Remember when the US Army invaded China? Don't remember marching on Beijing? I do.

nice info!!

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Your links do not work for me. And you think that voila, the communist Revolution happened with nothing preceding it?

So it's my fault you cannot use search engines or wikipedia?

There is this thing called doing your own research and providing evidence for your claims. You have done none of this.

PROVE that Communism has anything to do with the Boxers.

If you can prove it, I will admit you are right and that I was wrong. Simple.

However I seriously doubt that will come to pass.

It looks to me more like you are trying to depict the US as an Imperialist force. And how convenient to tie it in to the recent killing of Osama.

Also, you forgot to mention that Russia was also occupying lands in the region.

Russia had meanwhile been busy (October 1900) with occupying much of the northeastern province of Manchuria, a move which threatened Anglo-American hopes of maintaining what remained of China's territorial integrity and openness to commerce (the "Open Door Policy") to all comers, but paid the concept only lip service. This behavior led ultimately to a disastrous Russian defeat (in the Russo-Japanese War) at the hands of an increasingly confident Japan (1904-1905), as they maintained garrisons and improved fortifications between Port Arthur and Harbin along the southern spur line of the Manchurian Railway constructed on their leased lands.

www.newworldencyclopedia.org...

More or less, the Communist Revolution rose in the wake of the Boxer revolution. It may or may not have been the result of communist agitation against "Western Imperialist" influence, but the Revolution certainly came on the heels of the revolt.

Following the Boxer Rebellion1 of 1900, (ridding China of all foreigners, massacring all missionaries and Christian converts), China's citizens experienced starvation, extreme poverty, and grief resulting in the loss of many innocent lives. This set the stage for the acceptance of men like Zedong and the godless Communistic philosophies of Karl Marx. After being under the rule of warlords around 1916, many Chinese began joining revolutionary groups and political parties in hopes of changing their country. During and after the Great Revolution (1914—1918), China saw several movements which strongly fostered a path into Communism.

www.allaboutphilosophy.org...

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

It looks to me more like you are trying to depict the US as an Imperialist force. And how convenient to tie it in to the recent killing of Osama.

Who tied anything to Osama?


I guess I missed that part. I apologize. I really don't see a connection...

reply to post by muzzleflash


Thanks for reading my post i feared it was a little lengthy so it wouldn't get much attention and i'm glad you've take a few things from it, I am doing a law degree starting in october with the intention of going into civil/human rights, thus my knowledge on the subject, but fear I will probably get lost in debt and have to work a standard less fulfilling area of law.

On the topic of america being imperialist, whilst I agree that america is often attacked on this site - at times unfairly - there is good reason to call the USA an imperialist nation as by the definition ; "A policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force. " , however i feel america often resorts to the latter due to the heavy influence of arms manufacturers as a result of the two world wars. It is no secret america uses false pretexts to invade countries for economic reasons, if you read my earlier post i refer to you that post ww2 the middle east was recognised by Eisenhower as the most strategically important area of the world in terms of place and resources. However the USA are not the first to use this strategy, this passage may enlighten you as to where they got their 'counter-terror' initiatives from:

It is traditional for states to call their own terrorism "counterterror," even the worst mass murderers: the Nazis, for example. In occupied Europe they claimed to be defending the population and legitimate governments from the partisans, terrorists supported from abroad. That was not entirely false; even the most egregious propaganda rarely is. The partisans were undoubtedly directed from London, and they did engage in terror. The US military had some appreciation of the Nazi perspective: its counterinsurgency doctrine was modeled on Nazi manuals, which were analyzed sympathetically, with the assistance of Wehrmacht officers.

The US are imperialist by definition, they have used force in indochina, force in central america and more recently force in the middle east for economic gains, anyone denying this would be foolish to assume america and its partners would give up trillions of dollars for 'freedom' and 'democracy' (although i assure you they want the opposite, as TRUE democracy in the middle east would result in them getting them and their private investments booted out). In terms of imperialism through diplomacy, look at the several dictators they have propped up as i earlier pointed out, and we all know of the 'arm of US' that is Israel, as well as their sponsorship of atrocities in south africa labelling nelson mandela's african national congress as "one of the most notorious terrorist groups" despite constant attacks and brutality subjected on his people and the natives.

I am by no means trying to start a war or troll or any of that forum jazz, i just wish to put my views across and you may label me a leftist or whatever but ultimately I just wish for peace and co-existence among humans (despite the obvious difficulties) and i personally believe america actively works against this on a day to day basis due to the ridiculous profits they make.

P.s. Sorry if this is horrendously off topic, feel free to delete if so.

EDIT: I'm not so sure about this particular example being a great example of american imperialism if the OP is trying to make a point of that, he would be much better suited to referring to modern times in my opinion, say late fifties to today.

never knew about this, thank you sir

Im not even reading into this thread anymore than what the OP posted. I really hope someone has informed you of how badly you have interpreted whatever info you have found regarding the boxer rebellion. It was a rebellion by a group of rebels against the chinese govt which was then still an empire. We went to help. I did get a pretty good laugh though. You seemed so exited.

While were on the subject though I would like to point out that this was a conflict full of heros and bravery. (Yes they do exist within our military) Over 30 medals of honor were awarded. Dan Daly and Smedley Butler also fought there. Anybody associated with the Corps knows those 2 names.

As a History Major currently in College , you would figure I would have at least heard of this before. Never even heard this once mentioned before. I wonder how many other low scale wars there were like this...well if 40,000 people died it is not so low scale. Thank you for this thread!

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

It looks to me more like you are trying to depict the US as an Imperialist force. And how convenient to tie it in to the recent killing of Osama.

Who tied anything to Osama?

I guess I missed that part. I apologize. I really don't see a connection...

Never mind, it was stuff I read on another thread, people reacting to the Osama kill, which was actually done on a Marxist's watch, which further confuses things.

I apologize for my reaction though to your OP.
I knew I had seen a movie using the rebellion as a central theme. Check this out.

reply to post by thefirstrasta


See my posts of how the Communists rose to power after the rebellion. The Russians were camped out in Manchuria at the time. Maybe that is where the term "Manchurian Candidate" evolved...To point to the West as imperialists while Russia had its own imperialist nature is at best ludicrious but to be expected of anyone with a leftist position.
Anita Dunn, an avid worshiper of Mao gave an infamous talk at a student event.....saying how he was her favorite "philosopher". These are the kind of people employed by the current POTUS. It's as if the minute he was inaugurated, every communist sympathizer came out of hiding.

And tell me this...was the Communist invasion of Tibet also a result of "Western Imperialism" ?

Originally posted by muzzleflashMaybe it's time the 8 nation alliance comes clean and apologizes formally and publicly to the Chinese people for what we did 110 years ago? I think that would be a honorable thing to do, personally.

Ok, then where do we stop? 150 years? 200 years? 5000 years?

Should I start demanding apologies from Italy for the Romans' Gallic War over 2000 years ago? Or maybe the Greeks should start apologizing to Turkey for Alexander the Great?

reply to post by Riposte


I actually found a site that said reparations made to these 8 nations by the Chinese govt were used by the West to help Chinese students.

Well isn't it like the old US of A of trying to be the NWO since the earliest days of the 20th century?

Spanish American war.
(Democratic party urged republicans invade Cuba, real or false flag, like another false flag project Northwoods in 1955 for Cuba that was never materialized)

Boxing Rebelion.
(a sort of a NATO of it's day invading China)

First World War.
(Austria which back then called the shots for Germany and Hungary as a joined state Austro-Hungary invade Serbia with a pretext of the murder of King Ferdinand the incoming heir of the Austro-Hungarian throne since there was a monarchy. The alleged murderer was a Serbian nationalist)

Second World War.
US bankers baking Hitler. Germany bitter after the defeat of First World War initiates or is being convinced to initiate a long social and technological plan that ends in the creation of the Nazis and the stage is set for attacking the whole Europe.
Second World War ends by the emergence of the US in the Global Scene as the saviors of Europe and a future bulwark against communism and the evil USSR. The New Global Empire is advertised by the "American Dream" an effort projected across the entire World aimed in bringing the best and most capable minds and hands clever of the world under one flag furthering this agenda. The whole Nazi-German spy ring and the scientific capability of the Nazis whisked away in US and Argentina by US agencies.

The Cold War.
2 years after the end of Second World War a Powerful National intelligence agency emerges destined at the future to set the world on fire creating a plethora of war zones and widespread political instability across the Planet. The agency was initially created for the enormous data from unimagined technological and social advances of the Nazis to be absorbed by the US war machine.
5 years after the war the Operation Gladio is launched across Europe for preserving the newly acquired American sphere of influence in Europe against the alleged adversary of the western World the USSR. Cold War starts

The outsourcing years.
45 years later after the collapse of the USSR a massive outsourcing trend is initiated of Western companies and institutions that relocates technology, know how and services at Asia and especially in China that 20 years later and after the sudden destruction of the real number one industrial economy of the Planet that was Japan combined with the global economic crisis of 2008 that mostly hit Western economies and the Chinese tendency for accumulation of vast amounts of physical Gold, leaves China as the number one economy of the whole World.

"The Revolutions".
Interests close to the US banking system and the Western intelligentsia launch a domino of political instability in the Balkans by bankrupting Greece and holding the European Union coherence hostage in a standstill or by forcing or blackmailing as active participators some of its vital members as a whole set of revolutions are set to erupt in Northern Africa and the Middle East along with a war against the toughest target of the North African region Lybia, in order to upstage mostly regimes that started putting Sino Russian and Indian projects more closely at heart than their US and Western allies and challenged a fainting US and Western hegemony in Middle East and the Mediterranean.

A New enemy is now the rival of the Global American Empire. A new alliance is mostly feared by the sphere of Western intelligentsia. A joint Sino Russian Indian alliance which the first step of its emergence would be A JOINT OIL PIPELINE PROJECT IN PAKISTAN at 2012.
The long planed counter move of the Western sphere of influence is AFRICOM African Command Project aimed at militarizing the African Continent and setting a stand against a future Sino Russian and Indian economic expansion in Middle East, African countries and the Balkans which are the entrance of the East to the West.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I think you misunderstood me, nowhere did I suggest that the US was the ONLY culprit of such actions i was merely pointing out their prominent role in recent history in terms of imperialism and that they cannot be held unaccountable for this just because they are the US with the "your either with us or against us" mentality. I have studied communism my friend and i tell you now I am in no way a supporter of it, especially in the forms it has manifested in russia/china etc. (state capitalism under the guise of communism), as often it is subject to similar criticisms that I am applying to the US. As i stated I agree on this particular issue that it might not be a good example of western imperialism if that is what the OP is trying to assert, but it would be plain ignorance to suggest there is no such thing at all - which is the point I was trying to make. Sorry if this was not clear, but i dont think at any point i supported communism or the atrocities that have been as a result, I have visited china and I can tell you, whilst beautiful and full of beautiful people, has indeed been ravaged by communism and the effects are shocking.

I am appalled that anyone would praise Mao, especially someone in a position of power, but i feel you are making assumptions of my character - I do not support Obama (I am from the UK) and I have little sympathy for him as he declared "Change", especially fooling the deprived black community that are in desperate need of change by playing what I believe may have been a 'race card', sorry if this is out of order. However I would like you to perhaps take on board the previous comments I have made about the Wests foreign policy with an objective mindset as opposed to completely ignoring them as some sort of left vs. right attempt, especially when Obama is continuing these shocking foreign policy 'initiatives', so it seems we may be on the same level in that regard. Hope this clears things up, I am not trying to be your enemy and i assure you, i am no communist - just trying to present facts that have been largely distorted or ignored by MSM in the past, as in the trend of this thread.

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by muzzleflashMaybe it's time the 8 nation alliance comes clean and apologizes formally and publicly to the Chinese people for what we did 110 years ago? I think that would be a honorable thing to do, personally.

Ok, then where do we stop? 150 years? 200 years? 5000 years?

Should I start demanding apologies from Italy for the Romans' Gallic War over 2000 years ago? Or maybe the Greeks should start apologizing to Turkey for Alexander the Great?

US public education system?
First mention of anything Turkic as a meaning of anything related to an ethnicity came at least 1600 years after the end of the Alexanders Campaigns.

I had no idea or ever heard of this before?

S&F

Huh well what do ya know, I learned something new today. A history lesson that was denied to me in school. Well they sugar coated slavery and tried to justify the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Native Americans. Then this, im sure if they rewrote this story for history class they would have difficulty explaining it unless a false flag attack was staged during that era. Back then we just raped pillaged, and took what we wanted. Today we rape pillage for our own conglomerate world banking oppressors under a false pretext. While wearing a mask of false pride the whole while.

It sometimes pisses me off how American "history" textbooks include something worthless like who fought in a 10 man battle but doesn't information that makes the US look bad.

I guess it's because they want it sold. But we're talking about "education" where there should not be bias.

reply to post by thefirstrasta


No, I did not misunderstand you. Your post is clearly typical leftist hatred of America. And you and others get stars for it. .How completely disgusting. May I remind you that the raid on the Osama compound came on a Marxist President's watch. While the Boxer Rebellion appears to be a genuine uprising against foreign powers, Communism came right in on the heels of the chaos. Further reading shows that Shaolin monks were part of the rebellion and fought for the Imperial army. It appears that the Buddhist temples were destroyed in all the conflict. But where are all the leftists to talk about Chinese invasion of Tibet and the communist destruction of temples there?

And don't call me a friend right after you call the US an Imperialist nation. You are acting as if the communists never invaded korea or viet nam or Cuba or any of these places. You are acting as if communism never influenced South and Central America. I am perfectly aware of Che guevara and other communist infiltrators. I am also aware of La raza and MEChA and their reconquista agenda and hard core communist influence in the invasion of the Southwest.

They never taught us anything like this in Australian schools, and I haven't come across this before myself. This is completely new to me, starred and flagged

Don't know what school you attended, but we were taught about the 'Boxer Rebellion' in 7th or 8th grade, IIRC.