In Alabama, a Harsh Bill for Residents Here Illegally

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by JosephMatthew
People who think more immigration laws will fix anything really amaze me.

Can't you see the root issue here? You're afraid so called illegals are going to take your resources. Thus, the issue is one of scarcity, a technical problem not a political or legal one.

You are fed this false idea that there isn't enough for everyone, so we "have to" have borders, laws, money, property, police, most jobs, judges... All 300 year old thinking (at least)...

Today we have the technological means to provide resources efficiently for everyone; our social & political systems today are extremely wasteful & provably ineffective. Your being lied to about this to keep the machine of differential advantage going. Ask yourself this; when has a politician ever tangibly helped build a school or a bridge or eliminated hunger in a community?

Isn't it time we grew up as a species & demanded more from each other and effectively eliminate scarcity in our societies? If not now, then when?

We are ONE planet; why don't you do your part to evolve our species?

If you want to share your resources with people that entered here illegally, then by all means, open your home and wallet.
Don't expect others to follow suite because you say so via guilt trip.

They are here illegally and should be charged when found and deported, as per Federal Law. Since the Fed Govt would rather ignore the law, then the States have to step in and do the work for them.

This One World crap does one thing for me,

I am a US citizen, and have to follow US law. Illegals need to as well.

And further more, in the age old idea of most, if the Fed Govt would enforce the current law, then new laws would not need to be created.

For you.

The point is that the problems you are trying to fight don't actually have anything to do with immigration.

You have been manipulated by the media.

So the MSM fictitiously created the US borders and Federal Laws that govern immigration?

I just love who instead of addressing the issue, "Illegals broke federal laws crossing over", you want to focus on the resources bit.

Nothing more then a forum magician. Look at the right hand, ignore the left.

Originally posted by JosephMatthew
reply to post by macman

 

There is no such thing as illegal immigration; we are ONE planet. Effectively solve the root cause (resource scarcity), and you solve illegal immigration. Any other focus is just a waste of time.

So with that said, lets take it to the next logical step. What is yours, is mine. Please provide your address as I need a new place to live. In a few months, some family members and friends will be moving in as well.

Also, you need to stock your panty and fridge with things I like, because after all, I can't be forced to eat something that is not my normal or from my home of origin.

Originally posted by JosephMatthew
People who think more immigration laws will fix anything really amaze me.

It's not about inacting MORE laws in order to stem illegal immigration, it's about enforcing the laws we already have in place. If the Federal Government is not going to enforce their own law on the issue, it is up to states to do it for them.

Can't you see the root issue here? You're afraid so called illegals are going to take your resources. Thus, the issue is one of scarcity, a technical problem not a political or legal one.

You are fed this false idea that there isn't enough for everyone, so we "have to" have borders, laws, money, property, police, most jobs, judges... All 300 year old thinking (at least)...

It's not about being afraid of others taking resources, it is about countries being able to provide for the LEGAL citizens thereof. Borders are necessary in order for those citizens who are of like mind to reside within. If you do not like the laws governing the lands between the borders of your particular country then research which country has laws you agree more with and by all means....move. If people of ANY other country wish to come here I welcome it with open arms as long as it is done within the laws of this country. Conversely if people come here illegally then I am all for those folks having to face the consequences thereof. Let me ask you this..... are you at all comfortable with 30 million lawbreakers residing within this country?

Today we have the technological means to provide resources efficiently for everyone; our social & political systems today are extremely wasteful & provably ineffective. Your being lied to about this to keep the machine of differential advantage going. Ask yourself this; when has a politician ever tangibly helped build a school or a bridge or eliminated hunger in a community?

Please explain these technological means to provide resources for everyone? I agree that our social and political systems today are wasteful and ineffective. So lets hear what you would do to change it all?

To be honest I've never seen a politician actively take part in building schools, bridges or eliminate hungar, but nor have I seen a lot of illegal immigrants doing it either. So what is your point here as it pertains to illegals? Not quite getting it.

Isn't it time we grew up as a species & demanded more from each other and effectively eliminate scarcity in our societies? If not now, then when?

We are ONE planet; why don't you do your part to evolve our species?

Isn't it time we take off the rose colored glasses and see the reality here? It's wonderful to be an idealist and dream of a world without all the nasty bits, but reality is a brick wall. Since you seem to have an idea here of evolving our species, what does that entail, really?

reply to post by JosephMatthew

Effectively solve the root cause (resource scarcity), and you solve illegal immigration. Any other focus is just a waste of time.

People have been trying to solve resource scarcity since dawn of civilization. It is a worthy goal, and would eliminate many reasons (not all, tough) for borders. But we are not there yet.

The bottom line is, until it is solved, well-enforced immigration policy is of great importance (and I believe it would have some merits even in post-scarcity society). So first solve scarcity (and implement it in practice), THEN abolish immigration regulation. Not the other way around.

when i was married 43 years ago.my wife and i went to meet her parents in upstate new york..the topic turned to illegal aliens in texas..they had no idea what an illegal alien was..now 43 years later they are covered up with them.we have been invaded not by an army but by a population..they have taken over without even fireing a shot

Originally posted by JosephMatthew
reply to post by macman

 

Your anger & name calling only proves my point.

I can make the claims i do because they are evident in your text. From your contributions on this topic, it is very clear you were raised with values that justify murderers killing people (military), and "more for me & mine, to hell with the rest of you" (division & differential advantage).

You can say you "don't hate" all day long, you can try to draw lines in the sand, but at the end of the day, you refuse to look at the root causes here. We both know why... It is because you are afraid...

Afraid that if you did, you would lose that so-comfortable feeling you get from punishing others for not having the same values as you. Just because people like you made a law about it doesn't make it just or necessary.

I'm here to say, your attitude is killing our ability to live on our planet. Please stop.

There is no such thing as illegal immigration; we are ONE planet. Effectively solve the root cause (resource scarcity), and you solve illegal immigration. Any other focus is just a waste of time.


And since this discussion is going nowhere, am ending this with a quote:
"Being well adjusted to a profoundly sick society is no measure of health." -Krishnamurti

Know this: Even though we disagree, I love you.

LOL buddy just about every country on the planet has these laws even Mexico. Yet Mexico acts hypocritical when it comes to them. Its not hate! I do not believe as blindly as you do that every person sneaking over the border is a bean farmer just trying to make a living. If you want proof of that look at the illegal alien prison rates here in the USA. You act as if you know the reason why people are mad yet you lack the skills to effectively explain your view point. You come off as some suedo intellectual hippie yoga expert probably scared if they close the borders you will not get pot as easy. You are part of the problem. Ps i never knew being well adjusted = totally devoid of common sense. I don't mean to attack you but like so many others I'm sick and tired of people down playing this or chalking it up to racism. It is a problem and closing your eyes and wishing it away will do nothing

Good for them.

It's called illegal for a reason. I don't know about you guys, but I want SOMEONE to have information on the people working/living around me. These guys don't have any, medical or otherwise. Which opens the doors for a LOT of really bad stuff. Heck, even fruit is checked in some cases, If they aren't catching the jumpers, they aren't catching the fruits.

Pft... the government had more info on the mobsters of the early 1900's. This is rediculious.

I live in Texas, and dear gods, we've been overrun. Now, I'll let you in on a dirty little secret. I live in upper east Texas, and its pretty bad, and even worse, the human traffic is appalling. When I moved to Louisiana with my ex husband, it was the first time I had ever, EVER seen immigration officials! No joke! White cars with green lights on top and a green stripe down the side of the car. WTF? Hey, more power to any and all who can repel the invasion, I say. I'm a third generation German-American. My great grandfather had to go through Ellis Island like everybody else did. He was legal, and that was that. Why can't these folks do the same? Because it's easier to hop a fence or sell yourself for a few years to bypass a system that would make you pay taxes and demand that you adhere to the laws of this country. I know there's a backlog in the immigration system, but there's a backlog in the educational system, the hospital system, the healthcare system, and most of all, the JUSTICE system. Why? I wonder. They need to fix their own country.

You know, one thing most people DON'T know, is that illegal immigrants are able to VOTE in some localities due to lax enforcement. Also, in local elections, a handful of votes often determines the winner. This has allowed illegals to invade our political system, and politicians know it. That's why neither major party makes any significant attempts to solve the problem.

looks like it's time for the illegals to pack up and mosey out of Alabama...all I gotta say is don't come to Montana

Sometimes, I really don't get this forum at all.

In some threads you all are screaming about how the government is enacting more laws, and how the U.S. is transforming into a police state, but then when these kinds of laws that deal with immigration get passed, they get praised and received with open arms.

Where was the republican party a few years ago before immigration became a hot issue? Why are these laws only being passed right now? Why didn't we see these laws get passed in previous years? Oh, that's right because the economy wasn't tanking, and there was no reason to blame anyone for anything. But now that people are out of jobs, they want someone to blame.

I think that Alabama is going to have a hard time replacing those agricultural workers that they will lose, because from what I've witnessed Americans don't really want those kinds of jobs. Most of us are lazy and would rather be on unemployment rather than to go work in the roofing business in the middle of July.

Godspeed, to those immigrant families that will get discriminated against, I too would be crossing the border illegally if that meant I could escape the shootings and the living conditions that are present in Mexico right now. But to be honest, It's not a good time to be in America right now. Political parties are driving a wedge in between the population, in order to gain votes. Banks are getting away with stealing trillions of dollars, but yet somehow this recession must be blamed on other people that come here just looking for a better life, and in order to escape the violence, beheadings and kidnappings.

America, for the first time I can honestly say that I'm disappointed in you

If politicians cared about illegal immigration they would go after the people who employ them.

If people cared about their civil rights they would not champion the erosion of them disguised as immigration reform.

Originally posted by muse7
Sometimes, I really don't get this forum at all.

In some threads you all are screaming about how the government is enacting more laws, and how the U.S. is transforming into a police state, but then when these kinds of laws that deal with immigration get passed, they get praised and received with open arms.

Yep. Just goes to show how legitimate many people's libertarian claims actually are.

Originally posted by muse7
Sometimes, I really don't get this forum at all.

In some threads you all are screaming about how the government is enacting more laws, and how the U.S. is transforming into a police state, but then when these kinds of laws that deal with immigration get passed, they get praised and received with open arms.

Where was the republican party a few years ago before immigration became a hot issue? Why are these laws only being passed right now? Why didn't we see these laws get passed in previous years? Oh, that's right because the economy wasn't tanking, and there was no reason to blame anyone for anything. But now that people are out of jobs, they want someone to blame.

I think that Alabama is going to have a hard time replacing those agricultural workers that they will lose, because from what I've witnessed Americans don't really want those kinds of jobs. Most of us are lazy and would rather be on unemployment rather than to go work in the roofing business in the middle of July.

Godspeed, to those immigrant families that will get discriminated against, I too would be crossing the border illegally if that meant I could escape the shootings and the living conditions that are present in Mexico right now. But to be honest, It's not a good time to be in America right now. Political parties are driving a wedge in between the population, in order to gain votes. Banks are getting away with stealing trillions of dollars, but yet somehow this recession must be blamed on other people that come here just looking for a better life, and in order to escape the violence, beheadings and kidnappings.

America, for the first time I can honestly say that I'm disappointed in you

edit on 6/4/2011 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

Something is telling me both muse and the poster below him are Hispanic. they seem to be the only people self deluded enough to think there isn't a direct link between the economy and the illegal immigration situation. Its been a problem for years and we have been asking for them to do something for years. Only now are people starting to wake up and realize illegal immigration effects more then job rates it effects health care,social programs,jails,housing cost,schools,ect,ect these people are not just poor farmers they are also human traffickers,sex slave traders,rapist,murderers, social program leeches, identity thieves,gang members,drug runners. Stop acting like your a poor minority when in a lot of places you are a majority 80 percent of illegal aliens are from Mexico and south America and yet they still act like they are being victimized just look at the populations of them in our jails system

Here is why I have NO respect for illegal immigrants. My uncle's wife is from Thailand, and to get her into the country he had to hire a lawyer and wait 2 YEARS!!! I am the one who handled all of his affairs while he was overseas, and the hassle was incomprehensible. It kinda reminds me of shoplifters, because they cause prices to go up for everyone...

I say illegal immigrants should have the right not to be beaten up or hurt, but they should definitely be deported immediately. If the US would stop meddling in others' affairs overseas, maybe the money and resources would be available to secure our borders. They don't want to secure our borders, because if they did, it would have been done already.

I mean all we have is border patrol agents that are stretched so thin they aren't making a difference at all.
The same people that get deported just keep trying, over and over again, until they succeed or die. Current TV had a good documentary not too long ago on illegal immigrants crossing from Mexico. I highly recommend it.

What bothers me the most about our unsecured borders is the fact that ANYONE can get in, terrorists included. The government CLAIMS to be so worried about terrorism, yet they leave the border wide open? Ya right...But I am preaching to the choir here...At least I hope I am.

I can be very liberal at times when it comes to social issues, particularly when it comes to poverty. But I have ZERO sympathy for illegals.

Originally posted by CobraCommander
I can be very liberal at times when it comes to social issues, particularly when it comes to poverty. But I have ZERO sympathy for illegals.

edit on 4-6-2011 by CobraCommander because: (no reason given)

So you feel that eroding your own civil rights is a worthy cost for making ineffective token 'tough' actions that will do nothing to address the ROOT CAUSES of illegal immigration?

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by CobraCommander
I can be very liberal at times when it comes to social issues, particularly when it comes to poverty. But I have ZERO sympathy for illegals.

edit on 4-6-2011 by CobraCommander because: (no reason given)

So you feel that eroding your own civil rights is a worthy cost for making ineffective token 'tough' actions that will do nothing to address the ROOT CAUSES of illegal immigration?

A fine line, to be sure, and actually my biggest concern when it comes to these state immigration laws is the erosion of liberty. But I don't see anything in that article that will infringe on my rights. Often times I have has to show a birth-certificate, state ID, SS card, etc.

reply to post by CobraCommander


You honestly dont see the troubling precedent set by allowing law enforcement to require 'papers' from people at their own discretion?

At least this law appears to also be going after the employers. I just dont like the part giving law enforcement even more authority to detain and question at will.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by CobraCommander

 

You honestly dont see the troubling precedent set by allowing law enforcement to require 'papers' from people at their own discretion?

At least this law appears to also be going after the employers. I just dont like the part giving law enforcement even more authority to detain and question at will.

That much, I do agree with. The "papers please" routine by law-enforcement is already bad enough. If they stop you while driving a motor vehicle, fine, they have the right to see your license IF and only if they had PC to stop you in the first place. Immigration checkpoints, just like DWI checkpoints, are unconstitutional.

But the new provisions of this bill, such as barring illegals from college is fine by me. Heck, I wish they took it a step further and barred illegals from ALL public schools, regardless of age.