The quiet before the storm. Just so you can't say that you werent warned.

Originally posted by Fatgoblin
Why do dumb threads like this stretch for 18 pages but all the real cool threads die down after 4-5 pages?

Says a lot about ATS'ers actually.

(Yes including me. Gah!!!)

If you think this thread is dumb than I think you have your answer why your threads stay where they are....

Originally posted by Brianegan
...God is always right. If you wish to go against right, what else could you be but wrong?

By your argument, If God is always right, then 'he' was right in giving us free will. And since 'he' created us, nothing we could do is 'wrong'.

Everything is right on track. We are all one. You'll see someday.

Everything in this life - even the horrible things - are all for learning purposes.

Originally posted by TheReturnisNear
reply to post by TheReturnisNear

 

We are in the age of dichotomy. Never before has hunger and obesity both been a plague in the world at the same time. Never before has so much information about the past, present and future been available to the average person but at the same time, simpletons have turned off any ability to process the information. Instead, turning to crude behavior and talk show hosts to explain things to them, and when that fails they complain. The age of dichotomy is marked by complaining about having to process information. But without critical analysis and time away from the TV, the information is not processed and therefore contributions that are made to the discussion are either simpleton or outright complaint.

It may seem bad now but i assure you it is the quiet before the storm........

Originally posted by imawlinn
reply to post by Brianegan

 

I made it to "gift from god"
I'm out ,peace!

So why write anything? Just to say i was here......Are you that important of a person inside your head?

This thread is meant for those like you so running away is not going to make me chase you....Ill let you go and dig your own grave so to speak......Im not threatining ikm warning you about what you might end up doing to yourself....

You have been warned...

Originally posted by ellieN
Brianegan....It is good that you have found your path that is comforting to you. But each of us has our own path to find. Some may join you on your journey and others will still search for their own light. This one is yours and it seems maybe you are where you are suppose to be now.
Your choice is not for all. I see you defend yourself as if you needed to. Not necessary, if you are happy with your revelation, then what others think of it should not matter to you. What I am getting from you is...you are thrilled at what has come to you and can't really understand why others are not getting it.
You talk about free will, but free will only have a certain level that it available to all of us, a lot depends on where you live. You have individual free will ..yes, but again that could be limited and influenced by where you live.
You have your ten commandments and the laws of the land that you abide by. Your culture also influences your decisions on a level that is unsuspecting. What you wear, eat, activities you take your kids to be a part of, the family that depends on you ..and duties that is expected of you. Much of it is culturally ingrained. It is what we do without thinking about it.
There is always an under lying cause that spurs any of us to make a decision.
Maybe all our chaotic free will down the line just could have a directive or order that is just not understood yet and possibly a later purpose for our misery.

edit on 1-6-2011 by ellieN because: added a word

Your choice is made then......You choose to retain your free will and claim allegence to yourself over god......I hope you change your mind in time but if so i would hurry up.....

Originally posted by IncrementEthicalAnarchy
Nice effort in the thread, read as much as i humanly could.

One query... the premise that we were not 'gifted' free will but asked for it against gods advice.

1) God, being god, would give the best possible advice in the universe. Why would we disregard it?

2) How could we - when in a state of having no free will and gods will being our immediate task - even contemplate disregarding his advice or indeed to ask for it in the first place? It seems the only possible way for us to have requested free will whilst not utilizing free will would be for god to want to supply it.

a few humble observations, IET.

It was disregarded when one question turned into many questions coming from many mouths until the very intention of god was doubted........You began to think he had lost his touch and instead of ceasing the questions...Many revolted.

Its not a matter of having no free will but if he says something to you its not a choice to listen if you trust him above all others including yourself....You wouldnt be a zombie,,,, you would be safe.....If you are doing whats right he doesnt need to speak to you in any other manner other than how much he loves you.....

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
Brian, forgive me for being forward, (acknowledged,) and out of all of the travels and failures I have overcome to realize a certain truth, God has been there guiding and gently and sometimes not so gently prodding me to notice the things necessary for my continued spiritual growth and maturity. People may play a part in this, but personally, the relationship I have endeavored to build with God has been one of great strife, and is the most rewarding reason why I exist today and hopefully tomorrow.

With this said, I, as a person, do not require forgiveness from anyone, let alone yourself, to validate every step of the struggle along the way. I really don't require it, but I must ask you this:

"If you were placed in the role of judging another's merits and intentions, what did God say to me last year, about this exact time in the year, to start another journey into faith?" Specifics are very important.

If you don't know or can't answer this, then I'll know you are not who you say you are, but if you can, this is your chance to "convince" me of your legitimacy.

Speak wise, or hold your tongue from profane ramblings of gossip-mongering; but you have this one chance. But, as no forgiveness is necessary from you to myself, know that you are forgiven for anything you "are about to do," or "say." You cannot hold everyone's manifest destiny in your hands and crush it then shape it to your liking. That's what this lesson is about isn't it? Free Will. The only way is to let things run their course and happen as they should without any influence, unless the influence is so important as inaction would risk the existence of everything that is, by not not acting or speaking.

Here is the position, as stated:

"If you were placed in the role of judging another's merits and intentions, what did God say to me last year, about this exact time in the year, to start another journey into faith?" Specifics are very important.

I await your reply.

You judge in your second parapraph.....It doesnt matter if you are right or wrong......It is the fact you feel worthy to judge in the first place........No matter what relationshp you believe to have doesnt mean he believes its the same type as you do.........Im sure youll understand that..........


Specifics are not your buisness to know.

Originally posted by imawlinn
reply to post by TheReturnisNear

 

Boy who crapped in your corn flakes? There is no God so he's not coming back. And I won't be held accountable for anything. The bible is a book of fiction. Now drink your kool aid and lie down and wait!

Kool aid is pretty delicious but yeah im pretty scared after the corn flake incident.....Your opinion will not save you.

Originally posted by pirhanna
Thanks! There's been a real lack of people warning me lately.

edit on 1-6-2011 by pirhanna because: (no reason given)

I agree

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Love you two op13.......So very much.

Originally posted by TheReturnisNear

Originally posted by imawlinn
reply to post by TheReturnisNear

 

Boy who crapped in your corn flakes? There is no God so he's not coming back. And I won't be held accountable for anything. The bible is a book of fiction. Now drink your kool aid and lie down and wait!

OK. I drink gatorade so I have no koolaid on hand. Nor do I eat cornflakes so I have no worries about anyone crapping in them. As for the bible being a book of fiction, you are not looking around. More and more findings by archeologists point to more and more facts that the bible is probably not fiction albeit an incomplete and possibly even changed account of actual events.

lol

Originally posted by warren3720
Amen

I see you......Please stick around

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by gabby2011

 

There is always free will...only consequences

Ok..so what if the consequences of doing the right thing may hurt others..many have died and left family behind,because they dared try to stop something that was wrong.

The consequences of someones free will also impede anothers free will.

All I was trying to say,was that for many,there is no choice , because if they make the choice that they would choose , the consequences are dire..and that does not seem to be much of a free choice.

One must include all of the rules when obeying them, and not just the ones that are most convienient at the time........

They are there for a good reason and important reason that you do not understand.

The truth is God is real and alot of what you said is more true than anyone wants to belive, and its not what most would expect, but we have an idea. I often wonder if that is what this is about, we had fell in a sort of spirtual sense or this was necessary to fufill a purpose of guaranteed sucess in spite of impossible odds, but thats a classic thing people will ask, if god is all powerful then he had known that adam and eve would sin,


Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Job 38:4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


The reality of what is at play here is truly a design of God, a plan of salvation. And thats why you must confess it, and accept it. There could be no other way. Otherwise its not genuine.

Originally posted by MiloNickels

Originally posted by john124
As soon as you mentioned god I stopped reading, and I'm guessing most other readers will as well.

yeah... that's where he lost me too...
ANY time someone tells you that the information you are about to hear is the most important information you will EVER hear... and the next statement has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with god... I roll my eyes and move on...

That is your own fault and no longer forgivable. Be aware that you are held acountable even if you play neutral.

Originally posted by Scytherius
reply to post by Brianegan

 

There is no God so your entire premise fails. Nice try, though.

You opinion wont save you anymore.....You have had more than enough ages on this planet to figure it out and put it all together.......Times up......Its now being recorded and will be included.

Originally posted by imawlinn
reply to post by TheReturnisNear

 

More and more evidence that the bible is "probably" true? Care to elaborate? Because the way I see it, evidence can be manipulated to say what ever you want it to. Now I will agree with you on one thing, the bible is a changed account of acTual events. Actual event- mass flooding due to natural climate cycles. Bibles depiction- god floodeth the land to scour the earth of the vermin! Fricken joke.

edit on 1-6-2011 by imawlinn because: (no reason given)

tell them that

reply to post by Brianegan


You say that the angels don't have free will, and yet, there are fallen angels. If you believe that mankind is a created being than you'd realize the distinction between human and angel.

God did say, "let us create man in our image" so what did He mean and who else was He referring to when He said, "us?"

As for free will, we all have a rebellious side to us and at the same time we all have the ability to have compassion, is it something that we are just ingrained with, or is it spiritual influences that make us the way we are?

And in one of your other threads about waking up from a dream, some of us do really wake up from that dream state that so many others live in but don't even realize it.

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
Let's define "Free Will," shall we?

free will
n.
1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

With this said, Free Will, allows human beings to be able to choose. Simply put, without it, and in the context of this OP, why would we exist or for that matter, why would God exist? To be unable to choose to follow God or believe in a Higher Reality or Existence would not matter, since we wouldn't have decided it for ourselves first.

The main "bone of contention," here now is one where-in human beings, through the exercise of "Free Will," continue to either choose their own "will," or accept and take-up God's yoke of Divine Will. It's really as simple as this.

I highly doubt God would require a monotonous convoluted path to "accept" divine will; and if you find yourself in this situation, perhaps an agency, under direction from God or a Divine Subordinate is testing the ability to choose effectively? Perhaps.

And also perhaps, the intent of this OP, is less than honorable would be an equally valid conclusion.

But in any case, Brian, your preaching to the choir, on this one. And having a very limited way of receiving the message your are conveying, any lack of form or fashion will lessen the impact and make this OP seem as self-serving and being much puffed-up.

I have the distinct idea that the people here that have posted are light-years away from your target audience or are you testing yourself by bouncing things off the wall as we reply?

This was never a place to hold the punished......It was a place to teach those punishing themselves.......It was never meant to be permanent......Dont get comfy bc things are about to change and in a big way...Mark my words

Originally posted by OldCorp
OK, I'm gonna take a swipe at this.

I see two questions raised by the OP:

1. Why does God allow suffering.
2. Why is free will so important.

If I'm missing something, please let me know.

There is a lot of suffering in the world. Why would a supposedly loving God allow this to happen?

I believe God is the creator of the human race (and possibly other races as well,) making Him for all intents and purposes our Father, just as I am the father of my children. What does any parent want for their child? To grow. To grow intellectually, to grow emotionally, and eventually to grow a family of their own. In order to grow, we must experience; love, loss, joy, pain... all of these things teach us something.

God is not as concerned as some people would like to think with our day to day lives. I mean let's face it, what are 60-70 years spent as a mortal being here on Earth when you compare it to an afterlife that will last for eternity? Nothing, nada, zip, and zilch. He's concerned with our immortal souls.

So what does God want? I believe He, like any father, wants his children to be happy, to be successful, and to expand His family by having children of their own; children who will pass on His ideals to the next generation. God wants to be a grampa. He wants to look into the faces of His offspring and see Himself reflected in them. This is where free will comes in.

Think for a second about love. Would you be satisfied with the most beautiful woman, or most handsome man, in the world if you had to force that person to be with you? Which would be preferable when it comes to love, someone who wants to be with you or someone you have chained up in the basement? I think for most normal people the answer is obvious.

God doesn't want a bunch of mindless automatons bowing down to worship Him all of the time. Where is the satisfaction in that? You can train monkeys, or dogs, to do that. God wants us to WANT to be with Him. He wants us to WANT to do what is right. He wants us to WANT to be part of His eternal family. That my friends is where free will comes in.

So yeah, in my opinion God has emotions just like any other intelligent being. Actually, it's not just my opinion as you can find examples of God's emotions throughout the Bible. He gets angry, He feels remorse, He is compassionate, He feels love, and like everyone else He wants to be loved for who He is, and not what He can do for us. By allowing our temporary bodies to endure suffering, God is allowing us to grow. Think about how often you tell your own children things like, "Don't touch the stove, it's hot and you'll get burned," or "That kid is no good, if you hang out with him you're just going to get into trouble."

Now think about how often they listen to you.

The only way people learn anything is through first hand experience. You can warn your children about possible dangers until you're blue in the face, but until they experience the consequences of their actions themselves they will never understand what it has taken you a lifetime to learn. God knows this. He has given us plenty of warnings. He even gave us 10 rules to live by, forming a basis for the way he wants His children to grow. God wants the members of His eternal family to reflect His values, just like any other parent.

And then He wants us to pass these values down to the next generation; but that's a whole other discussion for a whole other thread.

I hope that made sense.

edit on 6/1/2011 by OldCorp because: (no reason given)

I asked no such things.