Reopening the case file: NASA UFOs

Originally posted by WorriedFriend
A little note to inform people that in their efforts to share any and all UFO and or Alien information/misinformation there are some very confused and lost young people. One of them being my friend (19) that is combating his desire to go search his higher calling to save the entire world from alien invasion, or from the pyramids tipping. Combine the end of the world in 2012 discussions, the controlling governments discussion, the pyramids tipping the world discussion, etc etc etc and you set young minds into a frenzy of fear! You are actually brainwashing young men and women, scitzophrenia being the end result...... MY GOD you site managers who entice people to discuss all this crazy crap should go straight to your earned resting place. I pray my friend returns to normality one day soon.

You signed up today to write this JimOberg.

Didn't one of NASA's satellites recently confirm Einstein's theory of Space and Time? I thought it was suppose to insinuate the whole folding the paper in half to make traveling from point a to point b as the same point to be a possibility? Did it not?

Did we not also discover lone Planets out in deep space? Are we not constantly discovering new things on the Moons in our Solar System?

So from my understanding since there is no evidence of ET visitation, we are suppose to all agree that in theory it is possible, but in reality highly unlikely?

Originally posted by WorriedFriend
A little note to inform people that in their efforts to share any and all UFO and or Alien information/misinformation there are some very confused and lost young people. One of them being my friend (19) that is combating his desire to go search his higher calling to save the entire world from alien invasion, or from the pyramids tipping. Combine the end of the world in 2012 discussions, the controlling governments discussion, the pyramids tipping the world discussion, etc etc etc and you set young minds into a frenzy of fear! You are actually brainwashing young men and women, scitzophrenia being the end result...... MY GOD you site managers who entice people to discuss all this crazy crap should go straight to your earned resting place. I pray my friend returns to normality one day soon.

Sorry about your friend.....My uncle is just the opposite of your friend. He thinks the aliens are to be our saviors and save us from Elenin. AND..he is not on ATS to be influenced here. I will be glad when that thing passes , maybe he will get over it. My other uncle says his brother is just crazy but...........
there will always a doomsday scenario around the corner somewhere., just like this last one..May 21st.

Ellie

Originally posted by spacevisitor
Regarding the subject of all kind of things that are regularly being seen in space such as space-junk, debris, ice-crystals and even ufo’s, I always found what astronaut Dr Story Musgrave said in this video from 3:00 quite remarkable and I wonder myself if it is just me who find that so remarkable....
What do you think he mean to say there?

Since I've worked with Story since STS-6 prep in 1982-3, and we've done event hosting together over the years that followed, I had the opportunity to actually ask him that question. Here's his response in which he endorsed my prosaic explanation of the famous STS-80 video.

From: "Story Musgrave" To:

reply to post by spacevisitor


Thanks you for posting that interesting video.
I'm looking up some information. Be back in a bit.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yes so true, but the same applies to those that wish to dis-believe strongly.

reply to post by SLAYER69

I just got through looking at a video, and it showed the Tether footage.. the Tether was 80 miles away from the shuttle so the things that look little or evidently pretty big. And the Tether is 12 miles long.
Some of this video is Russian. I would have just posted this without the video but someone would ask for the evidence. Also the Second Video I started to make a thread about it but don't have the time to keep up with it. It is an Armada of UFOs over Canada May 21, 2011 [now I said Armada not Invasion]

Originally posted by coolottie
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

I don't think he was eluding to anything, he was stating a fact. Many of our own astronaunts as well as Russians have flat out stated they are ETS and ET craft. Why people that have even worked at NASA have trouble excepting this is beyond me.

I did understand it in the way that he was clearly eluding to already Earth visiting ETs and ET craft, but on a very cunning way.
I think that the people of NASA have no trouble excepting this; I think they are for some reason not allowed to speak openly about it.

Originally posted by coolottie
I worked at NASA and totally believe there are ET craft out there and around the earth.

Did you saw yourself things which you believed were most likely ET crafts during working there, or was it due hear saying?

Originally posted by coolottie
Edgar Mitchell was saying it back in the early 80s.

I know.

reply to post by Phage


You obviously did overlook two of my earlier replies to you, but I am nevertheless still interested in your answer or reaction.

reply to post by spacevisitor


reply to post by spacevisitor

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Looks like an opinion to me. Where does he say anything about interstellar travel?

In his response to Jim Oberg, see my reply above.

some of it is advanced enough to be doing star travel

Originally posted by Phage
I can imagine interstellar travel (speculative fiction is my favorite genre) but that doesn't mean it's possible.

How many years back is it when all the scientists of the world could imagine space travel (speculative fiction was most likely also their favorite genre), but thought also that that doesn't mean it's possible?
And look now to all the things we do in space.

You also do not say that it is impossible.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

You may have not asked but I've answered the question more than once.

I have no doubt that life exists elsewhere. I suspect that intelligent life exists elsewhere. A possibility of ET visitation? Could they visit us? A very, very remote possibility. A slightly less remote possibility of robotic visitation.

Originally posted by Phage

But I don't think we are being subjected to visits of either sort.

It seems to me as if you aren’t absolutely shore of that, why is that may I ask?

Originally posted by Phage
How you can get "proof" out of that statement is unimaginable.

You are twisting my words; I said that he must have some sort of proof for what he said here.

The more you fly in space the more you see an incredible amount of things out there and it back sort of brings to you really a certaintythat there are other living creatures are out there.

Some incredible more primitive then us, some just proteins coming together amino acids and some just single cell organisms, and other civilizations that bin around for million years did or doing unimaginable kind of things.

reply to post by spacevisitor

Looks like an opinion to me. Where does he say anything about interstellar travel?

I can imagine interstellar travel (speculative fiction is my favorite genre) but that doesn't mean it's possible. But he talks about the unimaginable. Things that we can't even think of.

How you can get "proof" out of that statement is unimaginable.

Well, it looks as if the unimaginable has really happened, because my answer to your reply is placed above it instead under it.
How can that happen?
Must obviously have done some time travelling during my writing.

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Well hopefully members can have a more open minded discussion on the topic this time
Also, This is why I posted some other videos. This isn't just about STS088 but all supposed "Space Junk/debris"

Hi SLAYER69, great thread, as in fact all your threads are.

Regarding the subject of all kind of things that are regularly being seen in space such as space-junk, debris, ice-crystals and even ufo’s, I always found what astronaut Dr Story Musgrave said in this video from 3:00 quite remarkable and I wonder myself if it is just me who find that so remarkable.

The OP was interested in discussion of evidence, not merely exchange of opinions, and he sets the tone of his thread.

First, Musgrave's flight STS-80 is often cited as providing evidence of alien visitation, with its famous 'circle' video, but Musgrave has explicitly declared that the video has a prosaic explanation and that while he considers the existence of advanced alien civilizations certain, he's aware of NO evidence they are visiting Earth. So he's saying that people who use HIS spaceflight experience as proof of that claim are not correct. How does that impact the interpretations of his own spaceflight experience as providing such evidence?

Second, the same video presents an interview with cosmonaut Afanasyev about a UFO sighting in space. To assess the reliability of the claims, it seems to me that a serious person would check out the checkable assertions of fact in the program first, to calibrate the program and provide guidance to how much the UN-checkable claims can be trusted. Does that seem reasonable? Why doesn't somebody do it?

While they're at it, why not check on the alleged Afanasyev comments -- not the words the US-made program reads over his in-Russian speaking, but his actual words. Suggestion: google search (or www.yandex.ru) the Russian news media for any independent claims anywhere in the Russian press attributed to Afanasyev describing a visiting UFO as described in this program. Can anybody do that? I tried -- and could find nothing. Zip. So how then do we assess the credibility of this televised claim with NO backup evidence?

reply to post by spacevisitor
More & more UFO researchers are talking to each other about the possibility that the earth is surrounded by a 'shadow biosphere' that is home to space animals...or as Trevor James Constable calls them in his classic book, "the Cosmic Pulse of Life", "critters"!

They live in the sky, invisible space fauna that can be 'seen' with UV & infrared cameras. They also become visible when they slow down their vibration...like a fan's blade becomes visible when it is slowed down.

The natural, living UFOs share this 'shadow biosphere' with UFOs which were built by beings from another dimension. No mechanical ships from other planets. These are organic craft that are made out of the 'steel like' skin of a critter . The craft merges with the consciousness of the dimensional entity in order to cross over to our physical world.

Much like a wild horse that is saddled by a human rider. When the 2 come together, the horse then acts with the intelligence & purpose of the human. It does the riders bidding.

The propulsion for both the space ships & space critters, is free living energy that is ever present throughout the biosphere. Every planet has this biosphere thus the constructed UFOs do travel between the planets...but that does not make them ET. They come from another dimension that is all around us & in their world things are physical for them. Just as we have it here. But they can not bring a physical body over...unless the 'body' is the UFO.

The NASA UFO VIDEOS that slayer is discussing with this thread, show many different UFO phenomena. There are UFOs I see on them, that act & move about 'playfully' & other UFOs that appear as plasma like craft. There are UFOs that go so fast that in order to see them you have to grab single frames at 1/30th of a second & field frames that are at 1/60th of a second. These type 2 UFOs change color & appear as self luminous craft or critters.

The NASA UFOs also show how confused astronauts get when asked what some of these phenomena are. They fumble around & sometimes just say nothing when asked.

On discoverer Martyn Stubbs "secretnasaman" You Tube channel there are nearly 300 clips & anyone spending a little time looking a lots of these will see what I see. These government shot space videos are all showing something that is not space ice or debris. The UFOs are very close to the space station & shuttle & if debris... they would cause big time alarm bells...but they do not!

After the Columbia went down during re entry...the investigation looked at foam 'hits' to the shuttles VS ice & debris. They found that that ice & debris would be deadly..but so would foam..NASA did not bother to photograph the known damage to the Columbia as they believed that foam was OK. Thus we had a shuttle break up & all the astronauts died. Nothing is OK to be close to the space assets, the investigation found...let alone 'hit' something.

All these UFOs are potentially deadly to the space assets & the amazing NASA videos continually show objects very very close to the shuttles & space station. Even during spacewalks! So these objects must be under some intelligent control in order to avoid endless crashes & damage.

NASA knows what they are & that they are observing us. So we do the same & watch them. The NASA videos show the cameras always panning with the UFOs...why follow ice?

Skeptics like Oberg are one trick ponies with only mechanistic explanations. The concepts of a shadow biosphere, or living animals in the skies or any ET, EBE or ED space craft...or free energy is outside their box. The thought that NASA is hiding anything is impossible for the skeptic to believe! Oberg ignores the body of work that the NASA UFO VIDEOS present because he has to. Or his world would come crashing down.

When I look at a fish tank, I don't just look a the biggest fish. I look at all the fish... It's the same with the NASA videos...don't just zero in on 1 big fish (the tether)...look at the whole tank (all the Stubbs/secretnasaman NASA UFO archive) with all it's diversity. That's the best way to see the truth about NASA UFOs in our skies & the space around the planet. And that is what I believe the stunning NASA UFO videos show us.

Very good Point...

A more Earth bound example.........Our Body.

When we look at our body, we see skin and hair, maybe an arm, fingers, fingers nails.

Look closer and we see that our skin appears like scales and the hair grows out of follicles (holes) in our skin.

Look even closer and we would see all manner or critters, bacteria, microbes, etc on our skin.

Look even much closer and we would see our skin is made up of cells, millions of cells interlocked, and under that, many layers of flesh, fat etc etc.

Another example....the Air we breath.

When we walk about in the open, we breath nice fresh air,...

But in that air is dust, bacteria, microbes, insects, dead cells of billions of creatures, dust, dirt, pollen, seeds, soot, not to mention the many gasses (CO2, O2, NO2 etc,) and H2O that comprises our atmosphere........

But when we look at it, it just looks like...Air......

What we See and Perceive, and what is really there, are often 2 completely different things............

200 years ago, they had NO idea about the above, that is now common knowledge to us all......

reply to post by JimOberg

Originally posted by JimOberg
It turns out -- and nobody found this out before I did the detailed analysis -- that the most famous shuttle UFO scenes were occurring in one very brief and special illumination condition -- shortly after sunrise, as the camera is viewing backwards towards the still dark horizon on a special mesoscale lightning search program.

Never heard of that, but it sounds interesting. I might have to read a little about it, because I don't completely understand how this creates that condition for pop up UFOs, other than just the fact its a camera pointed away from the shuttles orbital trajectory?
gcmd.nasa.gov...

That makes sense about the pop up UFOs being caused by a the shuttle's shadow though, considering the sun is never in any of those videos (would that even be possible with the bright light and all?). So the pop up UFOs are rather easily explainable I guess, I don't know why I didn't think of that before, maybe because they seemed so far away on these videos.

Still, there are much more interesting UFOs caught on spacecraft cameras, such as objects that change direction rapidly. In particular the one video (from one of the Apollo missions I think, though I might be wrong?) where a UFO rapidly changes direction after something appears to have been shot from the surface of the Earth at it. Some of these pictures of objects from spacecraft just don't look like anything terrestrial to me, even non functional satellites or space junk with a few that appear to have linear sections of evenly spaced lights or something. This could always be terrestrial secret projects, but I doubt the ability and motive of a government today to build something like what is on these pictures. SLAYER's first post is a perfect example of stuff just doesn't look like space junk or terrestrial spacecraft.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/44f8d295028b.jpg[/atsimg]

Does NASA ever place infrared (and other areas of the EM spectrum) cameras alongside a control camera (visible light) to trying and discover what these objects could be, that could possibly give a good picture of the outline of an anomalous object as well as some other details about it. Just thinking because I don't think I've ever seen anything other than a visible light camera video from NASA.

I hear the USAF and the USN makes some pretty nasty radar equipment too, could AN/APY-2 or SPY-3 radar systems be modified for use in orbit? Or would there be too much interference up there from solar emissions or something? Perhaps some magnetic (or even gravitational) sensory equipment? Just thinking out loud that's all, maybe if we pointed a radar at UFOs it could tell us some information about what all this strange stuff is. I don't know though, NASA may have already done this?

Sorry I would have replied yesterday, but ATS went down just as I was posting.

reply to post by JimOberg

For reference if anyone doesn't know what causes this drag: Orbital Decay

Originally posted by JimOberg
The OP was interested in discussion of evidence, not merely exchange of opinions, and he sets the tone of his thread.

I thought the OPs intentions were this.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I'd like to hear from our members, who like me enjoy discussing and critiquing the subject. Hopefully we could get a lively discussion and or debate going with supportive information, sources and links both pro and con. Please, Feel free to post your photos, videos and or links.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Musgrave has explicitly declared that the video has a prosaic explanation and that while he considers the existence of advanced alien civilizations certain, he's aware of NO evidence they are visiting Earth.

No, he said that his interpretation of the evidence for visitation is that there is no evidence, so that is just his interpretation and doesn’t mean therefore that there is NO evidence that they are visiting Earth.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Second, the same video presents an interview with cosmonaut Afanasyev about a UFO sighting in space. To assess the reliability of the claims, it seems to me that a serious person would check out the checkable assertions of fact in the program first, to calibrate the program and provide guidance to how much the UN-checkable claims can be trusted. Does that seem reasonable? Why doesn't somebody do it?

Because I do not speak Russian, that’s why.

I assume you remember your thread Official: "Cosmonauts Did Not See UFOs",right.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And when I did post a video there wherein a Russian cosmonaut said clearly that he and others has seen a UFO, and Mercedes-Benz was so kind to check it out and confirms that the English translation from what Cosmonaut Pavel Popovich said there is right, you immediately give it another spin by saying that your focus was on spaceflight events, despite you did not mentioned that in your thread title.
So you were in fact confronted with a real UFO sighting from a Russian cosmonaut and you want to get rid of it as fast as possible.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by spacevisitor
Oke, so what is your opinion then on the first video I posted?
Mercedes-Benz was so kind to check it out and confirms that the English translation from what Cosmonaut Pavel Popovich said there is right.

Popovich was reporting something spotted from a commercial flight, not in space.

It's certainly a candidate for a 'UFO', once it's investigated and no prosaic explanation appears.

But that's never happened.

However, I grant that it is credible evidence that a cosmonaut has reported seeing a UFO -- my focus was on spaceflight events, to keep the topic manageably limited.

And after that and keeping it by a UFO sighting during a spaceflight I posted the following.

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by JimOberg
my focus was on spaceflight events, to keep the topic manageably limited.

Oke, I keep it by spaceflight then, do you know something about this sighting, it is an excerpt from the book “Need to Know: UFOs, the Military, and Intelligence” from Timothy Good?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/08064289b114.jpg[/atsimg]

And what did you do, you completely ignored it.

Originally posted by JimOberg
While they're at it, why not check on the alleged Afanasyev comments -- not the words the US-made program reads over his in-Russian speaking, but his actual words. Suggestion: google search (or www.yandex.ru) the Russian news media for any independent claims anywhere in the Russian press attributed to Afanasyev describing a visiting UFO as described in this program. Can anybody do that? I tried -- and could find nothing. Zip. So how then do we assess the credibility of this televised claim with NO backup evidence?

Again, I do not speak Russian.
And because you could find nothing regarding what Afanasyev said in that video, doesn’t mean therefore that the English translation was not correct.

reply to post by SLAYER69


There are so many topic that come up which I find just plain boring and I have been disappointed there have been no UFO sightings since Dome of the Rock which who knows what that ended up being but this is a refreshing change of pace from the day to day around here so thanks Slayer. Great topic. Feel free dust off some more, clean the whole basement if you want and it'll be fine by me

Originally posted by spacevisitor
Well, it looks as if the unimaginable has really happened, because my answer to your reply is placed above it instead under it.

How can that happen?

Must obviously have done some time travelling during my writing.

edit on 22/5/11 by spacevisitor because: Made some corrections and did some adding

It's called editing, not time traveling.

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by spacevisitor
Well, it looks as if the unimaginable has really happened, because my answer to your reply is placed above it instead under it.

How can that happen?

Must obviously have done some time travelling during my writing.

edit on 22/5/11 by spacevisitor because: Made some corrections and did some adding

It's called editing, not time traveling.

Wow, and you are dead serious about that right?
You don’t even recognize that I am only joking there, right?
And you conveniently also ignore all my other replies to you, right?
Well, to be honest with you, I never ever would expect that you would as it looks to me run away with your tail between your legs from a discussion.

reply to post by buzzEmiller

WOW ! You really know your stuff.
It is nice to hear someone put so much knowledge of the subject in one post.