Supreme Court Backs Arizona Immigration Law That Punishes Businesses

reply to post by capod2t


It doesn't take millions of people to pick avacados. I am sure that many young people have done so as their first job. Let me see if I can make this clear. We have millions of citizens who have no jobs and need to provide for their families. We have millions of illegals who you want to make legal that already have a job, and will then be able to keep those jobs. Too many people and not enough jobs. I see no solution in what you are proposing.

When ICE deports thousands of illegals, thousands of citizens quickly take those jobs. It has been proven over and over again.

If America could save all of the world's poor people we would. It is not possible for America or any other Country to do so. We cannot shove our own citizens aside and meet all the needs of a foreigner while so many citizens are falling through the cracks.. That is what Americans are dealing with. That is why American citizens are angry and resentful.

reply to post by TKDRL


Starred - excellent points. Have you ever seen the inside of these pig or chicken plants. Stepping inside will activate you gag reflex - the stench, the tubs of blood, the guts - it is unbearable. We once located a guy submerged in a tub - the size of a small pool - of blood. These working conditions absolutely need to be improved and the pay need to compensate what the workers are exposed to.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by capod2t

 

One factor in this mess though, a lot of them don't want to be legal. They are not here to stay, they are here to just milk as much as they can out of us for ten or fifteen years, then go back home and live very wealthy.

This is untrue. 3 million showed they wanted to be legal last time amnesty was offered. Many wanted but could not because of criminal records.

You have no idea what it costs to live in mexico. Much cheaper than the US but no one is going to live like a king off of what they scrape together working for less than minimum wage in the US for a decade or two.

reply to post by daskakik


So true - of course some come for a time to make money. maybe enough to start their own business there or build their mom a house. THE MAJORITY are here to stay. They buy homes, open bank accounts, start businesses, have american citizen kids. Those are not the characteristics of temporary visitors.

reply to post by Night Star


I would really like to converse with you, but I don't think it would be productive, Avocados was a simple example of so many agricultural, janitorial, hospitality, construction, service jobs being filled BY illegal aliens because of the lack of the legal workforce unwilling to take these positions, or because illegal labor is cheaper. You are missing my entire point.

reply to post by Night Star


And by the way, there are several individual billions in the US and elsewhere who absolutely could save feed, immunize the world - Soros, Gates, Turner, Rothschild, Rockefeller.

Get with the program, Honey.

reply to post by capod2t


Yep, too late. Didn't want you to take it that way, but you did. Not what I meant to take some potshot at you, puhleeeeeese. Was looking for your input after I provided some data on a fence commissioned based on another that apparently pretty well works. So you are saying the fence in Yuma does not work? Because that would conflict with reports. Or what? I guess if we reset our "attitudes" we might get some effective communication across to each other, ya think?

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by capod2t

 

One factor in this mess though, a lot of them don't want to be legal. They are not here to stay, they are here to just milk as much as they can out of us for ten or fifteen years, then go back home and live very wealthy. Packing in 30 to a house, 10 to an apt, their overhead is vey little. The rest they send back home, to put in their account to gather interest. They are only here for the money, not to live. Being legal is not in those people's interest.

Yeah I am with you on the border 100%, there needs to be control. More than just job stealers are coming through that border, and once deported a lot of them just hop right back over the border again. It's not a good situation at all.

The ones that might buy into the whole amnesty deal, are the ones that are already working on the books, under false SS#'s, and that is a small fraction. Something needs to be done, that is for sure.

We have problems here as well though. People stopped working at the factories up here for minimum wage mostly, demanding wages we could actually live with. Instead they lobbied the government, and got them to foot the bill and fly in people from haiti and jamaica, pay their rent, and have them work at the factory for minimum wage.... And of course we the taxpayers are footing the bill. It's ridiculous... We pay insane taxes up here as well, to get substandard healthcare among other things.... Can't win being the little guy anymore.

edit on Thu, 26 May 2011 21:24:52 -0500 by TKDRL because: damn homonyms....

So true! Many do NOT want to be legal. I had asked some why they wouldn't want to be legal and they said because America is stupid and you get more being illegal. I was like... What a slap in the face! And the sad part is... they are right! Then you had those who said that our money was worth so much more in their Country. They lived a lot of people in a tiny apartment, were able to easily pay bills, sent a LOT of money back home then when they have enough they are moving back. A couple of them already have.

reply to post by manta78


THIS is the root of the problem and something they should have been paying attention to years ago, instead of mobilizing people to shoot immigrants on the border.

A good step in the right direction IMHO.

Originally posted by capod2t
reply to post by daskakik

 

So true - of course some come for a time to make money. maybe enough to start their own business there or build their mom a house.

That is what many have planned. I have heard many say they can work in the US for a single year and save enough. Never happens.

Also you can't forget the old saying "How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm. After they've seen Paree?" I have seen few who are happy to be back in their homeland and those are usually older folk who have real roots in the place. Teens and young adults are usually itching to get back stateside.

Originally posted by capod2t
reply to post by mugger

 

I starred ya because I agree. One point you may be overlooking. 20% of our population is babyboomer, soon (if not already) either dead, retiring or on their way out one way or the other.

There will soon be a void in our work force, not to mention our military ranks. Could we not use immigrants, as the US has in the passed for such voids? Canada is still recruiting foregin workers as their workforce expands.

WE may soon be in that position again.

I have news for you. The so called baby boomers ready to retire? Many have to remain in the workforce because they cannot afford to retire. Don't worry, if we need people in the workforce, we will get them no problem. Right now there is no way we need illegals to remain.

Originally posted by capod2t
reply to post by mugger

 

I starred ya because I agree. One point you may be overlooking. 20% of our population is babyboomer, soon (if not already) either dead, retiring or on their way out one way or the other.

There will soon be a void in our work force, not to mention our military ranks. Could we not use immigrants, as the US has in the passed for such voids? Canada is still recruiting foregin workers as their workforce expands.

WE may soon be in that position again.

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reply to capod2t:
You have certainly been an interesting poster in this thread so far, and for that I thank you. Some of your replies I agree with in part, and then on the second half you lose me. But that's ok. That's what we do here, and each person has their own viewpoints and the right to express them.

Found an interesting article that is similiar in nature to what you are trying to suggest, but I thought it ended with a very "appropiate" comment. Here's the excerpt I am referring to:

Immigration reform will require cooperation between the U.S. and Mexico, said Francisco Alba, a professor at the Colegio de Mexico in Mexico City.

The days of the Bracero Program in the middle of the 20th century, when the U.S. sought Mexican labor, are over, Alba said. The Mexican government needs to convince its citizens that they can't go to other countries without permission, he said.

“We have to try to deactivate the migration syndrome,” he said. “Because the conditions are different. There is no open door anymore. We have to accept that in (Mexico).”

Gracias Senior Alba, for a very intelligent observation imo.


Read more: www.mysanantonio.com...

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Dont back away form the shots. You took em and I am quite accustomed - New Yorker.

You wanna discuss the walls Washington agreed upon or you wanna discuss the walls that will be effective. Because there's a big difference between the two. Politicians will finance pathetic, useless walls easily negotiated because they are in cahootz for the North American Union. Those who are not, simply dont get reelected (Tancredo).

Border Patrol is overrun so thousands get through everyday. Then there are those who are already here. Then there are those who come on visas legally and simply overstay. So new illegal aliens are "created" everyday.

I work the interior - we also have our hands full because the borders are porous. My suggestion is this. LOCK it down and let us catch up a little. Let's backfill the boomer pop who are retiring and dieing off. Let's ensure we have some able bodies with some some incentive to legalization through military service. Then reassess.

Oh, but what will that do to the value of the Amero currency? Oh no!

reply to post by manta78


While I appreciate your comments and offered article, I have one question, Why did the current Mexican president so boldly denounce the AZ immigration law, if they did not see the need to continue to exploit the american labor force?

reply to post by Night Star


I don't go to walmart much but I am pretty sure you have to speak english to hand out the smily stickers - unless of course its a walmart in Hidalgo.

You seem to have a real issue with me and my point, while having very little, if any at all, education, experience or knowledge of this topic other than perhaps a CNN report.

Originally posted by capod2t
reply to post by Night Star

 

I would really like to converse with you, but I don't think it would be productive, Avocados was a simple example of so many agricultural, janitorial, hospitality, construction, service jobs being filled BY illegal aliens because of the lack of the legal workforce unwilling to take these positions, or because illegal labor is cheaper. You are missing my entire point.

We have always had citizens in these types of jobs. As you said, "illegal labor is cheaper." Illegals are also taken advantage of.

I'll make one other point since I've been involved in trade unions(electrical), but no many people in most trade unions. before you can even be accepted to take the written test, you moust provide valid I.D., SSN, birth certificate and high school and college transcripts. I haven't ever witnessed one illegal in any of those trades, I'm assuming teachers are the same. Should it be discrimination as these workers rights groups try and portray?

Start by getting rid of prevailing wages, let private companies also bid on government jobs, even if they hire illegals and then we might see something happen as wages really start dropping.

There would be no need for a national I.D. card which has been proposed, and illegals would be shut down, if all companies would do as unions implement now. Give them a workers program and screening process after the border is shut down.

reply to post by capod2t


Self preservation. Mexico's el presidente Calderon did not want Arizona's immigration laws/policies to be successful; if accepted he knew the idea would spread to other border states, possibly resulting in having millions of his citizens return back to his country; he can barely lead the people who live there now. Not to mention Mexico benefits from the billons of dollars those illegal workers in the states send back to Mexico.

Sorry I cant stick around for more of this one-sided uninformed colloquy. I need to get up in a couple hours. we are pursing a Mexican prior deport who raped a minor female child with cerebral palsy. He's back and he's working, ya know, illegally. Probably assumed some ol lady's identity who will be fighting the IRS the remainder of her days to get her benefits back.

Yep, one of the good one who came for a better life.

I enjoyed discussing these issues with everyone. Sorry for getting a little heated.

Good night