Ancient Aliens Debunked?

reply to post by starsystem3


Of course there is a past and present. Ruins don't rebuild themselves, we don't watch people who've been dead for centuries come back to life. We can date artifacts, we can radiometric date the very rocks the Earth is made of as being 4.5 billion years old.

Also, what, if anything, does your post have to do with the topic of this thread?

I watched my first episode of this program last night and I loved it .... I learnt about a tribe of people who lived in awesome underground caves ..... and then I had a good laugh because the program explained to me that they possibly lived underground because they were protecting themselves from the aliens in the skies fighting over planet earth ..... now Im one for jumping to conclusions but c'mon .... sure its a possibility but the most likely possibility was to protect themselves from wild animals or other tribes .....

I've loved watching this series since it started, but I'm not in full agreement with the "must mean extraterrestrials" explanations and arguments. You can reason that some things should not have been impossible at an assumed level of technology, but why does it necessarily mean that extraterrestrials were involved? In fact, some of the episodes have convinced me that (before the last ice age) advanced terrestrial civilizations did exist before ours. What if the melting of the ice caps (continued thawing from the last ice age) has simply hidden what is now below the surface of our oceans? What if evidence of an advanced terrestrial civilization exists, but it's under too much water pressure to be discovered at our current level of technology?

We need to forget about other planets and figure out how to completely explore our own. If that turns up nothing, THEN I may be interested in what lies under the surface of Mars or our moon. Until then, I believe that it's a waste of time and money. We need a sea floor rover that can drill, X-ray, etc. the bottom of Earth's oceans and retrieve anything unnatural for topside analysis. Without the communication delay associated with extraterrestrial rover command transmission, it should be even easier and more dynamic. Why hasn't much research been popularized for unmanned sea floor exploration? ...an odd topic for someone who lives in a desert, but still very interesting to me.

-Derek
Phoenix, AZ, USA

reply to post by DerekVS


HEY! DEREK!.....I am constantly getting sent to PHEONIX....and although I have work and family in that area....I HATE THE FREEKIN' DESERT!

Last time....we get a hand held BLACKLIGHT....and walk around the pool and shine the Blacklight at the Concrete and Stone Wall that surrounds it and.....SCORPIONS EVERYWHERE! The little transparent flesh colored ones....you know what I mean? The ones that....if you happen to be sensitive to their venom....CAN KILL YOU!

So my....family member as well as Military.....associate.....takes a Ball-Peen Hammer and starts....POP!....POP!....POP!....and picks them up and puts them in this large ziplocked type bag.....that ALREADY HAS 3 INCHES DEEP OF DEAD SCORPIONS IN IT!....and adds to the collection!?

How does this tie in to the topic.....my family member FLIES....and has flown....over EGYPT....on a VERY WELL PUBLICIZED....joint U.S./EGYPTIAN Para-Military....Para-Diplomatic.....SOMETHING OR OTHER....that happen shortly after Egypt and Israel made PEACE and BEFORE...I believe....this is from long ago memory...ANWAR SADAT was assasinated by a FACTION of his OWN PEOPLE for making peace.

While he is participating in this COMMERCIAL/MILITARY/DIPLOMATIC....ahhh...HELL....it was all about BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of U.S. AID....and trying to get the U.S. CONGRESS to go along with arms sales to a country that under NASSER....attacked Israel several times.

Anyways...while he is doing a flyover of GIZA.....now this family member is a VERY SPECIALLY TRAINED INDIVIDUAL.....he looks down at the Pyramids.....and other associated remains.....I don't think they allow jets to fly over it now for possibility of damage via sound from engines.....and he sees in his mind.....an AIRPORT.....or SPACEPORT.....but definitly something that allows a PILOT to be able to get a good grasp of depth perception and altitudes....because...anyone who has flown over DESERT SAND DUNES....OR OCEAN WAVES....it is very difficult to AVIATE....and without instrumentation.....VERY TOUGH TO LAND....if you have no perspective of size.

He also tells me...as he flies close....not directly over....but close....with a WING MAN.....and other Egyptian Jets...and for a brief moment.....instrumentation goes NUTZ...on a highly sophisticated JET as well as reported by the other participants. EVERYTHING was hush hush.....Split Infinity

The thing that really irritates me about this series is the way it starts off about, "some believe...". Then they continue through with innuendo... A bunch more, "Some believe...".

Then come all the "talking heads". You know, the ones who have all the answers, up to and including our man, George with the Weird Hair". They seem to all take their place of authority by stating how only the aliens could have done such and such, or so and so.

What's interesting to me is the amount of money these fine folks must be making for their appearances, and undying declarations of fealty toward the Ancient Astronauts and their hands in directing our lives.

It would be mulch better if they would show some appreciable and "nearly" perfect evidence, instead of saying what they are saying in such a silly manner. I think, I would rather have two items that are pretty close to these are evidence, than 30 or 40 that "some believe..." could be evidence, snake people or ant people left overs and other such "C'mon take the money and run" garbage.

reply to post by sigung86


I agree with you! Although I believe E.T. has been coming to Earth for Millenia...and there are some questions of ancient engineering that unanswerable. These guy's are in it for the MONEY! KA-CHING! LOL!
Split Infinity

Michio Kaku promoting the "Ancient Alien" rubbish on Fox News:

Yes, we should all be very curious about what this Mars Curiosity Rover is really about, as we see the MSM start giving characters like Michio, Stanton Friedman, the UFO Disclosure Project bunch and all the looney tune characters from the Ancient Aliens series more credibility, we can expect more propaganda of this type as time goes along. I am certain that this is the start of the alien hoax, and NASA's role in the hoax will be to conduct "findings" of artifacts & current or past life on Mars, Europa and other planets to legitimize the "Ancient Aliens" bull sh!t being promoted by the History Channel. Since the masses believe that NASA is the legit space program, why not use them to legitimize the idea of extraterrestrial influence in human development & its evolution?

Now if you look at videos of Devon Island you'll see that it looks a lot like NASA's supposed photos of Mars. As a matter of fact NASA has a base there because they say the environment can be used best to simulate the Martian environment. We also know that it is quite easy to realistically simulate anything with the special effects technology of today. Here is a video from NASA about the place.

The Mars studio production team:

The Devon Island Analog

William Cooper explains this coming hoax, key part is at the 22:40 mark:

I would say that anyone who is getting paid or is developing following for the purpose of a Big Payday....would mean that whatever they say is extremely suspect. Even if it is partial truth....or even some logic to it....they are getting PAID to create interest.

This payment tends to currupt even the people who are considered experts or reliable in their effort of discovery.
Split Infinity

Don't mean to kick a dead horse, but apparently this show has been renewed for a fourth season...

...WHAT ELSE CAN THEY POSSIBLY BLAME ON ANCIENT ALIENS!?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull
Alright. I'll agree that alot of this can be debunked, but what I refuse to agree on is that most of what is being talked about could have been built by our ancestors. We lack the technological capability even today to recreate the pyramids, even with modern technology. Now imagine doing it In the scorching desert, with chisels and other quite primitive tools, NOW add on to that the fact that they had to dig out giant (2-6 ton) granite blocks, drag them acrossed the desert, then somehow manage to lift it into place. And the pyramids aren't exactly short. Not even mentioning the fact that the pyramids of Giza match up PRECISELY with the stars on Orions' Belt. I don't understand how you can say that was done with those primitive tools. And look over to Puma Punku, near Machu Pichu, where you can't even fit a piece of paper between blocks. Thing's we can't even do today. I'm not gonna scream "ETS!" about everything, but in all honesty there is no way of knowing how these people made what they did. They had to have SOME KIND of outside help though, which I think is obvious.

reply to post by NotAlone7

We lack the technological capability even today to recreate the pyramids, even with modern technology.

Some people say this, others disagree, however there's no reason to agree with this assertion. While the Pyramids are an incredible feat to be sure I don't think that's a reason to count ancient human beings out. After all pyramids exist all over the place, and there are many magnificent ancient structures outside of Egypt which were clearly the work of man (for example: the Parthenon). Are we going to suggest that aliens hop-scotched across the globe during different time periods spreading the knowledge to build pyramids?

Not even mentioning the fact that the pyramids of Giza match up PRECISELY with the stars on Orions' Belt.

I've heard this claim before, particularly from Graham Hancock. Even Hancock merely suggested they line up with how Orion looked 10,000 or so years ago, which, in my mind, would point to such an alignment being a coincidence.

And look over to Puma Punku, near Machu Pichu, where you can't even fit a piece of paper between blocks.

Quite impressive indeed but not impressive enough to need aliens, gods, angels or elves to explain it. We're not dealing with something so far beyond our understanding that we need to invoke such things, we're dealing with putting stone on top of other stone.

but in all honesty there is no way of knowing how these people made what they did.

In some cases this may be true but in others archaeology has decent answers gathered from actual evidence. Certainly there are still mysteries in the past of human civilization, no argument there, but I don't think we need anything extraordinary to explain them.

Originally posted by NotAlone7
We lack the technological capability even today to recreate the pyramids, even with modern technology.

Says who?

Originally posted by NotAlone7 Not even mentioning the fact that the pyramids of Giza match up PRECISELY with the stars on Orions' Belt.

Imagine that...three points in a line look just like three other points in a line.

Originally posted by NotAlone7 but in all honesty there is no way of knowing how these people made what they did. They had to have SOME KIND of outside help though, which I think is obvious.

In other words, "I don't know, therefore aliens."

First off all the people behind these theories, the Graham Hancocks, Robert Bauvels and the Anceint Alien theorists always seem to point to the incorrect and outdated idea that the established scientific acedemia belive civilization started 6000 years ago in the fertile cresent and that science views the people living 6000+BC were primitive hunter gatherers or "cavemen", well this is completly untrue. Let me point out Historians and scientists genrally agree that to build sophisticated monuments to the scale that the ancients built them would require some form of agricultural means of production, There main reasoning for this is beacuse Massive monuments require a large and skilled workforce, to provide for this workforce sceintists argue, would be impossible to do so by means of hunter gathering and would require at least some farming. So taking this into account lets dubunk the notion that science thinks Agricultural Civilization is only 6000 years old, Gobekli Tepe, Carbon dated at around 12000 years ago is now belived by science to be one of the earliest atleast semi agricultural civilzations, there are also many examples which fall inbetween 6000 and 12000 years BC, such as Jehricho. It may suprise you to hear that Science actually supports the idea that common cultures on a local to semi local scale have been around way back as far as a 33,000 year old bead factory and meetings of upto thousounds of hunter gatherers on specific times of the year (most likely solstices) as far back as 40,000 years ago. Another attack made on scientific thought by the above theorists is that the civilzations that made Monuments such as The Pyramids, Stonehendge, Puma Punku and the countless others are so advanced that they make us look primative or the line i keep on hearing "We couldn't do this today". Well there is plenty of evidence that proves how easy it is to move the blocks of stone needed to create most of these monuments and all that is needed is basic supplies and engineering inginuty coupled with a large workforce and enough resources to support them. Why dont we do this today then? Theres a fairly simple answer to this question, its not cost effective, Infact building a monument on the scale of the pyramids and using the same materials would require an immense amount of money, whereas building it using modern methods and materials is thousounds of times cheaper.
Does science say we are far more advanced than the ancient peoples of eath, Yes, Does science say these people are primitive, No. I would belive the ancients were more advanced when i see evidence of them manipulating elements like silicon to make computer chips more powerfull than ours.

www.channel4.com... Well worth a watch if you belive that science is holding back on information regarding Ice Age Civilzations, well this documentary and other sources realating to the documentary completly rebutted this information.

A quick Quote from the Documentary, "Rudgley travels through two million years of pre-history to paint a startling portrait of our ancient ancestors who, he claims, had the potential brainpower of Einstein and bodies just as advanced as those of today."

Another great source of information of ancient technologies can be found here topdocumentaryfilms.com... really amazing series on what science considers to be Engineering and Technological feats of the anceints.

Theorists themselves & why people belive there ideas:

At first even i found this romatisied view of history very appealing, it seems to suggest there was far more at work than meets the eye and i have to say this is true however science will also admit this the difference seems to be that science simply says we don't yet know all there is to know and anything not based on evidence is pure speculation.
Misinformation at best that is propergated by theorists such as Hancock, Bauvel and the Ancient Alien crew. Even when evidence is given in support of the theorists it is full of holes, For instance, the Egyptian Old Kindom Hieroglyphs tell us that the Great pyramid was built as a tomb by Pharoh Kufu, however there evidence for it being older is based upon subjective star correlation theories, which one seems the more likley here? and the thing is this happens time and time again the scientific eveidence is almost always greater than the eveidence given by the "theorists".
What shocks me even more than the claims they make that serverly lack in eveidence is why anyone who questions this is branded as a closed minded science nutter, it seems beliviers of these fringe theories seem to see everything in much the same way as Religion, a leap of faith, infact they see science as exatly this (a leap of faith) but thing is science doesn't need a leap of faith, it has a bridge and this bridge is built on substantial, tangible and mostly irrifutible evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that certain events happend the way they did. Well personally i think its closed minded to belive that science is inherantly intent on clinging to there established views, infact i find this completly irrational, annoying and factually incorrect and this is the reason why, If sceince did not change its views we wouldn't have all the advanced technology we have today and we certaintly wouldnt be able to progress. Again i think the people who belive in these theories don't like the way in which sceince can cange, if something is proven untrue such as civalization being 8000 years old, then sceince laughs in its own face and admits this and then rewrites the history books, this i belive is the true beauty of science and why it is currenltly the best if not only way of putting the universe into perspective. This is contradicted by theorists who either simply state this as fact or provide half truth evidence in order to propagate a myth, sounds very much like what religion does. So why do they do this, well again i think it comes down to two things, people have trouble seeing the beauty in anceint history from the scientific point of veiw and people are not happy with the answer "we dont know yet" and would prefer to conjure this answer themselves.
Lastly i find that the demonization of the scientific community by these so called theorists to be a perversion of truth, i do however congratulate and thank them for sparking my initial intrest in the subject mater, ill still re-watch anceint aliens just because it is one of the few documentaries that covers sites such as gobkli tepe, which strangly without the ancient aliens series i would most likely not know about.

Concept of time: America has been built since 1609. All the current civilization and buildings are from
402 years worth of building new civilization. Seems like alot happened fast, and it is an old civilization? No... You can walk past churches and castles in England that are 1000 years old. These buildings were old when the people left for America. Ancient infact... No. You can walk past ruins in Rome, Stone Henge, Ring Forts that are 6000 years old. Seems Ancient... No. Probably not. What about the ruins in Peru, Bolivia, and Gobeki Tepi, Darenkuru, the underwater cities off India and Cuba? Are those what is considered ancient?

What was so special these last 402 years?
Civilizations rise and fall, unless you write or build in stone, nothing lasts. It all desentigrates into dust.

reply to post by Slunk91


The intent behind the Ancient Aliens series is easy to understand if you consider that this crap continues to be promoted by the History Channel because it is pushing a political agenda. The Ancient Aliens series is a prime example of the propagandist taking his stance deliberately on inconsistencies to alter the public's perception so they expect bizarre explanations behind future false flag events or hoaxes, it is skillful propaganda at work. You can call this type of propaganda a form of predictive programming. If NASA, the so called space agency or some other group comes forth with their "'findings'" or "scientific evidence" backing up the theories put forth in the Ancient Alien series, then I don't know about you, but I know the vast majority will believe properly as they've been pre-conditioned to believe.

reply to post by BlackManINC


A Piece of propaganda? I don't think so, I think its much more likely that the primary if not even soul reason for this program (from the History Channels point of view) is because it makes money, I bet the ratings are insane compared to anything remotely scientific the History Channel decides to broadcast. The History Channel selling out does not point to the men behind the curtain telling them to make this series.
And all this stuff about preconditioning makes little sense, The average person is the most educated they have ever been and most seem to hold at least some degree of contempt for "the system".
On a serious not though, if someone stupid enough to believe the crap stated in the series, quite frankly there a lost cause anyway.

reply to post by Slunk91


Reducing this all down to money is not a good enough explanation for me at this point, its an old and tired excuse used by people for almost everything that happens. Money is always only a means to an end goal, which in this case is political. The History Channel never "sold out", it was owned by the power elite to begin with, always pushing historical events with half truths, truth out of context, and in the case of the Ancient Aliens series, outright fabrications.

The most "educated" people are the most propagandized people anybody will ever meet. Having an extensive knowledge in a particular field of study does not equal being less prone to propaganda, and not believing in absolute non-sense. The point of this type of propaganda is not to get you to believe in anything, this stage of the propaganda campaign is meant to soften you up at the unconscious level for the main event. The opinion forming stage of this propaganda campaign comes later as I said in my previous post, called direct propaganda, which is based on the psychological levers they already conditioned into you through pre-propaganda, which is what the Ancient Aliens series is as well as the numerous movies that have been coming out lately with the same Ancient Alien Astronaut theme to it, Stargate being one of the first. In order for propaganda to be truly effective, all avenues of mass media must be used, since they all bring different results within the individual, but all desired results none the less. Here is what Jacques Elull has to say about this in his book titled “Propaganda: The Formation of Men’s Attitudes”.

"Thus all modern propaganda profits from the structure of the mass, but exploits the individuals need for self-affirmation; and the two actions must be conducted jointly, simultaneously. Of course this operation is greatly facilitated by the existence of the modern mass media of communication, which have precisely this remarkable effect of reaching the whole all at once, and yet reaching each one in that crowd. Readers of the evening paper, radio listeners, movie or TV viewers certainly constitute a mass assembled at one point. These individuals are moved by the same motives, receive the same impulses and impressions, find themselves focused on the same centers of interests, experience the same feelings, have generally the same order of reactions and ideas, participate in the same myths-and all this at the same time: what we have is really a psychological, if not a biological mass. And the individuals in it are modified by this existence, even if they do not know it. Yet each one is alone-the newspaper reader, the radio listener. He therefore feels himself individually concerned as a person, as a participant. The movie spectator also is alone, though elbow to elbow with his neighbors; he still is, because of the darkness and the hypnotic attraction of the screen, perfectly alone. This is the situation of the "lonely crowd", or of isolation in the mass, which is a natural product of present-day society and which is both used and deepened by the mass media. The most favorable moment to seize a man and influence him is when he is alone in the mass: it is at this point that propaganda can be most effective.” – Pgs. 8-9


”Finally, the propagandist must use not only all of the instruments, but also different forms of propaganda, though there is a present tendency to combine them. Direct propaganda, aimed at modifying opinions and attitudes, must be preceded by propaganda that is sociological in character, slow, general, seeking to create a climate, an attitude of favorable preliminary actions. No direct propaganda can be effective without pre-propaganda, which, without direct or noticeable aggression, is limited to creating ambiguities, reducing prejudices, and spreading images, apparently without purpose. The spectator will be much more disposed to believe in the grandeur of France when he has seen a dozen films on French petroleum, railroads, or jetliners. The ground must be sociologically prepared before one can proceed to direct propaganda. Sociological propaganda can be compared to plowing, direct propaganda to sowing; you cannot do the one without doing the other first. Both techniques must be used. For sociological propaganda alone will never induce an individual to change his actions. It leaves him at the level of his everyday actions, and will not lead him to make decisions. Propaganda of the word and propaganda of the dead are complementary. Talk must correspond to something visible; the visible, active element must be explained by talk. Oral or written propaganda, which plays on opinions and sentiments, must be reinforced by propaganda of action, which produces new attitudes and thus joins the individual firmly to a certain movement. Here again, you cannot have one without the other.”- Pg.15

edit on 7-1-2012 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-1-2012 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)

If the majority of the world has the critical thinking skills of a 4 year old then yes this would be very effective propaganda, to suggest the Ancient Alien Series is part of an undercover NWO plot to desensitise to ridiculous ideas is very far out there. For a start there are to many rich people with too many different Agendas to all be working for the same goal. Money was the prime factor, not just for the makers of the documentary but the people who starred in it. Notice how every time a talking head came out there latest book was in quotation marks underneath there name, these people are either stupid (I don't believe this is the case for most of them) or know there proper-gating untruths but at the end of the day its there lively hood and I bet there making fortunes from there appearances.
Ancient Aliens was made plain and simply because there's a market for it.

Yes I agree that many people have a warped perception of the world in general, however rebellion has always been in fashion and most people hold a degree of contempt for "the System".

Originally posted by Slunk91
If the majority of the world has the critical thinking skills of a 4 year old then yes this would be very effective propaganda, to suggest the Ancient Alien Series is part of an undercover NWO plot to desensitise to ridiculous ideas is very far out there. For a start there are to many rich people with too many different Agendas to all be working for the same goal. Money was the prime factor, not just for the makers of the documentary but the people who starred in it. Notice how every time a talking head came out there latest book was in quotation marks underneath there name, these people are either stupid (I don't believe this is the case for most of them) or know there proper-gating untruths but at the end of the day its there lively hood and I bet there making fortunes from there appearances.
Ancient Aliens was made plain and simply because there's a market for it.

If the majority of the world had the critical thinking skills of a true individual who haven't lost their ability to reason for themselves without the media doing it for them, then yes, 9/11, the fake Gulf of Tonkin Incident, and other covert operations of mass persuasion with ridiculous stories would have failed. But of course, before 9/11 and the farcical War on Terror, we can thank the decades long pre-propaganda campaign with Hollywood at the forefront of it that portrayed Arabs, specifically those in the Middle East mostly as Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. The documentary below goes through some of these movies up until about 2004 that ever had Arabs in them or even spoke of them, and its all pretty much the same rubbish, often directly government funded at that, even the scripts are authorized by government for a lot of these movies.

REEL BAD ARABS - How Hollywood Villifies a People:

Effective propaganda doesn't speak to the intellect of the individual, it surpasses the intellectual realm and goes directly to the unconscious, to get them to react to certain stimuli or events in the desired fashion when the time comes.