After Serving Two Tours in Iraq, Ex Marine is Killed in Own Home by SWAT Team

Originally posted by caladonea
I am very upset and sad that this has happened....I did some research on this....and I believe that the Swat team did not knock.....that the man didn't know why they were breaking his door down...and he was protecting his family.

Can you share some of that research? Did you find some other articles, because the one linked here is woefully lacking. Or did you interview people in the neighborhood?

I find it odd you would say you've done research and have come to a conclusion, but dont even bother mentioning what evidence you uncovered.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

the police are saying they had their lights and sirens on, as per the article. Dont know if it's true, because this horrible lacking article didnt interview any of the neighbors. Regardless, your post implies you either missed or ignored that bit of info.

I'm not defending the cops. I'm pointing out the facts as reported in this 'article' (to use a term loosely)

I would say common sense would tell you they didn't have their lights and horns on, but it may not be common sense to you...not meant in a insulting manner. You may have no idea about door kicking.

However anyone who does, or has witnessed such will inform you that they do not play the lights and horn when going to kick a door. As someone else said, it would be counter-productive.

Hell I was watching "Capitalism: A love story" last night, and the door kicking they showed at the start, the officers didn't come in with lights and horns.

Lets say they did have their lights and horns on...would someone in this house hear/see them? Does sound penetrate that homes walls sufficiently? Do they keep their curtains drawn and house dark so they wouldn't see the lights? I know in my home I wouldn't see any lights, though I could hear some horns because I'm a corner lot.

Sigh. I merely stated what the article is reporting. They reported the police claim the sirens and lights were on. I also agree that seems a highly unlikely scenario, but since the 'reporter' who wrote up this story didnt bother to interview anyone in the neighborhood, there is only two different people's words (the cops and wife).

I was clarifying for the post I was responding to, who seemed unclear on to basic facts. Perhaps you should go back and reference it, for proper context.

Personally I'm surprised that so many in this thread seem to blindly accept the highly sensationalized nature of the 'article'. Is that a defense of the cops alleged actions in any way? Not at all. It's a critique of the lack of verifiable information available, and the sensational nature in which the little bit of information is presented.

Cops screwed up...has nothing to do with his race,or pst service...or even who he was....they hit the place and killed an unsuspecting man...not the 1st time and wont be the last...as long as "no-knock" warrants are approved,this is the norm....and they wont be going away anytime soon...

This is incredibly sad but unfortunatly not all that surprising nowadays.

My sympathies go out to this mans wife and child.

Originally posted by just_julie
This is disgusting. What has happened to your country America?

We're just regressing back to a much earlier time, that's all...........and perhaps even worse!

Doesn't look like he was an "innocent" civilian murdered by gubbmint storm troopers so much any more:

reason.com...

Originally posted by wasco2
Doesn't look like he was an "innocent" civilian murdered by gubbmint storm troopers so much any more:

reason.com...

Really?? How do you know, since they still refuse to release warrant information. To quote: " However, the department did not provide any additional information about the shooting, which took place during a mid-morning raid on Guerena’s home, where he was apparently asleep with his wife and four-year-old child. Nor did the sheriff offer to unseal the search warrant and court documents specifying what police were looking for in the home and what they seized. "

Nothing they found was illegal. For all we know the weapons were legally registered. Body armor? Yeah, didn't he serve two tours in Iraq? Hmm...wonder where that came from.

The fact is the police refuse to release information. What are they hiding?

reply to post by Abney


matter of point: police dont necessarily release specific information in an ongoing case for obvious reasons.

also, it appears body armor is illegal when connected to a criminal case in AZ.

13-3116. Misconduct involving body armor; classification; definition
A. A person commits misconduct involving body armor by knowingly wearing or otherwise using body armor during the commission of any felony offense.
B. Misconduct involving body armor is a class 4 felony.
C. For purposes of this section, "body armor" means any clothing or equipment designed in whole or in part to minimize the risk of injury from a deadly weapon.

law.onecle.com...

obviously that is a gray area here, since we arent told of the actual crime. just owning body armor in AZ is not a crime.

According to the SWAT members’ statements all law enforcement vehicles approaching Guerena’s home had lights and sirens on and parked in the driveway, Storie said.

azstarnet.com...


Again, this could have been easily confirmed by the writer by merely asking the neighbors. The raid took place at 9:30 n the morning. IF the police's claim is true, at least one person not involved should be able to confirm or deny. lazy reporting.

all we have from this one article, repeated on several sites is too differing stories. very few facts. i'm not inclined to believe the cops, or the lawyer of the wife. let's see some damn journalism here.

the author doesnt seem too interested in digging very deep for answers, which tells me there will likely be no follow ups if his speculations turn out to be incorrect.

i emailed Fernanda Echavarri with some specific questions, but got no reply.

clearly, there are problems with the way the police conduced the warrant, if the wife's story is true. OF course, we have no evidence of it beyond er word, as we have no evidence beyond the police word. it is certainly within a mans right to defend his home with force, but it is also reasonable for a cop to fire on a man pointing a gun at them while they engage in wat 9they claim0 is a legal warrant search.

the 'facts' are very blurry here, and jumping to conclusions either way is likely foolish

i also found this post below the story very relevant to much of the wild speculation displayed in this thread.

As I watch this story unfold, I am dismayed at the wild speculation and wholesale disregard for the truth displayed by the Arizona Daily Star. The comments of the "marine's" attorney were especially poignant: "Christopher Scileppi, who is representing the Guerena family, said nothing seized from Guerena’s home was illegal."

While this may be true, let us dissect it from the typical attorney speak used to couch his comments. Nothing illegal! I suggest that a ski mask and a handgun located in the front seat of a car in a bank parking lot is not illegal either. But the act of donning those items and walking into the bank to conduct a robbery is decidedly illegal. Likewise, owning several semi-automatic rifles, ballistic vests, and police uniforms is not illegal just as the attorney stated. Actually, this probably describes many law abiding citizens--namely police officers. But when these items are possessed by a person who is engaging in nefarious activity--specifically home invasion drug rip offs--it becomes a bit of a problem. So while it is true that these items are not illegal, their manner of use was of some consequence in this matter and I find it noteworthy that the legal counsel chose his words in such a manner.

For that matter, where is the outright denial of illegal activity. Alas, there is none. Instead the attorney stated, "That Storie’s statements were unsupported by facts and meant to discredit Guerena’s character." At this point he is relying on the Sheriff's Department's silence as a means to state there are no facts; actually, Storie is relaying the accounts of eyewitnesses--those officers sent to serve the search warrant on this violent criminal's home. That is right. I called him a criminal.

A Superior Court judge issued a search warrant to go into this man's home because of his involvement in illicit activity. These officers were merely the one's called to gain entry because of the illegal activity involved: Violent, armed robberies of other criminals. The accusation that Storie is sullying the deceased reputation is baseless; he is merely stating the facts presented to him which run counter to the Star's--and much of this community's-- depiction of this man as a "local marine hero."

Prior--or even current military service does not make one a saint. Army psychiatrist Nidal M. Hasan murdered how many of his colleagues in a rampage? Was Lee Harvey Oswald a former marine? This man discredited the Marine Corps; how dare his family try to hide behind his military service. He was invovled in criminal activity and he chose his end; he pointed a rifle at a team of police officers. Does it matter if the police fired 1 or 7 or 70rounds? Does it matter if he fired at the police? Yes it does. But if that first officer through the door was your son or daughter, your brother or sister, or even your spouse, would you not agree that they had every right to defend themselves and get out of their alive?

How many rounds would you allow to protect your loved one? How about yourself? Who was breaking the law here? The officers with a search warrant or the man who responded with a loaded rifle trained on several law enforcement officers. Does anyone see the irony in this community? This community was outraged when a man shot two deputies and killed a police officer with a rifle. We lined the streets at the funeral. We mourned and asked, "Why?"

Now a criminal points his rifle at a cop and dies as a result. And this community has a knee-jerk reaction that the police erred!That was a split second--actually seven seconds in which five men were trying everything to save another officer that they believed had been shot. The call for more facts runs counter to the Star's desire for government transparency. The Sheriff's Department released information too soon--and it was wrong. The department reported that the man shot at officers when the investigation later revealed he did not. Now they are being scorned for this error.

Doesn't it make sense that they say, "No more information until it is all collected, checked, and re-checked?" I'd like to know the facts, not a bunch of hunches and conjecture.

And where did this fact that the man was shot 60 ntimes come from? When I first read this "fact" it was a heresay statement from the robber's wife who said the doctor's told her he was shot 60 times. Now it has become a cold hard fact. Has anyone verified that with the autopsy report? Does anyone really think 71 shots fired in 7 seconds hit this guy 60 times? Not a chance. For that matter there are simply too many facts that have not been disclosed to draw the conclusions that this "newspaper" and Mr. Echavarria have reached. Please demonstrate some responsibility and refrain from sensationalizing this story and inflaming the situation any further.

dynamic.azstarnet.com.../news/local/crime/article_54486592-8257-11e0-950b-001cc4c002e0.html&h=Attorney:%20Tucson%20m an%20killed%20by%20SWAT%20linked%20to%20home%20invasion%20case

Against my better judgement I'm going to post this from an Arizona LEO in a neighboring jurisdiction:

Was NOT a no-knock warrant. They drove up in marked cars with lights and sirens. The police pounded on the door for 15 seconds shouting, in English and Spanish, "Police. We have a warrant. Open the door or we break it down". They have affidavits from neighbors who saw and heard exactly what police said happened. Guerena's wife is either lying or really doesn't remember what happened.

It was not a drug warrant. They were investigating a series of home invasions and had evidence Gurenena was involved. They were at the right house and served it at 9:00AM just so they couldn't be mistaken for home invaders. Evidence found at the scene also implicates him. Part of the evidence collected was a partial police uniform. The uniform may not be illegal to own but it is illegal to impersonate a police officer.

The 71 shots were fired by 5 officers when they broke down the door and saw a crouching Guerena point an AR-15 at them saying, "I've got something for you". It doesn't really matter if the safety was on. They probably couldn't see if it was on and even if they could they were still within their right to shoot. The round count is not high if you consider it was less than one magazine for each officer. They are highly trained and trained to shoot until the threat is negated. I know people who can empty, on target, a 9mm or .40cal magazine in under two seconds.

I still have a problem with how long he lay dying without medical treatment. The LEO pointed out it can take that long to clear a house safely despite what we see on TV and in the movies. As also pointed out, the SWAT team has EMT trained members.

Now we get to the against my better judgement part. There is no way you can verify my account. I'm not going to name the Arizona LEO or where I got in touch with him. LEO do screw up and some are corrupt but it looks like that's not the case here. It looks like a Marine vet faced with supporting a wife and kid decided to use his military training to break the law.

There seems to be a lot more to this story, it just don't add up. How could a group of trained officers be that inept? They must live by the adage "shoot first and ask questions later." I've been reading accounts of this from different media sources and I am curious how it turns out. Hopefully the truth will come out and justice will be done. Either way it will not bring the 26 year old back.

Originally posted by wasco2
There is no way you can verify my account. I'm not going to name the Arizona LEO or where I got in touch with him.

I believe you but some might not consider the claims of another LEO very reliable.

reply to post by Caji316


usa for ya

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


maybe.

but i'd rather die defending my home and family than bending over for the government cronies who think they have the right to come into my house without a warrant.

i don't fear death.

reply to post by Jezus


Really, that's their problem. I believe this guy but he is getting the story from other officers who were only peripherally involved in the raid. They may not have all the facts or their "facts" may be wrong. I just thought I would throw it out for consideration.

amazingly #ed up.. thank you for sharing. Sounds to me from reading that article and others that they went there with the intent to kill him.

"emergency medical personnel kept out of the home for approximately an hour, even though his wife was pleading for help? Guerena was dead when they were finally allowed in."

reply to post by lostanima


You do understand they HAD a warrant, don't you?

And met an armed man holding a rifle saying aggressive things....so he cops see an armed man and dont respond?..In essence,give him the 1st shot?...hmmm...weird thinking on this thread

reply to post by Homedawg


According to their report, which I don't trust whatsoever... Did you see the police's official response to picking up and tagteam tripping that wheelchair dude on his face? Yeah, they are not honest too often, covering their asses is their first priority.

reply to post by TKDRL


Was the wheelchair cop episode the same department?..I missed that...I thought that was entirely different cops...hmmmm