Ancient Aliens Debunked?

Originally posted by Imtor


On one of these Season 3 episodes of ufo hunters, Joe McMoneagle claims to have seen strange objects and creatures and a minute later he says he cannot talk about AUTEC although knowing what they do there.

Joe McMoneagle was one of the remote viewers that the CIA first used to "spy" on other countries and to locate hostages.
I personally think that some humans perhaps do have psychic abilities...........If you ever watched "Stan Lee's Superhumans" Tv series then you will see some quite extraordinary individuals perform extraordinary tasks......and when tested with doctors and labs usually there is something measurable that marks them as being " different" to "normal" human beings........my speculation would be gene mutation.......that allows then to do things that others can't. (sounds a bit like the X men !)

The trouble with Joe McMoneagle is that we have no real reliable way of evaluating how accurate he was when working for the CIA......some report an accuracy rate of 85% whilst others as low as 12%.
Joe McMenoeagle has also made a number of public date based"predictions" which haven't turn out to be accurate.
It is also quite telling that the CIA closed down it's Remote Viewing program........not necessarily because they didn't get some good "hits".........but because they had too much useless or inaccurate information to wade through.
Now if Joe McMenoeagle was a really accurate viewer then how come he hasn't taken up the Randi million dollar challenge?

So whilst Joe McMenoeagle may have some psychic ability......my guess is that a fair part of the time he is inaccurate.
So what he says regarding "aliens" or the "origins of man" have to be viewed with a healthy dose of scepticism.

He may be misleading with his 'seen ET beings there', if he'd been told to not reveal that there are aliens around, he wouldn't have told it, it may turn out he said it to satisfy those ufologists' questions which could mean a coverup could be made using the alien stories. I can't say much about him other than that but since he revealed that he's seen alien beings and didnt want to talk about the specific work in AUTEC then he may be lying about seeing such beings, that info wouldnt be presented by him if that were the case

Originally posted by Logical one

Joe McMoneagle was one of the remote viewers that the CIA first used to "spy" on other countries and to locate hostages.

Haha yes.. like The Men that Stare at Goats.. gee, I can't believe what they do with my tax dollars

I personally think that some humans perhaps do have psychic abilities...........If you ever watched "Stan Lee's Superhumans" Tv series then you will see some quite extraordinary individuals perform extraordinary tasks......and when tested with doctors and labs usually there is something measurable that marks them as being " different" to "normal" human beings........my speculation would be gene mutation.......that allows then to do things that others can't. (sounds a bit like the X men !)

yes, seen a few of those, and I agree, there are some people out there that on a PHYSICAL level can do extraordinary things. Not convinced on the whole PSYCHIC thing though.

Originally posted by nv4711

yes, seen a few of those, and I agree, there are some people out there that on a PHYSICAL level can do extraordinary things. Not convinced on the whole PSYCHIC thing though.

If you read some of my previous post on this and other subjects you'll know that I am sceptical on most things "paranormal" or ET related.

That said though I am pretty impressed with one guy called Christopher Robinson who I first saw on a documentary called "Premonition Man"
He took part in what was called the "Arizona Experiment" and appeared to be remarkably accurate.
What's impressive is that he also has documented evidence to show that the Police in UK have used his services on a number of their cases.
He actually did appear on the Stan Lee's Superhuman's " show.........although the little test they did for Mr Robinson was to my eyes inconclusive.
Could all his premonitions in his dreams be pure coincidence?..........perhaps.......but to my eyes Robinson remains a complete enigma.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
a Photon....light....that travels at aprox. 186,300mps....obtains a MASS....a micro-mass but a mass none the less when encountering any gravity well and if that well is a Blackhole or Singularity of one dimentionality....a particle of light will obtain a much larger mass.

Given that a photon's mass is utterly dependent on its frequency (energy,) I think you have that last bit wrong.

That is, a gravity well has nothing to do with it, other than altering the frequency of the photon (for some observers, depending on the observer's reference frame.)

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
a Photon....light....that travels at aprox. 186,300mps....obtains a MASS....a micro-mass but a mass none the less when encountering any gravity well and if that well is a Blackhole or Singularity of one dimentionality....a particle of light will obtain a much larger mass.

Given that a photon's mass is utterly dependent on its frequency (energy,) I think you have that last bit wrong.

That is, a gravity well has nothing to do with it, other than altering the frequency of the photon (for some observers, depending on the observer's reference frame.)

Harte

Well, Photons don't really have mass, but they have momentum (Einstein, again ;-)). Photons also don't "acquire" mass when under the influence of a gravitational field (otherwise photons would logically also obtain mass from Earth's gravitational field). Strong gravitational fields, especially from supermassive objects like a black hole, bend space-time. The photon responds to this curvature in space-time, and not to the gravitational field.
This is also why a photon (light) cannot escape from a black hole, it's not because it is "held back" by the massive gravitation, but because the gravitational field on the surface of the black hole is so strong that the path of the photon is bent so extremely inward that it returns to the black hole itself.

Of course, I could also just have said "Harte is correct".. haha...but why miss a chance to be a smarta** :-))

reply to post by nv4711


i agree that it is very similar to a religion, but it is more likely than any religion

Originally posted by nv4711

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
As far as Gravitic Drives.....matter and Energy are interchangable.....if you generate and direct enough energy....it will FOOL the Universe into thinking it is a large mass and a singularity will occcur. Fusion will not generate enough energy for this action so use of MATTER/ANTI-MATTER reaction is imparitive.

Problem is containment. Any type of magnetic containment will cause a very big boom. This is where an element not currently on the periodic table comes into play.

You know what the strong force and weak forces are of course....now imagine an element that by it's nature...creates a STRONG FORCE OF GRAVITATION. I know...contradiction in terms....but this strong force of gravity allows containment via created geometric one dimentionality....thus...there is no concern for any energy or matter to interact with a controlled matter/antimatter reaction. Split Infinity

That was quite a read with my morning coffee. Frankly, you're starting to sound a little Bob Lazar'ish.... but anyways. Can you show me at least 1 mathematical equation for anything that you're saying here? And if a singularity occurs, as you say, how do you keep the universe from collapsing into this singularity...a singularity would have infinite mass.... same for this magical element that "creates a strong force of gravity"... Gravity is Gravity... you can't cherry pick what is being attracted by it, so everything buzzing around within the reach of that gravity field ... and this artificially created singularity,.. will inevitibly be attracted by this gravitational force, not just the space ship. And you're hinting at it, but where is all that energy coming from to do all these things? That's regardless of how you produce the energy, even if you have a controlled matter/antimatter thingy, the energy requirements would probably exceed the amount of available matter in the universe. Not to mention that to "fabricate" the antimatter, you have to put in an equal amount of energy or even more to produce it - so best case, your energy gain is zero...?

Well, as I said, if that thing exists, I'd love to see a few..or at least one equation...
One more thing, if ET is out there doing all these things... how come we haven't observed any phenomena in our solar system that would at least remotely match these things. What I mean is.. if there are singularities created at will on a relatively regular basis, I'm pretty sure some Astrophysicist somewhere would have noticed the sudden occurrence of such a monstrous gravitational field.

I have to commend you. Of all the people I have talked to on this board....you have been intelligent in your questions as well as any statements that are in contradiction to another post or poster.

I find this EXTREMELY REFRESHING!

I have never really liked delving into the math of a concept that by the concepts nature...cannot be represented by the math that we currently understand. Some people call this being lazy....I call it being REALISTIC and a way for me to have more time drinking a beer and talking to a good woman than.....wasting time trying to find a formula or processs ENDLESS CALCULATIONS to figure out something....we can't yet figure out.

For us to figure out how the UFT works...we have to stop looking at the QUANTUM world and the MACRO Universe...as the the only important parameters of the system. After all....THAT IS THE KEY WORD OF THE MYSTERY....SYSTEM.

Both the Quantum and the Macro....behave in ways that are dictated by a MUCH LARGER SYSTEM....that we have only the tiniest glimpse of. So what do we do? We assign a letter or a figure or a....and this one pisses me off the most....a FORMULA.....to represent what we do not know....as if we were in 5th grade again....learning ALGEBRA....for the first time.

The reason we have been unable to figure it out is....not only are there pieces....lots of pieces....to the puzzle missing or by our standards....undetectable......but even if someone gave us these pieces....we would not understand how to put them together....sort of like a color blind person being asked to describe which colors are prevelent at the top of a rainbow and what is the next color down and what is the next.

A more apt description would be a human trying to put together a 100 plus dimentional object construct of energy...mass....and other things we have no classification for yet....visually.

Again....the key word is the SYSTEM.....and understanding that our Universe....and Multiple Convergent Universal states within the SYSTEM....is but a small part of a MULTIVERSAL SYSTEM.....that is connection to ALL our physical rules. Split Infinity

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
a Photon....light....that travels at aprox. 186,300mps....obtains a MASS....a micro-mass but a mass none the less when encountering any gravity well and if that well is a Blackhole or Singularity of one dimentionality....a particle of light will obtain a much larger mass.

Given that a photon's mass is utterly dependent on its frequency (energy,) I think you have that last bit wrong.

That is, a gravity well has nothing to do with it, other than altering the frequency of the photon (for some observers, depending on the observer's reference frame.)

Harte

For all intensive calculations and experimentation....acadamia would proclaim your statement correct. However...they are WRONG.

Have we all noticed that despite building large and expensive Particle Accelerators....we have yet to find evidence of a GRAVITON or Higgs_bosson....pardon my spelling? We have not found the supposed...GOD PARTICLE? That is because they don't exist.

What do we know or at the very least...can detect? Any thing that has mass....creates a warpeture in the Space/Time continuum. The greater the mass....the greater the curvature. We also notice that this effect which we call GRAVITY....is a geometric expression of ONE DIMENTIONALITY.

NOTHING that we currently know to exist....can escape GRAVITIES EFFECT. This also includes Light...exotic particles ....etc. If this curvature effects everything including light....then a PHOTON must also obtain a micro mass by it's effect....and also....obtain infinite mass just as say a neutron will once falling into a Blackhole.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by DaveNorris
reply to post by nv4711

 

i agree that it is very similar to a religion, but it is more likely than any religion

Dave, the probabilities might be just as bleak as they are for a given religion. In general, the probability goes down, the more qualifiers you add to a given problem. Probability and statistics are the favorite subject of creationists, as it seemingly allows them to challenge evolution. Perhaps you’ve heard Fred Hoyle’s “Tornado in the junk yard, assembling a Jumbo jet” comparison, which by the way is a specious sound bite.

Anyways, if you want to get an idea of the probability that the AA Hypothesis is true, highly likely, somewhat likely or, in comparison more likely than i.e. a given religion you can, without even using a calculator get an idea by looking at all the qualifiers you have to bring in. Now, of course, the important part is, you have to be as neutral as you can to come to a reasonably correct result.
For example, if you wanted to calculate the probs of “God exists” you've got 50% (Because the only other option is God does not exist) As soon as you introduce “God exist and he is omnipotent” the probs go down. Next, "God exist, he is omnipotent and he created Man”…add ."and he parted the red sea”… and so on, the probs go way down.
Now look at the AA theory. The probs of life in the Universe are very high, perhaps close to 100% (Note that it's not 50% like the God example, because we have much more information and for the very fact that we exist). Now you need higher life forms, intelligent life, intelligent life that explores space, intelligent life exploring space and being able to cross the universe… and picked Earth to visit (out of billions of other options)….and built the pyramids…and gave Pre-columbians little golden air plane models…and changed the DNA of early man…and…and…and..
I guess you see where this is going. Will your result be Zero? No, I guess not, but it will be incredibly small… but now compare your probability to “The Egyptian people had skilled mathematicians, architects and builders, and built the pyramids”…
So, I’m not sure how the probs for AA vs. religion stack up, but I have a good idea how the probs of AA vs. Humans are.

4711...also...in response to your statement that there would not be posssible to generate enough energy or enough material....matter or antimatter....in the Universe to produce the energy necessary to represent mass to adequately FOLD SPACE....you are asssuming that such energy generation is occuring in ONE UNIVERSAL STATE.

AS I have posted earlier....the out of town guy's have an understanding of a Massive if not Infinite SYSTEM....where if properly accessed....created reactions are occuring in MANY divergent realities. Without the ability to access the SYSTEM....both Folding Space....and Navigation of it would not be possible.

Split Infinity

reply to post by nv4711


Everytime someone asks me if I believe in GOD....I say....YES! Someone is definitly out to get me!

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Well, I've got to admit.. you stick to your guns. And you sure as he** don't like Math. Of course I'm stunned, that apparently everybody, from Euclid to Einstein was dead wrong.

I'm not even sure now where to start, but let's just pick the Photon thing again. I hope you would agree that our Sun has a large mass and therefore a respectable gravitational field. If you were correct, all the photons (Sunlight) from the Sun would logically obtain a certain amount of mass from this gravitational field....ummm...but they don't. The photons travel in exactly the time described by Einstein from the surface of the sun to Earth, which they wouldn't if they had even the tiniest mass since this mass would slow them down and light itself would not be able to reach light speed. Of course, the same is true for any light from any star that we can observe from Earth.

Well.. for the rest.. I can't say anything because I have no clue what you're talking about, you're all over the place throwing a lot of funny physics around. If the Aliens "fold space" as effortlessly as we fold the Sunday Times, well, ok.... nobody has observed it even so we can see the tiniest wobble in a far away star, but I suppose immense gravitational forces and space folding in our own solar system escapes our vigilant Astronomers and Physicists eyes.

I know that this topic went a bit awry but in a sense....not really. If you have the ability to fold space or travel using the gravitic principle quality of ONE DIMENTIONALITY.....it means not only do you have the ability to go ANYWHERE....but also.....ANY TIME!

If our out of town guy's did visit us in the past.....and I find this HIGHLY PROBABLE.....then they could be visiting our past from any specific time they wish.

A Gravitic Drives abilities are not just limited to getting from here to there.....but also has the capacity to travel from NOW TO THEN....or THEN TO NOW.

Matter cannot exist without multiple dimentional states. Some folks would say for an ATOM to exist....you would need at least a minimum of 4 Dimentions....those being length, width, depth and time. The REALITY is that for Matter to exist....and remember....MATTER....or a base construct of it...like an ATOM....is comprized of many particles....some like Protons and Neutrons....that people associate with tangibility of mass....and particles such as Electrons....which makes an ATOM a combination of both Matter and ENERGY.....but in REALITY.....for MATTER and ENERGY to exist....MULTIPLE DIMENTIONAL STATES must exist as well as Multiple Universal states of reality.

Einstien and his friends would argue if TIME really existed....one notable example in favor of TIME to not exist was if two people were 20 ft apart....and one started traveling toward the other by traveling half the distance between them every time that person moved....they would never meet....since there would always remain half of a distance....reguardless of how tiny it became.

But they also admitted that without TIME....there could be no movement of either Matter or Energy or even Space. Thus....TIME became an enigma.

But one thing is for certain.....reguardless of how many geometric dimentional states exist....each state is partialy governed or effected by all the others....thus....ONE DIMENTIONALITY....or SINGULARITY....is a state where there is no distance....or time....or ANYTHING other than one point. Since it is part of our universal dimentionality....to acesss it means.....all points of position....are the same point of position....and all linear points in time....are the same point in time.

If E.T. did visit our ancient people....they very well could have started their travel today....or yesturday....or a month or years from now. Then again.....it could have very well been us visiting ourselves from the distant future.
Split Infinity

Originally posted by nv4711
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Well, I've got to admit.. you stick to your guns. And you sure as he** don't like Math. Of course I'm stunned, that apparently everybody, from Euclid to Einstein was dead wrong.

I'm not even sure now where to start, but let's just pick the Photon thing again. I hope you would agree that our Sun has a large mass and therefore a respectable gravitational field. If you were correct, all the photons (Sunlight) from the Sun would logically obtain a certain amount of mass from this gravitational field....ummm...but they don't. The photons travel in exactly the time described by Einstein from the surface of the sun to Earth, which they wouldn't if they had even the tiniest mass since this mass would slow them down and light itself would not be able to reach light speed. Of course, the same is true for any light from any star that we can observe from Earth.

I think I can clear this up by making this next statement....although I am reluctant to do so as I know the $#!@ Storm it will start....but here it goes anyway. Back in 2 min. Split Infinity

Well.. for the rest.. I can't say anything because I have no clue what you're talking about, you're all over the place throwing a lot of funny physics around. If the Aliens "fold space" as effortlessly as we fold the Sunday Times, well, ok.... nobody has observed it even so we can see the tiniest wobble in a far away star, but I suppose immense gravitational forces and space folding in our own solar system escapes our vigilant Astronomers and Physicists eyes.

Sorry....my reply got lost somehow....give me a few to repost. Split Infinity

Continued....it is not that everyone is wrong.....their theories and formulas work just fine....TO A POINT. If all of our concepts and ideas were so dead on right.....we sure as hell would not be stumbling in the dark trying to figure out the Unified Field Theory.

I am hesitant to post this next statement because I know the effect it will have but here we go anyway.....back in a sec. Split Infinity

Continued....Kitty takes precedence!.....The particles we know of that make up Matter and Energy.....and the sub-particles they are constructed from....behave in a predictable way in our Universal Reality....and ths we call PHYSICS.

The problem with that is....it only works on the Macro level....and we have not a clue....or that is the official line....what the hell is going on in the QUANTUM level....and ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU DIFFERENT IS LYING!

Except these two guys I know.

As we look at very real aspects of our Universe....things like Blackholes and Quazars and Universal Expansion and Accelleration....never mind what the hell is Dark Matter and Darl Energy....all our time and tested therums and formulas and.....this is supposed to happens....get thrown out the window.

Bottom line.....WE DON'T KNOW $#!% about what is really going on!

KITTY issues again! Back in a few. Split Infinity

I swear to GOD....a CAT controls it's master...not the other way around!

Anyway....PHOTONS.....186,300 miles per second approx. Right? Now....we find out Neutrinos....can break this supposed ultimate velocity. Then....well actually a while back....we find out Photons will actually slow down if caught up in a specificly cut gemstone matrix.

We also....awhile back...discover that Photons actually have a MICRO-MASS. Now how could that be possible? By theory....anything that has mass....as it accellerates....inccreases in mass. A Photon having a mass....should approach infine mass at the velocity it travels....but it does not correct?

Please reply to this before i go on. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Well, at least you like cats, so you can't be a bad person :-)

Can you point me somewhere I can read about the photons micro mass? I know about the measurements of experimental upper limits of a photons mass, if it had any. Meaning these upper limits only say "If a Photon had mass, then this would be the maximum". These numbers are not "a photons mass"...
You have a link to that gemstone thingy?

You sure you're considering that a photon has dual properties (particle and wave properties)..? The current definition assigns every object just one mass, an invariant quantity that does not depend on velocity. Under this definition, mass is proportional to the total energy, Eo, of the object at rest. A Photon has zero rest mass, however, a particle like a photon is never at rest and always moves at the speed of light; thus it is massless.

As far as the Neutrinos...hmm.. a little careful here.. I know about experiments recently published by an institute in Italy. Together with CERN (I don't recall the exact parameters of the experiment now) they measured that Neutrinos transmitted from CERN, seemed to arrive something like a 60th billionth of a second too "early", hence having broken the speed of light barrier. They did that 15,000 times with the same results. However, they're far from claiming that Neutrinos do travel faster than light. Simplest explanation is measurement or setup error, the "funkiest" is that the Neutrinos take an inter-dimensional shortcut (how is unclear) and therefore appear to be faster than light. Neutrinos are inherently difficult to measure and errors are very easily introduced. Fermilabs did a similar test years ago and also saw some similar results but does also not believe that the Neutrinos broke the speed barrier. Anyways, the Italians have asked the scientific community to help interpret the results, that can take a few more years.