Obama Draws Line in the Sand with Republicans - Will Not Extend Bush Tax Cuts

reply to post by Janky Red

o the champions of the rich and corporations are the ones destroying the Middle class Neo... The wealthy are getting wealthier, it's a fact, your argument is fake....

we both know that is bs the government is and you know it those rich getting richer bs is the fact they said goodbye to the stupidty in this country.

I am sorry Neo, survival is not an issue once you break a certain level of income, another fake argument.

when people constantly try to keep taking revenue thus destroying your capacity to generate your own revenue that is the very defintion of survival then add the total and complete government control of how and where you can do business..


agian people like the last 3 posters are in control of this government and that is the problem.

people like me are not in control.

if we were you would still be whining,.

Originally posted by origamiandurbanism
beezzer, here you go -

1932 -- Hoover raises the top tax rate from to 25 to 63 percent.

1933 -- Roosevelt comes into office. He begins spending at the same time that new tax hike comes into effect. The Depression bottoms out.

1934 -- Recovery begins. The GNP rises 7.7 percent, unemployment falls to 21.7 percent.

1935 -- New government spending on public works and rural electrification. A push to strengthen labor and raise wages. New taxes through the creation of Social Security.

The GNP grows another 8.1 percent, and unemployment continues to fall.

1936 -- The top tax rate is raised again. This time to 79 percent.

GNP grows a record 14.1 percent; unemployment falls even further.

Here's the full article -

www.alternet.org...

It's a pretty interesting read.

Basically, everything the Republicans continue to say about taxes is untrue.

But why would the Republicans keep trying to pretend that taxes are the cause of the recession? Is it because they represent the top 5% who dont wanna pay their taxes?

reply to post by neo96


I didn't say the companys and corporations...the discussion is about the rich people...aka citizens...not the new "Corporations are people also" nonsense...but people.

Companys and corporations are the ones needing encouragement to expand and keep job locals. this comes from tax breaks for employment, perhaps incentives for expansion, and huge peneltys and taraffs for exporting jobs and importing cheap crap overseas that slaughter domestic products. (carrot and stick).

But this isn't about corps and companys...this is about individuals filing their taxes...and your entire arguement falls apart (because you attempted to stick corps and comps with rich -people-). it can't even be considered a strawman argument...its just deceptive what you did. for shame.
tisk tisk

reply to post by SaturnFX


yeah you think that but dehumanizing companies and corporations when it takes people to run them.

and the fact is you have to be rich to employ people.

strawman and an arguement that falls apart.

no i am not willing to destroy other people for my own personal gain because that is no better than those decried.

who creates the wealth in this country its a fact the goverment takes it and what they dont take they destroy.

the poor and middle class need them because without them

AGIAN the current state of the union exists.

continue to go after them and they are cutting their own throats.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

companys and corporations

yeah that are the ones paying people.

And who is providing those entities with money Neo?

If all their customers are having a hard time surviving (actually), how are those people going to stay in business?

We have tried this rich first approach for 30 years, I think we should trying benefiting the other end and see how that works.


Marginal Tax Rate[5] Single Married Filing Jointly or Qualified Widow(er) Married Filing Separately Head of Household
10% $0 – $8,375
15% $8,376 – $34,000
25% $34,001 – $82,400
28% $82,401 – $171,850
33% $171,851 – $373,650
35% $373,651+ $373,650


How about bump the bottom three down 5% and leave the rest where they were pre Bush

A person who spends ALL of their income each month will transfer more money to the job creators

reply to post by Janky Red


fine lets have it your way

never mind the fact that most people are already paying 50% of their incomes

hell lets make them pay more

lets say 75% nope still not good enough lets make it 85% still not good enough

lets make it 95% of their incomes.

A person who spends ALL of their income each month will transfer more money to the job creators

true enough because it never stops.

no income left now no job creators and no way to live.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

and the fact is you have to be rich to employ people.

And people have to have the income to spend in order for people to be rich, you have a alot more economic
activity resulting from the grocery shopping habits of

150 workers than you do 1 CEO

OR gasoline

150 gas tanks

Vs.

1 Porche

150 sticks of deodorant

Vs.

1 stick of deodorant


150 value meals

Vs.

1 value meal

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Janky Red

 

no income left now no job creators and no way to live.

Neo, there are job creators, bosses and workers in Somalia, in Mexico city, in Mumbai...

This country had 90% tax rates in the 50's, actually had those rates Neo, the creators were still here, creating.

reply to post by Janky Red


fine then you go right ahead and tell those people how and what they should be spending their money on

its your money its not theirs

of course that opens up someone else telling you what you should be spending your money on

but wait oh hell no NOONE is going to tell janky what to spend his money on,

do as i say not as i do,.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

yeah you think that but dehumanizing companies and corporations when it takes people to run them.

corporations are not human, therefore it is impossible to dehumanize them...its impossible to dehumanize a car also, even though it takes people to drive them.

and the fact is you have to be rich to employ people.

No, you have to be in managment to employ people.
if your qualifications for human resources is "be rich", then your going to have one hell of a disfunctional company.
You don't have to be rich at all...and actually, you don't even need the owners to be rich..you can have a group of middle class workers pool money and open up a business with profit sharing. Some of the best small companys are run just like that...about 5-6 people get together, start up a startup and voila...they are pulling in a good sum of money to divide up and no longer schmuck employees. each one going from 30-40k a year to suddenly making 150k a year totally happy and with a good sized workforce.
That is the heartland job...that is the "american dream"...its not catering to Mr. freaking burns...its stimulating those small groups of middle classers to unite together and build something.

strawman and an arguement that falls apart.

no i am not willing to destroy other people for my own personal gain because that is no better than those decried.

Glad you feel that way
So, in that same sentence, whats your thoughts on:
unions, medicare, social security, tax shelters, ...nevermind, I will stop here. I know your standard answers...I can google "Rush Limbaugh Views" easily enough.

who creates the wealth in this country its a fact the goverment takes it and what they dont take they destroy.

If the government took the money, we wouldn't be broke
corporate interests hoard the money to divide amongst the (often foreign) investors. Capitalism is fine...I am a fan of capitalism. its a good enough system..but we are not a capitalist society anymore..we are a corporatist society..the argument is no longer fighting for mom and pop shops and their ability to create...now the fight is to destroy mom and pop shops to favor corporate global chains (funny, chains..same thing that holds slaves), and destroy any level playing field. what happens if corporatist agendas continue to run free and rampant...consider the world 100 years from now. yes, all wealth will eventually be consolidated into the hands of just a few people whom literally own everything...the corporatist agenda is a destroyer of nations.

the poor and middle class need them because without them

the poor and middle class suffer because of them. I am not bickering at some millionare living in a nice pad...that is incentive for success.
I am talking about the billionare tycoons, the obscene hoarders and destroyers of capitalism.
no, the poor become poorer and the middle becomes poor because of them...societys crumble because of this obscenity.
I understand your views...I really do, but I think you need to stop hearing retoric and start understanding actual movements in the world.

AGIAN the current state of the union exists.

continue to go after them and they are cutting their own throats.

No, actually, the union would be -far- better off if the hoarders and parasites were basically evicted. money would then be spent when made, and the economy would boom. new players would emerge under the new rules, and plenty of millionares would be born.

I think, based on statistics and economic logic, you are wrong...but hey, its good to disagree..perhaps someone watching you and I argue can think of a third option that will be the perfect solution overall.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Janky Red

 

fine then you go right ahead and tell those people how and what they should be spending their money on

its your money its not theirs

of course that opens up someone else telling you what you should be spending your money on

but wait oh hell no NOONE is going to tell janky what to spend his money on,

do as i say not as i do,.

I don't have a whole lot of choice on what I have to spend my money on Neo, I have to spend my money
to live in a humane condition.

I would rather keep my money. I only have choice on which company I chose to give my business to...
aside some incidentals and treats

reply to post by Eurisko2012


In case you haven't noticed we've been in a recession since 2008. The entire time we've been in this recession the Bush tax cuts have been in effect. Don't you think it's about time we tried something different? Obviously, lowering taxes isn't working so doesn't it makes sense to raise taxes a little bit and see if it works? Plus the tax rates would only increase for people with $250,000 or more. Personally I don't think it should be a set standard for the entire country. It should be based on the economy of the state/county where you live. For example, people who live in the Hamptons on Long Island have quite a bit of money and haven't really been hit too hard by the recession while some places in upstate New York are really struggling with their economy and have been for quite a while. I don't think you can really set a standard for the country as a whole since every place in the country is different in terms of how it has been affected by the recession.

Why would anybody believe what Obama says about anything? Those who fell for the "Hope and Change" line have already learned that a Boy was sent to do a Man's job.

When the politicians start talking (yet again) about taxes on the rich it's merely a smokescreen intended for the Lemmings to rationalize the increased taxes coming to the rest of us, starting with a VAT.

Clearly Obama is in someone's pocket and has been since the beginning. Once burned twice shy.

reply to post by SaturnFX

corporations are not human, therefore it is impossible to dehumanize them...its impossible to dehumanize a car also, even though it takes people to drive them.

i will remember this next time anyone talks about unions,social security,medicaid and medicare.

if your qualifications for human resources is "be rich", then your going to have one hell of a disfunctional company. You don't have to be rich at all...and actually, you don't even need the owners to be rich..you can have a group of middle class workers pool money and open up a business with profit sharing. Some of the best small companys are run just like that...about 5-6 people get together, start up a startup and voila...they are pulling in a good sum of money to divide up and no longer schmuck employees. each one going from 30-40k a year to suddenly making 150k a year totally happy and with a good sized workforce. That is the heartland job...that is the "american dream"...its not catering to Mr. freaking burns...its stimulating those small groups of middle classers to unite together and build something.

you cant do anything without money in this country thats a fact that funny man "pooling money" for real estate,utilities,insurance,salaries,lawyers,workmans comp, overhead,vehicles,resources. etc. all the while the government dictating what you have to be doing.

Glad you feel that way So, in that same sentence, whats your thoughts on: unions, medicare, social security, tax shelters, ...nevermind, I will stop here. I know your standard answers...I can google "Rush Limbaugh Views" easily enough.

funny agian since i have never listened to rush in my life but way to go on the assumptions. and then agian i didnt create any of that bs.

If the government took the money, we wouldn't be broke

that was hilarious it really was between income taxes,license fees and taxed on everything we buy in this country

the fact is government is broke because we are.

corporate interests hoard the money to divide amongst the (often foreign) investors. Capitalism is fine...I am a fan of capitalism. its a good enough system..but we are not a capitalist society anymore..we are a corporatist society..the argument is no longer fighting for mom and pop shops and their ability to create...now the fight is to destroy mom and pop shops to favor corporate global chains (funny, chains..same thing that holds slaves), and destroy any level playing field. what happens if corporatist agendas continue to run free and rampant...consider the world 100 years from now. yes, all wealth will eventually be consolidated into the hands of just a few people whom literally own everything...the corporatist agenda is a destroyer of nations.

and government self interst has pushed them overseas the fact the majority of wealth that is made is offshore.

and no we are not a corporatist society we are a big government society who has no concept of what capitalism and a free market is, the fact is government regualtions etc have destroyed those mom and pop chains.

think about why is cheaper to have things made 10,000 miles away and shipped here instead of having them made 1 mile away from where you live?

the poor and middle class suffer because of them. I am not bickering at some millionare living in a nice pad...that is incentive for success. I am talking about the billionare tycoons, the obscene hoarders and destroyers of capitalism. no, the poor become poorer and the middle becomes poor because of them...societys crumble because of this obscenity. I understand your views...I really do, but I think you need to stop hearing retoric and start understanding actual movements in the world.

NO they are suffering because of this government thats who

No, actually, the union would be -far- better off if the hoarders and parasites were basically evicted. money would then be spent when made, and the economy would boom. new players would emerge under the new rules, and plenty of millionares would be born.

too many rules are the problem new players cant emerge as long as the government is god and king here.

think, based on statistics and economic logic, you are wrong...but hey, its good to disagree..perhaps someone watching you and I argue can think of a third option that will be the perfect solution overall.

your not the first and you wont be the last honestly i leave a thread the same way i go into one.

people are free to do whatever agree or disagree its their choice.

reply to post by saltdog


We should then also apply these same rules to all the corporate execs living off of government welfare.

Oil and banking are two of the biggest gov subsidized businesses. In order to get your billions in subsidies boys, you are going to have to quite your drinking and chasing women an neglecting your kids.

I am all for it.

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Why would anybody believe what Obama says about anything?

Why would anyone believe what the GOP has to say?

Those who fell for the "Hope and Change" line have already learned that a Boy was sent to do a Man's job.

Or was it the maid's job? A Woman's job? Such hubris is entertaining.

When the politicians start talking (yet again) about taxes on the rich it's merely a smokescreen intended for the Lemmings to rationalize the increased taxes coming to the rest of us, starting with a VAT.

When the politicians start talking (yet again) about how tax cuts will create jobs its really just a smokescreen to further enrich the wealthiest 5% while further perpetuating the false notion that the lemmings who vote for them will someday be that wealthy themselves.

Clearly Obama is in someone's pocket and has been since the beginning.

Clearly.

Once burned twice shy.

You edited your post to add THAT?

reply to post by neo96


Do you even read the nonsense you post?

when people constantly try to keep taking revenue thus destroying your capacity to generate your own revenue that is the very defintion of survival then add the total and complete government control of how and where you can do business..

How can you buy into this moronic propaganda?

The banks, THE FED RES has the total control of how and where you do business.

Free market/communistic economic policies have turned control of our nation over to the banks and the super rich. What has been fabulous for Wall Street has been devastating for Main Street.

Why do you support the middle class subsidizing the super rich through taxes and insane banking policies?

Good for him.
I'm glad to hear that these culture killing tax breaks will end now.

Giving rich people more money does not make them hire more people.

Trickle down economics is a really dumb idea. Maybe it would work if there wasn't that one thing, what's it called? Oh yeah, GREED.

Did you know I, as a public school teacher, paid more in taxes last year than did the entire GE corporation?

Yeah, tax breaks for mega kagillionaires needs to end now.

Maybe then I can get rid of my other job, which is necessary to make ends meet, and focus on teaching your kids.

reply to post by neo96

and no we are not a corporatist society we are a big government society who has no concept of what capitalism and a free market is, the fact is government regualtions etc have destroyed those mom and pop chains.

.

Just more moronic nonsense.

Mom and Pop businesses were doing far better when the government was doing its job of policing white collar crime. Under deregulation, white collar crooks have ran the mom and pop business into the ground, using phony money and illegal immigration to strip the markets out from under them.

At what point in time do you start to face reality again, and realize that when government does its job of regulating the economy, working class people do far better.

But you would rather see our country ran by Wall Street crooks then elected representatives.

reply to post by poet1b

How can you buy into this moronic propaganda? The banks, THE FED RES has the total control of how and where you do business.

and who created the federal reserve and the consumer protection agency controling the entire financial wealth of this country?

who writes the laws and enforces them?

the government.

Free market/communistic economic policies have turned control of our nation over to the banks and the super rich. What has been fabulous for Wall Street has been devastating for Main Street.

hardly since the government controls the markets and everything in this country. as for wall street why do people just pass the fact they make most of their money elsewhere in the world..

Why do you support the middle class subsidizing the super rich through taxes and insane banking policies?

what i support is the fact the rich and middle class need each other and without one they end up just like the lower class of this society.

what i dont support is the rape and greed of this country because people feel entitled to more and more and more and have no concept of the word no.