The quiet before the storm. Just so you can't say that you werent warned.

Originally posted by britt
I like this idea. It makes since. Thanks.

Formalities are always nice but the time for them have passed for now and will return later. Be warned please because you seem to be able to understand how to take heed and why...

Originally posted by TheInterceptor
reply to post by Brianegan

 

I stopped reading when you said you "literally fell off your high horse". I'v get 10 bucks that says you don't even have a horse.

It reminded me of a David Cross bit when he rags on a guy that says "Dude that was so funny, i literally just #@!% my pants!"

I literally lost interest.

Interceptor

Nice message on your avatar...........Take your ten bucks and spend it on and open mind...

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Oh my dear friend, forgive me for being forward, but you make much sense.

This is exactly the message and the purpose of Free Will. Exactly!

You got the nail right on the head.

Bless you dear one!

Now, see, this is the good stuff, right here. All said succinctly and in a neat tidy package and done in four or five paragraphs, not 19 pages of wrangling!

Thank you so much, for expressing the purpose of this thread. Great explanation and I really hope there are more folks out there like you, and people like this, can make a huge difference.

Hiding what you are trying to say in a complement to another will never be a good thing or a good hiding place.

Originally posted by Fatgoblin

Originally posted by OldCorp
OK, I'm gonna take a swipe at this.

I see two questions raised by the OP:

1. Why does God allow suffering.
2. Why is free will so important.

If I'm missing something, please let me know.

There is a lot of suffering in the world. Why would a supposedly loving God allow this to happen?

I believe God is the creator of the human race (and possibly other races as well,) making Him for all intents and purposes our Father, just as I am the father of my children. What does any parent want for their child? To grow. To grow intellectually, to grow emotionally, and eventually to grow a family of their own. In order to grow, we must experience; love, loss, joy, pain... all of these things teach us something.

God is not as concerned as some people would like to think with our day to day lives. I mean let's face it, what are 60-70 years spent as a mortal being here on Earth when you compare it to an afterlife that will last for eternity? Nothing, nada, zip, and zilch. He's concerned with our immortal souls.

So what does God want? I believe He, like any father, wants his children to be happy, to be successful, and to expand His family by having children of their own; children who will pass on His ideals to the next generation. God wants to be a grampa. He wants to look into the faces of His offspring and see Himself reflected in them. This is where free will comes in.

Think for a second about love. Would you be satisfied with the most beautiful woman, or most handsome man, in the world if you had to force that person to be with you? Which would be preferable when it comes to love, someone who wants to be with you or someone you have chained up in the basement? I think for most normal people the answer is obvious.

God doesn't want a bunch of mindless automatons bowing down to worship Him all of the time. Where is the satisfaction in that? You can train monkeys, or dogs, to do that. God wants us to WANT to be with Him. He wants us to WANT to do what is right. He wants us to WANT to be part of His eternal family. That my friends is where free will comes in.

So yeah, in my opinion God has emotions just like any other intelligent being. Actually, it's not just my opinion as you can find examples of God's emotions throughout the Bible. He gets angry, He feels remorse, He is compassionate, He feels love, and like everyone else He wants to be loved for who He is, and not what He can do for us. By allowing our temporary bodies to endure suffering, God is allowing us to grow. Think about how often you tell your own children things like, "Don't touch the stove, it's hot and you'll get burned," or "That kid is no good, if you hang out with him you're just going to get into trouble."

Now think about how often they listen to you.

The only way people learn anything is through first hand experience. You can warn your children about possible dangers until you're blue in the face, but until they experience the consequences of their actions themselves they will never understand what it has taken you a lifetime to learn. God knows this. He has given us plenty of warnings. He even gave us 10 rules to live by, forming a basis for the way he wants His children to grow. God wants the members of His eternal family to reflect His values, just like any other parent.

And then He wants us to pass these values down to the next generation; but that's a whole other discussion for a whole other thread.

I hope that made sense.

edit on 6/1/2011 by OldCorp because: (no reason given)

For someone who has never met, spoken to or heard from god you sure have him all figured out.

You would know god if you looked for him with love in your heart........You are the one who stays away from him not in reverse

I just shared this on another thread which talks about the same thing in a different manner.

Here is just a part of what Edgar Cayce had to say. Please visit the link and read for yourself another way to view humanity and free will! Thanks!! ;-)

The idea that returning to God means a loss of individuality is paradoxical, since God is aware of everything that happens and must therefore be aware of the consciousness of each individual. The return of the soul is the return of the image to that which imagined it. The consciousness of the individual - its soul record - could not be destroyed without destroying a part of God. When a soul returns to God it becomes aware of itself not only as a part of God, but as a part of every other soul, and everything. What is lost is the ego - the desire to do other than the desire of God. When the soul returns to God, the ego is voluntarily relinquished. This is the symbology behind the crucifixion of Christ. The plan for the soul included experiencing of all creation, but it did not necessarily mean participating in all forms and substance. Nor did it mean that souls can interfere with the creation. Nor did it mean that souls are to spin their own little worlds, twisting and bending laws to make images of their dreams. But these things could happen. The soul was the greatest thing that God made because it has free will. Once free will was given, God did nothing to curb it. However it acted, it had to act within God's reality. By whatever route, the soul will return to God. The fact that the human body is a speck of dust on a small planet in a universe of galaxies can lead to the illusion that humans are a small creation. But the soul is the unlimited activity of the mind and the grandeur of imagination. At first there was little difference between the consciousness of the new individual (i.e., soul) and its consciousness of identity with God (i.e., spirit). Souls merely watched the flow of the Mind, somewhat as people daydreaming, marveling at its power and versatility. Then souls began to act itself, imitating and paralleling what Mind was doing. Gradually souls acquired experience, becoming a complementary rather than an imitative force. It helped to extend, modify, and regulate creation. Certain souls became aggressive with their own power and began to experiment with it. They mingled with the dust of the stars and the winds of the spheres - feeling them - and becoming part of them. One result of this was an unbalance between the positive and negative forces. To feel things demanded the negative force. To express through things (and directing and managing them) required the positive force. Another result of souls becoming aggressive with their own power was the gradual weakening of the link between the two states of consciousness (i.e., spirit and the soul). Some souls became more concerned with and aware of their own creations rather than God's. This resulted in the fall of certain souls to an even lower consciousness. The Bible allegorically refers to this event as the Fall in the Garden of Eden and the revolt of the angels in the Book of Revelation. This event is also the basis for the cosmology of Christian Gnosticism and Jewish mysticism. To enter into another level of creation and become part of it, the soul had to assume a new, or third consciousness - a physical form. Assuming a physical form is a way of experiencing that level of creation by means of a conscious mind (i.e., the third consciousness). Through the conscious mind, an individual can experience physical consciousness: the physical body, the five senses, the glandular and nervous systems. This transformation of consciousness does not apply everywhere at this level of creation. In other worlds and solar systems, the transformation may differ. One can only imagine the number of these other worlds and the aspects of divine mind which they represent. When a soul enters into another level of creation and its consciousness, it separated itself temporarily from the consciousness of its own soul, and became even further removed from the consciousness of its spirit. Thus, instead of helping to direct the flow of creation and contributing to it, the soul found itself in the stream and drifting along with it. The farther the soul traveled from the shore, the more it succumbed to the pull of the current and the more difficult was the task of getting back to land.

The article goes on to talk about the Planets and Solar System ..... I love this!!!!!!!!

Planets and solar systems became a temptation to souls. Each solar system had its own course and its own plan. Souls moved toward them through the activity of a constant stream of mind. When a soul leaped into the stream (by immersing itself in the system through which the stream was flowing) it had the force of the current to contend with, and its free will was hampered. It was very easy, under these circumstances, to drift with the current. Each solar system also represents an opportunity for development, advancement, and growth toward the ideal of complete companionship with God - the position of co-creator in the vast system of universal mind. Our solar system also attracted souls. Since each solar system is a single expression of the divine, with its planets as integral parts, the Earth came into the path of souls. Each solar system in the universe is like an atom in a universe of worlds. Atoms have quantum levels for electrons to travel around. The sun has "quantum levels" for planets to travel around. The planets of our solar system are physical representations of heavenly dimensions. These levels as a whole are the consciousness of our solar system. There are nine planetary/heavenly dimensions to the consciousness of our solar system. The planet Earth represents the third dimension. Earth represents three-dimensional life in our solar system. The Earth is an expression of Divine Mind with its own laws, its own plan, and its own evolution. Souls, longing to feel the beauty of the seas, the winds, the forest, and the flowers, mixed with them and expressed themselves through them. They also mingled with the animals, and made thought forms in imitation of them. Souls played at creating and imitated God. But this interfered with the evolutionary plan of the Earth. Thus, the stream of mind that was carrying out this plan for the Earth gradually drew souls into its current. Souls had to evolve into the bodies they had themselves created. This entanglement of souls into physical form was a probability from the beginning. But God did not know when it would happen until the souls, of their own free will, had caused it to happen.

It took me a minute to grasp his take on the Soul...but wow...once you understand it its pretty cool stuff!


Peace and Love!!! xoxox
www.near-death.com...

Originally posted by Noidentity
reply to post by Brianegan

 

Times the word "God" was used = 42
It get a little redundant after the 10th time...

there are two 2's in a four.........that would equal 222. Thank you for pointing that out

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by TheInterceptor

 

You just joined today, eh. Can you please tell a little about your avatar? Is that your child, someone you know? Got a location for that child, for some reason I feel like checking on her/his's well being. I could be reading the dates backwards, as I'm tired, its either june 1st or january 6th, but that is not an avatar I want to see, nor do I want it swept under the table.

edit on 1-6-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

Yes please look into this person......

Originally posted by Druid42
Whew, I made it to the end, having actually read everything posted, including the painfully long OP.

I think a thread summary is in order.

The OP states that we need to consider giving up our freewill, and that we are fallen angels. There is a judgement day coming soon, and we are all running out of time. Brianegan is on a mission, having made many threads here on ATS to get people to think again, and he is quite subtle in his choice of words. He gives the impression that he's not here to spoon feed people,just to have people read his words, and he's not worried about hurting peoples feelings right now, because things will be much worse when we are standing in front of god to be judged. He's sometimes downright rude, but that is his MO. He's actually a kind and caring and concerned individual, and his technique is often to shock people into thinking about what he has to say. Social grace is not his forte, nor does he hesitate to speak his mind. He retired at about 8:34pm for the day, but will be back tomorrow. As all the thread starters in the prophecy forum, he has inside information, and is a bit mum about his "real" identity and reason for his message, however, he has stated he is not Jesus, and that there are 2 others that do all the judging. You are now up to date.

You are a very wise soul to be able to feel this way....I know how you trule feel about the message and how confusing it is so let me say this......You sir are doing just fine......Keep up the good work.

Originally posted by TheApachekid
reply to post by Brianegan

 

This will be my last post on ATS. Thank you for your thread, I have known for awhile this was the truth and have struggled with free will all my life. The struggle continues my friend, and is very dangerous indeed.I only hope that some day I can give it back, it has brought nothing but pain and misery to my life. I have traveled most of the world and have fought wars on two continents, I have seen enough to know truth from lies, and the only happiness I have ever felt is when my will was surrendered to GOD. I think now I will just kick back and wait to see the pale horse a coming.

The Apache Kid

If you need help I will never leave you alone without a response to try to help.......Very wise of you.......You are not alone and far from it.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by Brianegan

 

Im sorry but I can not agree with your flawed theory. There is only one God and he is Jesus in Human form. Gods name in Heaven is Yahweh. The Orthodox Jews despise him, the Arabs think he was just a prophet but not God. Your theory is severely flawed because they're many gods as they sit in the Divine Council and take orders from the one true God Jesus.

God says to never ever worship anyone but him in the Christian Bible and Torah. Any other religion will not bring you to the one true God. Period.

We are not fallen Angels!!! The fallen Angels are the 200 including Satan who fell from Gods grace for denying Gods orders to watch over us Humans and protect us but never interfere. Satan and his buds got Jealous and did severely interfered with Humanity. The straw that broke the Camels back was the Watchers, the 200 selected Angels deciding that they would have sex with Human women and create the Nephlim.

The Nephlim were soulless Giants who were also cannibals. They ate Humans.

www.michaelsheiser.com...

www.thedivinecouncil.com...

Read these inside and out and you will see your wrong. Sorry but now you know who built the pyramids of Giza, Atlantis, Baalbek and the other ancient megaliths here on earth that could have never built by ancient Humans with no help. The Greek gods of mythology were no Myth, they were the Fallen 200 and they're Nephlim children!!!

I guess that means you have made up your mind........

Originally posted by Phenomium

Originally posted by john124
As soon as you mentioned god I stopped reading, and I'm guessing most other readers will as well.

Not me. I love GOD.

Good choice

Your Youtube channel is 'innervoice222" correct?

2nd line.

Originally posted by LurkingSleipner
reply to post by Brianegan

 

Silly false prophet acting with such pride you find yourself so worthy to be proven or disproved.

Go falsely evangelize to the choir so no sane or righteous person Have cause to read the ramblings of an uncleanly mind.

Who are you to promote self prophesying.

You declare yourself an expert in the knowledge of truth and light, Do not deny this your words speak volumes on the pride in self.

So high and mighty to be the Savior of the poor unbelievers, who demanded this task of you?

Not your "god" I'm sure leading others astray from the path of truth isn't a proper teaching.

Let the word and light be found by those who believe and preach not your lies silver tongued charlatan.

May you not be a burden on the path of the believers.

The questions of which you speak are naught but trickery to question faith itself.

To corrupt the innocent, the believers and unbelievers by confusing them or making conflicting points of argument.

The path of truth is not paved with conflict but personal reflection and responsibility.

Your foolish questions cause only doubt in ones own choices and insecurity to make future choices.

Thus leading the innocent to commit harmful deeds out of confusion.

edit on 1-6-2011 by LurkingSleipner because: Truthiness

Your judgement alone makes you wrong......How can you think that your judgment could ever be right

Originally posted by TheReturnisNear

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by gabby2011

 

There is always free will...only consequences

Ok..so what if the consequences of doing the right thing may hurt others..many have died and left family behind,because they dared try to stop something that was wrong.

The consequences of someones free will also impede anothers free will.

All I was trying to say,was that for many,there is no choice , because if they make the choice that they would choose , the consequences are dire..and that does not seem to be much of a free choice.

OK good questions. Maybe we can finally get through with the planted complainers on the site and move on to critical analysis. You mention the word God and it brings out the most malcontent haters for some reason. If there is no God, why do they bother INSISTING that they have no accountability to this god? Because either they lie in that they do believe in a God but refuse to face this prospect (are in psychological denial) or they lie about insisting to have no accountability. If they truly did not have any accountability then this thread would be meaningless to them, they would not have come here and spent even the time to write a malcontent sentence. If they are here then they lie about not having an interest in the subject since it is not logical to spend ones time where there is no interest. Probably they have an interest but it is suppressed by their conditioning therein creating a love hate relationship with the truth.

OK, so we know that most atheists are liars to themselves. So lets move on.

Your questions remind me of the writer Dennis Lehane who wrote the book Gone Baby Gone. Just a side note.

Just because a choice is dire, does take away the reality that free will creates dire choices. Take for example, black holes in the Universe. Now that is a dire situation in that they suck in everything we know as matter. However, there is an upside to a black hole. What we can't see is that the black hole is shooting out new universes from the other side. In the most darkest hours (no pun intended there) a new universe is born.

Mankind encounters their own facsimile of this natural phenomena. It comes out in our lexicon. It is always darkest before the light. When there is no hope, and all seems completely lost to this complete darkness a new light comes forward. Perhaps this experience is created into our psyche from these natural phenomena. The religious writings passed down from generation to generation have many parallels to these natural occuring phenomena. God. Jesus. Saviours. Sacrifice. Evil. Righteousness. Darkness. Light. All of these things are teaching examples of how things work on a universal scale where matter and anti matter, black holes and new universes are ongoing productions.

The author of the original post makes an interesting point about angles who remain close to God while mankind deviates from God through free will. Mankind have therefore reached a pinacle where they can become like God. Angles are not qualified to become God because they do not go through the trials of darkness that mankind goes through and God went though before he took over this universe. Will all mankind become God just by virtue of the fact that they are on the same path God is on? Afterall man was created in the image of God according to the account. No. Some will fall out of grace completely as has Satan. These will permanately be on the darkside. Not necessarily a bad thing but certainly not what most of us would hope for based on our matter composition. In otherwords, our material composition is such that to become darkness is damnation. At that point hope is crushed and will not move though the darkness to a new light as does a universe being sucked into and then exploded out of a stellar phenomena. These pheneomena are part of our consciousness and therein are real as we suppose not having any perfect knowledge of these ideas. Therein lies faith. Our entire consciousness is based on faith that what is there in our psyche is how things really are and our faith is fortified though experience and clues from our environment made up of symbols of these supposed truths. Jesus. The Cross. The Son/Sun. Evil. Sacrifice are all symbols that fortify our relationship to this universe.

Angels are the closest things to god...Everyone here is the same but denying it

Originally posted by Sundowner

Originally posted by Cryptonomicon
too long; did not read

I did skim however, and you did not deliver on what you sold: a valid warning.

It's funny that people can't take the time to read a "long" post. Sometimes longer posts contain some really enlightening stuff...other times not. This time however, I really enjoyed reading it. (Even if it was a bit hard to understand because of grammar structure, but that's ok.

)

It offered a different insight, not all of which I agree with. I just find it funny that people complain about this or that, about how he or she or whoever is like this or that...complaining, yet preach the wisdom of free will. You can't give free will to all but a few. I just don't see how that would work. If that made sense...? Hope it did.

Made perfect sense and spoke clear about how you felt.

Originally posted by Byrd
An observation:

Many people with warning predictions are often basing it on the premise of "I have never seen things so bad -- chaos all around! This must be the ULTIMATE chaos/destruction of the world!"

The problem is that yes, it might be the most chaotic situation you've ever seen -- but you haven't lived through the entire history of the world and I would bet that most people are unaware of just how bad some of the earlier scenarios were in history.

Take, for instance, the Black Plague. In some areas, 90% of the population died from this. At the same time the climate in Europe suddenly switched from "really warm" to "headed toward the Little Ice Age" so crops were failing, weather patterns were unstable, Mongol armies started encroaching again, there were widespread famines and anarchy as government structures collapsed.

People with messages exactly like yours traveled from village to village, preaching the end was coming... and for many, it did (as they unwittingly spread the disease.)

If you'd been alive then and if we'd had Internet or easy international travel and almost instant news, imagine the horror you would have felt as the entire world crumbled around you (it wasn't the ENTIRE world, mind you, but to a middle class person in Europe it would have looked that way.)

There were other times that were equally as bad.

And the end never came.

The next time the world looks horrible and as though it can't get any worse, read up on things like the Crusades, the Black Plague, the famines, the "Black Hole of Calcutta", Crimean War, and then get a picture of what else was going on... and imagine getting ALL that news delivered at once via Internet. Read up on social laws and social justice from that time period (when someone saying "they gave me a strange look" might mean that they'd come take you and break your body parts and brand you until you confessed that you'd been making deals with the Devil.)

It'll give you a new perspective.

Reference
en.wikipedia.org...

Im actually saying that you aint seen nothing yet.........The storm is coming......Your choice is being made

Originally posted by TheReturnisNear

Originally posted by Scytherius
reply to post by Brianegan

 

There is no God so your entire premise fails. Nice try, though.

And where is your proof that there is no God? Just because you say so?

Asking for proof, see the sinner

Originally posted by Sundowner

Originally posted by TheReturnisNear

Originally posted by Scytherius
reply to post by Brianegan

 

There is no God so your entire premise fails. Nice try, though.

And where is your proof that there is no God? Just because you say so?

This. Right here.
There is no reason there can't be a God. I believe that God and science can fit together very well. And please don't mistake that statement meaning that I'm some ill-informed creationist. One can believe in creative design alongside science.

One would be nieve to think anything else.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
I'm not a religious person myself but...

judging based on some answers like "I stopped reading when you mentioned god" are just a bit... well... dumb. There is bliss in ignorance of course but at least knowing what you're talking about helps. Its like some ppl are afraid of religion. Even mentioning the word makes them go nuts. wow...

And second... some of you should be more respectful of others beliefs. Religion is not to be taken lightly and you cant violate other's freedom or faith by bashing whatever he or she believes in.

Show some respect, even not believing it.

wise words.

Originally posted by TheReturnisNear

Originally posted by Byrd
An observation:

Many people with warning predictions are often basing it on the premise of "I have never seen things so bad -- chaos all around! This must be the ULTIMATE chaos/destruction of the world!"

The problem is that yes, it might be the most chaotic situation you've ever seen -- but you haven't lived through the entire history of the world and I would bet that most people are unaware of just how bad some of the earlier scenarios were in history.

I agree with this. Our collective psyche seems to have a chaotic end built into it. I believe it comes from our collective knowledge that universes are sucked into black holes and new ones are made. This knowledge of how thing work have been put into symbols, teachings, traditions, and various memory enhancers including religion. I believe that some people have this branded into their consciousness more than others because they have certain DNA that holds this memory function. In other words some people on earth are actually closer to this "God" than others because they have closer matching DNA to God and no manner of attempts can break this bonding code. Others seem not to have the same DNA or hard wiring.

Doubt or no doubt.....everyone knows something is coming......They just dont know what it is and are having the time of their lives speaking their claims on it.