Ancient Aliens Debunked?

Originally posted by DaveNorris
debunked or not, it still makes more sence to me than any religion

Except that the "Aliens on Earth" (Ancient or now) hypothesis (and I use the term generously here) bears all the hallmarks of a "religion".

a) It is purely faith based
b) It presents a creation myth - the numero uno of Religion
c) The faithful see miracles (UFOs, Aliens) in things that are easily explained by nature
d) The validity of the Alien on Earth argument is "proven" by "scripture" which contents are "proven" by other "scripture"
e) It's lead by "high priests" (Daeniken et al, Sitchin, Berlitz...) preaching the "gospel"
f) It defends its arguments through constant repetition of the dogma, showing no evolution of the theory itself.

I could go on, but I guess you get the picture.....

Originally posted by nv4711
a) It is purely faith based

b) It presents a creation myth - the numero uno of Religion

Wrong. Comes from clues and incidents that people have had and still have, classified documents, the proof of visitation despite not solid, is times more plausible than what religion offers...

c) The faithful see miracles (UFOs, Aliens) in things that are easily explained by nature

Oh really? Miracles? So everyone's an idiot, no unknown aircraft exist, all who did documents are idiots and money makers, funny clueless guy

d) The validity of the Alien on Earth argument is "proven" by "scripture" which contents are "proven" by other "scripture"

Some are not quite Biblical or unproven as the Bible but this is what makes it not like a full valid proof

e) It's lead by "high priests" (Daeniken et al, Sitchin, Berlitz...) preaching the "gospel"
f) It defends its arguments through constant repetition of the dogma, showing no evolution of the theory itself.

There is evolution, that does not mean there is ONLY evolution... funny how those who think something is either true or false, no partially truem partiall false...

Originally posted by Imtor

Originally posted by nv4711
a) It is purely faith based

b) It presents a creation myth - the numero uno of Religion

Wrong. Comes from clues and incidents that people have had and still have, classified documents, the proof of visitation despite not solid, is times more plausible than what religion offers...

c) The faithful see miracles (UFOs, Aliens) in things that are easily explained by nature

Oh really? Miracles? So everyone's an idiot, no unknown aircraft exist, all who did documents are idiots and money makers, funny clueless guy

d) The validity of the Alien on Earth argument is "proven" by "scripture" which contents are "proven" by other "scripture"

Some are not quite Biblical or unproven as the Bible but this is what makes it not like a full valid proof

e) It's lead by "high priests" (Daeniken et al, Sitchin, Berlitz...) preaching the "gospel"
f) It defends its arguments through constant repetition of the dogma, showing no evolution of the theory itself.

There is evolution, that does not mean there is ONLY evolution... funny how those who think something is either true or false, no partially truem partiall false...

Relax Dude...didn't want to insult your "religious" feelings...

To a) Creation Myth - let me add "Promise of Salvation"... forgot about that one and of course it belongs to the Creation Myth. Case in point: Annunaki intervened and created modern man - the creation myth... They will return and take us back to our star home thingy... the Promise of Salvation.

There is no proof of visitation. There is only highly contrived "evidence" in the form of artifacts, taken out of context and most often a made up story. The arguments presented are illogical to the highest degree... The "Rocket Man" from Palenque... riding a "Space Vehicle" that is, so it is claimed, powered by a rocket motor... So the Aliens came with rocket powered space ships... pretty lame... and of course impossible given the distances of interstellar travel. Uh..dang..forgot the wormholes.. yeah..if they can create wormholes at will, then they definitely don't have rocket engines. And of course, the depicted "rocket" would be way to small to escape Earths gravity...

And yes..I'm a funny guy..thanks :-)

And yes, many make money but that I don't care about, if you want to give them your money, be my guest. I recommend the Andromeda Council of the 12 or so, not sure it's tax deductible though :-)

I don't exactly understand your other remarks.. no, I'm not trying to be mean.. I'm just not clear what you're saying.....but I'll be happy to respond if you can elaborate.

Your post is full of crap, you are making presumptions...

'Religious beliefs' hahah I do not BELIEVE as some do, nor do I call ALL people EVER saw 'Natural phenomen; However you deny UFOs that of ANY origin, you are so clueless that it is dumbness

Originally posted by Imtor
Your post is full of crap, you are making presumptions...

'Religious beliefs' hahah I do not BELIEVE as some do, nor do I call ALL people EVER saw 'Natural phenomen; However you deny UFOs that of ANY origin, you are so clueless that it is dumbness

yeah yeah...sure.. can you point out the crap and offer a rebuttal, I mean other than the whining of a 12 year old?... Uh... yeah.. I didn't think so....

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by paranoidNcurious
-why did ppl throught the ancient world all have similar believes, mythology, and architecture.mayan and egymtian pyrimids? for what reason would they build mass temples quite similar with no knowledge of each other. and same styles.

Why pyramids.......well they do point skywards so it fits in with structures of worship or burial ceremonies.......and these ancient cultures could be simply replicating what they saw in nature.ie mountains.
So in my opinion ET need not be responsible.

How many different temple designs can there be, anyway? The most obvious is to build a kind of hump or mound, and that easily becomes a kind of pyramid. Otherwise, you build a square or rectangular building with columns and line it up with the North Pole or some astronomical event of interest. One thing all ancient cultures had was a pretty clear view of the same night sky. That's naturally going to be influential.

Originally posted by nv4711

Except that the "Aliens on Earth" (Ancient or now) hypothesis (and I use the term generously here) bears all the hallmarks of a "religion".

a) It is purely faith based

nope, not even close (outside of the 110% "believers" camp)

b) It presents a creation myth - the numero uno of Religion

huh? only some of the ET belief systems include this...

c) The faithful see miracles (UFOs, Aliens) in things that are easily explained by nature

If this phenomenon was easily explained by nature we wouldn't be here still studying it after 60+ years. Studied by men with minds far superior to mine and yours I'm willing to bet...

d) The validity of the Alien on Earth argument is "proven" by "scripture" which contents are "proven" by other "scripture"

Once again your broad brushing, using some theories as the be-all, know-all to everything...

e) It's lead by "high priests" (Daeniken et al, Sitchin, Berlitz...) preaching the "gospel"

And again you do it. Not all theories and "belief systems" are based on a few men's thoughts, check out Vallee or Keel for a quick diversion from your set beliefs here...

f) It defends its arguments through constant repetition of the dogma, showing no evolution of the theory itself.

Tons of "evolution" on this subject. Once again I draw your attention to the likes of Vallee and others. Even Hynek's view of the ETH changed over time...

I could go on, but I guess you get the picture.....

The picture I get is your set belief system (which is no different than the staunch "believers" camp) which appears to have come from only a minimal amount of thought or real research..

Yes, this subject to some does have the hallmarks of "religion" but I find that is actually the minority not the majority, and certainly not ALL, or ALWAYS or FOREVER, etc...

I may be wrong, and don't mind if I am, but it doesn't look like you've given any open-minded thought or research into this area. Healthy skepticism is valuable and needed in this crazy field of study, but it needs to come after information has been gleaned and reviewed, not as a knee jerk reaction stemming from minimal information...or your own set belief system...

Originally posted by nv4711
The "Rocket Man" from Palenque... riding a "Space Vehicle" that is, so it is claimed, powered by a rocket motor... So the Aliens came with rocket powered space ships... pretty lame... and of course impossible given the distances of interstellar travel

Haha, the ultimate Straw Man fallacy. Surely you can do better than that. If not, you have no clue what-so-ever what your talking about...

Originally posted by Toxicsurf

Originally posted by nv4711
The "Rocket Man" from Palenque... riding a "Space Vehicle" that is, so it is claimed, powered by a rocket motor... So the Aliens came with rocket powered space ships... pretty lame... and of course impossible given the distances of interstellar travel

Haha, the ultimate Straw Man fallacy. Surely you can do better than that. If not, you have no clue what-so-ever what your talking about...

Hi Toxicsurf..... for efficiency, I'll pack both replies in here...

You're correct, I used a very broad brush and most likely didn't do justice to most UFO / AA proponents. My post was a little lashing out after coming off a heated discussion with some people that are the ..let's say the fringe of the fringe... anyways, believe it or not, I'm actually pretty reasonable and always open to new viewpoints and it wouldn't be the first time I change my opinion on a subject if presented with reasonable facts.
So was I generalizing - yes, I did.

On the other hand, I think it is certainly allowed to ask that something as sensational (to put it mildly) as Aliens on Earth, ancient or not, must hold up to the highest scrutiny. I personally don't belong to the people that say "Bring an Alien to my house, and I'll believe you"... but I will need more than mysteries that have been sufficiently explained long ago or "We don't know, so Aliens must have done it".

And by the way... I've read Daeniken when I was 12 years old.. and that was 40 years ago and of course was thrilled.. haha.. damn, I even blurted out in school when the Pyramids came up "The Aliens built it"... not a good idea :-)

As for the Straw Man fallacy you're mentioning above - can you explain, not sure I understand what you mean....

reply to post by nv4711

Straw man def.
using the Rocketman story to discredit all other UFO events was my point. But obviously I missed quite a bit by not thoroughly reading your previous banter with others (hence my willingness to be wrong)...

I too was enamored by Daeniken at 12 or 13 years old, or whenever the movie came out. Can't remember if I read the book first or saw the movie first. Thankfully I've actually done some research and have found out.......that there are just more questions...

Thanks for your considerate response...


*I eject negativity*...

reply to post by Toxicsurf


Great, so we're cool.

If you had to list your personal Top 3 to make the case for the AA theory, which would you choose?

reply to post by nv4711

Im driving, have to respond later. But with AA, it may just be the totality of personal recorded accounts...

Originally posted by Toxicsurf
If this phenomenon was easily explained by nature we wouldn't be here still studying it after 60+ years. Studied by men with minds far superior to mine and yours I'm willing to bet...

I would say that a fair number of sightings are probably due to natural phenomena..........after all natural phenomena have been studied by man far longer that "UFOs" have..........and even today we are discovering "new" natural phenomena.........It was only a few years ago that "Elves, Sprites and Blue Jets" were discovered........and yet this phenomena has always been there........except man didn't know it was there.
Earthquake lights and ball lightning still largely remain a mystery even though its pretty reasonable to assume these are "natural" phenomena not ET space craft.

If something cannot be identified in the sky it doesn't necessarily follow that it isn't natural phenomena.......even if man has studied it for 60 years +.

Originally posted by nv4711

Originally posted by DaveNorris
debunked or not, it still makes more sence to me than any religion

Except that the "Aliens on Earth" (Ancient or now) hypothesis (and I use the term generously here) bears all the hallmarks of a "religion".

a) It is purely faith based
b) It presents a creation myth - the numero uno of Religion
c) The faithful see miracles (UFOs, Aliens) in things that are easily explained by nature
d) The validity of the Alien on Earth argument is "proven" by "scripture" which contents are "proven" by other "scripture"
e) It's lead by "high priests" (Daeniken et al, Sitchin, Berlitz...) preaching the "gospel"
f) It defends its arguments through constant repetition of the dogma, showing no evolution of the theory itself.

I could go on, but I guess you get the picture.....

It is true that there are alot of folks out there who....in their desperate need to make sense of LIFE....will follow or believe just about anyone or anything.

And yes....just because a person sees a UFO doesn't mean they have seen anything other than what the letters stand for.

But....there is one major flaw in your thoughtful list of logical representations of what REALLY IS.

That flaw is that E.T. as well as E.T. craft are a REALITY.

What proof can I provide? There are NUMEROUS POSTS that anyone here can look up with my name signed to them....showing anyone who desires....EXACTLY WHERE TO FIND THE IRREFUTABLE PROOF AND DOCUMENTATION....to fully understand what went on before the AGENCY....and the AGENCY I speak of is not the COMPANY or CIA....developed a plan that was requested by IKE....on how to keep E.T. under wraps.

Anyone with a bit of time can read numerous D.C. Newspaper articles and interviews with every Military, Civilian, Govermental, Scientific....even studies done by undergrads at Universities all over the nation....ON WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE MASSIVE ALIEN CRAFT OVER FLIGHTS OF WASHINGTON D.C.s CAPITOL BUILDING, WHITE HOUSE, military instalations....etc....etc....etc....

As far as myself....I know E.T. to be a REALITY....and believe me....I wish I did not. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

What proof can I provide? There are NUMEROUS POSTS that anyone here can look up with my name signed to them....showing anyone who desires....EXACTLY WHERE TO FIND THE IRREFUTABLE PROOF AND DOCUMENTATION....

Proof though requires more than just "documentation".

Let's have ET bodies or skin samples.........let's have the proper analysis done.....show a proper scientific paper describing ET.

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

What proof can I provide? There are NUMEROUS POSTS that anyone here can look up with my name signed to them....showing anyone who desires....EXACTLY WHERE TO FIND THE IRREFUTABLE PROOF AND DOCUMENTATION....

Proof though requires more than just "documentation".

Let's have ET bodies or skin samples.........let's have the proper analysis done.....show a proper scientific paper describing ET.

I am afraid that will not happen in our lifetimes...and if someone actually ran into happenstance and collected real physical data and material....this person whould soon change their claims as it all being a big joke!

The evidence I am showing you where to find is PROOF ENOUGH! Split Infinity

reply to post by Logical one


And I would agree, most can probably be explained. But for now there are still some cases which can't be and never may be explained...

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

What proof can I provide? There are NUMEROUS POSTS that anyone here can look up with my name signed to them....showing anyone who desires....EXACTLY WHERE TO FIND THE IRREFUTABLE PROOF AND DOCUMENTATION....

Proof though requires more than just "documentation".

Let's have ET bodies or skin samples.........let's have the proper analysis done.....show a proper scientific paper describing ET.

I am afraid that will not happen in our lifetimes...and if someone actually ran into happenstance and collected real physical data and material....this person whould soon change their claims as it all being a big joke!

The evidence I am showing you where to find is PROOF ENOUGH! Split Infinity

Hi SplitInfinity...in fact I came across a few of your posts, and if I understand and summarize it correctly, you personally have met one or more alien beings - because you're either employed by or otherwise associated with an unknown government(?) agency or at least very close to a person, presumably a family member, who is.
I've also taken from your posts, and you hint at it again in this one, that this agency has no qualms taking anyone out who comes "to close" or would attempt to disclose the information.

If this is a, at least in general, correct summary, then I would appreciate if you could answer me this: (and my questions are serious, not trying to mock or show you up!):

a) Given the public nature of this board (ATS) - why have you not been taken out by that agency? It would take about 5 minutes for them to find out where you're posting from...
b) If the evidence, resp. the information you're referring to, is so easy to find and public - why does this agency not remove it resp. ever allowed it to become public...
c) If you're still associated or have been associated with that agency - what makes you breaking your oath to secrecy and risk at least a trial for high treason, if not worse?
d) Can you name a person that has "disappeared" that can reasonably be connected to UFO disclosure or this agency?
e) The alien beings - where are they located?
f) In some of your posts, you obviously spill the beans on, I assume literally "above top secret", alien technology and if I understand correctly, have knowledge of the elusive Unified Field Theory - which would get you a Nobel Prize in about 1 hours time... again, how come the agency is looking on?

Cheers

reply to post by nv4711


Just for the record....I have NEVER said that I have seen any race of E.T. or have I stated that I work for the Agency. I have also....NEVER....divulged....ANY....Data, Documentation or Transcripts of any Military nature or property of any U.S. Govermental Agency or Body....that has not already been either Declassified or has become PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE....or in the case of where to find data on E.T. craft in old Newspaper articles or files....such as the ones LEGALLY AVAILABLE...through the Freedom of Information Act.

For ANYONE....stupid enough...or for whatever personal reasons might make them do an act that compromises National Security....they DESERVE WHAT THEY WILL GET! I have NOT DONE THIS!

EVERYTHING I have posted...has been in the media previously. It is just that...although this information is legally available....people and ALL MAJOR MEDIA....have forgotten.

I find this apathy......distastful. Split Infinity

One last thing....the people who work in a specific field.....work in conditions that most people would never tollerate or last but a few hours. They work hard to protect all of us....and when I say all....that mean more people than live in the U.S.

They are just people....sons and daughters....Moms and Dads....and are labeled.....THEY....THEM.....and are VILIFIED in the extreme. I find this SICKENING! Split Infinity