After Serving Two Tours in Iraq, Ex Marine is Killed in Own Home by SWAT Team

reply to post by jessejamesxx


Making your font size larger does not make you right.

What does it matter how many times they shot him? He was pointing a rifle at them. I would have to say that there is an "oh s***" factor when you come across someone pointing a rifle at you.

The medical personnel first have to be summoned, then they have to be sure the scene is safe before sending in the medics to render aid. The medics get paid to treat wounded and will not enter a location before it is rendered safe.

How do you know what the situation was? Maybe he was shot and got into a room where they could not see him to determine if he was incapacitated or not. You were not there so you do not know.

reply to post by ahmonrarh


Ok so you have one in 2007, one in 2009, one in 2010, and two in 2011. I understand that these do not represent the full number of instances where police impersonators have staged a home invasion but just typing it into google does not give a good reference on how often it occurs. Maybe a study has been done that has tracked the frequency of these types of home invasions but the evidence you are providing does not paint a full picture.

Just because they are trained for basic first aid does not mean they had an opportunity to use it. The very basic training in first aid also tells you to make sure the scene is safe before you attempt to render aid. In a situation like this, it is very hard to first make sure the scene is safe before attempting first aid.

reply to post by pajoly


It is a fluid situation. I do not think they intentionally denied him first aid until he died.

He had a weapon and they shot him. Maybe he was hit and got out of sight into another room. At that point, it is a stand off. They can not attempt to render first aid or send in medics until the scene is rendered safe. There is also nothing that tells the SWAT team exactly when someone is incapacitated.

It sounds like as soon as it was verified that he was incapacitated they attempted medical aid and unfortunately he was already dead.

No I do not agree with allowing someone to die. I do agree with doing things properly and ensuring the safety of the police and medical personnel.

reply to post by areyouserious2010


Calling 9-11 is really great! Only takes them like 2 hours to respond, unless you are in a rich community


I never pull over for the police in a secluded area, ever. Never will.

as for the second one, google is your friend

reply to post by pajoly


I have answered your question.

I think your argument has no teeth so you resort to calling people names to bolster your point of view.

Arizona is in the top 10 for funding of corrections,
but it is in the bottom 10 for funding transportation, public assistance, state police, housing, public parks, pensions, health care, and children's health.

The 71 rounds fired reflect this.

Let's look at the opposite state.

New Mexico is in the bottom 10 for funding of corrections, but above average in those other things. How many atrocities do we find in New Mexico.


copblock.org / new mexico police officer long embroiled in brutality controversy quits force

Just the one cop, and he was forced to retire, for domestic violence against his girlfriend.

Get the picture?

If a state puts a greater percentage of their budget, than the national average, into corrections, and a lesser percentage into transportation and other _useful_ stuff; we are going to get a lot of people at home. With nothing to do, no place to go, and no way to get there. While at the same time we get a lot of well funded police looking to find things to fix.

If on the other hand, a state budget puts a greater percentage of their budget into Higher education, K-12, transportation and other _useful_ stuff; and less into corrections ... we get a bunch of people doing constructive stuff and making life better for everyone. Even the wives of cops.

This shooting was inevitable. Things like this will continue in Arizona. Move to New Mexico if Arizonans are too disinterested to care about their own state budgets.

Arizona budget 27.0 Billion (and spent in dumb ways)
New Mexico budget 15.5 Billion (and spent in smart ways)

/pimp slap hysterical public who read this thread and posted with hate
David Grouchy

reply to post by pajoly


No the case is not closed. You are being rediculous.

Why do you assume the police were standing over him watching him die slowly?

Again, how do you know he was not hit once in the stomache and then made it into another room out of sight?

The medics were probably not requested to go in because it was not confirmed he was incapacitated. The medics will not enter the residence until their safety is guaranteed. It was not a scene where the medics wanted to go in but the police did not allow them to. Once the scene is confirmed safe, the medics are notified and are allowed to render aid.

reply to post by TKDRL


It is a simple way to have an open line with the police if you are very very unlucky to be preyed upon by a police impersonator. The dispatcher would be able to contact the officer by radio who will confirm that you are on the phone with a dispatcher.

If you say you are being pulled over and they can not confirm it is a real officer, I am pretty sure it would warrant a response that would take less than two hours. It is a simple way to confirm it is a real officer if you are that worried about it. Simply saying the police would not respond for two hours lends no credibility to your argument.

If you do not want to stop immediately for a police officer fine. But do not complain when they arrest you for it. Take that reason to court and see if the judge likes it. If he does then fine. I seriously doubt it will be acceptable though.

And no google does not provide a good reference in which to judge how often it occurs. Show me some sort of study where it tracks the occurances and provides some sort of reliable data on the frequency of the events. Posting articles only proves that it does happen. It does not prove that it is as frequent as you say.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by BanMePlz


Try contributing something to the post instead of uselessness. If you want to debate, then sure, present an opinion and try to argue it with logic and reason.

I am waiting. And please try not to cover anything we have already went over.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by BanMePlz

 

Try contributing something to the post instead of uselessness. If you want to debate, then sure, present an opinion and try to argue it with logic and reason.

I am waiting. And please try not to cover anything we have already went over.

The swat team in this case are criminals and they murdered a veteran in cold blood by shooting him in the stomach and then refusing him medical treatment. Period. You can try to be different and state otherwise, i expect that kind of behavior from someone like you..

reply to post by BanMePlz


We have already covered that. I presented my point of view and supported it with argument. Go back, review, attempt to formulate an argument to my points and present that here.

Your current argument that I am wrong just because my point of view is "different" is below the standard of an ATS member.

How can you expect that type of behavior from someone like me when you do not even know me? What are you drawing your conclusions from? I think you either lack the skills of debate or you have no argument to make so you instead degrade to this type of behavior.

Please, prove me wrong.

reply to post by Caji316

“Tucson is notorious for home invasions and we didn’t want it to look like that,” insisted PCSO spokesman O’Connor, exhibiting the dull-witted refusal to acknowledge the obvious that typifies tax-feeders of his station. He also maintained that the death squad “went lights and sirens and we absolutely did not do a `no-knock’ warrant,” a claim refuted by the only surviving witness, Vanessa Guerena. Such details are morally inconsequential, since there was no reason — apart from the institutional vanity of the PCSO and the indecent eagerness of the armored adolescents who compose its SWAT team — to conduct a paramilitary raid to serve a routine search warrant.

y'know this kind of attitude[usually with lower jaw thrust outward], of willful stupidity and ignorance seems almost designed to piss people off [probably in order to establish self defense]

when i was a kid in Harlem back in the 70's; bricks would mysteriously fall from the rooftops.
usually on one of these brutals heads [zardoz ref. not a mistype].

don't get mad get even.

reply to post by sjewell57

Because all you hear from are the people associated with the suspects and of course every mother thinks her kid is innocent. You dont hear about them anymore because the situations that arise are justified. If it was one officer i could see where he could be corrupt but a whole team a swat, i dont think so.

here let me throw that back at you

Because all you hear from are the people associated with the suspects and of course every cop thinks his/her fellow cop is innocent.


you leos need to come up with new and improved excuses, cause the same old justifications are just laughable.


hmm maybe that's why y'all like to attack people a 4 am no witnesses.

reply to post by sjewell57


nice attitude,

you have just admitted that you believe in the the use of force against others as a means to an end
so, basically any further attempts to justify this latest atrocity will now fall on deaf ear's and you are just trolling.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9b7dd6f07254.jpg[/atsimg]

live by the gun die by the gun

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
But an even bigger irony is someone like Bill Cooper. He was gunned down in his driveway by a sheriff. He arguably did more for me than that soldier ever did. Because Mr. Cooper Beheld a Pale Horse. He warned and warned against all kinds of government atrocities. While that soldier perpetuated and enforced government terror.

Bill Cooper was completely insane. He wasn't gunned down by a sheriff. He was shot resisting arrest. He fired first critically wounding a deputy and remaining deputys killed him, entirely appropriately. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

reply to post by Caji316

I have not read everyones comments yet , but right here in the article the obvious is stated Karma strikes Quote " The grim but unavoidable truth is this: We shouldn’t be at all surprised that a Regime capable of sending Americans abroad to terrorize Iraqis in their homes would employ the same state terrorism against Americans here at home"
Sad but inevitable truth .

What goes around comes back around .

Originally posted by pajoly
If this happened in your average humane European country, this would national news, the cops would be brought to justice and a law would likely be enacted to prevent this. But no, not here in the U.S. Here we just turn the page and say, "Gosh, what a terrible accident!" and move on to our next can of cheese whiz and beer.

May the gods rip apart and bury forever this vile nation we have allowed to replace a once decent country. I know, you in your backyard barbeque ater Little League think were are a great nation. Problem is, you are imagining was once was, not what now is and you exist only at the pleasure of your local cop, the government and the banks and businesses that own them.

It is so true! I also find, there once was a time, when the USA at least had the apearence of a decent nation. That is over now. If you Americans go travel abroad, you already denounce your country by claiming, your from Canada, and rightfully so, because you are already being looked upon by so many people of this world as criminals, although the crimes of your government are not even yours...-

reply to post by Aisling


You have a good point here . Is anyone researching that angle . I know its easier to really really hate police like this as we know they are acting out like evil doers , but it would be more fun and intrigue to find out the real reason for this dead of the night raid like thieves in the night against this ex marine .

Yes it does sound like an assasination indeed . His wife must know something . But she has her children to worry about now that she knows they wont hesitate to murder anyone .

reply to post by Anusuia


Read the article. The search warrant was attempted at 9:00 AM.

So all this about "dead of night raid like theives in the night" stuff is totally wrong.

If you think he was murdered by the government because he knew something that is one thing. I would disagree with you. But at least read the article and know all the facts first.