A Better World Without Men?

Interesting... But why can't it be like "What would the world be like if men and women worked together. A world without men would be boring. But I do agree with the op. the war thing men got going is outta control at the present moment. But if women ran the world I still believe there would be war but just less wars.

Originally posted by Doublemint

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
What am I supposed to say to this, especially since this post is completely unfounded? I don't preach that women are perfect. You can read all of my posts and replies, and you'll see that you're absolutely wrong. I'm not bitter, spiteful or hateful. I suggest you read the original posts in a thread before you waste your time replying.

Maybe you don't preach it but you do have tendencies.

But any ways I would really like you to awnser this question.

What would you do if you a hungry child and you had no money, no food, nothing to trade, the food banks were all closed, and you couldn't find anyone to give you any food at all? I don't want to know what you wouldn't do I want to know what you would do.

I would try the following:

1.) I would try to go from store to store and ask if they had any food they could spare. If they said they couldn't, I'd ask people walking out of the grocery store if they could spare a piece of bread or whatever else.

2.) If that wouldn't work, I'd go stand by the freeway and beg like the many homeless men do. Some of those guys earn pretty good money just standing there looking shabby.

3.) If none of this worked, I'd go ask at the gas station if I could mop the floors or clean the bathrooms in exchange for some food. People aren't heartless. If they see kids asking for food, chances are they will likely give them either money, or buy them a sandwich. I know I would.

None of these scenarios include me obtaining a gun and blowing someone's brains out for $100.00.

reply to post by MaxNormal


My original premise is that boys need mature, responsible role models.

Calling the thread sexist and demanding it be shut down does not address the growing problem of violent crime in our society, which was the OP's point.

Crimes perpetrated by, young, rudderless boys...

reply to post by 2manyquestions


While the question is definitely interesting, as others have hinted at before it seems that the OP is not as interested in an actual discussion on the subject as they are in hammering down their point. It is clear that you see men as inherently violent and I would guess this is because of either your own personal experience or that of someone close to you.

You've compiled some crime statistics that show that more men are convicted of crimes/violent crimes/etc. That's a decent start at backing up the point you're trying to make but it's far from enough to convince any reasonable person that somehow the world would be a better place without men. While the lens you're seeing the world through right now might now allow it, make no mistake: women have a capacity for violence and aggression just like men.

I would guess that a hypothetical woman, if pushed or hit by her boyfriend or husband, would call the police and report it. I would guess that a hypothetical man, if pushed or hit by his girlfriend, would leave. I had a friend in a relationship where this situation actually played out. A buddy of mine was dating a girl who was occasionally volatile and violent and would slap and punch him. He never fought back and never called the police because he didn't want to put her through being arrested. Instead he just left. Believe it or not, most guys (that I have known) will not hurt a woman under almost any circumstance. We really LIKE women.

Please don't mistake my post for excusing any violence committed by anyone, whether a man hurting another man, a man hurting a woman, or a woman hurting a man or woman. If there's one thing that I would think everyone can get behind it's a reduction in violence. If, however, you insist on insisting that violence and aggression are purely male problems, you're delusional.

One of my biggest problems with the way you conduct your 'discussions' is that you've mentioned that 'rapists and murderers' wouldn't be welcome in 'your world' and asked if they're necessary in 'other people's worlds'. That is a ridiculous phrasing of a question that you already know the answer to. It's phrased in a way to try to force the other person to say what you want them to say, namely, that men are violent. What I think you may be failing to realize is that rapists and murderers aren't welcome in the ACTUAL world that we all actually live in. We put them in jail.. and count them.. and report statistics on them.. (the ones you're currently using to make your point).

Finally, since this is ATS, I'll ask you this question: If at any point earth is invaded by an alien species, do you want men to be around? Maybe some of our more rugged traits would come in handy then.

reply to post by Doublemint


It has nothing to do with sex . . . it’s about the active and passive principle personified in the nature of the genders.

That means the balance is screwed up in the world clearly by the overextension of the male energy and the suppression of the feminine energy. In other words humans have been programmed to be too aggressive and less passive towards ourselves and the earth.

That’s why we have in the world an overindulgence in violence, intolerance, hatred, fear, and unhappiness, rather than the passive attributes that breed peace, understanding and happiness

Originally posted by MaxNormal

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by SolarE-Souljah
reply to post by MaxNormal

 

The OP is seriously one of the most hateful spiteful persons I've ever encountered.

Very disrespectful to the males of this world.

OP, how can you preach how perfect women are when you yourself are showing your dark bitter side?

Disturbing.

What am I supposed to say to this, especially since this post is completely unfounded? I don't preach that women are perfect. You can read all of my posts and replies, and you'll see that you're absolutely wrong. I'm not bitter, spiteful or hateful. I suggest you read the original posts in a thread before you waste your time replying.

Your so stupid you cannot see how sexist you are. You are judging people by the outside only. Everyone is an individual peopel like you just lumb groups together and make blanket statements. YOUR A SEXIST. YOU ARE THE DEFININTION OF A SEXIST. Your also someone that probably thinks you cant be sexist if your a woman or racist if your black. again sooooo sexist and racist.

Calling me stupid and sexist isn't going to get you anywhere. I would appreciate it if you cut down on the personal attacks, and tried to calmly and rationally discuss the topic like so many others have done. If you can't contain yourself and your personal attacks, don't be surprised if I stop replying to you.

Hi There,


Must say this has been a rather thought-provoking thread for me...so thank you for that...


Just to briefly respond to some of the questions posed within it:

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

"How would a world without men look and operate?"

Absolutely no idea.
We can always - and indeed thats what you're asking -surmise what it might look and operate like...but again thats likely based upon our own perceptions formed from living within a society that is duo-gendered.

Off the top of my head...on some days I'd think it'd probably look and operate a whole lot better, on other days not so much...depends on what mindspace I'm in at the time and whether my opinion is being coloured by what I've seen or experienced or noted in the news etc recently.

So then what is it about the male sex which makes it so prone to committing crimes? Is it the upbringing? Testosterone? Social conditioning? Social pressures on the male that lead them to a powerful desire to overachieve in any way possible? Since not all men are violent or commit crimes, what is it about the male sex that lands so many in a jail cell?

*cue stereotype-based answer*
Personally...at the end of the day ALL of us, be we male or female, are animals.
We like to think we're not...but we are.
Sure, we can trumpet on about 'higher brain functioning', about successful adaptation to and of our environments, about technological advances etc etc...but that just makes us a supposedly 'smarter' animal.
Again - it can be debated that much of what we Humans have achieved and do is probably not too smart at all when we consider the wider fall-out of those actions upon us, upon our planet and every other organism living upon it.

As such...with so many other Animals...the male of the species tends to be the more physically aggressive and responsive of the genders. That said, again, its merely a generalisation...as there are numerous other species where the Female will rip anything apart, particularly during preservation of their offspring.

So...I would assume (and possibly incorrectly) that their may be a bit of 'loading' of the cards by Nature towards the Male being the more aggressive. At least initially.

To steal from Kenny Rogers 'The Gambler': "Coz every hands a winner and every hands a loser"

Nature may *deal* the cards...but how WE choose to play them comes down to us in a HUGE way.
That's perhaps where we Humans may (and again this probably sounds so anthropocentric) be seen as in some ways not being bound to our inherent natural/animalistic *urges* - the ability to consciously assess and CHOOSE which course of action we take...which road we choose to walk down.

6 of one, half dozen of the other. Nature and Nurture. It all plays its hand into the end result.


For example:
For myself, born as a male, born into certain socio-economic groups, race, culture, born into certain environments and thus exposed to what those environments *teach* and reinforce are acceptable ways of being and acting...by all intents and purposes I should either be dead, or making someone else dead, or slinging drugs, committing crimes, in and out of jails etc etc etc.
Difference is choice. Is also a good deal of luck along the way.

I'd also toss this out there: On some levels what you expect and/or accept is what you will receive.
IF we view Males - or certain communities/societies of Males - as being 'scum' or 'worthless' or 'violent' or 'dangerous' or 'bound for jail and nowhere else'...then I think we're adding to a possible self-fulfilling prophecy.
Raise expectations. Raise personal viewpoints. Reduce the dismal and relegation of sets of society to the trash heap and we may just find it yields a positive outcome overall.

Why do so many men (as opposed to women) choose to commit violent acts?

Nature, nurture, choice, upbringing, perceived options, learnt response patterns....and a bazillion other factors...

Do you sometimes find yourself out of control?

Occasionally. But then 'out of control' can encompass everything from feeling overwhelmed and unsure what to do...through to going absolutely ballistic and nuking the entire world...

I'd also suggest that anyone who answers that they don't - be they male or female - is being less than honest or at least less than fully aware of their own physical/emotional/spiritual reactions and actions throughout their life.
Finding ourselves 'out of control' is not inherent a BAD thing. Often its an opportunity to learn better ways of being and doing.
Feeling out of control is a great indicator that ones 'resilience' and response 'bag-o-tricks' might require improving or adapting for the changing demands upon you.

Do you feel like there's no other alternative to causing physical damage?

No. There are ALWAYS alternatives. No matter how hard they may be to stomach for us at the time.
We all have choice and options.
Noone ever said the choices or options would be easy palatable ones to make or take.

I know that sports can sometimes relieve that pressure, but clearly it may not be enough. What helps you stay in control, and do you believe everyone has the ability to fight off the "natural" urge to become violent?

What helps me stay in control - and to be honest sometimes I don't think I am...sometimes I'm also that leaf being blown around by the wind, just as we ALL are at times in our life.
Wife, family, friends, workmates, my baby boy, faith, church, diving, tramping, nature, fishing, car racing, building things, fixing up our house/home maintanence etc etc etc etc...

I do believe everyone has ability to be or do whatever they choose. As such, yes, I do believe we can decide our path - regardless of where our birth and/or upbringing may have placed us upon it...

...to not do so...well...we may as well just turn the lights off and put the 'Closed for Business' sign up on Mankind...as to not do so is pretty much to deny hope...

reply to post by Teeky


You would have Hillary Clinton as president which is just as bad as a Bush. If you follow her and everything she stands for is war. She helped promote the war in Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. Or you would have someone like Condoleeza Rice.

Or is there inconclusive proof that women could be just as bad or even worse than males:

Countess Elizabeth Bathory:

After 29 years of marriage in 1604 Count Ferencz Nadasdy died and shortly after rumors began to surface about Bathory's cruel treatment of her female servants. As she only tortured and murdered servants no one cared.

In 1609 Elizabeth's luck began to change. She was accused of murdering girls of lower noble classes sent to her for schooling. She was tried in 1611 and sentenced to house arrest.

Darya Saltykova

Darya Saltykova b. 1730 d. 1801 was a Russian noblewoman accused of torturing and murdering at least 100 of her serfs. Most of the serfs she murdered were children and young girls Complaints about Saltykova were ignored by officials for a very long time until relatives of her victims were able to bring an official petiton before Catherine the Great who sentenced her to be chained to a public platform for one hour wearing a sign stating 'This Woman tortured and Murdered', Saltykova was later imprisoned in the basement of a convent for the remainder of her life.

Delphine Lalaurie

One of the most infamous figures in New Orleans history Madame Lalaurie was a socialite who lived in the French Quarter of New Orleans. Delphine allegedly killed, tortured and mutilated 100 of her slaves.

One of the most infamous stories of Lalaurie's cruelty involves an 8 year old slave girl who was brushing her hair. Lalaurie brutally beat the child who tried in vain to escape but fell to her death from a balcony.

Catalina de los Ríos y Lisperguer

Catalina de los Ríos y Lisperguer was a Chilean aristocrat often called "La Quintrala", she was extremely cruel to her tenants and slaves, torturing them and murdering them. She avoided punishment for years due to her extreme wealth, she was eventually tried for the murder of 40 peasants but she was not convicted due to her familial ties. She died in 1655 and her house was abandoned for many years due to fear that her malevolent spirit may live on.

Enriqueta Marti

Enriqueta Marti was born in Barcelona, Spain. She is an extremely disturbing figure in history, she was a child murderer and also a procuress of children for the purpose of prostitution.

Another way Enriqueta Marti made her living was by selling charms and potions to the wealthy of Barcelona. What they did not know is that in those potions were the ground up remains of her child victims.

To conclude, because you haven't done nearly enough digging around into the subject you should have found women can be just as ruthless as men can be. The reason you don't hear of the atrocities is because there weren't very many women in charge.

Whether a man in charge or a woman you will have the same outcome in a different way, meaning death and etc. The world would be a utopia under women only if there was no race, borders, or a limited amount of resources. If there is a limited amount of resources it becomes my people have to eat before yours.

So please quit trying to act like womens crap don't stink.

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by Doublemint

 

It has nothing to do with sex . . . it’s about the active and passive principle personified in the nature of the genders.

That means the balance is screwed up in the world clearly by the overextension of the male energy and the suppression of the feminine energy. In other words humans have been programmed to be too aggressive and less passive towards ourselves and the earth.

That’s why we have in the world an overindulgence in violence, intolerance, hatred, fear, and unhappiness, rather than the passive attributes that breed peace, understanding and happiness

So, the femals have to much male energy? thats what i got out of it, because you would expect the males to have male energy, I think, and the females to have female energy, so if there isn't balance i geuss the females have to much male energy.

I have a feeling I'm way off on this one so please correct what I said if its wrong.

But it should be tracable back in history as the energies flux? but then again most of what we learn of history is wars so that would lead to more male energy in both male and females?

so the real question is how to switch it back with out total meltdown. My mind can not process that

what I said before about sexing energy it puts a negative twist on it for me, but its hard to describe the differnces without using male and female energy.

Here we are, trying to convince someone who stubbornly keeps their eyes closed to open them. People in this thread are revealing some semblance of truth to you and you still refuse to see it. I spoke of history and sociology as a basis of why things are the way they are. So society produces some sociopaths - it's not limited to gender.

Molestation of children by men occurs mostly in the priesthood because it is male dominated area -- by tradition. It's a convenient place for such people (pedophiles) to congregate because they can easily hide behind the guise of the church to further their lust.

Rape often occurs because of the abuse of power (which I mentioned in my first post). When one is able to dominate another, they may act on that. There are underlining reasons as to why that may happen. A man doesn't just wake up and think "Hmm, today I feel like raping someone!" There is a progression to the point of rape and there are various paths that can lead up to it. From being mentally ill, from abusing position and power, from being constantly denied legitimate female companionship, excessive lust, childhood issues, and so on.

Can't you connect the dots from our history, evolution, and molding of society?


And stop comparing humans to animals. Last I checked I was a human, not a dolphin, or an elephant, or any other thing you want to bring up that belongs in the animal kingdom. We are not the same. We may have mammalian bodies but our minds and capabilities are far from animal.

Maybe we should also address why some men's reading comprehension skills are sorrowfully lacking.
Maybe there is some correlation there we should ponder.

Once again, the OP has not suggested that women are perfect, only that they are very much less likely to commit a violent crime. No need for the who's who among evil women diatribe...

Considering 90% of everything invented was thought of by MEN (including the modern tampon) I'd say this world would be pretty f*cking boring and intolerable.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by Doublemint

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
What am I supposed to say to this, especially since this post is completely unfounded? I don't preach that women are perfect. You can read all of my posts and replies, and you'll see that you're absolutely wrong. I'm not bitter, spiteful or hateful. I suggest you read the original posts in a thread before you waste your time replying.

Maybe you don't preach it but you do have tendencies.

But any ways I would really like you to awnser this question.

What would you do if you a hungry child and you had no money, no food, nothing to trade, the food banks were all closed, and you couldn't find anyone to give you any food at all? I don't want to know what you wouldn't do I want to know what you would do.

I would try the following:

1.) I would try to go from store to store and ask if they had any food they could spare. If they said they couldn't, I'd ask people walking out of the grocery store if they could spare a piece of bread or whatever else.

2.) If that wouldn't work, I'd go stand by the freeway and beg like the many homeless men do. Some of those guys earn pretty good money just standing there looking shabby.

3.) If none of this worked, I'd go ask at the gas station if I could mop the floors or clean the bathrooms in exchange for some food. People aren't heartless. If they see kids asking for food, chances are they will likely give them either money, or buy them a sandwich. I know I would.

None of these scenarios include me obtaining a gun and blowing someone's brains out for $100.00.

thats good hear. but you are a woman with a child it is much differnt than a man trying to do those thing besides standing on a corner begging. Most people are going to look at man asking for food like that and think why don't you go get a job, well he does have a job his money for the week went to land lord, when a man is walking around asking everybody for food it is just very differnt than a women doing it. thats even if the man can swallo his pride to ask.

So, that might lead one to rob a place and the person you are robbing doesn't just let you rob them so then that person might have to kill the chasier he is robbing. Is it right no. does it happen yes.

everybody seems so much more greedy and lazy today than in the past, and the thing is we haven't even come close to the peek, it would take a whole reversal of socity which in fact would push it to the peek and mabey a 100 years later it would be better. people can change there lifes personaly but for the bulk to change its just too much has to happen to fast and it would be bad in my opion.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
I want to make clear from the very beginning that my intention is not to bash men or women during this discussion. Both sexes poses positive and negative traits. I only wish to explore a hypothetical world not operated or dominated by testosterone/men.

I recently came up on an article titled Californian Dolphin Gang Caught Killing Porpoises

SEEMINGLY random acts of violence by bottlenose dolphins on porpoises could be down to sexual frustration among young males. Cases of the cetaceans killing other creatures for no apparent reason have been reported in UK waters. Now bottlenose dolphins have been seen attacking harbour porpoises in the Pacific Ocean. Crucially, these observations show for the first time that the attackers are young males (Marine Mammal Science, DOI: 10.1111/j.1748-7692.2011.00474.x).

Since I've heard of young male elephants also wreaking havoc on their environment, attacking and killing other animals for no apparent reason, this article led me to a train of thought - "How would a world without men look and operate?"

If you examine the news of any day or year, you will find plenty of articles on men who have committed some violent crime or another. From rape, abuse, brutal murder, violent attacks, bar fights, to fraud, drug and human trafficking, most of these are committed by the males. Admittedly there are many women who also commit horrific acts. They are not to be left out of this discussion completely, but the ratio of male crimes vs. female crimes seems much higher than it should be. For example, according to this website: Bureau of Justice Statistics and Correctional Populations in the United States

In 2009, the majority (82%) of the total correctional population was male, and 18% was female. Men comprised a smaller portion of the total correctional population in 2009 than in 1990 (86%), while the percentage of women increased within the total correctional population since 1990 (14%).

I can tell you that if I decide to travel to a seedy neighborhood, I'm not afraid of what some woman might do to me, I'm more afraid of what a man, or group of men might do to me for my car, my money, or any number of things they may not like about me. It's rare (definitely not impossible) to be held up or beat up by a woman or a group of women. It's always an aggressive-looking group of men I find myself watching out for.

So then what is it about the male sex which makes it so prone to committing crimes? Is it the upbringing? Testosterone? Social conditioning? Social pressures on the male that lead them to a powerful desire to overachieve in any way possible? Since not all men are violent or commit crimes, what is it about the male sex that lands so many in a jail cell?

Some would argue that male aggression is nature's way of keeping a territorial balance. Men are hunters and protectors by nature. While this may be true to some extent, is the use of that aggression necessary in today's day and age, and is it something that can be overcome? Though imperfect, I consider most human beings quite intelligent, and smart enough to figure out that killing somebody for money or selling somebody into sexual slavery is not the best solution to a problem. I don't feel that raping, repeat-killing (serial killers), abusing, or torturing is necessary to a person's survival in most (if not all) cases. Why do so many men (as opposed to women) choose to commit violent acts?

That leads me to imagine a world without men (or at least without men prone to violent aggression). Would we have less wars? More compromise? More compassion? Less crime? Or would women take over where men left off? Would we spend so much money on weapons and defense? Would we have to be afraid to walk into a poor neighborhood? Would gang violence still be as big of a problem as it is now? Is violence necessary for the human race to evolve, or is it holding us back?

Truth is that struggle/survival forces us to invent and reinvent. Many of the technological perks we have today came about, because the technology was highly beneficial to fighting wars. Eventually society found good (non-violent) use for those items, but would they have come to exist without pending wars? Would we have invented many of the things we have today if males weren't aggressive? Maybe in due time. Is there any benefit worth the human pain, suffering and death which we receive from being violent?

I myself would love to figure out what we can do to scale down on male aggression. I suppose I have more questions than answers, and I'd love to hear your feedback. Do you sometimes find yourself out of control? Do you feel like there's no other alternative to causing physical damage? I know that sports can sometimes relieve that pressure, but clearly it may not be enough. What helps you stay in control, and do you believe everyone has the ability to fight off the "natural" urge to become violent?

You seem to have a bit of a simplistic view of what 'men' are. Especially shown by your use of examples of male aggression in the Animal Kingdom.....You do realize that Males are quite often NOT the ones that are the aggressors, or even the larger of the sexes. It's totally a species thing.....In quite a few species the Male is much smaller and the Female is much larger....also aggression for mating purposes in a natural process which has evolved to make sure strong genetic offspring are produced...It's often the female of the species doing the fighting in such mating rituals...Same with Hunting....Female Lions are generally the ones that do all of the hunting, for instance.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


I have to laugh and remember what Solomon the Teacher said: One Good Man in a Thousand I have found and NO GOOD WOMEN. Frankly, after a lifetime of jumping through my arse to keep one woman after another happy, I finally realized that between holding a live grenade in one hand and a woman in the other, it is safer to hold the grenade in the long run because most of these B------es eat try to eat their mates every 4 to 7 years. However, the world is much the way it is because of women, who bring children into the world, raise the babies and are the true bosses behind most men. So, don't tell me about women, there is damn good reason why every civilization and religion speak directly and indirectly PRO repression of women. WHY, because given their way and the power to fulfill their will destroys lives. You wanna bet?

Originally posted by bslade
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

While the question is definitely interesting, as others have hinted at before it seems that the OP is not as interested in an actual discussion on the subject as they are in hammering down their point. It is clear that you see men as inherently violent and I would guess this is because of either your own personal experience or that of someone close to you.

First of all, thanks for trying to discuss the topic without flying off the handle like so many others have already done. It's appreciated. I am genuinely interested in an actual discussion on the subject, but I also cannot ignore the statistics. I have known many great, non-violent men in my life, and I've known some who aren't as passive. This isn't so much about personal experience as it is about the facts. I don't want to insinuate that all men are violent, or that all women are sweet and wonderful. I know that's not the case. I mentioned this a couple of times in my OP.

My problem is with the hard numbers, and those are the amount of men in prison for violent crimes versus women in prison for violent crimes. Many more men are incarcerated than women. Whether that's because women are more crafty and more prone to get away with it, or because women truly don't commit as many crimes as men do, I don't know. All I want is that we as a society recognize that the crimes committed are mainly committed by males, and it's a problem that needs looking into.

Fact is that whenever we're in a dangerous situation, it is a male or a group of males that we fear. It is undeniable. That being said, I have been in situations where I was somewhat fearful of being near a group of certain females. It happened maybe twice or three times in my life, and unfortunately I've had these fearful experiences with men on a far more extensive basis. Why are women afraid of going into dark garages by themselves? Why are they afraid to go jogging at night? Why do we watch our children like hawks when they play in the park? Because we fear that a bad "guy" will come along and hurt us. Could the perpetrator be a woman? Absolutely, but it just doesn't happen as often. I'm not looking to make men the "bad guy", it just happens that way on more occasions than seems fair. Is it so bad to mention this problem and try to examine how it might be resolved?

You've compiled some crime statistics that show that more men are convicted of crimes/violent crimes/etc. That's a decent start at backing up the point you're trying to make but it's far from enough to convince any reasonable person that somehow the world would be a better place without men. While the lens you're seeing the world through right now might now allow it, make no mistake: women have a capacity for violence and aggression just like men.

I am NOT arguing for a world without men, nor did I ever say that women were not capable of horrific things. I say this in my OP. I'm asking questions. There's a question mark in my title as well. Ideally I wish to find a way to reduce violent crime among males. I'd like a world filled with men and women, without the unbelievable crime statistics that we have today. The question I pose is; What's different about the men who do not hurt people or commit crimes, and those who do? How can we implement these changes in men prone to act violently and reduce violent crime?

I would guess that a hypothetical woman, if pushed or hit by her boyfriend or husband, would call the police and report it. I would guess that a hypothetical man, if pushed or hit by his girlfriend, would leave. I had a friend in a relationship where this situation actually played out. A buddy of mine was dating a girl who was occasionally volatile and violent and would slap and punch him. He never fought back and never called the police because he didn't want to put her through being arrested. Instead he just left. Believe it or not, most guys (that I have known) will not hurt a woman under almost any circumstance. We really LIKE women.

You're right that many women would report it, but there's also many domestic violence cases in which women do not call the police, because they do not wish their abusive husbands or boyfriends arrested. It works both ways. If a man is being abused by his woman but he is too embarrassed to admit it, it's difficult. Just know that many women who are being abused also feel the same way. They don't want their friends or family to know, and are afraid of revenge if they are responsible for sending their violent boyfriend or husband to jail. Whether it's a woman or a man committing such a crime, it's equally wrong.

Please don't mistake my post for excusing any violence committed by anyone, whether a man hurting another man, a man hurting a woman, or a woman hurting a man or woman. If there's one thing that I would think everyone can get behind it's a reduction in violence. If, however, you insist on insisting that violence and aggression are purely male problems, you're delusional.

I understand what you're saying, and no, I am not insisting that violence is exclusive to the male gender. I'm insisting that most violent crimes are committed by the male gender. That means that women commit some of those crimes, and men commit most of those crimes (at least according to statistics).

One of my biggest problems with the way you conduct your 'discussions' is that you've mentioned that 'rapists and murderers' wouldn't be welcome in 'your world' and asked if they're necessary in 'other people's worlds'. That is a ridiculous phrasing of a question that you already know the answer to. It's phrased in a way to try to force the other person to say what you want them to say, namely, that men are violent. What I think you may be failing to realize is that rapists and murderers aren't welcome in the ACTUAL world that we all actually live in. We put them in jail.. and count them.. and report statistics on them.. (the ones you're currently using to make your point).

You look at it in a way that would suggest that I want everyone to believe that all men are inherently violent. My question for you is this: If the statistics were reversed and showed that 86% of the prisoner population is female while only 18% of them are male, how would you look at it? What conclusion would you come to? If the statistics didn't show a 50/50, 60/40 or even 70/30, wouldn't you be surprised? Wouldn't you wonder why they are the way they are? It's what made me wonder. I wasn't expecting that difference, and up until the dolphin article came up, I wasn't thinking about it at all.

Finally, since this is ATS, I'll ask you this question: If at any point earth is invaded by an alien species, do you want men to be around? Maybe some of our more rugged traits would come in handy then.

edit on 3-6-2011 by bslade because: spelling

I don't want to rid the planet of men. I think I make that clear in my OP. I also have no issues with physical strength being used in a defensive manner. My issue is only with using strength to hurt or kill others for pleasure or money. If bad aliens invaded the planet, I'd fight right next to you, trying to save the human race.

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
A guy punches another guy i the face because he tried hitting on his girlfriend . What the guy didn't know was that while he was buying his girlfriend her drink she was makin eyes at the guy now laying on the floor. Just because one doesn't actually do the violence does not mean one is not violent in nature. People are violent in general. Men and women. The world would be different but not better off. Women have been groomed to have their punches thrown with the bat of an eye or a revealing cut of a dress.

The guy who threw the punch is an idiot, then, and allows women FAR too much control over him. He is truly less than a man, more on the order of a lap dog. There is not a woman on the planet Worth bruising one's knuckles over in such a scenario. Been there, done that. I watch the WOMAN as well as the guy. If she doesn't protest right up front, she can ride home in HIS car. I don't need her in mine. If she'll do it in that place, she'll do it anywhere.

Here's the deal. If she don't say "no, I'm with someone" to him, than she AIN'T with someone, she's on the prowl. Who needs her? If she says "no" and he's still persistent, then, and ONLY then, does it behoove me to step in and explain the ways of the world to him. If SHE doesn't say "no", how can I fault HIM for being male? As far as I'm concerned, HE has her at that point, and I want nothing more to do with her.

Let him bruise HIS knuckles on the next guy - and make no mistake, there WILL be a "next guy".

Oh yeah, pretty deep subject.

Why do you underachievers waste energy with this sheet.

Maybe it's past time for you and your ignorant ilk to grow up and join the world of educated adults

Obviously you fall short on many counts.

Goodbye.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
I want to make clear from the very beginning that my intention is not to bash men

...that's a good one after reading the entire post and your replies.

I'm sorry for whatever created your paradigm. Seriously.

I rather enjoy being man just sayin, so no a world without men wouldn't be better because then I wouldn't be around. And since I don't plan on having a sex change anytime in the future I think I will chose existence over non. In other words I have met several crazy ladies I would never ever trust with running the world. Take the one that wears a black hood and calls herself the prophet of god's unwillingness. No joke pass her almost every week. She goes around flipping people off at random, drinking water from puddles, and uttering none sense. It's down right scary so should I chose her to rule the world over the people currently doing so???? Hard choice on that one.