Reopening the case file: NASA UFOs

So..where did this "space junk" go?

Wouldn't it just stay in our orbit?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Jim I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I am short on time at the moment and will address your reply with the attention it deserves later this afternoon. I have [YARD WORK]

to attend to being Saturday.

Before I go though I'd like to ask you the same thing I've asked Phage...
Do you even believe in the possibility of Alien visitation?

Do you believe if it's even possible?

AND

Does JimOberg believe we are alone?

We're certainly not alone in the need to do yard work, especially watering the orchard as the Texas drought deepens....

I have no problem with the idea that some non-human intelligence(s) could be observing Earth, even visiting. They need not be interstellar -- they could be long-ago earthborn spacefaring species. Or from somewhere/when else.

Given the technologies required for such travel, I have no problem with imagining they could do so without ever being spotted.

I can imagine a number of reasons why they might want to remain un-observed [in which case they're probably tearing their tentacles out in frustration wondering who it is we seem to be catching glimpses of],

I can alternatively imagine several reasons why they might prefer to make their presence known gradually [i.e., not land on the White House lawn]. And why this tiny planet may be justified in being treated this way.

That said, I am puzzled why we don't seem to notice activities in the galaxy that are unambiguously artificial -- engineering works, high-energy engines in transit, mega-Chernobyls, even amateur primitive (e.g., radio) playfulness.

I think there are so many non-extraordinary stimuli that create 'IFOs', that there is no NEED for an additional (and extraordinary) set of stimuli to generate the entire 'UFO phenomenon' that our society is immersed (perhaps 'enmeshed' is a better word) in. But the chances that there might be make it worthwhile to tighten up standards until these potential alien stimuli stand out.

So far, I have little grounds for optimism that we can accomplish that.

My particular professional experience in spaceflight operations [and my deep friendships with many space figures including astronauts] makes me want to find better ways to explain it to enthusiastic young people who get, in my view, deflected into blind alleys such as this one. And my passion to penetrate 'space secrets' including NASA's makes me dismayed that too frequent fantasy-based accusations can pollute public opinion when real falsifications and coverups need exposing -- too many 'space wolf' cries.

.

Originally posted by GodIsPissed
So..where did this "space junk" go?

Wouldn't it just stay in our orbit?

Good question.

Much of it is frozen fluids such as water and hydrazine, that sublime into vapor in a matter of hours.

The lighter solid stuff also drops out of orbit very fast at the low altitudes of the shuttles and the space station. An insulation blanket is so much more 'draggy' (ratio of area to mass) than a spacecraft that it can be gone in days. A dropped tool bag may take a year or two.

Even the million-pound station loses a hundred meters or so of altitude every day from air drag -- this has to be made up by periodic rocket firings.

'Differential drag' will usually pull such stuff down and ahead of their points of origin within hours, so they don't hang around.

On occasion something departing the station/shuttle in the right ('wrong') direction has the chance of orbiting back onto a collision course over a period of hours or a few days at most. That's one good reason that Mission Control is very curious about characterizing the departure vector of accidentally-dropped stuff, as on STS-88.

Originally posted by Klassified
And if they are Black budget, even less worries of being seen here and there, or a few slip ups. Because there's always someone on the ground prepared to speak with "authority". And tell you that you didn't see what you think you saw.

Also consider that if it's 'black budget', it's to one's advantage that the public misinterprets the sighting as 'UFO' rather than get curious about the real cause. So UFO proponents may actually be unwitting tools of secret human programs, by misdirecting public attitudes.

One of the most rewarding lines of my personal research on this subject was realizing -- and documenting -- that this is exactly how the old Soviet 'UFO flaps' in the 1960s and 1970s started -- secret Soviet space and missile events that the government decided were better mistaken for aliens than for what they really were, such as illegal space-to-ground warhead tests or launches from secret cosmodromes. And in the 1950s there were the CIA-launched 'Moby Dick' spy balloons drifting through Soviet skies [and some US skies -- I saw one in 1957 65,000 feet over the Hudson River].

reply to post by JimOberg

You're scaring me here Jim. That's two posts of yours I've starred today. Stop that!

reply to post by SLAYER69
Slayer I have Never enjoyed reading a thread so much as this one. thanks

The over blown theory of "space junk" is even more unrealistic that UFOs. If there was this much space junk out there the NASA Missions would have to be shut down. And the ISS would be constantly moving.

Here is a site where you can Track Space Junk with Google Earth. Those with the Space Junk Theory need to use this, so they can at least get a realistic idea and know where there is junk and where there is "Something Else"

The growing sphere of space junk surrounding the Earth is a hazard to spaceflight, as International Space Station astronauts found out Thursday when their home was buzzed by a five-inch piece of debris.

www.wired.com...

A fleck of paint less than 1 cm left this crater on the windshield of Shuttle Challenger on STS-7

This is how many objects are being Tracked all the time, they know exactly where each piece is. As Big as Space is out there, now way is this space junk in the STS-75 videos. 13,000.

The U.S. Space Surveillance Network is currently tracking over 13,000 human-made objects larger than four inches (ten centimeters) in diameter orbiting the Earth. These include both operational spacecraft and debris such as derelict rocket bodies.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

Ice Crystals are not all over space.
The reason for growth experiments on the ISS, first one in 1997. This experiment was also conducted on STS-75 Mission.

In 1998, the world's first space experiment with ice crystal growth was conducted using a sounding rocket launched by NASDA (now part of JAXA). This experiment, which used a microgravity environment created by the rocket's sub-orbital flight, confirmed the performance of the device we had designed for producing ice crystals (Figure 4). Unfortunately, we couldn't make ice crystals more than once because we were able to create the gravity-free environment for only 360 seconds. But our new device, which is an upgraded version, is now complete, awaiting its launch in 2008. The experiment will start in spring 2009. In the permanent microgravity environment of the International Space Station, it's possible to conduct the same experiment 100 times, or even 200 times. A great advantage of space experiments is the ability to repeat experiments over and over in such an ideal environment.

www.jaxa.jp...

Then they say Water Dump.

Blaez on this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...
Thank you Blaez where ever you are!!!

Anyways, we can exclude a water dump.
have been checking the mission logs for that time, and they did not do any water dump.
The tether experiement started on mission day four, the sequence we are seeing with the debris are filmed on mission day seven.

Blaez source: science.ksc.nasa.gov...

These same people that keep saying Space Junk and Ice Crystals never ever show any proof at all in what they are saying. They think if they just keep saying it long enough we will believe it. NOT!!

There was No Water Dump the Day this was Filmed, and with the Dark Blue Tint, it was Taken with the UV Camera
Not Space Junk, Not Ice Crystals.

Very good to see the old videos atleast this people cannot call it Hoax or fake because it looks original unlike these days everyone says its cgi or made up but i'm sure to believe that those were real flying objects in space.

If the aliens are so damn advanced in carrying space crafts then i'm quite sure they would also be misuse of these alien technological space crafts and reveal to humans(not just one or two agents but everyone) since this has not happened yet...are you saying that whatever aliens live somewhere and move above earth or below or near our solar system in a space craft are only of traveler kind? then where are they going? I would have the best example, today we're not advanced and when we're advanced enough travel between planets to galaxies or literally anywhere in search of discovering other species or farming a planet to plant a species like if we were some experiment of alien scientists and the birds flying in day light are the watchers used by alien far from remote location, what are they waiting for? why can't they help us join their if we're intelligent as of since a century since we're able to understand and adapt anything and not a ape or animal to say they don't know anything.

Originally posted by Phage
If they are so advanced and trying to stay hidden, why do they seem to get busted as much as they do?

It’s obvious they are not trying to stay hidden in my opinion, because if they would do that we would not have such a thread like this and all those countless others in my opinion.

And may I ask about which busted crafts do you speak here?

reply to post by CanadianDream420


This looks pretty much like it's symmetrical, and perhaps it is aerodynamic as well. It certainly looks like something exotic that we might have hidden away somewhere.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by David291

 

It can especially account for "abductee" accounts. The phenomenon of sleep paralysis fits the bill perfectly.
www.castleofspirits.com...

I disagree with you here, because sleep paralysis alone do not fit the bill perfectly for all the "abductee" accounts, see for instance what Dr. John Mack did say about that.

Neurophysiological explanations include sleep paralysis and temporal lobe epilepsy (Spanos et al. 1993; Persinger 1992; Blackmore 1994), but researchers exploring these possibilities have either failed to find such pathology among abduction experiencers or have chosen to overlook important aspects of the phenomenon.

For example, many abduction experiences occur under conditions that do not appear to be associated with sleep.

Second, abduction experiences are often corroborated by independent UFO sightings or physical evidence.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Well hopefully members can have a more open minded discussion on the topic this time
Also, This is why I posted some other videos. This isn't just about STS088 but all supposed "Space Junk/debris"

Hi SLAYER69, great thread, as in fact all your threads are.

Regarding the subject of all kind of things that are regularly being seen in space such as space-junk, debris, ice-crystals and even ufo’s, I always found what astronaut Dr Story Musgrave said in this video from 3:00 quite remarkable and I wonder myself if it is just me who find that so remarkable.

The more you fly in space the more you see an incredible amount of things out there and it back sort of brings to you really a certainty that there are other living creatures are out there.

Some incredible more primitive then us, some just proteins coming together amino acids and some just single cell organisms, and other civilizations that bin around for million years did or doing unimaginable kind of things.

I wonder why he said so specifically;
and other civilizations that bin around for million years doing unimaginable kind of things.
Is he alluding here to something like for instance Earth visiting ETs?

What do you think he mean to say there?

Originally posted by nightmare_david
WOW

So berg posting 12 minutes after the thread was created doesn't mean anything? He clearly didn't watch any of the videos. Saying that most here have probably already seen them, so there's no point in watching again, is a very pathetic excuse.

If nobody can see the BS in that, they're blind.

You're going after the wrong person here. You need to go back and review his threads and posts, but most of all leave a polite discussion polite and without the drama. Please?

Thanks for another interesting thread Slayer

Phage, that's the first time I've seen you state your beliefs. Good to know where your head is. You are a little quick to discount all sightings however since visitation is an obvious possibility. Closing our minds to possibilities moves us backwards, not forwards. In my case I stay a skeptic even though I personally viewed a classic metallic Saucer from close up in the 1960's and it requires a bit more explanation than mistaken identity. I do not know if it was military or not, but I do know it was not anything mundane like a weather balloon. 30 to 40 feet across and under intelligent control, able to hover and able to accelerate out of sight in seconds. Only a couple of hundred feet over my head in the middle of a clear blue sky in an encounter that lasted perhaps ten minutes. Even so, I mostly agree with you.

On these things in the NASA video's Slayer I tend to think they are explainable things as have been pointed out by others. I tend to think that NASA would not let a video of a secret craft into the public realm, but my mind is open and even though I don't post in these threads much, I do follow them watching and hoping.

The Hutchison Effect is something I've ran into before and I think that is just an attention seeking person pulling a hoax or somebody trying to scam others. If real it could have been repeated on demand with witnesses. If I recall there is a pretty good discussion of that here someplace.

The scientific opinion expressed by Millis in this Wikipedia article is about what I think.

In the end, all we can do is keep sifting through the mountain of useless garbage that surrounds this and perhaps, just perhaps the smoking gun will pop-up unexpectedly or ET will drop by for a cup of Java.

I tend to think that if we are being studied any sighting would be due to a technical malfunction on an unmanned probe of some sort. I find the idea of the craft being real to be a different topic than actual Alien visitation. One of those camera's in space might just catch something and NASA might just miss it so it's possible in my mind. If there is anything I know, it's that if a mistake can be made, it will be made. That and Alien Craft or no, if they are observing us, sooner or later a craft will malfunction.

Thanks again Slayer, I enjoyed the read.

reply to post by SLAYER69


thanks for posting this. u filled that gap in my "viewing" evening.. tonights watch for sure!.

reply to post by spacevisitor

I don't think he was eluding to anything, he was stating a fact. Many of our own astronaunts as well as Russians have flat out stated they are ETS and ET craft. Why people that have even worked at NASA have trouble excepting this is beyond me. I worked at NASA and totally believe there are ET craft out there and around the earth. Edgar Mitchell was saying it back in the early 80s.

If you read my post at the top of this page, you will see that NASA is tracking only 13,000 objects that are bigger than 4 cm. A paint chip hit the window of the Challenger, on STS-7 not any bigger than 1 cm and knocked a crater in the glass. Water Dumps are in the Mission statements, so to know when there is one all one has to do is a lot of reading to findout when that happened.

Only we have some on here that just say everything is from a water dump, when research shows there was not dump that day. Like the Tether Video, there was no water dump that day. And if all of that is space junk the shuttle would not even be up there at all. One 5 inch piece of space junk went by the ISS and it was a hold your breathe moment, because it would have caused major damage.

reply to post by coolottie
Every time anyone posts anything about NASA UFOs these days, Jim Oberg takes the discussion over & goes all "expert" on everyone ...name dropping ...telling us that...'I speak to power' & thus I am the truth teller on all things regarding NASA UFOs at ATS !

Wrong. Jim is a UFO skeptic. More specifically a 'NASA UFO' skeptic! He is 100% B&W on this issue...no matter what NASA UFO evidence he sees, he makes it his priority to explain it away. That's his mission...his goal.

& he pulls it off not because he is a bully...which he is..., but because we let him. He tires us out with the same old UFOs don't exist arguments! An ATS thread starts...Jim jumps in & soon all posts are talking to him & following him down his rabbit hole to his 'skeptic' tank.

So here we are again, letting a mere space journalist who... is the #1 NASA UFO skeptic in America, control the narrative on this NASA UFO thread. I'm not at all sure how you discuss the possibility of UFOs with someone who argues that they just don't exist & so it is ignorant to to even consider the possibilities.

Of course this is nonsense so I just ignore him. All his photo analysis & aging explanations for the NASA videos amount to nothing more than propaganda for NASA 'spin'. Doing this gets him increased access for his job as a space reporter.

Yep to Jim its all delusional paranoia. Well if Jim says it is then it must be true.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by nightmare_david
WOW

So berg posting 12 minutes after the thread was created doesn't mean anything? He clearly didn't watch any of the videos. Saying that most here have probably already seen them, so there's no point in watching again, is a very pathetic excuse.

If nobody can see the BS in that, they're blind.

You're going after the wrong person here. You need to go back and review his threads and posts, but most of all leave a polite discussion polite and without the drama. Please?

What drama? I pointed out that he posted 12 minutes after the thread was created. Phage then implies that if people have seen the videos already there's no point in watching them again. I find that a pathetic excuse. If someone is going to debunk something and be taken seriously, they should at least have the respect to look at all evidence

Here's what people aren't thinking of:

1.) He POSTED 12 minutes after the thread was created. Nobody has considered that he started his reply before the 12 minute period. That cuts the time even shorter.

2.) How does he know those weren't new videos featuring different analysis? He based it on the preview image alone. A preview image may show what he calls a thermal blanket and he assumes it's the same video he has seen before. That video could have going into more that just that object, but he didn't know since he didn't watch them.

I'm just pointing out a couple facts here. That he didn't fully check everything. He went straight into a debunk reply. How about we keep the moderating to the mods, please? If they feel I'm being impolite I'm sure I would be told and I haven't heard from anyone.

People need to question the fact that a NASA employee is soo quick to reply like that. They also need to look at his attitude towards others. Says he wants to help teach the young people about NASA, but has a rude habit of calling people here ignorant fools. Wouldn't you want someone who is more open and unbiased to represent an agency like NASA? If I were head of NASA, I would want an honest, unbiased and open-minded person to represent the agency. Not someone who goes around internet forums and calls others ignorant fools.

He can't even give a straight answer on whether he believes in alien life or not. Look at his reply to that question. He "imagines" this and "imagines" that. That's not an honest answer. That's more like him just saying what he knows others want to hear from him. Which could be coming from the fact that he's getting a little heat in this thread. An honest answer would be a simple yes he believes they exist and may visit Earth or no he doesn't believe they exist or visit Earth. He went with the: "Let's give these people what they want to hear" reply. I refer to it as: "Never A Straight Answer"

Sorry

Double post

A little note to inform people that in their efforts to share any and all UFO and or Alien information/misinformation there are some very confused and lost young people. One of them being my friend (19) that is combating his desire to go search his higher calling to save the entire world from alien invasion, or from the pyramids tipping. Combine the end of the world in 2012 discussions, the controlling governments discussion, the pyramids tipping the world discussion, etc etc etc and you set young minds into a frenzy of fear! You are actually brainwashing young men and women, scitzophrenia being the end result...... MY GOD you site managers who entice people to discuss all this crazy crap should go straight to your earned resting place. I pray my friend returns to normality one day soon.