The Absolute Truth About The Tea Party!

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by bruji76

 

Yes, and I will agree with you there. Corporations have taken over the government, but please don't call that capitalism. The elite have been putting their finger in the pie for centuries - this current crop of economic issues is just them taking another step in their attempt to gain total control like when they had the divine right of kings. When people rose up and threw down monarchies / church rule it put a kink in their fun.

The thing is how do corporations get created? They are created by the unrestricted accumulation of wealth. But that's the very root of capitalism. Free market capitalism allows free accumulation of wealth, and consequent power. So capitalism naturally leads for corporations to arise and take control of government. See the problem?

reply to post by Battleline


So, in other words, you're incapable of backing up what you say with FACTS. Just what I thought.

Originally posted by Shadowfoot
reply to post by beezzer

 

Did you even watch the videos through? Sounds like all your doing is making a sophomoric stand on a shaky principle thinking you are being attacked. Please watch the videos and let us know what you think. I am sure that is all the OP is asking for. I shouldn't of been inflammatory for that I apologize. The proof is in the video pudding above.

Like members of the Tea Party don't know what they are about but you do? LOL this is really funny.

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by cushycrux

 

lolololol...

like the tea party are all billionaires...

these videos are not truthful. stop spreading lies.

No, tea party are not ALL billionaires, tea party are mindless sheep mislead by millonaires to follow interests that go against themselves. See the difference.

im in the tea party. i'm not following anyone. No millionaire pays me to show up at rallies. No millionaire told me to be a part of it. I know what the tea party stands for and I've made a logical, well thought out decision to stand for it because I believe in the core prinicpals of the constitution.

sure there may be sheep. but there are sheep on both sides.

reply to post by bruji76


Never said I had the solutions, but I am just trying to enlightening you to some issues I have with your perceptions of how things should work (and you are more then entitled to have your opinion, just trying to have a friendly discussion)

I believe in a smaller government, limited terms, more accountability for those in government. I believe in less government intervention with individuals, and yes, I understand that for some people that means they are going to have to live some crappy lives due to dealing with the consequences of their decisions.


As I read your posts, I picture that you want more government, more regulation - and more social programs?

reply to post by bruji76

I have "had" a corporation, that is, I have created them with others. Corporations aren't necessarily bad...no worse than people in general.
In fact, I can say that I did not ask for, and don't necessarily agree with all rulings that pertain to the "rights" of corporations.

What needs to be understood is this. It is not about corporations. It is not about capitalism. It IS about POWER, and ABSOLUTE POWER.

There is a huge difference. If you can buy judges off, if you have the power to get judges elected? You are corrupt bastard, whether you operate as a corporation, a drug dealer, or a politician...it doesn't matter.

Oh, and the judge should rot in hell too.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by bruji76

 

Never said I had the solutions, but I am just trying to enlightening you to some issues I have with your perceptions of how things should work (and you are more then entitled to have your opinion, just trying to have a friendly discussion)

I believe in a smaller government, limited terms, more accountability for those in government. I believe in less government intervention with individuals, and yes, I understand that for some people that means they are going to have to live some crappy lives due to dealing with the consequences of their decisions.

Smaller or bigger government, it doesn't really matter, still the power will be in corporations under a capitalist system.

As I read your posts, I picture that you want more government, more regulation - and more social programs?

edit on 23-4-2011 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

Nope. I think the ideal should be direct democracy, no state and no corporations . People sharing the productive resources in cooperation rather than competition. Productive resources should be public rather than private.

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by DougWood3

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Rich people earn more than 80% of this nations wealth, they pay 60% in taxes likewise.

Have a reputable citation for that, because I'm pretty sure you're lucky if they pay 30%? You don't think the rich use every loophole in the book to avoid paying taxes? They have the money to hire teams of accountants to hide, exploit and abuse every loophole to avoid paying taxes.

For instance, the entire company of G.E (made 14 billion in profits last year) paid NOTHING in taxes last year. Yes, you heard me. NOTHING.

And i'm not an accountant (nor have I ever played one on t.v.) but G.E. pays wages to its workers and they pay taxes.

You're suggesting that companies shouldn't pay taxes because their employees pay income tax? You suggest that it's OK that the shareholders of the company pay absolutely no taxes on their $14 billion dollar windfall? Wow. Just wow. You guys will find a way to justify anything.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by bruji76

 

Capitalism is THE REASON WE CAN DIFFER...ARGUE...DRINK WINE FROM SPAIN.

The thinking person is a fan of regulated capitalism...this allows it to remain a capitalist society for a long time

When capitalism becomes unregulated (dog off leash), it stops becoming capitalism and quickly becomes a corporatism

in the mid 80s, the dog was let off the leash.

we reap what we sow

How so? What kind of regulations would stop capitalism from becoming corporatism? Corporations only exist because of the state, in a free market corporations as we know them today would not exist, so IMHO state imposed regulations would only help to advance corporatism and not stop it.

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by bruji76

 

To be honest, there hasn't been true capitalism in quite a long time.

In a true market, free of corruption at the higher offices of government - the market would regulate itself (with safeguards put in place)

Free markets are destroyed by capitalism itself via accumulation of wealth that leads to accumulation of power, and consequent abuse of power. Absolute free market is a chimera.

edit on 23-4-2011 by bruji76 because: (no reason given)

So I guess that means you agree with Obama that someone like he should have the right to specify what is "enough" wealth to accumulate.

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by bruji76

 

I have "had" a corporation, that is, I have created them with others. Corporations aren't necessarily bad...no worse than people in general.
In fact, I can say that I did not ask for, and don't necessarily agree with all rulings that pertain to the "rights" of corporations.

What needs to be understood is this. It is not about corporations. It is not about capitalism. It IS about POWER, and ABSOLUTE POWER.

There is a huge difference. If you can buy judges off, if you have the power to get judges elected? You are corrupt bastard, whether you operate as a corporation, a drug dealer, or a politician...it doesn't matter.

Oh, and the judge should rot in hell too.

Indeed, the absolute power is the power of big oligarchic corporations. A small corporation has nothing to do here an example. The problem is about corporations that get bigger and bigger and more and more powerful without limits.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by bruji76

 

To be honest, there hasn't been true capitalism in quite a long time.

In a true market, free of corruption at the higher offices of government - the market would regulate itself (with safeguards put in place)

Free markets are destroyed by capitalism itself via accumulation of wealth that leads to accumulation of power, and consequent abuse of power. Absolute free market is a chimera.

edit on 23-4-2011 by bruji76 because: (no reason given)

So I guess that means you agree with Obama that someone like he should have the right to specify what is "enough" wealth to accumulate.

No, Obama is just another sock puppet of capitalism, a complete demagogue. He only wants to restrict wealth of middle class, but not wealth of corporations. Just a red herring for left wing people to get misguided.

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by bruji76

 

Capitalism is THE REASON WE CAN DIFFER...ARGUE...DRINK WINE FROM SPAIN.

The thinking person is a fan of regulated capitalism...this allows it to remain a capitalist society for a long time

When capitalism becomes unregulated (dog off leash), it stops becoming capitalism and quickly becomes a corporatism

in the mid 80s, the dog was let off the leash.

we reap what we sow

How so? What kind of regulations would stop capitalism from becoming corporatism? Corporations only exist because of the state, in a free market corporations as we know them today would not exist, so IMHO state imposed regulations would only help to advance corporatism and not stop it.

Even if state didn't exist, corporation still would arise, via oligarchic mafias. It doesn't matter what you do, the corporations are a natural consequence of capitalism.

reply to post by DougWood3

Whether a corporation pays taxes, and whether YOU should pay taxes, really depends on what the damn taxes are used for.
Is this what we are destined to argue about? Taxes?

I would bet that one person in ten here cannot tell me anything at all about where their tax money goes...BUT, by GOD you should pay it to be a good American.

Somehow, I get the feeling that we Americans are getting what we deserve. We are stupid, and we deserve what stupid gets.

reply to post by bruji76


Guess I am just simply going to have to disagree with you....I do not believe in sharing / division of the wealth so to speak. There are too many individuals who are willing to rest while watching others sweat and toil. I will go so far as to say that even if we all were put in the same social / economic standing you will have a significant portion that are simply willing to do what I said, sit back and let others do the work for them.

Yours is a nice ideal, but simply not practical in society (or for individuals like me)

Originally posted by bruji76
reply to post by neo96

 

I am still waiting for you to explain how is it?
Who does get rich in capitalist society?
Creative people or lucky manipulative coiners?

Hey, Starbucks on every corner, and they donate to "sustainable" causes.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by bruji76

 

Guess I am just simply going to have to disagree with you....I do not believe in sharing / division of the wealth so to speak. There are too many individuals who are willing to rest while watching others sweat and toil. I will go so far as to say that even if we all were put in the same social / economic standing you will have a significant portion that are simply willing to do what I said, sit back and let others do the work for them.

Yours is a nice ideal, but simply not practical in society (or for individuals like me)

I think that's very much a cultural/ educational problem. People should be encouraged to work to feel worthy. Those who are not productive in a society like the one I describe would be bad conceited, so social pressure would make them adapt to work.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by bruji76
reply to post by neo96

 

I am still waiting for you to explain how is it?
Who does get rich in capitalist society?
Creative people or lucky manipulative coiners?

Hey, Starbucks on every corner, and they donate to "sustainable" causes.

WTF? I think you missed completely my point.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

you must have mistaken me for someone who cares to listen to anything you have to say

So why do you reply to my posts then

identify crisis eh theres no such thing as a moderate capitalist either you are or your not your a socialist and yet center of the political spectrum

okayyyyyyyyyyyyy.

communism--socialism--capitalism

And there are "flavors" of each. Its not difficult to understand if your willing to understand!

Originally posted by bruji76

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by bruji76

 

Never said I had the solutions, but I am just trying to enlightening you to some issues I have with your perceptions of how things should work (and you are more then entitled to have your opinion, just trying to have a friendly discussion)

I believe in a smaller government, limited terms, more accountability for those in government. I believe in less government intervention with individuals, and yes, I understand that for some people that means they are going to have to live some crappy lives due to dealing with the consequences of their decisions.

Smaller or bigger government, it doesn't really matter, still the power will be in corporations under a capitalist system.

As I read your posts, I picture that you want more government, more regulation - and more social programs?

edit on 23-4-2011 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

Nope. I think the ideal should be direct democracy, no state and no corporations . People sharing the productive resources in cooperation rather than competition. Productive resources should be public rather than private.

Sorry, this is not going to happen. Karl Marx did say the State would eventually whither away, but where is there a society that is run like this where the State whithered away leaving everything run and owned by the Proletariat? Example in the real world please.