Genocide, Jews, Demonic Possession and the Amalek

reply to post by Skyfloating

Asking questions is important. I wouldnt torture and imprison Holocaust-Deniers. But we do have to keep a watchful eye on them because they same people (politically) that caused these genocides are the ones now claiming they did not happen. These people have a really cruel streak and are prone to violence. So I am not saying "imprison and torture", but I am saying keep the straitjacket ready just in case. Better safe than sorry

Really?
So who did cause the genocides?
Who started the war and who financed it?
Who gained from the war?

So many questions when you're looking at who to blame...

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Lynda101

 

Which goes to show your ignorance of the matter.

Zionist immigrants to Palestine had been arriving since the 1900's - the modern Zionist movement having coalesced at eh end of hte 19th century with teh formation of the World Zionist Organisationthe pace accelerated in the 1920's after the Balfour declaration, and they bought land from the existing Arab population who were happy enough to sell until the political backlash to increasing numbers of Jewish settlers started.

But even after that - through the 1930's there weer still Arab sellers to Jewish purchasers for land.

Zionism is now and always has been, a movement to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The modern movment is a product of late 19th century manouvrings that were initially anti-russian, but ther have been zionist movemetns for centuries befoer then - dating back to the destruction of the 2nd temple by the Romans.

Redefining it to suit your own incorrect version of history, and then using that redefinition to justify your revisionism, is jsut bad circular reasoning!

Originally posted by backinblack
Really?
So who did cause the genocides?

You dont know who caused the three big ones of the 20th Century?

Just in case it wasnt already totally obvious from History lesson at school I made sure to point out the people who caused them in the OP

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Lynda101

 

Which goes to show your ignorance of the matter.

Zionist immigrants to Palestine had been arriving since the 1900's - the modern Zionist movement having coalesced at eh end of hte 19th century with teh formation of the World Zionist Organisationthe pace accelerated in the 1920's after the Balfour declaration, and they bought land from the existing Arab population who were happy enough to sell until the political backlash to increasing numbers of Jewish settlers started.

But even after that - through the 1930's there weer still Arab sellers to Jewish purchasers for land.

Zionism is now and always has been, a movement to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The modern movment is a product of late 19th century manouvrings that were initially anti-russian, but ther have been zionist movemetns for centuries befoer then - dating back to the destruction of the 2nd temple by the Romans.

Redefining it to suit your own incorrect version of history, and then using that redefinition to justify your revisionism, is jsut bad circular reasoning!

Perhaps you missed my reference to the Settlers of 1948, finding in Israel: Muslims, Christians and Jews already living there and the Mizrahn -so certainly not the Zionist suggestion 'A land without people for a people without land'

When you take Zionism back to the destruction of the 2nd Temple time, are you referring to the Zealots, whose intimidation and murderous attacks, especially on Jews were linked to both religious and political beliefs. There is a trail through history where a certain group's "manoeuvrings" seem to bring the Amalekites out - always on those who least deserve it though.

Re your last paragraph I am wondering which 'history' you are referring to? I prefer to try to get at the facts. I suspect you might prefer Mr Netanyahu's legal, official State version which is fine, its your choice. Dabbling with rewriting ancient as well as modern history, I suspect will get the people involved bitten on the rear end. Also Doesn't God hate a liar?

Sorry about my earlier blank post my computer and I are having a domestic and I am clearly not winning yet!

reply to post by Skyfloating


You also contradict yourself in the OP, you can't have it both ways, did he want to deport the Jews or did he want to eradicate them? Pick one.

I can't even believe I got involved in this thread, arguing historical fact with a dash of religious nuttery.

Glad that government history class did it;s job for ya. Peace

Originally posted by Lynda101
Perhaps you missed my reference to the Settlers of 1948, finding in Israel: Muslims, Christians and Jews already living there and the Mizrahn -so certainly not the Zionist suggestion 'A land without people for a people without land'

That is not a Jewish zionist suggestion at all - it was coined by Christians!

it was used by Jewish zionists a miniscule number of times, and ascribed as a Zionist slogan by opponents of zionism - en.wikipedia.org...

as I said, you seem to know little

When you take Zionism back to the destruction of the 2nd Temple time, are you referring to the Zealots, whose intimidation and murderous attacks, especially on Jews were linked to both religious and political beliefs. There is a trail through history where a certain group's "manoeuvrings" seem to bring the Amalekites out - always on those who least deserve it though.

I am referring to zionism as a movement to get a Jewish homeland - it began pretty much immediately after hte 1st-2nd centure CE disapora's subsequent to Jewish revolt against roman rule, culminating in Bar Kokhba's revolt of 132-135 CE which saw a systematic attempt by the Romans to suppress judaism (including renaming Judea as "Syria Palestina") and the resultant diaspora of jews throughout the Empire and beyond - which of course also involved christianity more explicitly differentiating itself so as to avoid teh slaughter!

Re your last paragraph I am wondering which 'history' you are referring to? I prefer to try to get at the facts. I suspect you might prefer Mr Netanyahu's legal, official State version which is fine, its your choice.

I have no idea what the official israeli version of history is - I know that some of your "facts" are clearly in error tho. If the Israeli's say something I disagree with I'll have at them about that/those too when I find them - I don't give a rotund rodent's rectum who they are

Also Doesn't God hate a liar?

How can a non-existant being hate anyone?

Originally posted by Tephra
You also contradict yourself in the OP, you can't have it both ways, did he want to deport the Jews or did he want to eradicate them? Pick one.

Are you an agent-provocateur sent to make Holocaust-Deniers look like complete loons?

Transporting them to Concentration camps implies both.

I can't even believe I got involved in this thread, arguing historical fact with a dash of religious nuttery.

Except...Im not religious, as most ATS-Oldtimers know. Your head is full to the brim with misconceptions.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Lynda101
Perhaps you missed my reference to the Settlers of 1948, finding in Israel: Muslims, Christians and Jews already living there and the Mizrahn -so certainly not the Zionist suggestion 'A land without people for a people without land'

That is not a Jewish zionist suggestion at all - it was coined by Christians!

it was used by Jewish zionists a miniscule number of times, and ascribed as a Zionist slogan by opponents of zionism - en.wikipedia.org...

as I said, you seem to know little

When you take Zionism back to the destruction of the 2nd Temple time, are you referring to the Zealots, whose intimidation and murderous attacks, especially on Jews were linked to both religious and political beliefs. There is a trail through history where a certain group's "manoeuvrings" seem to bring the Amalekites out - always on those who least deserve it though.

I am referring to zionism as a movement to get a Jewish homeland - it began pretty much immediately after hte 1st-2nd centure CE disapora's subsequent to Jewish revolt against roman rule, culminating in Bar Kokhba's revolt of 132-135 CE which saw a systematic attempt by the Romans to suppress judaism (including renaming Judea as "Syria Palestina") and the resultant diaspora of jews throughout the Empire and beyond - which of course also involved christianity more explicitly differentiating itself so as to avoid teh slaughter!

Re your last paragraph I am wondering which 'history' you are referring to? I prefer to try to get at the facts. I suspect you might prefer Mr Netanyahu's legal, official State version which is fine, its your choice.

I have no idea what the official israeli version of history is - I know that some of your "facts" are clearly in error tho. If the Israeli's say something I disagree with I'll have at them about that/those too when I find them - I don't give a rotund rodent's rectum who they are

Also Doesn't God hate a liar?

How can a non-existant being hate anyone?

Your logic regarding who claimed 'A land...........people for a land' when you claim it wasn't, but they used it" is quite 'diverting'!

I note you don't enter into discussion on the majority of my points, but as you appear to be relying on Wiki as your source for information and the authority for your opinions, I'll quietly move on because Wiki as great as it is, does not match other historical literature on this subject for me.

March 30th 2011, saw a law passed in Israel which creates a single Government approved view of History dealing with the Nakba, (this describes the Arabic villages and expulsion of their residents after Israel's Declaration of Independance). I've made my point about the spectre for some of the Amalek I won't labour it.

As this thread concentrates the themes so closely linked to a specific people whose religious beliefs are at the heart of their world, I am surprised at your last comment on their God being a "non-existant being". I won't comment further with you and will cheerfully leave you with your contemplation concerning rotund rodent's re...m.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Transporting them to Concentration camps implies both.

No it doesn't. Concentration implies intent to concentrate, not to eradicate. Pick one. None of these camps were designed with the intent of a structured genocide. It's just common sense, of course, you are way too far gone to ever even look at the reality of it.

Keep spouting their lingo. I'm not a denier, I'm not an imbecile. A holocaust occurred in many ways, I'm arguing about one portion of it. And how dare you and many others disgrace the tens of millions of non Jews who died in WW2 by acting like a Jewish death was a more important one. I know it's been ingrained in you from school, that the Jews suffered the worst, but it's just not accurate.

Believing in demons isn't exactly a declaration of atheism.

I think it's sad that not more of ATS understand what these debunkers are or why threads are created, which apparently is made only to discredit and reduce the confidence of those who have knowledge of the so-called "conspiracy threads"! Shills and trolls the same thing and the best thing to do is not to feed them.
I hope they are proud of their work and their future.

Insight into how governments discredit and eliminate dissident movements special thanx to wearechangela www.youtube.com... and wearchangeny for their NOPLANER provacteur footage.. There was not alot of usable material to be found on the internet about these topics.

reply to post by Lynda101


Great post S&F!
God bless you

reply to post by Skyfloating


Sky,

Was possesion a chosen by the demon. As in 'The demon knew the future so they jumped into these men to fulfill their mission?'

or were these men found compatible and fitting, and so were "worked over" by by their personal party sages until they were sufficiently possessed?

Also, do you think that humans are like coral reefs, and demons and angels flock to them like fish in the open sea looking for shelter? and that depending on the make-up of the individual depends on what type of demons are attracted? I only ask because of the incident where jesus was supposed to have cast out multiple demons (I am Legion) out of a man and into a herd of pigs.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by louieprima
Also, I believe the Palestinians have their own "Amalekite" nemesis. The Israelites. And they are probably hoping that the dang real Amalekites would hurry up and get er done already.

According to tradition, there are new Amalekites in every epoch. Last epoch it was Nazi Germany. This epoch it is the Hamas/Hezbollah faction. Thats what some Jews secretly believe. Palestinians on the other hand, have their own ancient beliefs about the Jews. Thats why its not likely that the MidEast conflict will be resolved anytime soon.

Shockingly sad to read this, especially coming from a Moderator. Your theory here basically fantasizes (with blatant paranoia effect) that there will always be some random faction who hates the Jews, while you neglect to focus on any of the real-life reasons they were being persecuted at all.

Your argument isn't grounded in reality, and intentionally diverts away from the socio-cultural aspects of why Judaic-Genocides happen in the first place.

Good job on trying to permanently perpetuate a mythic excuse for *why* Jewish people are perpetually at odds with whatever native people they live alongside. Clearly, labeling every nation / person who has ever been at odds with anyone of Jewish descent (or is it improper to say "descent" when Judaism is a religion, and not a race?) as "Demonically Possessed" completely makes sense. (that's sarcasm, btw)

/facepalm

ps. Go ahead, call me an anti-semite. (I'm not btw) So I can remind you that European Jews are not of Middle-Eastern descent, and the term itself does not specifically point to anyone of Jewish descent in the first place, regardless of where you are pulling your terminology.

Originally posted by yourignoranceisbliss
ps. Go ahead, call me an anti-semite. (I'm not btw) So I can remind you that European Jews are not of Middle-Eastern descent, and the term itself does not specifically point to anyone of Jewish descent in the first place, regardless of where you are pulling your terminology.

Actually, there are many European Jewish population groups who've descended from specific locations throughout Europe and Eurasia who have a specific genetic marker or markers that are individually tracable to the Middle Eastern 'Semitic' areas. Sure, they are predominantly Caucasian by genetics and thus by "race" subtype, but how many modern day practicing Jews can claim pure Semitic ancestry? Show me one who can prove it! I feel thats just about impossible at this point in time and history. However, despite mixing with indigenous peoples in Europe at certain times, during certain eras of peace and non-anti-Semitism, their communities generally stay amongst themselves when marrying and having children, and thus they take on a generally unique appearance facially, despite being mostly European. The less you mix, the less variation you'll have, and the longer you maintain abstinance from mixing, the more unique that group will look, but they'll also pass more inherited diseases through the family line. There have been a few centuries throughout the past 2,000 years that Jews were welcomed in most European countries and even considered a more economically important population than the entire majority of that Kingdom or country. In most centuries as we know, they were persecuted, murdered, ran out, and forced to migrate all over the map.

This is just a small piece of Semitic origin history, there's an entire story regarding the Jews of Africa, South-Central Asia, and China. Yes, China! Kaifeng Jews represent :-x

Oh yeah, the Amalekites are not modern day Germans! Lol. The Amalekites descended from Esau, the brother of Jacob (Israel), son of Isaac, son of Abraham. The descendants of Esau all married Canaanite wives against their father's will; Canaanites looked like modern day North Sudanese, Ethiopian, Somalian, 'dark' Egyptian, etc. Thus, Esau's first offspring were half Canaanite, and looked the part. They settled the southern land inbetween the Sinai and Arabia, it was called Nabatea later on, and the rock city of Petra stands there. The descendants of Esau, collectively known as the Edomites, named this land Idumea. During the time of the Kings, from Saul to David to Solomon down the line, a sacred war was waged against the Edomites, spoken of in many places of the Old Testament. On a particular date the Edomites were surrounded and annihilated; only the women and female children were spared, all males were executed including male children. The livestock was also slain and the provisions burnt.

Thus, the only modern day descendants of Esau descend from the female side of the Edomites. All the women and girls taken captive were used as slaves and wives, many children were born over the generations. These women, girls, and children were all converted to Judaism, the males were circumsiced on day 8 as was the custom, and raised as Jews in Jewish society.

Interesting note: Black Supremacists who subscribe to Nuwaubian, Black Hebrew Israelite, Nation of Islam, and other ideaologies teach and believe that people of European descent, aka 'White' people, are descended from Esau and are thus all Edomites. They also dont understand that the Edomites were slain as described in the Bible, and cite those verses as 'proof' that they have divine providence to enslave and kill all 'White' people. That's besides the fact it is literally impossible for one small tribe of people to populate an entire continent in 2,000 years when we can't find ONE of the 12 tribes of Israel, lol. THAT's beside the fact that Europe was already populated by Barbarian tribes before Esau was even born. The worst part is.. they teach and believe that all 12 tribes of Israel came to America, that all 'Black' people, Native-American people, Carribean Islanders, and Hispanic people are the 12 tribes, and even go so far as to assign individual tribal names to 12 popular countries and ethnic groups through the Americas, lol. Their main point is that African-Americans are all ethnic-Israelites, as are the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Don't ask me how they assigned tribal names to each country, lol.