Illuminati and Freemasons in cahoots....

Originally posted by pepsi78

This does not help you at all, the father of time is saturn

edit on 14-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)

I thought you said Saturn= Satan. You know Sat-urn Sat-an.

Seriously, you are so far off the reservation that I don't think anyone can follow your logic. If you find someone who does, you have best make them your BFF. That way, you will have someone who will listen to your rants.
I think you need a hobby, or therapy.

Who cares where it comes from as long as it shows you are wrong AGAIN. Eye of Providence, 170 years BEFORE you said it was first used. Published in a book. You know, those things with words in them?

Yes from secret sociaties, rosicrucianism and masonry.

This tells the same thing.
Source

Masons fusing with rosicrucians, and where the eye comes from, by giving this material you make my point.
With that guy that posted it, asociated with the rosicrucians and other secret sociaties.

Wrong. An eye with the word 'Provdentia' above it means only one thing.

Yes and it came from secret sociaties ?

Irrelevant denialism. Emotional pleading will not allow you to be right on this. Try something else.

I don;'t see how, masonry is highly developed from rosicrucian, as I stated the occult rodicrucian masonic establishment of the united states.

'Father Time Saturn'? Is that like the Easter Bunny-Santa? Or Frosty the Snowman-Rudolph? Oh man, your feeble flailings are fantastically funny.

From a masonic site.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...
Behind the figure of the virgin stands the form of Saturn, or Time, not counting the ringlets of her hair, but pointing upward toward the summit of the zodiacal arch. This beautiful daughter of the skies, Virgo, according to other mythological legends, is also the husband of the sun, who, when he entered the constellation Virgo, was said to espouse her.

Same image


Guess you are wrong, tough luck, what can be noted is you doing this with the intention.
You are covering it up with the intent.

Uh, no. The father of time is Time. Saturn was not even the first Roman Diety created. Nice try though attempting to reinvent mythology to hold up your soggy arguements. Pathetic.

Stop making things up. You are not telling the truth with intent.

reply to post by sprocket2cog


The eye is the eye of the anti christ. or false messiah as it is referred to in Islam. The false messiah will be one-eyed. His right eye will be like a swollen grape He will come at the end of time and they have been paving the way for him. They have been worshiping him for centuries.

reply to post by pepsi78


Pepsi, this was taken from the movie Billy Madison, regarding the response on my post-

Principal: Mr. Madison (Pepsi), what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I still do not see Saturn in the picture.

reply to post by fordrew


I have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Yes from secret sociaties, rosicrucianism and masonry.

It does not matter where it came from. Only that it was there 170 years before you said it existed. Give it up.

Yes and it came from secret sociaties ?

I do not care where it came from. Only that it was there prior to you saying it was. You were WRONG, admit it.

From a masonic site.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...
Behind the figure of the virgin stands the form of Saturn, or Time, not counting the ringlets of her hair, but pointing upward toward the summit of the zodiacal arch. This beautiful daughter of the skies, Virgo, according to other mythological legends, is also the husband of the sun, who, when he entered the constellation Virgo, was said to espouse her.

Same image

Completely different image and not relevant. One is Time counting the ringlets of her hair (as described in a previous link that you posted and what I explained to you prior to that) the other is not. Do you see one counting the ringlets of her hair and the other pointing at the sky? TWO DIFFERENT IMAGES. LEARN TO READ.

Stop making things up. You are not telling the truth with intent.

No, it is you who is constanly posting fabrications and attempting to squirm out of situtations by perfidious means. You have dragged this out for thousands of words because you shot your gob off and said that Jefferson was a Mason and used the Eye of Providence and the unfinished pyramid when he contributed to designing the Great Seal. You are so lost in conspiracy bullcrap that you can not even remember what you started on.

It does not matter where it came from. Only that it was there 170 years before you said it existed. Give it up.

I stated it existed into secret sociaties prior to that.

I do not care where it came from. Only that it was there prior to you saying it was. You were WRONG, admit it.

I don't see how this helps you, and what I have stated is that before that it existed into secret sociaties.
The symbol was called by the designers the eye of providence, as for the globe and the eye you may be right it was called providence. I don't see how this helps this.

Completely different image and not relevant. One is Time counting the ringlets of her hair (as described in a previous link that you posted and what I explained to you prior to that) the other is not. Do you see one counting the ringlets of her hair and the other pointing at the sky? TWO DIFFERENT IMAGES. LEARN TO READ.

This shows you are covering it up with intent

www.masonicdictionary.com...
Behind the figure of the virgin stands the form of Saturn, or Time, not counting the ringlets of her hair, but pointing upward toward the summit of the zodiacal arch. This beautiful daughter of the skies, Virgo, according to other mythological legends, is also the husband of the sun, who, when he entered the constellation Virgo, was said to espouse her.

No, it is you who is constanly posting fabrications and attempting to squirm out of situtations by perfidious means. You have dragged this out for thousands of words because you shot your gob off and said that Jefferson was a Mason and used the Eye of Providence and the unfinished pyramid when he contributed to designing the Great Seal. You are so lost in conspiracy bullcrap that you can not even remember what you started on.

I don't really see how they are fabrications.


The seal came from secret sociaties, masonic/rosocrucian establishment at that time.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I stated it existed into secret sociaties prior to that.

You said no such thing, stop lying:

To clear something out.
There is no name as "the eye of providence" before the making of the seal, such a concept did not exist...

Nothing about you stating it existed 'into secret sociaties(sic) prior to that'. Is there? Do you think no one can go back and check your bullcrap comments and call you out on that? Why do you think sociopathic behavior such as this acceptable in a debate? Why do you think you can lie about what you said and think others will believe it? No one can be that delusional.

I don't see how this helps you, and what I have states is that before that it existed into secret sociaties.

See above and stop trying to write recent history.

This shows you are covering it up with intent

Covering up what? I explained the first image before you even provided an explanation (which subsequently matched what I said) how is that covering up? My facts can be verified.

I don't really see how they are fabrications.

See the first line of this reponse and get back to everyone.

The seal came from secret sociaties, masonic/rosocrucian establishment at that time.

Who cares where it came from because it was there long before you said it was not.

You said no such thing, stop lying:

You need to review my posts.

There is no name as "the eye of providence" before the making of the seal, such a concept did not exist...

It was called "the eye of providence" the complete name by the designers of the seal, standing for the triangle and the eye, I was correct.

Nothing about you stating it existed 'into secret sociaties(sic) prior to that'. Is there? Do you think no one can go back and check your bullcrap comments and call you out on that? Why do you think sociopathic behavior such as this acceptable in a debate? Why do you think you can lie about what you said and think others will believe it? No one can be that delusional.

I did, I stated it comes from secret sociaties, the origin of the eye of providence. It is what I stated.

See above and stop trying to write recent history.

I'm not trying to do anything, these are facts.

Covering up what? I explained the first image before you even provided an explanation (which subsequently matched what I said) how is that covering up? My facts can be verified.

Same image with the same plillars with the same guy with the same girl, how easy is that, Same story

As for the father of time with the sicle we all know it is saturn, the sicle, the virgin, the time god saturn, stop this circus.

Who cares where it came from because it was there long before you said it was not.

It proves it is a masonic art work, just like the statue of liberty, and prior to that yes it was part of the secret sociaties.

I'm going to tell you something, in the end people will want their freedom, it is time to be free from the manipulation that has been done over and over again. Since you are part of the control freak club then it is very dificult. The gream reaper comes for you, for the deril, the big boys, for the old, for the people that lied and manipulated and controled, the deril.

The scum bags of roiality among the secret sociaties in the background that have plunged this earth in blood over and over again, and that have manipulated and controled.

Originally posted by pepsi78
You need to review my posts.

I did and posted where you said that it did not exist. I am sure you will try and backtrack on that now.

It was called "the eye of providence" the complete name by the designers of the seal, standing for the triangle and the eye, I was correct.

Yup. I was right, you are trying to backtrack. So what do you call and Eye with the word 'providentia' written above it? An Eye of Mashed Potatos?

I did, I stated it comes from secret sociaties, the origin of the eye of providence. It is what I stated.

I do not care where it comes from. Irrelevant. You said it did not exist prior to 1782. You were wrong and are trying to backtrack.

I'm not trying to do anything, these are facts.

I especially like the fact that I was able to quote you saying it did not exist prior to 1782. That is a very special fact.

Same image with the same plillars with the same guy with the same girl, how easy is that, Same story

Wrong story. There are two different images with two different explanations. Sorry, try again.

I'm going to tell you something, in the end people will want their freedom, it is time to be free from the manipulation that has been done over and over again. Since you are part of the control freak club then it is very dificult. The gream reaper comes for you, for the deril, the big boys, for the old, for the people that lied and manipulated and controled, the deril.

Oooooh. Another pepsi rant on who is going where and what is going to happen to them. I disagree, no 'deril' is coming for me since I do not belive in the 'deril'. Actually, who even knows what you are talking about?

The scum bags of roiality among the secret sociaties in the background that have plunged this earth in blood over and over again, and that have manipulated and controled.

You need to get out more. Or maybe less. One or the other.

I did and posted where you said that it did not exist. I am sure you will try and backtrack on that now.

It did not exist in Christian concept, below 17 century, it'swhat I have stated.
I stated it in the contex of the seal, below the making of the seal it did not exist as a Christian symbol, it was intoduced after the making of the seal.

Yup. I was right, you are trying to backtrack. So what do you call and Eye with the word 'providentia' written above it? An Eye of Mashed Potatos?

It comes from the secret sociaties, it's not a Christian concept, you need to review my posts.

I do not care where it comes from. Irrelevant. You said it did not exist prior to 1782. You were wrong and are trying to backtrack.

I said it did not exist past 17 century.

I especially like the fact that I was able to quote you saying it did not exist prior to 1782. That is a very special fact.

17 century.

My quote:

I proved to you the seal is masonic, what more do you want ? The notion predates the seal, and it's no eye of providence, that is made up with the seal in the 17th century

That I did not express my self in the correct manner that is a different story.
I was quoting the source that was saying that the eye of providence did not exist prior to 17th.


My source was

resources.metapress.com...

What I wanted to say was:

17 century writers makes it clear that this symbol"the eye of providence" was documented nowhere.
It was in that context, what I also stated is that the seal was called the eye of providence by the designers.
It's in the same source as you can see.

Wrong story. There are two different images with two different explanations. Sorry, try again.

It's the same characters same pillars,

[e

Originally posted by pepsi78
It did not exist in Christian concept, below 17 century, it what I have stated.

Wrong. More backtracking. You did not say that:

To clear something out.
There is no name as "the eye of providence" before the making of the seal, such a concept did not exist...

You own words, preserved for all to see, can not change their story.

However, since you need to be proven wrong again, let me help you. Here it is in the 16th Century in Christian icongraphy. Which would be before the 17th Century that you just mentioned.

Pepsi, please do not click this link if you want to have another thing you said proven wrong.

It comes from the secret sociaties, it's not a Christian concept, you need to review my posts.

Who cares where it came from. I was not debating its origins, only that you said it was not refered to as the Eye of Providence prior to 1782. But you can review the above link to be wrong once again.

I said it did not exist past 17 century.

Past or prior? Either way you are, wait for it, wait for it, WRONG.

17 century.

Yeah, 17th Century. Killer.

My quote:

I proved to you the seal is masonic, what more do you want ? The notion predates the seal, and it's no eye of providence, that is made up with the seal in the 17th century

That I did not express my self in the correct manner is a different story.
I was quoting the source that was saying that the eye of providence did not exist prior to 17th.

Your 'source' sucks. Please see above. Also, the Seal was created in the 18th Century, learn to add.

It's the same characters same pillars,

Different meaning, pay attention.

Different meaning, pay attention.

No about that image with saturn, it's the same person saturn with the sicle and the virgin.
It's the same image, I do not know what you are talking about.

I think you are doing this with intention, I can't figure any other way for this.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...
Supper at Emmaus
1525
Oil on canvas, 230 x 173 cm
Galleria degli Uffizi, Florence
Pontormo executed the canvas for the Carthusian monastery at Galluzzo where he worked between 1523 and 1527. The painting depicts the episode in which the now risen Christ, repeating the same act of breaking the bread that he had made during the Last Supper, is about to be recognized by two of his disciples. The inspiration behind the figurative concept is certainly DŸrer, from an engraving belonging to the series of the Little Passion (1511). DŸrer and northern figurative culture in general were also behind the most striking characteristics of the canvas, the close adherence to an everyday reality that has frequently induced authoritive scholars of Pontormo to interpret this extraordinary work as heralding the realistic research of Caravaggio, Vel‡zquez and Zurbar‡n. The elimination of the distance between painted event and spectator and the foreshortened contact with reality are effects created by the inclusion of portraits of people living at the time and participating in the event, and the large naked feet of the disciples in the lower part of the painting, where the heads of cats can be seen, their inquisitive gazes directed towards the onlooker. A crouching puppy can just be seen in the lower left corner of the painting. The same attention to realism is also evident in the careful representation of the group of objects forming a still life on the table.

The eye of God, painted above Christ’s head, is a later addition.

Read:

freemasonry.bcy.ca...
The eye of God, painted above Christ’s head, is a later addition.

I think you are trolling me with intent.

Here is the original picture

Guess when you get happy like that it will back fire on you, it's what happens when you enjoy it.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I think you are doing this with intention, I can't figure any other way for this.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...
The eye of God, painted above Christ’s head, is a later addition.

I guess you did not bother to read that it was added after the Council of Trent which took place in the SAME CENTURY. Stop making me do your research for you.

I think you are trolling me with intent.

No, you are because you do no homework prior to posting.

Guess when you get happy like that it will back fire on you, it's what happens when you enjoy it.

If you say so. Maybe you should double check before you try and be a smartass. I never post anything without double and sometimes triple checking it. I suggest you do the same.

Same century, deal with it, you are wrong AGAIN.

I guess you did not bother to read that it was added after the Council of Trent which took place in the SAME CENTURY. Stop making me do your research for you.

Please come up with when the eye was added, the original painting has no eyes.
Source please.

No, you are because you do no homework prior to posting.

Ironical from the truth I see you into this position.

If you say so. Maybe you should double check before you try and be a smartass. I never post anything without double and sometimes triple checking it. I suggest you do the same.

I'm not a smart ass, the picture that you talk of was made withot the eye, the eye was added god knows when.

Same century, deal with it, you are wrong AGAIN.

if you say so, I must not be in agreement with you, now where is the evidence ?

Originally posted by pepsi78
No about that image with saturn, it's the same person saturn with the sicle and the virgin.
It's the same image, I do not know what you are talking about.

So are you telling me that you can not differentiate between one image where he has his hands in her hair and the other one where he does not? Are you having vision issues?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by pepsi78
No about that image with saturn, it's the same person saturn with the sicle and the virgin.
It's the same image, I do not know what you are talking about.

So are you telling me that you can not differentiate between one image where he has his hands in her hair and the other one where he does not? Are you having vision issues?

There are the same characters, it's saturn, you mean his hand is in a different posture making him someone else ?

I understand your explenation, in one posture he is saturn father of time, in another he is just father of time without saturn, interesting analogy, this coming from the same background with the same pillars one broken, with the same characters only that he is holding his hand in a different posture.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Please come up with when the eye was added, the original painting has no eyes.
Source please.

After the Council of Trent (1545-1563).

Following the Council of Trent (1545 -1563) the eye of God seen above...was added

Ironical from the truth I see you into this position.

That sentence makes no sense. What are you talking about?

I'm not a smart ass, the picture that you talk of was made withot the eye, the eye was added god knows when.

After the Council of Trent. Stop being dense.

if you say so, I must not be in agreement with you, now where is the evidence ?

I could care less whether you want to agree or not. Check the facts and if you find otherwise then feel free to post. At this point you are wrong, AGAIN.

Dp removed