The Absolute Truth About The Tea Party!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

One question, what's exactly your definition of socialism and communism?
Because my definition of both comes from Marx ideas, not from the failed experience in the wrongly called "communist" countries.

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by bruji76

 

Capitalism is THE REASON WE CAN DIFFER...ARGUE...DRINK WINE FROM SPAIN.

The thinking person is a fan of regulated capitalism...this allows it to remain a capitalist society for a long time

When capitalism becomes unregulated (dog off leash), it stops becoming capitalism and quickly becomes a corporatism

in the mid 80s, the dog was let off the leash.

we reap what we sow

How so? What kind of regulations would stop capitalism from becoming corporatism? Corporations only exist because of the state, in a free market corporations as we know them today would not exist, so IMHO state imposed regulations would only help to advance corporatism and not stop it.

Even if state didn't exist, corporation still would arise, via oligarchic mafias. It doesn't matter what you do, the corporations are a natural consequence of capitalism.

You're wrong. Corporations are not free-market institutions, corporations only exist though the state if the state never got involved corporations would never arise. Oligarchic mafias aren't a problem simply because America has laws, just because we switch to free market capitalism doesn't mean we won't have laws that protect citizens.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by bruji76

 

Never said I had the solutions, but I am just trying to enlightening you to some issues I have with your perceptions of how things should work (and you are more then entitled to have your opinion, just trying to have a friendly discussion)

I believe in a smaller government, limited terms, more accountability for those in government. I believe in less government intervention with individuals, and yes, I understand that for some people that means they are going to have to live some crappy lives due to dealing with the consequences of their decisions.

Smaller or bigger government, it doesn't really matter, still the power will be in corporations under a capitalist system.

As I read your posts, I picture that you want more government, more regulation - and more social programs?

edit on 23-4-2011 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

Nope. I think the ideal should be direct democracy, no state and no corporations . People sharing the productive resources in cooperation rather than competition. Productive resources should be public rather than private.

Sorry, this is not going to happen. Karl Marx did say the State would eventually whither away, but where is there a society that is run like this where the State whithered away leaving everything run and owned by the Proletariat? Example in the real world please.

Only if you give me a real world example of capitalism actually working without social unfairness.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


something to do

well not so much i think i'll stick with the ism such as capitalism where i can make enough money to escape the reeducation and death camps of those other isms.

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by bruji76

 

Capitalism is THE REASON WE CAN DIFFER...ARGUE...DRINK WINE FROM SPAIN.

The thinking person is a fan of regulated capitalism...this allows it to remain a capitalist society for a long time

When capitalism becomes unregulated (dog off leash), it stops becoming capitalism and quickly becomes a corporatism

in the mid 80s, the dog was let off the leash.

we reap what we sow

How so? What kind of regulations would stop capitalism from becoming corporatism? Corporations only exist because of the state, in a free market corporations as we know them today would not exist, so IMHO state imposed regulations would only help to advance corporatism and not stop it.

Even if state didn't exist, corporation still would arise, via oligarchic mafias. It doesn't matter what you do, the corporations are a natural consequence of capitalism.

You're wrong. Corporations are not free-market institutions, corporations only exist though the state if the state never got involved corporations would never arise. Oligarchic mafias aren't a problem simply because America has laws, just because we switch to free market capitalism doesn't mean we won't have laws that protect citizens.

Let's say you have a completely non corrupt government under capitalism.
How do you enforce laws against corporations if mafias grow bigger and more powerful than government itself?

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by DougWood3

 

Whether a corporation pays taxes, and whether YOU should pay taxes, really depends on what the damn taxes are used for.

Corporations are not mindless entities. A corporation is a collection of shareholders and investors whose specific goal is "to make money". What the taxes are used for is another matter entirely, don't side track the issue.

Is this what we are destined to argue about? Taxes?

The topic is about the tea-party, is it not? A party founded because of their dislike of taxation? It's directly and indirectly "on topic". Again, you're trying to divert the topic.

I would bet that one person in ten here cannot tell me anything at all about where their tax money goes...BUT, by GOD you should pay it to be a good American.

I would bet that YOU don't know where your tax dollars go, because if you did, you'd be singing a different tune. A huge chunk of it goes to interest on the debt and military spending. Which is funny, because we borrow to increase our military spending. Which causes more debt. Rinse, repeat.

You know where I want my tax dollars going? NASA and health care. I wouldn't spend a dime on our military. Let the rich pay for the protection they take for granted if they're afraid of war. I have nothing to lose compared to them. Our country affords them the safety to enjoy their wealth. Well, pay for it. I sure as hell don't want to.

Somehow, I get the feeling that we Americans are getting what we deserve. We are stupid, and we deserve what stupid gets.

I completely agree.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

something to do

well not so much i think i'll stick with the ism such as capitalism where i can make enough money to escape the reeducation and death camps of those other isms.

Good luck, and I really mean it, because capitalism won't offer you any safety net if you happen to fall in disgrace. So you will really need to get very lucky indeed.

reply to post by bruji76


thats the beauty of capitalism you rise and fall on your own.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by bruji76

 

thats the beauty of capitalism you rise and fall on your own.

Problem is that system works in a way every time is more and more difficult to succeed, and more and more easy to get exploited by corporations, who are not interested in fair competition but in getting new slaves.
Also it would help if corporations like banks were left alone to fail instead of being helped by middle class taxes via corrupt governments.

reply to post by bruji76


nothing worth having is ever easy the more difficult the task the sweeter the reward..

exploited by the corporations i think you have that wrong exploited by the people with their hands out wanting what they didnt earn.

Originally posted by bruji76
Let's say you have a completely non corrupt government under capitalism.
How do you enforce laws against corporations if mafias grow bigger and more powerful than government itself?

It's impossible to have a completely un-corrupt government, that's one of the main reasons why I like free market capitalism, it gives the government no control. I'm not really understanding your last question though. Do you mean a mafia type state like in Russia?

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by bruji76
reply to post by neo96

 

I am still waiting for you to explain how is it?
Who does get rich in capitalist society?
Creative people or lucky manipulative coiners?

Hey, Starbucks on every corner, and they donate to "sustainable" causes.

WTF? I think you missed completely my point.

Did I? Starbucks had a creative answer to the needs of a busy society who had lots of people in the workforce and have busy lives running around doing all sorts of things and needed coffee on the run. Are you mad because the people who froth up the milk don't make 80 dollars an hour? My point is that Starbucks is a creative venture and lot's of people have jobs because of it, because of the marketplace. You do know that in the Communist system, there is still an Elite that gets wealthy through the labor of the proletariat. Did you really think the elders of the Politburo didn't get a payoff? Look how Obama does things. He does it the way the Politburo did it. Giving payoffs and jobs to his friends. It's who you know isn't it! I was listening to the radio one day, and a guy called in saying that he does IT for the govt, and that the Obama admin hired a bunch of new IT people to do new jobs, instead of giving these jobs to those who had seniority. This means Team Obama gave all the newly created jobs to their friends and not to people who were already there who had the technical capabilities and experience.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by bruji76

 

nothing worth having is ever easy the more difficult the task the sweeter the reward..

exploited by the corporations i think you have that wrong exploited by the people with their hands out wanting what they didnt earn.

Actually that would be banks. Most of your taxes go to pay bonuses to bank CEOs rather than helping poor people.

reply to post by bruji76


2.5 trillion dollars have went to entitlement programs this year so please.

keep up the work pushing communism,socialism.and marxsim tho..

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by bruji76
reply to post by neo96

 

I am still waiting for you to explain how is it?
Who does get rich in capitalist society?
Creative people or lucky manipulative coiners?

Hey, Starbucks on every corner, and they donate to "sustainable" causes.

WTF? I think you missed completely my point.

Did I? Starbucks had a creative answer to the needs of a busy society who had lots of people in the workforce and have busy lives running around doing all sorts of things and needed coffee on the run. Are you mad because the people who froth up the milk don't make 80 dollars an hour? My point is that Starbucks is a creative venture and lot's of people have jobs because of it, because of the marketplace. You do know that in the Communist system, there is still an Elite that gets wealthy through the labor of the proletariat. Did you really think the elders of the Politburo didn't get a payoff? Look how Obama does things. He does it the way the Politburo did it. Giving payoffs and jobs to his friends. It's who you know isn't it! I was listening to the radio one day, and a guy called in saying that he does IT for the govt, and that the Obama admin hired a bunch of new IT people to do new jobs, instead of giving these jobs to those who had seniority. This means Team Obama gave all the newly created jobs to their friends and not to people who were already there who had the technical capabilities and experience.

edit on 23-4-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

Real communism has not elites, countries who failed to became really socialist did. And please Obama could be anything you want, but thinking he is a socialist/comunist it's the most bizarre idea I ever heard. Obama is 100% pro-capitalist, at service of big corporations, like most of politicians those days, anyways.

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by bruji76

 

nothing worth having is ever easy the more difficult the task the sweeter the reward..

exploited by the corporations i think you have that wrong exploited by the people with their hands out wanting what they didnt earn.

Actually that would be banks. Most of your taxes go to pay bonuses to bank CEOs rather than helping poor people.

I agree with you here, a lot of the rich today make their money through government contracts, subsidies, bailouts, favorable regulations, restrictions on competition, and government debt financed spending, these people should not only be taxed, but also thrown in prison.

MY ENEMY WHO IS THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND! I do not agree with some of the Tea Party Agendas and for the most part don't want to have anything to do with any of the parties but of the Parties, the Tea Party Expresses my loathing of the Federalist Globalists. You all can brainwash yourself and woo yourselves to believe what you like; me? i vote NONE OF THE ABOVE!

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by bruji76

 

2.5 trillion dollars have went to entitlement programs this year so please.

keep up the work pushing communism,socialism.and marxsim tho..

edit on 23-4-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

And how much went to save banks in 2007?
And even on these "entitlement programs", how much of this money is actually received by poor people and how much is kept by banks like JPMorgan in exchange for "managing" the food stamps system, for example?

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by bruji76

 

nothing worth having is ever easy the more difficult the task the sweeter the reward..

exploited by the corporations i think you have that wrong exploited by the people with their hands out wanting what they didnt earn.

Actually that would be banks. Most of your taxes go to pay bonuses to bank CEOs rather than helping poor people.

I agree with you here, a lot of the rich today make their money through government contracts, subsidies, bailouts, favorable regulations, restrictions on competition, and government debt financed spending, these people should not only be taxed, but also thrown in prison.

Nice to see we can at least agree on this. :-D

reply to post by DougWood3

Like I pointed in a previous post, i have been involved/created corporations.
And, I should point out, corporations can be created for reasons other than making money for shareholders.

In fact, I can create a corporation to educate the ignorant.

The point that I tried to make, and apparently failed, is this.

Corporations are NOT the enemy. Stupid is...Uneducated is...worthless is....

and I am happy that you agree with me on the stupid part.

Cheers.