You have died. You are dead. You will continue to die.

Originally posted by GhostLancer

And, the little things we do, such as holding the door for someone or giving up a chair for the elderly/pregnant, smiling at someone and saying hello... can set into motion a chain events that might improve your current reality. I call it REALITY-SHAPING. Do good things, little, medium --huge, and it comes back to you in ways you will never know. Do bad things... and it comes back to you amplified as well.

What you said here, this makes a lot of sense. It's all about being positive, and doing the 'right' things, to find that suddenly your own reality is going 'right' too

Also, I liked your explanation earlier of the multiple slit experiment. I have read this in a book but never really wrapped my head around it, but your explanation made a lot of sense. It is astounding to realise that reality can be affected just by observing it.

Just had a wild thought. okay bear with me........ Some say that we are all from/part of the same creator, so that means we should think we are all one, one concousness anyways. So how bout this, all the possiblities of OUR lives are not happening in OTHER universes but happening to everyone else on earth right now, as we are all one. So the guy that grew up to be an astronaut is just one of the possiblities we hav as a colective conciousness, a girl that died in a car crash on her 3rd birthday is another possibilty, the guy that lost his job and family to drug abuse is another way our life could have gone. GET IT? all the possible cause/effect decision/outcome senarios are not splitting into other universes, they are all happening to someone else,which is you, just not the SELF that you see.

I need a nap after that one.

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
Just had a wild thought. okay bear with me........ Some say that we are all from/part of the same creator, so that means we should think we are all one, one concousness anyways. So how bout this, all the possiblities of OUR lives are not happening in OTHER universes but happening to everyone else on earth right now, as we are all one. So the guy that grew up to be an astronaut is just one of the possiblities we hav as a colective conciousness, a girl that died in a car crash on her 3rd birthday is another possibilty, the guy that lost his job and family to drug abuse is another way our life could have gone. GET IT? all the possible cause/effect decision/outcome senarios are not splitting into other universes, they are all happening to someone else,which is you, just not the SELF that you see.

I need a nap after that one.

Wow. Sure, who is to say that it's not so? Another take on this, and this elevates the complexity of it, is to take what you just said and then apply it to the theory of Multiverse, that this is happening in an infinite array of universes as well.

With the differences between universes being as minor as one raindrop falling a micro-meter away from where it fell in another universe, the same versions of two people could still die in the same exact way, only a raindrop fell differently in China. Meaning, multiple worlds exist no matter human experience. So, what you said surely applies to the Multiverse concept. Especially because you just imagined it. What you did was to imagine it into existence, or rather, *imagination* is like a flashlight revealing what is around you, and the more you engage in imagination, the BRIGHTER THAT LIGHT IS.

Originally posted by blivey
Very thought provoking thread. A great fictional novel based on this concept is "From the corner of his eye" by Dean Koontz. The eerie thing is, the cover of the book has a shadow standing in a heavily branched tree.

Oh yeah, that's RIGHT. I am a fan of Koontz and have read many of his novels, including that one. However, I read it near when it was first released... back in 2002-ish? I remember the first scene with Enoch Cain (?), and he pushes his newlywed wife from the scenic fire-tower or something like that. And there was something about the children, or the boy, being able to pass between worlds. He would walk through the rain without getting wet, and said that he simply went into the version of the world where it wasn't raining, only, he would not vanish from this world. In his mind, he was walking in a sunny day and thus never got wet. I may have to revisit that novel.

Nice observation about the tree! Star!

whaty you just said is that there are an infinte number of parallel universes, that might actually make sense

Actually what you wrote (apart from the infinite universes which I can't get my head around) is already in the Bible. It's funny how something regarded as untrue or irrelevant is miles ahead of modern science or science is just catching up... like diseases, diet and health, emotional wellbeing, negative effects of revenge etc etc.

The old civilisations weren't as stupid as we thought they are. If fact, apart from the fact life was more violent back then, the seemed to have a better grasp on life. So much for modern intelligence.

reply to post by GhostLancer


Another book dealing with these kinds of concepts is The Dark Tower Series, and many other books by Stephen King tie into this idea as well.

"Go then, there are other worlds than these"

Originally posted by ufoinquirer
Guys you're making assumptions that free will exists to begin with.

You must prove that first.

: )

So because my mothers hair is brown, and my father was 5'8", and because I had steak for dinner last night, and drive a white car I couldn't help but log on to ATS and reply to your post?

For those who would love a great visual experience of what quantum theory is, watch the movie,
"WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW" and the animated movie " WAKING LIFE" those two movies are 5 stars in my book

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
Just had a wild thought. okay bear with me........ Some say that we are all from/part of the same creator, so that means we should think we are all one, one concousness anyways. So how bout this, all the possiblities of OUR lives are not happening in OTHER universes but happening to everyone else on earth right now, as we are all one. So the guy that grew up to be an astronaut is just one of the possiblities we hav as a colective conciousness, a girl that died in a car crash on her 3rd birthday is another possibilty, the guy that lost his job and family to drug abuse is another way our life could have gone. GET IT? all the possible cause/effect decision/outcome senarios are not splitting into other universes, they are all happening to someone else,which is you, just not the SELF that you see.

I need a nap after that one.

That is actually an awesome way of putting it!

Originally posted by GhostLancer

Originally posted by ufoinquirer

Originally posted by hederahelix
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

you still make all the choices, its just that you would have always made the same choices.

I don't know about anyone else... but I'm forced to make my decisions/choices based solely on information available to me... be it truthful or be it total BS. When you withhold critical information from decision makers... innocent people get hurt... in ALL realities. Fact.

edit on 31-5-2011 by hederahelix because: (no reason given)

yes free will is an illusion

even if you're given new info to help your decision, that info only gets to you via simple cause and effect. we're not different than animals or ping pong balls. we're just a lot more complicated. : )

Hmmmmm... VERY INTERESTING. I had little idea that so many people do not believe in free will. I didn't realize that there were so many "Determists" around. For those who may not have heard, and I was one until I heard, "Determinism" is the belief that there is no free will, and that though we may *think* we have a say in things, that in reality, we're just playing out a scripted chain of events. Like, if you were choosing between a red car and a blue car, no matter what you chose, it was meant to be and that is all. You only *thought* you were choosing, but it was "in the stars" that you would choose the blue car no matter what.

Quantum Theory and Multiple Universes states that you freely chose BOTH cars, but as a singular entity, you can only perceive existence based on what choice you made in ONE universe, regardless if both choices played out and became two different realities. I don't have the link, but I do remember that last year or earlier this year, scientists actually suspended a particle in what is called a SUPERPOSITION (i.e. the particle was in both states AT THE SAME TIME). It was a valid experiment and scientifically proven; they had a particle in two states simultaneously. I believe in free will. Here's one reason why...

Someone mentioned the 2-slit experiment. Nutshell: photos are shot, singularly, from a photon-emitter at one end of a box. On the opposite end of the box is a sensor pad that records where on the pad the photon struck. In-between the photon emitter and the sensor pad is a wall. The wall has two slits in it. The photon must pass through either the left or right slit to get to the photon sensor. We know which slit it went through by which side of the photon sensor the photon strikes. Easy enough, right?

In that experiment, the "Universe" (or Entropy or Chance or whatever you want to call it) "chooses" a slit. It could be random or not, but for whatever reason, the photon must go through one or the other slit; there is no in-between (at least, not yet). So, after emitting scores or hundreds of photons, there is a pattern on the sensor pad, and as you would imagine, it's about 50/50 left/right. Things changed when the scientists decided to go have a cheeseburger (or whatever) and run the experiment again when no one was around to witness it. What they saw when they returned was baffling.

Instead of the proven "typical" pattern on the sensor pad, they saw a confused pattern filled with interference, nothing like when they were observing the experiment unfolding. Confused, they ran it again and got the "typical," expected result from the first time. What they learned was that when the experiment was observed (by the scientists, sentient, aware beings), the Universe had to CHOOSE a slit: left or right. But, when the experiment was unobserved, the Universe could choose BOTH slits since no SENTIENT OBSERVER was there to force it to **DECIDE** which slit to use. Think about that. It's very profound.

In essence, the 2-slit experiment says that THE MERE ACT OF OBSERVATION can affect the outcome, that there is something about an OBSERVER that forces the Universe to choose a slit without ambiguity. So, if our very presence forces the Universe Itself to choose an outcome (and not just cop-out and choose both outcomes), then we have a power that is very mighty indeed. It is because of this that I believe we have free will, for how can we be FORCE THE UNIVERSE INTO CHOOSING AN OUTCOME if we don't have the power of choice ourselves?

I also believe that ART (in all it's various forms) is what seperates us from simple chemical reactions. In art, we are as close to the Creator --or the act of creation-- as we can get, for we are CHOOSING methods to express ourselves, via paint, music, dance, acting, storytelling, fiction-writing, etc. Our imaginations are very powerful and when we *create* we employ that powerful ability of free will. Sure, you can say, well you were going to paint that Starry Night anyway. Well, I don't think so. I choose what colors to use, what brushes to use, what techniques, how much paint and where. I choose when to begin and when to stop. In art, I am the master of my universe.

I also believe that IF YOU BELIEVE YOU DON'T HAVE FREE WILL, then maybe you don't. --In the sense that our focus determines our reality. I have DECIDED I have free will, and thus it is so. If you don't believe in the power of free will and decision, then you simply probably won't ever have it. It's an easy path to take because there is no responsibility, no regret, no blame. And for some, that is the correct answer. Not for me and those of you who embrace free will and decision. Just my take.

APPLAUSE , I TOO CHOOSE FREE WILL!! Enjoy the RUSH

reply to post by Starwise


Here try this one, my bad LOL

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by isthisreallife
reply to post by GhostLancer

 

Well that makes a lot of sense. But could someone's own branches tangle with other branches from your own tree? So your tree becomes a twisted mess?

To me, that could create some problems if universes are mixing.

"mixing"? hmmm:
Well that would explain a few things. After all 3"rights"do make a"left". Interesting;
but I tend to think generating an entire" parallel" universe just because I chose green socks over brown one day just doesn't make sense energy wise to me.

There are finite choices made by a finite number of beings so technically a finite number of universes would be generated( x finite * x finite=finite).

but for all practical "human comprehensible" purposes the number approaches the infinite. as I believe there is not infinite AMOUNTS OF ENERGY.Available. this would be impossible,but only to my mind perhaps not yours..Intetresting thread kudos o.p.

In my humble opinion, and from my understanding, Quantum Physics and all its science is just a long, drawn out way of saying...

WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING! (

Hate to be a party pooper; but thats why you invited me.

I believe this to be the most ridiculous theory making the rounds. We actually make billions of decisions during our lifetimes. There is no fricking way that when i choose Coke instead of Pepsi anything happens anywhere else because of that decision. This is just a wacko theory made up by someone suffering deep regrets. You don't get another shot at your choices until your physical existence ends in this world. And even that it is debatable.

Something seems out of whack with the concept that you make a choice for one direction yet you still continue along the other un-chosen possibilities in a new universe.

Being involved in the spiritual awakening side of the human equation, I can easily see Possibilities and Probabilities inherent in each Choice Moment.. that much is a given. But, when we make a choice for one direction we then move in that direction, and all other possiblities for that moment fade away... because they were not made Real by Action... they were not Chosen and they do not continue in existence.

One thing about science is it fails to understand its own state of existence as being in its "early childhood" phase. Many hundreds or thousands of years from here science will look back and think how silly it was with some of it's Theories.. just as adults look back on their childhood and see the sillyness we had as a child.

Great post OP.

Have you ever heard of or listened to Bashar?

Here are some great talks of this subject:

On Death:

Originally posted by ufoinquirer
Here's why I find it hard to believe. The cat paradox makes sense, because as far as we know the radioactive process is random. So I think universes could be created for each random decision of nature - whatever there is to that.

But I don't believe in free will/choices. Your choice is based on events from before, that by the time of your choice are out of your control, so you only ever have one choice to make. The free will part is an illusion.

We know everything has a cause or a reason - as we learn more and more about the brain, we discover more and more that there is no free will or choice - there's just the decision you come to based on the thoughts you had prior to that (chemical reactions) which are based on biology and memories, on and on and on till you're that acorn again. In this sense, I actually think time may work forward and backward, but the causes just change their meaning. Let's say you drop a ball on teh ground. Is the ground throwin ghte ball back up to you, or forcing hte ball o come down? : )

So this theory works for truly random events or decisions, if they exist. But not otherwise.

But you're also affected by the choices of others... some of which may be affected by random chance.. thereby altering your life by no "choice" of your own and irregardless if your previous experiences.. Seems to me that this falls in line with the butterfly effect, only there's a butterfly effect for everything.. what if I blinked twice instead of once?

If the theory were true then it would begin from the moment you are born and every scenario ever played out.. in one life, I cried for one minute, in another alternate i cried for 30 seconds.. it seems a very inefficient thing which is my main reason for not really believing that theory.. it seems nature is generally an efficient set of processes ( generally ) .. lightning taking the most direct path to ground for example..

reply to post by GhostLancer


I like your tree picture, It looks like the tree from "the War" the Costner movie

You are right.

My foursome and I figured this out years ago.

We were drunk, on our way back from playing at a local course. We were in a car accident and killed.

We have been in hell ever since.