Mine resistant scout and convoy protection vehicles WE CAN DO BETTER show us your ideas for better v

I considered specifying treads honestly...

heck you could even put a thin skin over the entire area covered by the booms and skirting all the way around the craft then make it a hovercraft.

I even have an idea of how to make it a less even ground dependent craft by installing two channel wing style fans on the back deck. then a fan or two to drive the skirts.... The channel wings would generate a pretty large amount of lift making it more able to deal with spilling it's skirts.

this is the channel wing
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9b5149d68f14.jpg[/atsimg]

The channel wing works by using the propeller to draw air over the airfoil at a high speed even when the forward momentum of the craft is relatively low. it's thought to gain some of it's extraordinary effects through coanda type effects as well. By using these on the back deck fans though and possibly underneath the craft you could make it pretty light on it's skirts.

reply to post by projectvxn


This is also why I specified Hydra rockets on one or both sides and either a missile launcher and One recoilless or a twinned setup with the recoilless rifle and hydra combo. Because a vehicle this light would have trouble with even the israeli HV 60mm gun that carlton meyer has specified for his tankita concept. The Hydras give us the ability to bust walls, smash holes in buildings, knock down helicopters, and bombard enemy combatants materiel and vehicles.
TANKITA article

This article goes into a tracked concept that inspired mine.

As I mentioned earlier you could also switch out the main 50 caliber gatling gun for something like an ASP 30mm cannon. The ASP is a gas operated extremely light cannon that can be fired from a vehicle mount or from a ground mount tripod. It fires the same 30 mm round that the chaingun of the APACHE uses. It's also a pretty cheap weapon comparatively speaking. I'd almost spec one of these and One gatling equipped Steel lynx work together in pairs.

Here is a list of the types of hydra rockets and the utterly staggering array of off the shelf options this will give a vehicle so equipped with multiple hydra pods.
hydra rockets

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by deltaalphanovember

 

24-barrel rotary shotgun? What in the world...I can't find a single reference to that outside that article. I'm thinking that's probably fake.

Because of the arms embargo, they converted a lot of existing weapons. My father was a district commissioner in the Melsetter area and had a Land Rover that the government armoured for him. He then designed his own simple cannons (gunpowder, ball bearings and candle wax ) that he bolted on the reinforced bumper: 2 barrels forward and 4 to the left and right. He fired them by means of a control panel that he mounted aboove the sun visor. He also designed a mortar that used convention shells but worked off the LandRovers battery.
While testing one of his mortar designs, one shell exploded in the barrel and he was ne
arly killed by the shrapnel.

There are photos for the land rover but he died recently and my sister is busy transcribing his memoirs so it will take me a while to get them if anyone is interested.

I found a picture of the rotary shotgun - low tech but all the better:
24 barrel rotary shotgun on Pookie

reply to post by deltaalphanovember


Thank you so much for the pookie info... The pookie and nyala are a big part of my inspiration for this vehicle idea. I"ve actually ordered taming the landmine a book specifically about the south african and Rhodesian pursuit of mine resistant vehicles.

Here are pictures of the pookie's shotgun system

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dba3c82fdbd4.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3342c048feef.jpg[/atsimg]

The pookie should be a huge inspiration to the west.

I had an idea for the navy once. A Destroyer Class ship that looks like a giant catamaran, with the characteristics of a Sub, diving and such. i figure the catamaran pontoons could be armored to help protect against torpedo attack. and the big guns would rise up from midships. would be able to fire Cruise missiles, etc.

reply to post by deltaalphanovember


Oh, okay, now that I can see. When you said rotary shotgun I'd pictured a Striker or something like a 12-gauge M134. Not some tubes, that'd be really easy to build.

A large EFP placed on the side can take out even the V shaped MRAP. It can strike from yards away and can penetrate through lots of inches of armor. Even the MRAP's days are numbered with the newer EFPs

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


The military has already put something on the MRAPs designed specifically to withstand EFPs.

when Designing vehicle armor packages the aim is not, contrary to popular belief, make the armor impenetrable. But instead the idea is to look at the threats the proposed system will be facing and armor it enough to be able to properly function doing it's job.
In the case of my design I'm setting the armoring goal fairly by wanting to make the vehicle crew survive an AT mine detonation. But I have also "paid" for this by reducing greatly the cubic volume of my design allowing the armor that is used to be used in larger quantities.
In addition I have researched and come up with a structure that I think will help make the armor perform extremely well for the amount in any given area. Beyond the basic armjor structure I think this is a design that the expense and complexity would be justified to consider using "electric armor" description available at link below.
electromagnetic reactive armor


As I get time, money, and the ability to carry it off I will continue updating this thread with better diagrams of my design, and the results of any testing i do. I will be pursuing this project to at least an early proof of concept level although this will not be a quick process due to scarcity of resources I can dedicate to this.

Anyone who wishes to provide input, questions, or comments not in the thread please feel free to u2u me.

reply to post by deltaboy


What would that be? The freedom fighters will make bigger EFPs to the point of making the MRAP even slower to the point of uselessness. If an EFP blows out the wheel of an MRAP, its gonna sit their for a while and block major military traffic flow making the mission delayed. The purpose of the EFP is not to kill people but to hamper and frustrate us forces as much as possible. It seems to be working to that effect as last month May 2011 saw 56 US casualties due to various causes.

Even electromagnetic sensors will not work because you can lay decoys made of metal as you are driving and every sensor will be going off every 10 feet and it will take days to travel one mile.

There is no technology solution to the IED, I am sorry. We should not be there and if someone dies at the hands of an IED, well they shouldn't have been breaking into someones house like that.

While the point is well taken about IED's, especially efp's, this thread is not about saying "oh it's impossible they'll just make a bigger bomb" Or "we shouldn't even be there"

Whether we should be where we are is, IMHO, a moot point and only tangentially related to the subject at hand.

As to the bigger IED's comment allow me to show you this article about a navy team that developed a device that detonates IED's using RF. NAVY secret IED detonating device

Now on top of this there are several other devices like this in the wings... And as I have stated from the beginning this vehicle is designed to ward of AT mines and smaller IED's while other tactics could and SHOULD be used to prevent large devices we cannot armor against from being planted along key routes. (these tactics include using CAS aircraft, manned unmanned or optionally manned, and other forms of persistent route surveillance combined with rapid reaction forces to hit bomb planters mid planting.) But to go into it any further would broaden the scope of the thread greatly.

Also as I've pointed out earlier Electromagnetic armor is specifically designed to break up EFP's and could be a game changer especially with secondary devices meant to detonate them in advance of the vehicle. But you will never have 100% success some IED's will get through and that's what this vehicle is for. It's designed to get hit, yes sometimes this might result in injury or loss of life, but better the route security vehicles than a fuel tanker or APC loaded with troops.

reply to post by roguetechie


i have a better idea , just stay in your own back yard and stop invading other countries
and then you will not need any weapons of war .

reply to post by roguetechie


It is easy to defeat the Navy's new "secret weapon." Since they are using RF/Microwave energy, the EFP/IED can easily be hid inside the shielding you find in your common microwave. The cage will sheild from all electromagnetic radiation.

Any of the freedom fighters can take a microwave and remove the shielding and put it around their IED. Problem solved.

Next.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Well first off you still haven't found some mystical magical way around the electromagnetic armor which could easily be integrated into the vehicle....

Second I'm not really worried about so called "super IED's" just normal ones.

Third the vehicle I have spec'd out has layered armor already integrated into the basic design. there are ways to break up gas jets and or channel the blast away from the center of the vehicle. Most of which I've already specified could and should be used on my design.

Fourth: I'm not concerned about Super IED's just normal ones (yes I know this is redundant maybe if i say it twice people will listen better than the seven times i've said this once)

You CANNOT design a vehicle to be impenetrable, but you CAN do what you can to mitigate the risks. I have specified said mitigation in my basic design....

EDIT TO ADD: I have a picture of a basic armor layering schema which worked extraordinarily well in the past which serves as the inspiration for my own armor layering idea (not shown or specified here as i am still working on it but layered Add on armor packs can and DO stop multiple RPG hits... and rpg's use EFP's)

reply to post by tom.farnhill


If you don't like the thread how about NOT POSTING on it.... as has been pointed out time and again this is the WEAPONRY forum not the POLITICS forum.

I personally have my own feelings about the geopolitical situation that would probably surprise many of you, BUT this is not the venue for that discussion. I have put lots of work into my idea and sincerely want to help the people being hurt by war unnecessarily. It's really a shame some people just want to criticize rather than contribute.

reply to post by roguetechie


How does electromagnetic armor work? I bet there are people out there working on ways to defeat it as we speak. What is the premise behind electromagnetic armor. If it is electromagnetic it will require a lot of power, meaning a large vehicle with a large fuel consumption.

You do conceded the fact that I have just defeated the Navy's newest weapon using basic household materials. Also the point I was trying to make is even if you take out a vehicles tracks or tires, the EFP served its purpose. Meaning that it stopped the supply chain. Whether they killed troops, fuel, cargo, it is all the same to the fighter. They are disrupting logistics.

Electromagnetic armor isn't all that power consumptive or not as power consumptive as you'd think... I posted a link for electromagnetic already earlier in this page.

As far as your assertion that a bomb disrupts logistics thereby achieving the goal....

As I've stated countless times my armored vehicle idea is not the be all end all. It's meant to be used in conjunction with persistent air cover to spot emplacers of bombs at which point the vehicles sortie out to take out the bombers before they can finish emplacing it....

As far as shielding your bomb trigger and bomb (yes you'd have to shield both) idea go, that severely limits their choices of bomb trigger to some sort of pressure or other trigger that can be mechanically actuated... and even then you'd have to be insanely careful to shield it fully! So no you didn't defeat the navy's new technology. Like everything your idea is a trade off not a magic bullet.
electromagnetic Reactive Armor



Edit to add: I highly recommend going back through and reading the two pages of this thread many of your questions have already been answered either in my original post or since then... I put a lot of thought into my design, and have worked to make it as balanced as possible. I have ordered some more books which I should have in the next couple weeks which will help me work out my design further.
book 1: taming the land mine
book 2: Bradley These books will serve as further research aids for me to develop my idea further without trying to reinvent the wheel by looking at what others have done to overcome the same issues I am trying to design around.

edit on 6-6-2011 by roguetechie because: (no reason given)

reply to post by roguetechie


The microwave sheild is basically a faraday cage. You can get any number of wires to run into the cage or a pressure sensor. A cage will not in any way shape or form hamper the ability of the EFP to do its job. Think of this. Get a birdcage and put something electrical in it and run a wire out from the cage. The cage did not hamper your ability to run the electronics inside. So a Microwave sheild will not hamper the ability of the EFP to do its job. The RF weapon has been defeated. Faraday cages are the same exact thing the US military uses to shield its electronics from RF attacks.

A cardboard box with a nail going down into the cage can serve as a pressure trigger. Cardboard does not get affect by RF fields and is thus immune to the RF radiation. Heck even use a plastic and carboard as your pressure trigger and have all the sensitive electronics inside the microwave shield. This RF weapon is a joke dude. Its not gonna make much of an impact.

Saw the electric armor video, we dont know what kind of round it is meant to defeat. If it is shaped charges or regular explosives or solids. Another question is that is the electric armor need charging or is it continuous, meaning can it take on several attacks at once.

If you have wires penetrating the faraday cage they can then serve as a vector which current or frequency can and WILL travel down..

Many of these new bomb destroying devices.... while they say they use RF they use it in different ways than you would think.... This is why I'm saying any wires penetrating the faraday cage will nullify it's protection.

Here is yet another device that will most definitely destroy anything that isn't completely isolated inside a faraday cage.
bomb detonating device

And as I've said time and again the armor design would do alot to stop something like an RPG 7 or 29 warhead. I am confident I can design an armor setup that without any electronic trickery or etc could keep something in the rpg 7 to 29 range from critically damaging the vehicle where it cannot continue moving and fighting.

The EFP like any weapon is a threat but there are ways to mitigate their effects.

reply to post by roguetechie


Most wires are insulated man. They are not going to have naked copper wires running out of the cage. When a wire is insulated it is invisible to the cage

Again in your bomb detonating link:

Félix Vega and Nicolas Mora had to find a way to induce a strong enough current to set off IEDs whose detonators are sometimes

To induce a current requires an electromagnetic field right? A faraday cage once again will protect it from even this weapon.

while they say they use RF they use it in different ways than you would think

They made no mention of different ways to use an RF field. I am familiar with this subject and I can tell you that adequate shielding will protect the IED from any thwarts short of a K-9 unit doing sniffing. That is the best way.