A female Navy Seal? not yet.

Originally posted by NoClue206
I didn't like serving next to them when I was in the marines, I joined a all male MOS in the national guard so I didn't have to deal with their unstable mood swings. They just tend to get more emotional then men when stress is put on them. They can deal with a lot of stress but I wouldn't bet my life on it, and that's what it really comes down to.

Again I served with men - IN COMBAT- and watched them cry and wet their pants so stop this. It really comes down to the individual. I also worked around men that I could have sworn had their own monthly cycle.

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
reply to post by Lovebringer

 

Maybe you should do some research and find out these 'stereotypical' answers that women have higher pain threshold doesnt fly, with no factual evidence. Women feel more pain then men and tend to focus on the feelings they get from the pain, men focus on the pain itself the sensory aspect. And woman are supposed to have the children, why do them have a womb for a baby? Women respond to pain different then men, read this article, and maybe understand the difference.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Our research has shown that whilst the sensory-focused strategies used by men helped increase their pain threshold and tolerance of pain, it was unlikely to have any benefit for women,” said Dr Keogh.

Working with the Royal National Hospital for Rheumatic Diseases in Bath, researchers from the Pain Management Unit carried out assessments on 98 patients in chronic pain as they went through a pain management programme involving physiotherapy, psychological treatments and occupational therapy.

Whilst both men and women exhibited a significant reduction in pain intensity both during and immediately after the programme, three months later women reported the same levels of pain as pre-treatment, whereas men’s remained the same as immediately post-treatment. Interestingly, there were improvements in disability, in both sexes, which were maintained at follow-up. This suggested that there may also be important differences in pain experiences and improvements in disability.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Also, just because women can withstand childbearing does not mean they have a higher pain threshold. Women tend to focus on the feeling of the pain, men do not. Women are endurance pain takers, they are designed to take pain over a period of time like have a 20 hour labor for example. But women do not take a bullet to the leg very well initially, or a punch to the chops, and a knife to the back.

Men can take impact pain better than women, and women can take long drawn out pain better than men. And quit trying to play the 'women have labour so they withstand pain better' card . Someone has to be the backup in the group, you cant have all warriors, whos gonna be the medic, or the cook, or the dispatch, whos watching the children? Roles designed for the class ie sex, stick to them.

Look pal, if the woman can pass the test, training and hell week WITHOUT THE STANDARDS being lowered, then I see no reason why she should not get the same chance. If you are so convinced that a woman WOULD fail at doing this, then you shouldn't feel threatened with the prospect that maybe a woman might get through.

I am all for women serving at the traditional roles, my sister was in the army during desert storm. However regulating any and all women ( even qualified women) to the regulated roles is a bit ridiculous. No where did i say women tolerated pain better. I said they COULD tolerate pain. So.... putting words in my mouth much?

Not all of us our content to lay on our backs and pop out brats like baby factories. Some of us want to do other things with our lives. Maybe a woman will never be in the SF, but that doesn't mean you get to regulate us to kitchen drudges or brood mares tyvm.

I believe that the male and female mentality would cause problems in certain situations and i'm pretty sure that the men would rather have a fellow male watching his back....just like i'm sure a woman would want another woman watching hers.
I also believe that some doors should remain closed for certain jobs for between the sexes because lets face it....there are some things women can do better and some things men can do better.

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
reply to post by Becoming

 

Let me clarify that for you; obviously you didn't understand; otherwise I'm sure you wouldn't have been so rude as to insinuate I was lying, it was 4 weeks after I had my daughter. Understand now? Once again don't presume to tell me what I've done or not done.

I still don't believe you.

You are talking to a career soldier and I'm not buying your brand. You are trying to make yourself look tough when you was enlisted to make a point. The problem is that your story is just that.

When the basic standard is equal for everyone then we can talk about women joining the elite. When a woman has to do only 17 pushups to pass then I don't want to hear how women want equal rights in the military.

reply to post by Redwookieaz


Its not sexist to point out the differences between males and females and pointing out where one sex could not meet the required standards for a job.Males and females are built differently in more then one way and each sex has its own role to play......in this case.....being a SF soldier is not one for the women.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Women actually feel more pain then men due to more pain receptors but they cannot handle the pain well.

Damn more women just wanting to menstrate everywhere. Damn them for having the ability to bleed for 7 days and not die.
I have so much to say on this topic but I fell I might explode into a cascading waterfall of estrogen and tears.
To all the men who say that women can't handle stress why is it the second a women says she's pregnant most men run for the mountains screaming, "It's not mine! It's not mine!"
Also people's ignorance on rape is a tad disturbing.Rape is about power and as for men not getting raped just look at our prison system.
With that being said, I say screw the navy seals. Women should form their own elite group. If you don't want us in fine. But let's see who does better and end this debate.

I am interested to know about female CIA types. Obviously they have them. Women in some circumstances could excell in intellegence gathering and even in a way that most men cannot. My friend who served with many SEALs down in Panama said if any country wanted to really find out our secrets our operational mission status all they had to do was send in a beautiful woman to hang out in a SEAL bar because macho, alcohol and a beautiful woman and the canaries sing.

I think we miss the point. Women can be very effective operational tools in the right mission and their gifts might not lie in brawn and proving themselves on a SEAL team but in specialized covert operations and I would bet some dollars there are women doing these things right now as I type and they don't have to go through BUDs to be effective.

I want you to know I could easily kill for my safety and the safety of my team. I have been tested in this aspect during OIF. I also want to point out the special forces are operationally different and most likely psychologically as well. However - I have seen "normal" men "freak out" in situations while deployed where I remained level headed. I was selected for what I did, out of my MOS in a special forces operating location because I could work in chem gear for extended periods without freaking out and probably because after years of working with my chain of command they knew I could be depended on and yes I was selected over several males for the position because they would freak out. I don't know if is a good quality or not - or genetic or not - but I become "a robot" when SHTF and I manage to perform in "a zone" that I only come down from when the situation has cleared.

When it comes right down to it I would like to select my team, because it isn't the gender that determines who can get the job done it is the individual. By the way I never knew what the female PT standards even were because I never was interested in the minimum like some MALES and FEMALES - I was interested in doing my personal best at all times and I far exceeded even the male standards. The reason I did this was because I depended on my body to be in top physical shape, and thus probably why I could work comfortably in the gear when the fat old guys could not.

Women may not be on special forces or Seal teams but they are doing things in theater, classified things that the mainstream doesn't know about or even sometimes the men and women they work with on the other side of the base. In War, during War a lot of procedures go in the round file and some sterotypes go in there too.

Originally posted by freedom12
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

Not to explain how the female body works for you, but when women menstrate, a paticular smell is emitted. In the jungle, where smells are even more important, this could give away location of your forces.

Lol... what?

I'm not a dog! I dont know if the girl next door is menstruating! Are you nuts? I had to get my nose really, REALLY up close and PERSONAL with the girl next door know that.

This is kinda crazy lol...

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
Also one thing I forgot to say, have you heard the saying "a pig can find an occassional truffle". There is occasions when a woman can do better than a man. But on the whole scale of things, when you average all the women out compared to the men, they are just not into combat, SEAL, military type training and work.

Just because a handfull of women over a hundred years have passed the tests, courses and training, doesnt mean that all can do it. Same goes for the men, many men dont pass either. If you want to compare them statistically, compare apples with apples, and dont compensate the tests because they are a woman. Make it the same, and if some pass, good for them. But it does happen, the more times the women get into training, the more will pass, making it seem like women are capable as much as men.

I just dont understand why women dont want to be 'women' and work with children, cook, clean, design furniture, run bake sales, sell cookware and clothing. Arent the malls filled with more womens shopping stores than mens? And the most business in the market is geared towards womans apparel and appearance?

What do little girls do when they are small? They play with dolls, stuffed animals, dress-up, tea parties, and like to serve. And if you ask a little girl what she wants to do when she grows up, its either a teacher, nurse, cook, florist, costume designer, veternarian etc.....

What do little boys do when they are small? They build forts, smash things, act like warrior and play with action figures, and fight aliens and zombies or whatever. If you ask a little boy what he wants to do when he grows up, its either a lawyer, truck driver, 'be like my dad', be in the army, be the president, etc etc.....

So why when these grow up, the women decide now, 'I want to fight like the man' and do mans things?
And how come men don't say "Oh I want to be a florist or work in a day care"?

Because its not hardwired into our brains. Girls like these sorts of things, boys like these sorts of things.
Why change it? Its worked for a very long time.

You do realize this isn't the 50's anymore?

reply to post by Vanishr


the rape argument is so dumb. If you are going to be tortured then being raped is a lot less painfull than what the enemy will do to you and thats a risk the person has to accept themsleves. Many soldiers whenm facing capture nowerdays would rather opt for suicide as well and its even encouraged in the forces over hear, They tell you that you will be horrifically tortured and its better to die by you own hand. I suspect this is also because they dont want you giving any information away as well.

The main problem is the ohysical training and the attitude faced by the other soldiers. If women because stronger over the years than I say no problem, the menstral cycle thing is a dumb argument too because you can take the pill and not go through your period if you are a women so you wont have that issue. The main problem is the physical demand, especially considering every man has to be able to carry every other man in the squad. I dont think even a very strong women could carry the largest male in a squad sifficiently if they had to.

Originally posted by Becoming

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
reply to post by Becoming

 

Let me clarify that for you; obviously you didn't understand; otherwise I'm sure you wouldn't have been so rude as to insinuate I was lying, it was 4 weeks after I had my daughter. Understand now? Once again don't presume to tell me what I've done or not done.

I still don't believe you.

You are talking to a career soldier and I'm not buying your brand. You are trying to make yourself look tough when you was enlisted to make a point. The problem is that your story is just that.

When the basic standard is equal for everyone then we can talk about women joining the elite. When a woman has to do only 17 pushups to pass then I don't want to hear how women want equal rights in the military.

Exactly, I think the point is being missed here, the fact that the STANDARDS ARE NOT STANDARD! When women have to do exactly the same physical tasks asked of men then YES they can come in droves to try, but having weaker standards does not help the situation as it has in the police force, or firefighting.

reply to post by Heartisblack


Also one thing I would like to add, when a man has an adrenaline rush, he can pick up a car and save a woman or child, he can leap something fierce through a fire like a firefighter, or run into combat like a maniac and sacrifice himself for the better of the platoon. Men are willing to sacrifice themselves for the women, and for some reason the women dont think the same.

Why would you hate kids (properly called children)????? What is wrong with you? Do you not know who made this Earth? And who made you for the matter? I am completely disgusted at that answer and appalled!

Sounds like your the type of person who has a grudge against someone for something traumatic in your life and feels that you should deal with it by bashing others or denying fact. I can see you would be pro abortion (aka pro death or anti-life) from your attitude towards children. What did the child ever do to you, he/she doesnt understand they are a child! They grow up in this world looking for a role model of a female and you hate them? What kind of sick minded person would hate children....especially a woman??? Seems like our Creator Yahuwah, who you seem to not believe in, is gonna teach you what your purpose was the hard way.

It seems to me, the women who cant accept the fact men are the ones in charge and are the driving force in this world, hate their lives and hate anything that is 'female oriented' and want to be men.

Fact of the matter, the standards should be set equal for both sexes, and let the best of the best be chosen. It may surprise you who it is.

Everyone is still stressing on the physical demands and ability to cope with stress while ignoring the whole issue of unit cohesion. I don't believe you will find one alpha male who believe's a women can do as good a job as himself. Men are stronger, more violent, and more instinctually capable of killing. If one male member of the team, and make no mistake there will always be a male majority, feels doubt about a womens ability to do her job then the cohesion and trust isn't there. These people risk their lives and cannot have doubts about team members.

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
reply to post by Heartisblack

 

Also one thing I would like to add, when a man has an adrenaline rush, he can pick up a car and save a woman or child, he can leap something fierce through a fire like a firefighter, or run into combat like a maniac and sacrifice himself for the better of the platoon. Men are willing to sacrifice themselves for the women, and for some reason the women dont think the same.

Why would you hate kids (properly called children)????? What is wrong with you? Do you not know who made this Earth? And who made you for the matter? I am completely disgusted at that answer and appalled!

Sounds like your the type of person who has a grudge against someone for something traumatic in your life and feels that you should deal with it by bashing others or denying fact. I can see you would be pro abortion (aka pro death or anti-life) from your attitude towards children. What did the child ever do to you, he/she doesnt understand they are a child! They grow up in this world looking for a role model of a female and you hate them? What kind of sick minded person would hate children....especially a woman??? Seems like our Creator Yahuwah, who you seem to not believe in, is gonna teach you what your purpose was the hard way.

It seems to me, the women who cant accept the fact men are the ones in charge and are the driving force in this world, hate their lives and hate anything that is 'female oriented' and want to be men.

Fact of the matter, the standards should be set equal for both sexes, and let the best of the best be chosen. It may surprise you who it is.

edit on 2-6-2011 by Seektruthalways1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-6-2011 by Seektruthalways1 because: (no reason given)

Are you delusional? So if a woman does not want children, she wants to be a man? That is what I am getting from this. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe some women just do not want to have kids? Some women just don't have the desire to bear children. It's not about wanting to be a man, it's about personal choice. Get over yourself.

reply to post by armtx


How long have women been allowed to participate in sports? How long have been been allowed to participate in sports? How much is the athletic industry focused on women, and how long on men? Which sex is geared from birth to participate in sports?
Fact is, from the moment a woman is born, she is already at a disadvantage in the athletic field. Men have already had thousands of years of training and encouragement and science, while women have only had a few decades. Who gets the most funding?

If you took a new breed of horse and raced them against a thorobred, of course the thorobred will win, they have been bred for centuries to be runners.

Now that women sports are getting more attention in sports, the gap will lessen. Since female runners are now allowed to compete, the race times for female runners has been steadily increasing. And in a few decades will catch up to men.

I have experienced this kind of athletic discrimination myself. We had a fundraising in highschool for new weight room equipment. The women's class raised twice as much money as the mens class and requested a piece of leg machinery. All the money went to equipment for the football team.

So when all things are created equal, and it will be a long time before they are, you will see the fitness gap close.

reply to post by Lovebringer


Childbirth? no disrespect but laying there screaming because you are experiencing pain isn't really enduring it and isn't justifying women taking pain.

Originally posted by Viking9019
reply to post by Lovebringer

 

Childbirth? no disrespect but laying there screaming because you are experiencing pain isn't really enduring it and isn't justifying women taking pain.

A point to you! After all you have successfully lived through childbirth right? oh....wait. I'd say if you successfully manage to pop the brat out, that you've endured the pain. Of course, I could be wrong.

reply to post by Heartisblack


Damn thats a little harsh

Originally posted by seraphnb
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

Yes. A woman should be allowed to be a Marine.
Emphasis on "should".
If a male Marine is captured, then he is either tortured, or put in prison, or killed.
However, they can do millions times worse things to women.

Think about it.

SeraphNB

You have never been tortured have you.
Torture is torture even if you are a male or a female.
Hardly anyone gets the same treatment,
some get it worse then others.
It all depends on who is doing the torturing.
And it will probably suck to be a victim either way.