Supreme Court Backs Arizona Immigration Law That Punishes Businesses

reply to post by Night Star


post by Night Star
It is a fact that they are not just here taking the jobs that American citizens won't do. It is a fact that many companies have had to close because they can no longer compete with companies who hire illegals at sub-standard wages. It is a fact that illegals are driving wages down in many areas.

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reply by manta78

You are correct. Check out this short commentary on that topic:

Friday, Sep 24 2010 07:25 PM

Farm Labor, America's Uemployed and the Illegal Immigration Myth

Lately, we have been hearing a lot from those who attempt to perpetuate the myth that illegal immigrants are only doing jobs that U.S. citizens won't do. They have been challenging U.S. citizens to apply for the jobs currently held by illegal immigrants in the farming industry. At the same time, they try to create the grossly false impression that illegal immigrants are employed only as farmworkers. It's true that most people don't want a job that is hot, seasonal, nomadic, backbreaking, sometimes dangerous and, most of all, paying "less than desirable wages." Personally, I don't blame anyone, legal or illegal, for not wanting such a job.

Because U.S. citizens don't want to pick fruits and vegetables in the fields has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that illegal immigrants are taking jobs that many of the 15 million currently unemployed U.S. citizens and legal residents need, and would do. So, let's try to set the record straight.

According to the official figures of the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, there are 377,000 people in the farming industry, 233,000 of which are "farmworkers/laborers."

In order to be fair, we don't want to underestimate the number of illegal immigrants working in the farming industry. The Bureau of Labor Statistics might have underestimated the number of people actually working in farming, possibly due to some people working under the table. So, let's say that the number is more than double 377,000, for instance, 800,000. Let's also say that, for the sake of discussion, the entire 800,000 are illegal immigrants.

The Internal Revenue Service states that there were approximately 130 million people working in the United States in 2009. That is slightly more than 40 percent of our population of 300 million.

Official estimates show that there are 12 million illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. Most of them came here to work. If, as in the general population, 40 percent of these illegal immigrants are employed, it would mean that 4.8 million of them have jobs, including no more than 800,000 jobs in farming.

Is my math wrong, or does that mean that there are 4 million employed illegal immigrants who are working in jobs outside of farming? Could it be that those jobs exist in almost every area of employment that doesn't require English? For example, jobs in areas such as hotels, motels, restaurants, maintenance, light manufacturing, meatpacking and construction, to name a few.

It's an inescapable fact that U.S. citizens were doing just fine, while they were doing all of these jobs, long before the relatively recent, and massive, surge of illegal immigration.

Like any group of people, the vast majority of illegal immigrants are otherwise law-abiding and hardworking. They are simply trying to provide for themselves and their families. The same can be said about the 15 million unemployed in the United States, most of whom are U.S. citizens and legal residents.

Compassion should be shown to all people having difficulty taking care of their families, no matter who they are, or where they come from. But when that compassion takes the form of jobs and financial assistance, it must be given, first and foremost, to our unemployed fellow U.S. citizens and legal residents who, I suspect, would be willing to take many of those 4 million non-farm jobs in order to help put food on their families' tables.

Source: www.bakersfield.com...

At some point buisnesses will have to lower their prices if the people make less money because they are willing to take anything coming from a country that has nothing to offer, or having to compete with those people. Lets see how they like that. Same old problem, everybody wants to sell but nobody wants to hand out decent wages.

reply to post by capod2t


Get into the real world? I live in the real world... I ran my own flooring and tiling business before the recession, I know what I am talking about... I went out of business and lost my house, because I was sitting home while companies that hire illegals stayed afloat. I know all about it, and I am not the only one in that boat from NY/CT by a long shot. In case you didn't know, NY and CT are two of the big illegal hotspots, with illegals haven states.

companies who close due to lack of filling positions? One of two issues. One - can't find americans to do the job at a particular wage. 2 - can't find enough illegal aliens who have secured assumed identities who will pass the litmus test (passable documents).

When you have 20 million illegal aliens already here, working or looking for work, and are not paying taxes (or are paying taxes on someone else's SSN or taxpayer ID and thereby ruining their credit and life), what's your solution? Deport them all? Never gonna happen. Never.

Amnesty? not the answer and I never suggested it. WE are already grant a benefit call ed Temporary Protected Status to alien from certain countries such as Honduras, guatemala;, liberia, sudan. In part, it is true protection of these aliens to allow them to stay here. But more so, it is to allow most aliens to stay here so they can send money home, thereby keeping the rest of them there, out of the US. WE have, in essence, created a welfare state in Mexico: the entrepreneurs, the motivated come here to work. The lazed remain there waiting for the wire transfers.

reply to post by capod2t


Please hold off the name calling....no need... we are all adults here. I think the majority of persons greatly appreciate the work our I.C.E. employees do on a daily basis, and I am sure it is sometimes (or maybe all the time) a frustrating job.

Let's keep it professional....Thanks

reply to post by TKDRL


I am sorry for your business and wish you the best in your recovery, However, legalizing certain aliens to work legally, since they are already here, would have enable you to hire folks who SHOW UP TO WORK EVERYDAY AND PUT IN ALL THE HOURS YOU NEED THEM TO and continue with your livelyhood. how could a guy like you even take an adverse side to this position, since you experienced this reality yourself?

Originally posted by capod2t
reply to post by Night Star

 

Misinformed? - shadow me in my job one day. Walk in my shoes. You are just one more tube watcher, newspaper reader who is so far removed from reality, all you can do is pass judgment without any credentials.

Keep armchair quarterbacking like the rest and passing judgment. It's the new american way. 12 years of doing what you have no clue about and I am misinformed? Typical...

Pass judgement? Far removed from reality? Let me tell you about my reality Sir. I have witnessed American citizens turned away from jobs while illegals took those jobs. How do I know they were illegals? From people who worked in the office, and most of all, from the illegals themselves. Once they trust you, they open right up, tell you how they got here, how much they paid to get here, how easy it was to get ss numbers and false documents. The women also told me how they got welfare benefits by saying they were a one income household, when in fact they were not! The combined incomes were well above the poverty limit. They had no business being on welfare. So here you have American citizens in desperate need of a job while some foreigner waltzes in and gets the job instead.

I have seen jobs that require people to be bilingual and speak spanish. It is difficult enough for people to find employment, now an American citizen has to speak a foreign language in their own Country in order to be employed?

Let me tell you about the 87 year old woman with tears in her eyes as she spoke of being denied any financial help because she made two lousy dollars over the poverty limit. And it's ok for an illegal to get free medical, food, and cheap housing? It breaks my heart to see people like this woman have to suffer and struggle in her elder years after working hard her entire life. This is a shame! But oh no, I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't need to walk in your shoes to know how the American people are being walked all over and abandoned by their own Country.

reply to post by capod2t


At the biggest boom point in the construction business, it was only me, my father, my uncle, and my cousin working. Majority of the time me and pops were a 2 man business. That is how a lot of construction businesses are, one small crew. We didn't need people to fill positions, we needed work.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by capod2t

 

Get into the real world? I live in the real world... I ran my own flooring and tiling business before the recession, I know what I am talking about... I went out of business and lost my house, because I was sitting home while companies that hire illegals stayed afloat. I know all about it, and I am not the only one in that boat from NY/CT by a long shot. In case you didn't know, NY and CT are two of the big illegal hotspots, with illegals haven states.

Many people have come forward on other forums about how they had to lose their businesses because they could no longer compete with companies who hired illegals at sub-standard wages and could afford to get the job done cheaper. The companies pay the workers under the table and save a fortune, can do a job cheaper and the illegal works for cheap, doesn't pay taxes and collects welfare on top of that. They are the winners through deciet.

All good points, but isolated to individual stories. There is a 9% REPORTED unemployment rate. Unreported, my assessment would be more like 25%. At this point, even illegal aliens are heading home due to lack of work.

This is a huge issue - bigger than you know. From major corporations with high-paid lobbyists down to the poor fellow who lost his flooring business. On the basis of 12 years in immigration enforcement, this is a more than qualified recommendation. The border is unsecured and out of control. No body listened to Rep Tom Tancredo from Colorado. But I have seen what he has seen. Miles of trash left behind by smugglees, Deaths. Kids abandoned in the desert because they couldn't keep up with the load. Catholic Charities raising water towers so that illegal aliens had water in their illegal journey into the US. Shots fired at border patrol.

Techies, students, and other skilled workers get visas and enter without delay. How many Mexicans are "waiting" for their lawful opportunity to come here through the proper process? Ha! Not many - they just come.

My point here is - try to absorb this - so many illegal alien already here and untaxed. They get on the books, making a fair wage, pay into the tax systems, contribute to their health care. This fills positions legally - positions regardless of pay many americans will not do. Job gets done, we have the services we need.

How many americans do you know pick avocados for 14 hours a day down in homestead florida?

reply to post by pajoly

I am no Tea Partier, but this is a great, if small, ruling for the People against the corporations

Why do you need to be in the Tea Party to be for this ruling or any party? Isn't just asserting our American rights and laws enough, no matter the party? I do not think anyone who pays attention to politics, even slightly. needs to see Mexico's laws for illegal aliens.
Since our own country has so many people on welfare and unemployment, the illegals should be gone and should have along time ago. As you stated, I'm glad the people finally have a small voice to start.
And to add, if any legal citizen takes up a false SSI number and ID, it is a felony. Why does our government on that alone not prosecute these illegals?

reply to post by Night Star


At least take the time to read my posts before arguing issues with which I agree and have offered possible solutions.

It's no surprise to me that, after all my posts sharing inside info on the reality of this whole issue, speaking from 12 years of street expereince, I have received one friggin star. I am not here for stars. But what an accurate reflection this is of how out of touch everyone here really is.

reply to post by Night Star


It's a lot more we have to pay as well. In NY and CT at least, we both had to pay liability insurance, workman's compensation, taxes etc. Companies that have two people on the books, and ten off the books, are not paying liability and workman's comp either for the ten guys. It is a huge overhead saver, which is why they can charge so little. With our small company, we had to pull in a certain ammount of money a month, just to pay that overhead, and the mortgage. We stuck it out as long as we could, eating once a day, sometimes not at all, putting all the money we made into paying that overhead. In hindsight, we just should have stopped paying at the beginning of the last winter we were there, and started sending all our money to our canadian account. We were optimistic that business would pick up before it was too late.

reply to post by TKDRL


That is a sad unfortunate circumstance to this system of which we have lost utter control. Legit companies absolutely cannot compete with those who cheat the system.

So I pose to you, had the playing field been level, wherein those competitors were required to hire LEGAL workers, absorbing the same overhead, would you have survived? Could you have survived - all things being equal?

Look - the big boys with the big lobbyists will never be subjected to scrutiny - heck, they have politicians on their boards! It's the company like yours that will be fined for employeeing a known illegal. Or you lose a guy because he got piched for DWI last night - now you need to find another one. It's never ending bro. WE have to look at some sort of legalization, at least for employement authorization.

Originally posted by capod2t
Without that wall, we will never get ahead. Where's the wall? Never gonna be built. Why? North American Union sign ed by executive order by Bush.

Well if we are going to be accurate, let's be accurate. That is not entirely true about the wall:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Governor Brewer Signs Bill That Starts Border Fence Construction

Phoenix, AZ--Governor Brewer has signed SB 1406 into law. SB 1406 allows for the construction and maintenance of a fence along the Arizona-Mexico border.

“For proof that a well-built fence really works, all you need to do is look at the progress in Yuma County ,” says Sen. Smith. In 2006, Yuma built a triple-layered wall, standing 20 feet high and reinforced by cement-filled steel piping, steel mesh, and wire.

Visit thread for links and more info.

The point is, a motivated LOCAL community, and in this case, an entire state, CAN get legislation passed to build these very effective walls. The proof that a particular type of wall really works resides in that thread, so again, visit it so we don't get too far off topic here.

But maybe you already know about that being on the inside and all...

reply to post by capod2t

My point here is - try to absorb this - so many illegal alien already here and untaxed. They get on the books, making a fair wage, pay into the tax systems, contribute to their health care. This fills positions legally - positions regardless of pay many americans will not do. Job gets done, we have the services we need.

Our government should be held accountable for their failures to enforce our laws and borders first before their tax revenues and corporations. Figure in the illegals benefits of which they are not entitled to, from schools, medical, welfare, or any other government program for citizens. The tax payer is getting it stuck in the rear.
I do not need to know how to pick avacado's for 14 hrs. I would do it no problem, come hump with me weed whacking cemetaries and then cutting them afterwards for the same time. We get enough U.S. Citizens without the need to import or hire illegals. Maybe our Welfare system needs to change first and get the lazy, liers off that first. When you need a job and quit handing out taxpayer money for free, I think menial jobs will be taken by citizens.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


So - taking pot shots. Okay that's cool. Maybe next time you predict an earthquake in Yellowstone, Ill call into question your qualifications as well.

A little advice before spoutin off - go to Yuma, Temucula, Laredo. Get a border tour by my brethren down there. Sit with those guys, have a coffee and listen to some stories. Let them tell you themselves the agents they've lost that you never heard about.

Let them tell you about the bull# walls that have been put up to "protect" the border.

then you'll know what wall I'm talking about - until then, stick to the seismos.

reply to post by capod2t


One factor in this mess though, a lot of them don't want to be legal. They are not here to stay, they are here to just milk as much as they can out of us for ten or fifteen years, then go back home and live very wealthy. Packing in 30 to a house, 10 to an apt, their overhead is vey little. The rest they send back home, to put in their account to gather interest. They are only here for the money, not to live. Being legal is not in those people's interest.

Yeah I am with you on the border 100%, there needs to be control. More than just job stealers are coming through that border, and once deported a lot of them just hop right back over the border again. It's not a good situation at all.

The ones that might buy into the whole amnesty deal, are the ones that are already working on the books, under false SS#'s, and that is a small fraction. Something needs to be done, that is for sure.

We have problems here as well though. People stopped working at the factories up here for minimum wage mostly, demanding wages we could actually live with. Instead they lobbied the government, and got them to foot the bill and fly in people from haiti and jamaica, pay their rent, and have them work at the factory for minimum wage.... And of course we the taxpayers are footing the bill. It's ridiculous... We pay insane taxes up here as well, to get substandard healthcare among other things.... Can't win being the little guy anymore.

reply to post by mugger


I starred ya because I agree. One point you may be overlooking. 20% of our population is babyboomer, soon (if not already) either dead, retiring or on their way out one way or the other.

There will soon be a void in our work force, not to mention our military ranks. Could we not use immigrants, as the US has in the passed for such voids? Canada is still recruiting foregin workers as their workforce expands.

WE may soon be in that position again.