I have a bad feeling that the war on conspiracy theorists has begun (or at least has been ramped up)

reply to post by AeonStorm


i have been noticing, espicaly with that cnn report posted here a few days ago with those two ass hole basicaly sterotyping us. there could be some attempt to try to get us rejected from mainstream society if we continue to ask questions, but they wont shut me up ever!!!!

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by TWILITE22
reply to post by newcovenant

 

No he doesn't have a point because they(msm) are on some kind of campaign to put conspiracy theorist in with the terrorist.How soon they forget that we still have freedom of speech,that is until they decide to take it away.

THIS IS A WAR ON FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

edit on 6-5-2011 by TWILITE22 because: (no reason given)

If freedom of speech was in danger Westboro Baptist Church would be GONE - but it isn't - so freedom of speech has never been safer. Not like during the Bush years when a couple was asked to leave an event for wearing peace signs on their T shirts. Where were all you vigilantes then?

wrong they piss all over the constitution all the time,why is our freedom of speech any different. Now the WBC,is an whole other can of worms,who's funding them?,Our government has been known to create problems only to solve the problem with more laws they have been doing this for a long long time,and still nobody sees it coming...........I really hope I am wrong

reply to post by TWILITE22


I think the Supreme court just ruled. If you ask me freedom of speech should have a few constraints just like don't yell fire in a theater. Lots of people are trying to do that here. Not everywhere of course some of this information is vital and true but the rest is pure unadulterated disinfo.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by legitbrah
I believe that BIG things are indeed about to happen.

And anyone with any sence of the world has seen it comming like a turtle in the distance.

Why else would there be record numbers of traffic on ATS the last few months.

Why else would there be record traffic on the Alex Jones Show?

We're not all crazy. Some crazy f'd up stuff is going on and lots of people are still ignorant to it.

The way we deal with the enviornment, the economy, the government, oil and food (water comming soon) among other things will all have to change very soon or else this planet and this brilliant race of people, along with other life on this planet is screwed.

BTW ... The reason I started comming to ATS is because I saw a UFO about a year ago. Classic silent triangle with yellow lights, gliding slowly close to ground in a remote location.

After my last year of reasurch on various topics; life in general.

It is my professional opinion as an 18 year old that it is either going to take exponentially better Leadership and Actions of the people of earth ( Btw i don't think we can sustain 6 billion of us [soon to be 7] ) ... Or it's going to take the Aliens comming down and biach-slapping us all on December 21st 2012 if we haven't figured our shiz out by then.

either that, or we will all die a slow, painfull death in a crazy, polluted planet...

or we might just NUKE ourselfs, thats always the quick way out.

I think there will be UFO's en mass near the end of 2012. I think there was some agreement to keep their existence secret at least until then. World governments are in a scramble NOW to figure out how to tell us if to tell us and what to tell us.
I believe many conspiracy theories are true but as another poster said, I am a theorist.

A conspiracy theorist is a nut who thinks EVERYTHING is a lie.
News flash - everything isn't, though many things are.
A rational person will investigate and eventually be able to tell the difference. They will not hop on the first bandwagon their friends are on.
I am a thinker, awake and aware of the potential for lies and threats but also able to distinguish and handle the truth when I see it.

And you are a "conspiracy theorist." Pleased to meet you.
You don't mind if I keep my weapon on me do you?
Not that I don't trust you.

edit on 7-5-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

I am also a thinker, awake and aware.
But there is so much propaganda and lies lately that I'm happy to label myself a conspiracy theorist. To me that just means I ask questions, not that I'm going to jump on every conspiracy bandwagon (like I said I never even went on ATS untill I saw a UFO with my own eyes)

And wtf is that shiz about keepin a weapon on you?
I'm trying to help this planet and it's people
Can't you see that from the concearn of my 1st post?
geeeez

reply to post by legitbrah


It was a little joke. Lighten up. And I think you should probably have a drink.

Originally posted by newcovenant
This OBL thing will pass quickly and from what I gather on the news a majority of his own people are glad he is gone. Guilty or not I suppose.
Now stop and imagine bin Laden in US custody and having to give him to Pakistan or whoever to await a trial.

Well, I thought our system of justice, and due process, were some of the things that separated us from our enemies and were supposedly the reasons they hated us. I can't imagine any situation, in which we would have to give Bin Laden over to anybody. And, I also can't imagine him getting off on a technicality, other than innocence, but if he was who they say he was, he would have plead guilty anyway. If you remember when some Muslims wanted to build an Islamic center a few blocks from ground zero, how quickly freedom of religion was thrown out the window, now this. People outright saying he did not deserve a trial, and they are glad he was executed. It can be argued that from a philosophical standpoint, they've won.

That said, I'm not broken up about it, if this is all true. The SEALs will never be able to tell us what really happened, maybe he was going for a weapon. I've always said the way to combat terrorist orgs is not through conventional military invasion, but through special ops hunter/killer teams. I'm on record here on ATS saying that on many occasions, long before this happened.

If on the other hand you think he was already dead it is hard to imagine his wives and children and the most radical Muslims of all the Stans are in on the attempt of your own government to fool you.

Well, it really all depends. I've said before if he died of natural causes, perhaps the AQ leaders close to him were fooling their followers as well. It doesn't do them much good to allow it to come out that Allah, or whomever allowed their main guy to die in bed of natural causes, therefore not getting his virgins or ticket to paradise. It may serve them just as well to say the U.S. infidels martyred him. Wouldn't you agree? Why would they come out and confirm the U.S. story so quickly, even if it was true? You'd think they would try and capitalize on all the suspicion, and muddy things more. But they didn't, they came out with an official statement backing up the U.S. government? Seems strange, unless it suits them too, no?

Anger in the Muslim community will pass quickly.

Exactly. Which is why photos should have been released. The American people should have come before extremist Muslim sensibilities. The American people deserved to see with their own eyes, that our #1 enemy was really gone.

reply to post by 27jd


First off you don't send in Navy Seals to "arrest" somebody. The military is for killing "bad guys". So your thoughts on special/ops is dead on. Trying OBL in the US courts is rather pointless since the rights of our citizens and the rights of foreigners should be different. And considering the agendas of it's members the UN is hardly a reasonable choice either. The traditional legal arguments are not possible in a situation dealing with foreign nationals, very little evidence would be admissible due to the methods that are used. You might not be able to see how OBL could get off on a technicality but I think many could. A lawyer is trained and paid to find loopholes in our laws and since the wording of said laws is left open to many interpretations it is very possible.

reply to post by hangedman13


Well, that may be true. Like I said, I'm not too broken up about it if it's true. I just have my doubts given all that's gone down since. Remember, we did put foreigners like the Nazis on trial, and many other AQ terrorists as well.

ETA: If I remember correctly, U.S. special forces were used to arrest Manuel Noriega, no?

I'd just like to echo what some others have said on here. in the recent news coverage of OBL's death, I have never heard the words "conspiracy theorists" mentioned so much on TV. It's pretty bizarre.

On CNN they were talking about how to satisfy the conspiracy theorists in relation to OBL's death. What should the government do, etc. Why the sudden concern over satisfying this segment of the population?

If some conspiracy theories are true, the internet has potentially created problems for those that commit them. Even if disinformation makes it impossible at times to discern fact from fiction, the internet (and how it connects people and opens up more information more easily) potentially makes more people question the official story.

as anyone else noted yet that the way the US govt is releasing info about OBL's death almost seems to INVITE conspiracy theories?

Almost like they WANT people to draw all kinds of conclusions?

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
as anyone else noted yet that the way the US govt is releasing info about OBL's death almost seems to INVITE conspiracy theories?

Almost like they WANT people to draw all kinds of conclusions?

If the government were lying about this (not saying they are) or have lied in the past about certain incidents (or even committed "false flag" operations), the kind of approach you mention would be the best way to go about getting away it.

This way it creates conflicting opinions, disinformation, etc. and then it becomes virtually impossible (without concrete proof) to tell fact from fiction. Which is why most conspiracy theories will never, IMO, actually hold those responsible (if in fact the theory in question is true), but it could potentially make more people hesitant to believe what they are told, which I think is why conspiracy theorists are starting to get more attention in the media.

A non-complacent, questioning public = potential problems.

Although based on what I saw on Sunday night I think we're a LONG ways off from that sort of public in America.

Here's an opinion piece I just ran across slamming conspiracy theories and theorists related to this week's OBL story...pretty interesting reading.

Philosophers and historians have long grappled with the problem of evidence. Can we know anything except that which occurs in our direct experience? And, given the unreliability of eyewitness accounts, can we even believe that?

www.economist.com...

Originally posted by 27jd
Well, here's one...

Robert McNamara was a lone wolf in the Gulf of Tonkin issue. One man does not make a conspiracy by the government.

Documents which have been available for decades in the LBJ Library show clearly that McNamara FAILED to inform Johnson that the U.S. naval task group commander in the Tonkin Gulf, Captain John J. Herrick, had changed his mind about the alleged North Vietnamese torpedo attack on U.S. warships he had reported earlier that day.

Furthermore, he had to testify as to his involvement. So how exactly is the entire government covering this up?

McNamara later testified that he had read the message after his return to the Pentagon that afternoon. But he did not immediately call Johnson to tell him that the whole premise of his decision at lunch to approve McNamara’s recommendation for retaliatory air strikes against North Vietnam was now highly questionable.

Lone Wolf McNamara

I think its time we redefined what a conspiracy is. Two or three people does not a conspiracy make in this day and age. Today's conspiracy consist of dozens, if not hundreds, of people conspiring to cover something up.

21 people are called a sleeper cell nowadays. 21 people is called a terrorist organization. The government is not a terrorist organization. If they were then who exactly runs this terrorist organization? Everyone seems to think the Navy Seals and all military folks are hero's. Guess what folks? They would have to be in on it. Who is going to be the first to claim that Private Smucka Telly is in on this grand conspiracy known as the United States Government Sleeper Cell?

When we say the government is involved in a conspiracy then we need to rethink what a conspiracy actually is.

If there is a grand conspiracy its not run by the government that's for sure. Conspiracies are done by the elites of this world. My representative is not going to be involved in a conspiracy for 20K a year compensation.

Last thought...

If the government is so inept as you guys claim then how exactly are they running all these conspiracies? Do they have a Department of Conspiracy Debunking Czar? If so, name names so we can ask questions to that person.

The government is the extreme...the people are the opposite extreme. The middle are the ones running all these conspiracies. People like the Koch Brothers who value money over people. They are the ones running conspiracies if they in fact exist.

reply to post by AeonStorm


Youre not paranoid. I believe there is a red list, especially dealing in gun threads, or Obama bashing, chemtrails, and leaked documents.

Agreed. It's as though we are considered unpatriotic because we don't eat up everything they tell us.

reply to post by LosLobos


I know of 3 conspiracy debunker czars on around here but wont name them and since I am a right wing Christian, I'm at the top of the list of a war against Conspiracy theorists.

Originally posted by LosLobos
Robert McNamara was a lone wolf in the Gulf of Tonkin issue. One man does not make a conspiracy by the government.

You said nothing about a minimum number of participants being involved in your request. You should be more specific. Here's a list of 'ten proven government conspiracies'.

The conspiracy of 1865 to assassinate U.S. President Abraham Lincoln and members of his cabinet.

Tuskegee Syphilis Study ongoing from 1932 to 1972 knowingly killed hundreds of low-income African American men. U.S. Public Health Service wanted to experiment with the effects of untreated syphilis. Low-income African American men were lured into study with promise of free health care. Instead they were intentionally lied to and given placebo treatments. Even when they could have easily been saved by penicillin they were left to die for the benefit of the syphilis study program. Tuskegee Syphilis Study Source

Human Radiation Experiments. 1944 to 1974. In 1995 the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments reported that over a 30-year period, the government sponsored, through several different agencies, thousands of human radiation experiments and several hundred intentional releases of radiation. To the question of whether similar abuses could occur again, particularly in the case of intentional releases, the committee gives “a qualified yes.” It notes that some agencies can still invoke national security considerations to waive consent requirements, that agencies are often responsible for their own oversight, and that environmental impact statements relating to classified projects are not available for public scrutiny.

The 1945 Operation Paperclip, the extraction of top Nazi scientists to the US. … the Nazi Intelligence leader Reinhard Gehlen met with the CIA director Allen Dulles. Dulles and Gehlen hit it off immediatly. Gehlen was a master spy for the Nazis and had infiltrated Russia with his vast Nazi Intelligence network. Dulles promised Gehlen that his Intelligence unit was safe in the CIA. As promised, Allen Dulles delivered the Nazi Intelligence unit to the CIA, which later opened many umbrella projects stemming from Nazi mad research. (MK-ULTRA / ARTICHOKE, OPERATION MIDNIGHT CLIMAX) Military Intelligence “cleansed” the files of Nazi references. By 1955, more than 760 German scientists had been granted citizenship in the U.S. and given prominent positions in the American scientific community. Many had been longtime members of the Nazi party and the Gestapo, had conducted experiments on humans at concentration camps, had used slave labor, and had committed other war crimes. -ca

MKULTRA is a CIA experiment where drugs were given to Americans without their knowledge or consent. This involved giving '___', marijuana, barbiturates, heroine, mescaline, alcohol and more to unsuspecting people. … started in 1950 to study mind control and behavior modification. In 1973 Richard Helms head of the CIA deliberately destroyed all the records. MKULTRA Source

Operation Mockingbird was a CIA project created to control the domestic and foreign media [beginning in the 1950s.] They bribed well-known writers and journalists to write … slanted propaganda. The goal was primarily to bribe writers to write about the dangers of communism and suppress any left wing political writing. In 1976 George H.W. Bush the new director of the CIA announced that this activity will stop but they would welcome the voluntary unpaid cooperation of writers. Operation Mockingbird Source

Project SHAD was created by the United States Department of Defense in 1962. They intentionally exposed our military personnel with biological and chemical agents on 46 different occasions. This was done without the military personnel knowledge or consent. They wanted to experiment on how soldiers can be exposed to dangerous chemicals and continue to fight. This testing was conducted from 1962-1973. The Department of Defense refused to admit SHAD existed until 1998. Project SHAD Source

Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a false flag conspiracy plan, proposed within the United States government in 1962. The plan called for CIA or other operatives to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Castro-led Cuba. One plan was to “develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington”. This operation is especially notable in that it included plans for hijackings and bombings followed by the use of phony evidence that would blame the terrorist acts on foreign governments. Operation Northwoods was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and signed by then-Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer, and sent to the Secretary of Defense.

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident is the name given to two separate incidents involving naval forces of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) and the United States in the waters of the Gulf of Tonkin. On August 4, 1964, the US government lied about war ships engaging North Vietnamese vessels in combat. In 2005, an official NSA declassified report stated. “[I]t is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night.” The Gulf of Tonkin Incident prompted the first large-scale involvement of U.S. armed forces in Southeast Asia.

The Watergate scandals 1972 to 1974 during the presidency of Richard Nixon resulted in the indictment of several of Nixon’s closest advisors and ultimately his resignation on August 9, 1974. The scandal revealed the existence of a White House dirty tricks squad, which was behind an orchestrated campaign of political sabotage, an enemies list, a “plumbers” unit to plug political leaks and a secret campaign slush fund associated with CRP, all with high-level administration involvement. It brought into the open the involvement of Attorney General John N. Mitchell in the dirty tricks, funds and cover-up, as well as key White House advisers, all of whom went to prison for these crimes, for sentences of one to four years.
xenophilius.wordpress.com...

Just because every member of the government isn't in on it, doesn't mean it's not a government conspiracy.

And I understand what you're saying, and it pretty much agrees with the rest of the message of the article. Just because there are government conspiracies carried out by a few individuals, doesn't mean the entire government is bad. But, we should never just blindly believe anything they say either.

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by AeonStorm

 

I agree with pretty much everything you have said, and with the next four or five posts i've just read on your thread Aeon...spot on assessments i reckon.

Conspiracy theorists, for all intensive purposes, are the enemy. The question I have is how far are the elite willing to go to protect themselves from all the non-believers and protect all their elite B.S.

The term 'Conspiracy theorists' is actively being engineered by the psych ops units in various government, intelligence and military circles, to be synonymous with 'UFO nut'.

That is...to cause the same negative emotion/reaction to be brought forth by the term alone.

It *is* a propaganda war...but *not* for Conspiracy theorists hearts and minds, but rather for the hearts and minds of the gullible and obedient majority...they realise it's a losing battle to challenge an experienced CT, as we have long since realised through months, sometimes years of hard, in depth and intensive research, across myriad but often tenuous spider web-like filaments of topic connections, that eventually show a portion of what the real systems are actually like.

Once you comprehend and recognise the methods of control, of coercion, and all the other elements so well known and utilised by tptb to keep their elite monopoly over the majority of us, you'd have a hard time going back to being a gullible, 'good serf' and believing whatever tptb tell you.

This is damage limitation, just as it was, and still largely is, with the UFO/ET subject.

We are going down the exact same ridicule, wry smile, eye roll, finger pointing route against 'Conspiracy Theorists' now.

Why? Why would this be a problem for the elites? Why wouldn't they just ignore it, shrug it off as inconsequential or unimportant?

Because folks, the obvious answer is that we Conspiracy theorists (i prefer 'truth digger', but hey) are a danger to their whole centuries long, insidious power grab and monopoly on truth and how much of the truth we get to know.

We are starting to have what many would term 'mainstream' or regular types of people wake up, and start to see what the world is really like, and they are starting to get involved in the 'real world ' by asking some difficult questions.

Donald Trump is one. The *well connected* doctor who is currently spilling the 9/11 OBL beans is another...more and more 'regular people'..some very wealthy and powerful in their own right are starting to ask....'difficult questions' of the elite...they *don't like this* for obvious reasons!

So while Conspiracy theorists *are* the enemy of obfuscation and elite lies and propaganda, we *are* the ally of the majority...and a lot of the majority are starting to wake up and realise this.

Hey Spikey,

I really like what you say about 'years of hard, in depth and intensive research, across myriad but often tenuous spider web-like filaments of topic connections' as I definitely fall into this category when it comes to CT's. I damn near went off the deep end (literally) trying to connect all the dots. I had to step back for quite sometime before I dove back in (to the shallow end).

I'm also happy, that at our end, the 'MSM' is beginning to have the EXACT same negative connotations as what the MSM intended the CT's to have! (Awesome)

I know that the MSM must step up it's propaganda against any voice that goes against the contrary, because of the increase of alternative media and individuals who voice their opposition, and I truly hope this is a win for critical thinkers and not part of something more insidious.

Peace & Respect,

AS