Seriously, is there any logical argument against gay marriage?

I've always wondered what business is it of government if two people love each other and want to form a bond in front of their chosen deity. To me it's got to be either a religious thing, or a government thing...but the fact that it's both only serves to complicate it because the religions start calling the shots.

Two gay men should have the exact same rights in their relationship as a man and a woman. I refuse to entertain the concept of "if you make that legal, other wrong types of relationships will want to get married" because there is nothing wrong with two men loving each other. A man can't marry a tree because a tree can't enter into contracts. Neither can animals, or children.

It's all very simple...but equality is being held back by religious based bigotry.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by confreak

 

And don't forget incest either... on Jerry Springer I see cousins wanting to get married all the time.

But regarding the dolphin translation machine, or any other form of animal translation machine for that matter I haven't really thought about. How do you prove consent of an animal? I'm guessing a trainer could teach a dolphin how to say "yes" to just about anything... so consent would somehow have to be proven on some deeper level. Otherwise I doubt it would work.

Great discussion, haven't been expanding my perception in this area.

Regarding animal consent, to be honest, you can also train Humans to say and do things and they will say and do it, the question is, do animals have freewill. Just because Soldiers 99% of the time follow orders because they have been trained to do so, does it mean they have freewill? Interesting thought.

I will leave this topic with that.

reply to post by confreak


The romantic and meaningful emphasis that is placed upon marriage should be removed as well as the religious context placed upon it. Because when a drunk male Satanist and an atheist stripper can get married by Elvis in Las Vegas, then the next day when they both sober up and they can receive an annulment of said marriage, imo marriage completely loses its romantic and spiritual meaning.

The definition of marriage could use an overhaul.

Originally posted by confreak

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by confreak

 

And don't forget incest either... on Jerry Springer I see cousins wanting to get married all the time.

But regarding the dolphin translation machine, or any other form of animal translation machine for that matter I haven't really thought about. How do you prove consent of an animal? I'm guessing a trainer could teach a dolphin how to say "yes" to just about anything... so consent would somehow have to be proven on some deeper level. Otherwise I doubt it would work.

Great discussion, haven't been expanding my perception in this area.

Regarding animal consent, to be honest, you can also train Humans to say and do things and they will say and do it, the question is, do animals have freewill. Just because Soldiers 99% of the time follow orders because they have been trained to do so, does it mean they have freewill? Interesting thought.

I will leave this topic with that.

I agree with what you said about how humans can be trained to say yes as well. So it would be a matter of freewill. Coercion into marriage imo doesn't count as consent. If a human was brainwashed to say yes in order to marry someone, then there's a serious problem with that.

Marriage is a religious ceremony whether we like it or not. It was part of Gods law for mankind.
When gays get married it's heresy. These laws were for man and woman. When 2 men get married they are going against what marriage was for in the first place. Using Gods laws against him

reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist


Luckily (fortunately?) we live in Aotearoa/NewZealand.

1. gay marriage is wrong because it makes homosexuality look ok.

2. homosexuality is an abnormality. Nature makes male and female organisms, with the purpose of a male and a female having intercourse.

3. animals can be homosexual as well, but that does not make them normal in any way. Homosexual animals suffer from the same cause as humans.

4. homosexual men do not feel like women. They cannot feel like women, because their hormones are different from that of a female.

5. Any homosexual man that is honest with himself will admit that they feel like a real man from time to time, desiring to bang a nice-looking female. But this does not last long, sometimes it lasts only a few seconds. This is only natural because the homosexual man is still a man deep inside. Of course, gays will never admit this.

6. there is no such thing as love between homosexual men. There is only lust. There is no love bond between them, as there is one between a male and a female. Again, gays will not admit that.

7. despite all the above, homosexuals must be respected just like every other human being on this planet.

(I wish I had lesbian friends so I could study them. Unfortunately, I do not. Lesbians are far less than gay men. To me, this is important scientifically: it says that gayness has something to do with male hormones. I also have not seen any lesbian animals).

Originally posted by Dezero
Marriage is a religious ceremony whether we like it or not. It was part of Gods law for mankind.

When god is an ass, where does that leave us regarding this statement?

Originally posted by Dezero
Marriage is a religious ceremony whether we like it or not. It was part of Gods law for mankind.
When gays get married it's heresy. These laws were for man and woman. When 2 men get married they are going against what marriage was for in the first place. Using Gods laws against him

This may be hard to grasp for you, but "god's law" means absolutely nothing when it comes to two people wanting to get married in the real world. Sorry.

Appeal to belief is not a logical argument.

reply to post by troubleshooter


That's a definition of marriage, it isn't a logical argument and just arbitrarily excludes people, not just gays either as not all heterosexual couples CAN or WANT to procreate. Also this was pointed out before but people don't have to be married to procreate. Some men and women are sterile, are you going to use that excuse to deny them their rights too? In the end you're just telling two consenting adults that they cannot indulge in the same freedoms others have. In this case its discrimination based on the fact they can't procreate. Also this was pointed out before but people don't have to be married to procreate.


reply to post by Dezero

Marriage is a religious ceremony whether we like it or not. It was part of Gods law for mankind. When gays get married it's heresy. These laws were for man and woman. When 2 men get married they are going against what marriage was for in the first place. Using Gods laws against him

Just a heads up, some other things that were part of God's law.

People who work on the Sabbath should be put to death, rebellious children should be put to death, Freedom of Religion is outlawed by the First Commandment, if your brother tries to get you to worship another God he shall be put to death. If a girl is not a virgin on her wedding night she is to be stoned to death. Slavery is condoned and their are specific directions on how hard you can beat your slave before its considered a crime. Does any of this nonsense really sound like a God came up with it?

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by confreak

 

The romantic and meaningful emphasis that is placed upon marriage should be removed as well as the religious context placed upon it. Because when a drunk male Satanist and an atheist stripper can get married by Elvis in Las Vegas, then the next day when they both sober up and they can receive an annulment of said marriage, imo marriage completely loses its romantic and spiritual meaning.

The definition of marriage could use an overhaul.

I agree since the whole process of becoming "legally" married automatically detracts from the idea of marriage. It should dealt with as it truly is... "Do you so and so and you so and so hereby agree to enter into a contract with the government since you feel the need to have said government legally recognize and validate your union so that you can proclaim you're "married" to your peers and reap the benefits the government baits you with by claiming yourselves "married?"

Originally posted by Dezero
Marriage is a religious ceremony whether we like it or not. It was part of Gods law for mankind.
When gays get married it's heresy. These laws were for man and woman. When 2 men get married they are going against what marriage was for in the first place. Using Gods laws against him

Was it also God's law that forced the government to perform random invasive pat-downs at the airport, and is it also God's law that makes it okay to remove someone from their home in the middle of the night, ship them to Guantanamo Bay, and torture them?

God is one sick, sick son of a gun, my friend.

And if you don't understand my examples, it was meant to point out that the government officiates the primary aspect of marriage, which means it is humans and not God who dictates who can and cannot get married.

Anybody can perform a wedding ceremony... so technically anybody can marry whoever they want to. But the issue is that a marriage doesn't become legally recognized until the government says it is. And God isn't the US government.

reply to post by technical difficulties


I can't think of one. Back when I was religious (by force), I had plenty of illogical reasons to spout off...thinking they were logical, now I realize how dumb they are.

Originally posted by masterp

Wow, ignorance is still alive and well!

1. gay marriage is wrong because it makes homosexuality look ok.

What is wrong with homosexuality to start with? Just because you personally do not like it, it does not mean that it is wrong. I don't like cats, but they are not wrong.......

2. homosexuality is an abnormality. Nature makes male and female organisms, with the purpose of a male and a female having intercourse.

Says who? Just because you have been socially conditioned to believe this, it does not mean that this is the absolute truth.

3. animals can be homosexual as well, but that does not make them normal in any way. Homosexual animals suffer from the same cause as humans.

Define 'normal' And what is this 'cause' you allude to?

4. homosexual men do not feel like women. They cannot feel like women, because their hormones are different from that of a female.

What on earth makes you think that gay men want to feel like women? You are perhaps confusing gender identity crisis with sexuality. That is another topic altogether.....

5. Any homosexual man that is honest with himself will admit that they feel like a real man from time to time, desiring to bang a nice-looking female. But this does not last long, sometimes it lasts only a few seconds. This is only natural because the homosexual man is still a man deep inside. Of course, gays will never admit this.

I have been gay for all my adult life. I tried to commit suicide because I could not feel attraction to women and I thought there was something wrong with me. You do not speak with any knowledge on the matter at all.

6. there is no such thing as love between homosexual men. There is only lust. There is no love bond between them, as there is one between a male and a female. Again, gays will not admit that.

Then why have I been so heartbroken and devastated when a relationship ends? Why do I miss my partner when he is not around? Why do I have eyes for nobody else?

7. despite all the above, homosexuals must be respected just like every other human being on this planet.

At least we can agree on that one

(I wish I had lesbian friends so I could study them. Unfortunately, I do not. Lesbians are far less than gay men. To me, this is important scientifically: it says that gayness has something to do with male hormones. I also have not seen any lesbian animals).

Mate, you need to go and spend some time on a dairy farm in mating season. Lesbian action going on left right and centre. Also, you have obviously never had to fight to get past the lesbians to the pool table in a gay bar. There are loads of them - you have just had your eyes closed.