Mass Arrests, Tear Gas, Sound Weapons used Against West Illinois University Students

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Oh god. You just don't get it, do you?

Do you honestly expect that police can't do their job because these students weren't found guilty by a jury of their peers.

I would say 'good luck' to you again, but I think it's too late for that.

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Do you have evidence that the fires were not started on the lawns of people consenting? What does group size have to do with it? People have a right to assemble, and where is the video/photo evidence of people throwing bottles at other people?
No matter how you try to spin it, this was not a riot and did not require the use of riot police. The police had no right to compel the people to disperse leave their own properties.

edit on 3-5-2011 by PplVSNWO because: (no reason given)

GRoup size is a HUGE determining factor with regards to levels of force that can be applied. People have a right to assemble, but they dont have a right to block a public right of way (street) thye dont have a right to tresspass, vandalize, start fires in the street or throw beer bottles and Police and EMS.

It was a riot, and I say this with knowledge of the law, unliuke a lot of others in this thread.

Please show me where these people were on their own property.

reply to post by LosLobos


The gun control measure is linked into operation gunrunner and the death of a border officer. There is a thred on it here,I suggest you puruse that.. There is a lot of info from A to B to how they got to this point.

The way the bill is being spun, it looks like it will have republican support.

reply to post by RichardA


And, hopefully, WIU will take steps to prevent such occurences in the future.

This behavior is simply shameful.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


So when you are proven wrong, you spin it and start talking about the flow of movement. Seriously, either learn the law, or be quiet.. You have no idea what you are talking about, and your comparisons are based on ignorance of the very same subject.

The students dont own the neighborhood. They dont own the street.

They cant stop any person from being there. Intresting that you will rant and rave about how bad the police ae while at the very same time make a comment about people not being welcome in an area. So what you are saying is you are just as bad as you accuse the police of being.

ok..

Origin of the story: RTR.org

Someone in the nearby neighborhood must have complained. What is missing from this video is very important. If the cops came down and warned everyone, friendly nudge, the provokers of this event are the students themselves. Although everyone in the video has rights, the 'private' neighbors also have a right to peace and quiet. It looks like a private neighborhood.

Look at the size of the neighborhood, the piles of trash, and the size of the party. Also, one of the students starts a street fire, so he was just asking to be arrested.

Until we get more information about this event, I do not see how anyone can draw a conclusion.

This is quite disturbing news. I hope noone will get injured.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Oh god. You just don't get it, do you?

Do you honestly expect that police can't do their job because these students weren't found guilty by a jury of their peers.

I would say 'good luck' to you again, but I think it's too late for that.

He doesnt understand that in the US, Law enforcement is responsible for investigating the crimes, and submitting reports to the PA.

He doesnt grasp the concpet of 24-48holds pending felony charges.

He doesnt understand the law at all, or how the Government works... There is no amount of conversation that will change that with him.

To suggest that cops were in an area they should not have been is evidence enough to ignore anything else that comes from him.

Originally posted by Section31
Origin of the story: RTR.org

Someone in the nearby neighborhood must have complained. What is missing from this video is very important. If the cops came down and warned everyone, friendly nudge, the provokers of this event are the students themselves. Although everyone in the video has rights, the 'private' neighbors also have a right to peace and quiet. It looks like a private neighborhood.

Look at the size of the neighborhood, the piles of trash, and the size of the party. Also, one of the students starts a street fire, so he was just asking to be arrested.

Until we get more information about the party, I do not see how we can draw any specific conclusions.

There were no street fires. Everyone was on private property until the riot police came in. The party had been going on since about 10, but the mass amounts came at 12-1, by 6 when the riot police came it had diminished about 2,000 people.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Oh god. You just don't get it, do you?

Do you honestly expect that police can't do their job because these students weren't found guilty by a jury of their peers.

I would say 'good luck' to you again, but I think it's too late for that.

You honestly don't get it.

Arresting someone for suspicion of having committed a crime does not mean a crime occured.

It is up to a judge, and jury to decide if a crime has occured, not you.

If you as a law enforcement officer suspect you have sufficient evidence of a possible crime occuring you may choose to effect an arrest based on the circurmstances but that is not a indicator of guilt or a sign of guilt, but simply suspicion.

Later what ever evidence you gather in the way of witness testimony, phsyical evidence, statements by the defendent, and other forensics have to be presented in a court of law where the defendent if they so choose has the right to refute them with evidence, witness testimony and forensics of their own.

A jury of that defendents peers then decides if a crime actually occured or not.

This is how our system is supposed to work, and if you are telling me it doesn't then you clearly don't understand it or are actively working to subvert and destory it.

That makes you the criminal either way.

Good luck I fear the number of days you will be drawing a paycheck in this broken down system and nation are numbered.

Me I take care of myself, and I don't need a gun or a badge, or to harass and lie to innocent people, and get paid by the corrupt government to do it.

reply to post by Section31


Partygoers clash with local police Annual Wheeler Street Block Party turns violent

Apparently the agression started with beer bottles being thrown at EMS

Macomb, Ill. —


Saturday’s Wheeler Street Block Party left police officers bruised, hundreds of partygoers teary-eyed from pepper spray and resulted in dozens of arrests.

In the wake of the chaos, city officials are commending law enforcement for their work, while droves of students are questioning the lengths police went to in restoring order.

According to Macomb Police Chief Curt Barker, an estimated 3,000 individuals attended the event, which began to turn ugly around 6 p.m. Saturday.

It started with a small fire on the corner of Wheeler and Albert streets. Then a stop sign was dug up and thrown into the flames to loud, drunken cheers.

It was about that time, Barker says, that local officers decided the street party was over.

Barker said city officers, along with McDonough County Sheriff’s deputies, WIU officers and state police began walking Wheeler Street, asking the hoards of partygoers to get out of the street.

Barker said EMS paramedics were treating multiple victims of alcohol poisoning and setting up makeshift medical stations at the Wheeler and Albert intersection, as well as Wheeler and Charles streets.

“As they were doing that, they began receiving all kinds of beer bottles being thrown at them and they were overwhelmed,” Barker said. “That’s when they requested to bring in the mobile field force, which we had back in reserve.”

[

Originally posted by windowshade

Originally posted by Section31
Origin of the story: RTR.org

Someone in the nearby neighborhood must have complained. What is missing from this video is very important. If the cops came down and warned everyone, friendly nudge, the provokers of this event are the students themselves. Although everyone in the video has rights, the 'private' neighbors also have a right to peace and quiet. It looks like a private neighborhood.

Look at the size of the neighborhood, the piles of trash, and the size of the party. Also, one of the students starts a street fire, so he was just asking to be arrested.

Until we get more information about the party, I do not see how we can draw any specific conclusions.

There were no street fires. Everyone was on private property until the riot police came in. The party had been going on since about 10, but the mass amounts came at 12-1, by 6 when the riot police came it had diminished about 2,000 people.

Are we just making lies up now? Watch the videos that are posted, as they clearly show you are misinformed on this part.

They were in the street... There were fires... see above for the article with info.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


We can make an arrest... Its called Probable cause.

The Police made the arrests based on the Probable Cause that a crime occured. Theose people are either cited and released with a court date, or are place in jail until the post bail or are released.

The police enforce the law, the Courts ajudicate it.

Again, learn how the system works, or quit posting. You are doing nothing but confusing the issues, and you have no idea who it works. This is yet another answer on your part that completely deflects from your origional comments.

Take a hard look at these jack booted bastards because these will be the same thugs that you will be facing when the system goes down and the goon squads are sent against the American people.

I hope those suits are fire proof.

reply to post by Xcathdra


You don't understand what I understand as you seem very unable to understand anything with out an official web site or news paper source or code book to copy and paste anything of a consistent nature.

I understand the law just fine, in fact, good enough to recieve a code violation for minor misdomeanor infractions and to not only get it dismissed but to get the court to pay me the fine that they wanted to collect from me.

How do I do this, by understanding the difference between common law and the corporate codes, by not being a signatory to any of the social contracts that would bind me to accepting the codes, by understanding that the law allows for it's officers and henchmen to lie and trick citizens, and by being able to point out in a court of law, the nature and details of it's system in excurtiating detail.

I do this by representing myself, and I do this by understanding the exact legal definition of every word employed on the citation and the court and it's officers. and believe me the worst day of the week for a state's attorney is when some armed henchmen gives me a illegal code violation and now they have to deal with the consequences of that.

I am a free man, not part of the borg collective.

Thanks.

Originally posted by windowshade
There were no street fires. Everyone was on private property until the riot police came in. The party had been going on since about 10, but the mass amounts came at 12-1, by 6 when the riot police came it had diminished about 2,000 people.

Western Courier: Anarchy on Wheeler

The Macomb Police Department maintained order during the day and checked IDs in search of underage drinkers...

The block party went awry when partygoers created a disturbance around a stop sign located at the intersection of Wheeler and Albert streets.

"There was pretty much out of control burning of furniture and other miscellaneous items," said senior physical education major and Wheeler resident Michael Smiles. "And the task force formed a line and went after the people, I guess you could say. You would have thought it was a third world country."

Interesting. So, the fact that one of the students admitted to the fires was a complete sign that they never existed?



As a result of students burning furniture and other items, the police had no choice but to clear everyone off the street.

The task force formed a horizontal line at the east end of the road and moved westward to disperse the students. Beer bottles rained on top of the task force members.

Although the police were trying to clear people out peacefully, the students started to throw beer bottle at the officers.

Sounds to me like the students got out of control.

reply to post by pop_science


i dont understand why people just run around taping and no1 is looking for a hose?
-.-

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You must because it is irrational to walk into an area where you are not welcome and you simply wish to exert control for the sake of control.

I wouldn't lie to yourself about that, you get off on it.

Normally, I wouldn't mind letting you all drink yourself comatose. Society would be the better for it.

However, when you all start placing people in jeopardy who do -not- share your views or really appreciate your presence - you are then interfering with their rights, and likely breaking the law.

That's when it becomes 'my' job to get up in your business (things would have to be pretty bad, though, to call in the reserves).

The only intersection I see being blocked and the only street I see being blocked are by the police.

But that's not at all the full scope of reality, now is it?

Yes some property was destroyed as an angry reaction to police brutality. Had the police attempted a more community oriented effort, a sane, and sensible one, that likely would not have occured.

The destruction of property was occurring before the police even got involved.

The crowd was drunken, noisy and light hearted until the police showed up in Riot gear, there were no such acts occuring prior to police aggression.

I'm sure.

The police responded with excessive force, they did so with malicious intent and pre-planning, they conspired to do bodily damage to civilians, they are the lowest form of life that there is when they conspire to do such things.

How sheltered we are.

I'll share with you an experience while I was in South Korea.

The locals there like to have their little protests for college - it's like a cultural right of passage - you're not an adult unless you've been part of a protest/demonstration of some kind.

This was before North Korea sank a ship and started lobbing artillery shells over the border, mind you.

Demonstrations work this way in Korea: you sign up for a specific time 'slot' - a specific number of people, and a description of what you're doing. The demonstration is approved (usually) - and the police show up one-for-one with the registered number of protesters - in riot-gear.

The protest outside of our base was registered for 800 people. Only about 50 showed up. There were 800 police just sitting around and milling about as these protesters did their thing, tossed a paper airplane over the fence at us, and went home.

The police may as well have not even been there, as far as these protesters were concerned.

Here in America - ten police officers show up to a crowd of 300 people and it's suddenly police brutality and something we need to fight back against.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

We're people too, and will FLUCK YOU up in a heartbeat if you over step your duty of Protecting and Serving. Police have forgotten that they can get their # pushed in too! Police really don't want to get the millions of citizens of this country fired up...because they will lose, even with all the tech they have, they will lose. So don't drink that koolaid that you're above the law...and I don't mean this corrupt law you're batting for!

You are seriously confused, child.

To serve and protect whom?

Your little party group represents a 0.01% of the population causing problems for the other 99.9%. The problem with your position is that you think there are -millions- behind you. There aren't. The majority see you for the douchebags you are and decide to have no part of such insanity.

Thanks for playing.

reply to post by BlackOps719

Take a hard look at these jack booted bastards because these will be the same thugs that you will be facing when the system goes down and the goon squads are sent against the American people.

I hope those suits are fire proof.

You seriously misunderstand police officers and the military.

I'd never follow an order to go around and be the thought police or the gun-collector. Nor would many other people int he military or police. We like our guns, too - and can empathize with not wanting to be separated from them.

The problem is when people decide they can start getting destructive and violent.

It is a self-destructive behavior that threatens the entire system of peaceful government. When one group can do what they will because they started tearing things up - other groups will follow, and those groups will eventually meet along conflicting goals and ideals... and begin destroying each other.

Meanwhile - those who are peaceful simply get caught up in the mess. Farmers are forced to provide food under duress - local ideological groups seize power and 'secure' local resources for their own ambitions. The whole country falls apart.

This is why powerful groups like the various Militias have not been active in assassinations of political figures - despite their opposition to a number of government actions. It's not that they couldn't - they have huge amounts of influence within the military and governments of all levels. It's because they understand what would happen if they began acting purely on force.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Thats fine.. I dont care for anarchists, sovereign citizens, or people who open their mouths about a topic without firt having all of the facts. I also dont care for people who have no concept of what personal responsibility is, or those who dont have a espect for the property of others.

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
Anarchy is ALL about personal responsibility. Anarchy is about taking care of yourself and your community without a big bro central government ruining all the fun.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
The students freely made the choice to burn items, destroy citiy property, vandalize, throw beer bottles and EMS and Police.

I have not seen any evidence of violence - except after the riot police caused a riot. And hold on, these students were throwing EMS and Police? Now that is just ridiculous. Lets see some proof for that. (And please hurry, I am already getting dizzy from holding my breath)

These students freely made the choice to dsiregard police messages to leave the area.

The students freely made the choice to ingore those orders, and they freely made the choice to confront law enforcement.

Secondly, learn what anarchy is before you use it.

I did not misuse anarchy. You are the one that made an association between anarchism and a lack of personal responsibility, but I again would like to point out that an anarchist society could not function without personal responsibility.

Good job on the massive copy pasta and not qualifying it with any original input; I really appreciate the lack of effort. You even left in the definitions of anarchy when being used as a term for "general disorder", despite it being obvious we were talking about the Anarchist Philosophy. Bravo.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Anarchy -

1

a: absence of government b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government


2

a: absence or denial of any authority or established order b: absence of order : disorder


3

: anarchism


See anarchy defined for English-language learners »


See anarchy defined for kids »


Examples of ANARCHY
Anarchy reigned in the empire's remote provinces.
When the teacher was absent, there was anarchy in the classroom.
Its immigration policies in the last five years have become the envy of those in the West who see in all but the most restrictive laws the specter of terrorism and social anarchy. —Caroline Moorehead, New York Review of Books, 16 Nov. 2006

reply to post by Aim64C

Normally, I wouldn't mind letting you all drink yourself comatose. Society would be the better for it.

First of all I don't drink and second of all you don't 'let' me do anything. You have no authority over me.

However, when you all start placing people in jeopardy who do -not- share your views or really appreciate your presence - you are then interfering with their rights, and likely breaking the law.

Which is exactly what the police did when in a militant and premeditated fashion deputized well in advance neighboring law enforcement agencies from other jurisdictions and invited them to bring their riot gear to an annual party of college kids to perpetrate violence on them.

That's when it becomes 'my' job to get up in your business (things would have to be pretty bad, though, to call in the reserves).

John Wayne you couldn't get into my business if you had the CIA and the MOSSAD helping you!

But that's not at all the full scope of reality, now is it?

Not only were the police dressed in full riot gear stretched out and blocking the road I gaurantee you that they wouldn't have let a sick old lady trying to get to her medicine past them without clubbing her to the ground.

Get real man.

The destruction of property was occurring before the police even got involved.

You have no evidence of this occuring, and by the way, if I want to let guests trash my house, or trash it myself it's my business, and my right.

Are you really going to tell me that a Stop Sign is worth 100's of hours of police overtime from multiple police departments.

Good grief how many of you does it take to change a lightbulb.

In conclusion this is not South Korea and personally I think it's a mistake to take anyone from the Military into the Police Force, they are often unstable, prone to use excessive force, suffer from delayed stress syndrom and have had most of their individual humanity stripped and drilled out of them in a uniform process that tears them down to build them back up into an unthinking killing machine.

These weren't ten police officers, it wasn't South Korea, and no matter how you try to twist events, witnesses on site and the video evidence doesn't support the fabrications.

Thanks.