is a bunch of kids who won't do as they're told, safe in the knowledge that they can get away with anything!

Teachers in schools cannot even touch a child now...for any reason, lest they be accused of assualt, physical or sexual, this then leads to cases like the tragedy of a child dying of an asthma attack, as it would have required the staff to hold the boy and get his inhalers from his pocket, so they decided to call his parents instead to administer the meds...too late, and okay that was an extreme case but parents and teachers everywhere are being affected by these laws and the majority of law abiding caring adults being demonised and criminalised for simply trying to do the best for kids...

In Finland it is illegal touch children. In Finland mother pulled her childrens hair and got 300 euro fine from court.

Quite stupid.

reply to post by destination now


Ok - quite simply:

The reason for outlawing smacking is based upon human rights.

A child's right to respect for their human dignity and physical integrity and to equal protection under the law

We do not balk in justifying complete protection for women, elderly people or any other popultion group from physical violence ... why do we balk at protecting our children?

Wait ... I know ... it's just a smack on the bum ... it doesn't hurt them ... it's for their own good

Some how we make this leap in fuzzy logic that smacking is not violence when the exact same type of smack, when given to a nursing home resident or a psychiatric patient, would be seen as violent abuse.

We have become so desensitised to violence from our own experiences, all most all of us are ourselves battered children or descendants of battered children, that we have a very high tolerance to what constitutes abuse.

Ask 5, 6 and 7 year olds how they feel when they are smacked ...
www.endcorporalpunishment.org...

5. What does it feel like to be smacked?
Children talked about the considerable physical hurt and emotional impact of being smacked. They did not view smacking as "trivial".

"It makes you feel sad" (8 year old girl)

"It hurts - where it hits" (8 year old boy)

"It feels like you've been stung like a bee" (6 year old girl)

"Feel ill" (6 year old boy)

"It gives you a big red mark and it stings a bit" (7 year old girl)

"It feels like you're going to cry 'cause it hurts you that much" (7 year old boy)

"Inside your body hurts" (6 year old girl)

"Upset" (7 year old boy)

"Angry" (7 year old boy)

Edit to add - the social problems with young people is much a more complicated issue than a lack of disciplining from their parents ... there is a systemic lack of understanding as to what teenagers need from us to become progressive members of society that is the root of the problem ... if it were just about giving them a good smack when they were young, then the problem would have been solved by now:

· Studies by the NSPCC suggest that 80% of UK parents have smacked their children.
· Research by the Office for National Statistics shows that 88% of people think parents should have the right to smack their children.
· According to studies, you’re more likely to smack your children if you were smacked as a child.

Source

reply to post by Horza



To be honest you are arguing with the wrong person here...I have never smacked my daughter as a punishment and the only times I did was in an effort to prevent her being hurt and gaining an understanding of why she should not run into the road, put her hand in an electrical socket or reach up to a pot on a stove! She was under 3 on all of these occasions,at an age where kids don't understand the consquences of these actions,no matter how much you it explain it to them, but can be seriously injured or even killed by doing these things, so quoting stuff to me about 5,6&7 yr olds is totally pointless as my daughter was never smacked at those ages, I used other means of punishment once she reached an age of understanding, e.g. loss of playstation, computer etc to make her understand why she should not do things (tho on saying that, my daughter is very intelligent and often just explaining why she shouldn't or for that matter should do certain things was enough to modify her behaviour!)

There have been plenty of people on this thread who do advocate smacking to children of all ages as a punishment for bad behaviour, perhaps have the debate with them as you are currently preaching to the choir so to speak...