Suicide Pact: Minnesota Teens Haylee Fentress and Paige Moravetz Commit Suicide at Slumber Party

*************************** Mod Warning *******************************

The Topic of this thread is the tragedy of the two teens. There is the tragedy, the social implications, the education system, religion, or whatever other spins you would like to discuss, but the personal attacks and trolling stop now, or the thread will be closed.

reply to post by FeraVerto


I went to the link provided and found this,

and had complained to her family that she felt ostracized and bullied

and that is the key word.

Bullied.

It is allowed and encouraged to happen in school and at work.

I've been bullied both as a child and an adult and it's worse than a death by a thousand cuts.

Where were the nuns when a ring of girls dance around me at St. Gerald Majella School in Kirkwood Missouri singing, ha ha XXX is the only one that doesn't have a mother.

I was nine and my mother had died two weeks ago leaving me an orphan.

I also spent ten years under a director and her managers that managed their people by bullying.

It's the story of children ganging up on someone, picking on them day in and day out and being smart enough not to get caught and when the picked on kid retaliates, they're "caught in the act" and branded as the trouble maker because they weren't as "swift" or people smart to not get caught.

My heart goes out to the girls families.

Hopefully these two souls are now in a better place.

Now, taking this one step further, all the school and work place shootings..................were these poor unfortunate souls bullied?

I don't excuse or condone any violent behavior towards another, but sometimes what goes around comes around.

There's a whole new discussion, bullying.

Whatever happened to the golden rule, "Do unto others exactly as you would have them do unto you?"

One thing that is a shame about these girls killing themselves

Bullied teens turn out to often be some of the most well adjusted and interesting people later on in life. They don't have the superficial spoiled hyper-inflated ego that the pop kids have and tend to accomplish alot both in business life and social life after the terrible teens.

So ya, when a bullied kid does him/herself in, it really is a loss on something that was forming quite nicely into an asset

So, I will say it...it may not be politically correct, but its high time someone does.
bullied teens...if your going to end it all, if the bullies are just too damn vicious and you are most definately going to end it...you tried everything, nobody is hearing you, you got all the pearls of wisdom from the elders and disregarded them and your mind is made up...

take those effin bullys with you and do the world a favor...they will just move on to another once your gone...leave a final example of the fate of bullys with your end.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

I've been bullied both as a child and an adult and it's worse than a death by a thousand cuts.

I think you just proved to me anyhow my own point
bullied kids turn out to be the most interesting people when they get older.

hense why you have been on my friends list for a considerable time

bullied at work? Well, besides the pecking order of manager to employee...you mean like a collegue is picking on you?

Hey to all of you who have no idea of what's going on here, please have some respect..

There's more that 15 students in that area under "suicide watch"... Apparently they all made a pact that if one of them commits suicide, they all will.

They are not the first ones to do this and they probably won't be the last ones..

Tragic for sure...

Wheres the almighty loving god now?

Seems clear to me that nobody cares about what we do in our lives, in the super natural sense.

I do not remember the time before i was born, So I must assume that no matter how crappy life can get, including killing yourself, it does not really even matter in the end, because I promise you, you will die, and life will start again in a new body case with a new brain.

Seems clear to me that any omnipresent being [god] that people like to "believe" in, is indeed meaningless. I do not question why cats lick themselves, or why ants build colonies to survive, or why humans kill other humans, I just accept it as required behavior to survive, and god has nothing to do with any of that.

Believing in god is just a required behavior for many of us to survive, and for others like me, its not.

Do you think in 10,000 years, people will still be worshiping gods? And do you think it will be the same as today?

If your answer is no like mine, then that makes all this just one whole big waste of time and effort by good people trying to do good, in the end it makes the person doing it feel a bit better about themselves, that is all. God is just entertainment for some.

reply to post by SaturnFX


No it was the Director that always had to have a whipping boy, always someone that had to be on the poop end of the stick but this no longer now affects me as my job was outsouced to "Team India"

Any who, the way my company worked was the bullying was done from the top down, hence the expression the brown stuff rolls down hill.

Those that wanted to remain off the Director's whipping boy's list became snitches, or "kept out of range", they watched everyone else and reported any "infractions". Smart when you think about it, it's what David Icke calls how the few control the many.

Bullying, our director and manager picked picked picked on every single thing I did and I made fewer mistakes than her or most of the other workers.

And the more perfect I became, (because I checked every single thing I completed twice) the madder they became and the harder they tried to find "a error".

I found working with my clients a breeze, they really liked me and my work, it was the Director who was so high up and in with the good old boys that one could not complain to HR. HR would have come back with "work it out yourselves" and that would have made life impossible.

I still nightmare about that place that is how bad it was.

Some good resources for those that wish to explore this dark avenue I am no longer a part of (Big smile, love not having to deal with any more psychopaths) I highly recommend these four books;

Bully In Sight by Tim Field
Dealing With People You Can't Stand by Dr. Rick Brinkman & Dr. Rick Kirschner
Mobbing Emotional Abuse In The American Workplace by noa Davenport, Ph.D., Ruth Distler Schwartz and Gail Pursell Elliott
The Bully At Work by Gary Namie, Ph.D and Ruth Namie, Ph.D.

A really good over view site is here and it's one of the best sites on this subject: www.bullyonline.org...

Now, some signs of bullying:

Watch seating placement in a meeting or at a lunch, the one being bullied, on the lowest end of the totem pole is the one ostracized. With women, it's done on a very subtle level. People file in and sit as far away from that person as possible, because they don't want to show their loyality and mental compliance to TPTB.

Definition of Workplace Bullying
Workplace Bullying is repeated, health-harming mistreatment of one or more persons (the targets) by one or more perpetrators that takes one or more of the following forms:

■Verbal abuse
■Offensive conduct/behaviors (including nonverbal) which are threatening, humiliating, or intimidating
■Work interference — sabotage — which prevents work from getting done
Workplace Bullying...


Is driven by perpetrators' need to control the targeted individual(s).
Is initiated by bullies who choose their targets, timing, location, and methods.
Escalates to involve others who side with the bully, either voluntarily through coercion.
Undermines legitimate business interests when bullies' personal agendas take precedence over work itself.
Is akin to domestic violence at work, where the abuser is on the payroll.


Personally, I've had ideas I've given at meetings only to be told, "Oh that wouldn't couldn't work, blah blah blah" only to hear the manager or one of her favorites bring up the exact same idea a month or two later and have it put into effect with naturally no credit to the original creator of that idea (me).

Corporate bullying is where the employer abuses employees with impunity knowing that the law is weak and jobs are scarce, eg:

•coercing employees to work 60/70/80 weeks on a regular basis then making life hell for (or dismissing) anyone who objects
•dismissing anyone who looks like having a stress breakdown as it's cheaper (in the UK) to pay the costs of unfair dismissal at Employment Tribunal (eg £50K maximum, but awards are usually paltry) than risk facing a personal injury claim for stress breakdown (eg £175K as in the John Walker case)
•introduces "absence management" to deny employees annual or sick leave to which they are genuinely entitled
•regularly snoops and spies on employees, eg by listening in to telephone conversations, using the mystery shopper, contacting customers behind employees backs and asking leading questions, conducting covert video surveillance (perhaps by fellow employees), sending personnel officers or private investigators to an employee's home to interrogate the employees whilst on sick leave, threatening employees with interrogation the moment they return from sick leave, etc.
•deems any employee suffering from stress as weak and inadequate whilst aggressively ignoring and denying the cause of stress (bad management and bullying)
•"encourages" employees (with promises of promotion and/or threats of disciplinary action) to fabricate complaints about their colleagues
•employees are "encouraged" to give up full-time permanent positions in favour of short-term contracts; anyone who resists has their life made hell

What is bullying?

People who are bullied find that they are:

•constantly criticised and subjected to destructive criticism (often euphemistically called constructive criticism, which is an oxymoron) - explanations and proof of achievement are ridiculed, overruled, dismissed or ignored
•forever subject to nit-picking and trivial fault-finding (the triviality is the giveaway)
•undermined, especially in front of others; false concerns are raised, or doubts are expressed over a person's performance or standard of work - however, the doubts lack substantive and quantifiable evidence, for they are only the bully's unreliable opinion and are for control, not performance enhancement
•overruled, ignored, sidelined, marginalised, ostracised
•isolated and excluded from what's happening (this makes people more vulnerable and easier to control and subjugate)
•singled out and treated differently (for example everyone else can have long lunch breaks but if they are one minute late it's a disciplinary offence)
•belittled, degraded, demeaned, ridiculed, patronised, subject to disparaging remarks
•regularly the target of offensive language, personal remarks, or inappropriate bad language
•the target of unwanted sexual behaviour
•threatened, shouted at and humiliated, especially in front of others
•taunted and teased where the intention is to embarrass and humiliate
•set unrealistic goals and deadlines which are unachievable or which are changed without notice or reason or whenever they get near achieving them
•denied information or knowledge necessary for undertaking work and achieving objectives
•starved of resources, sometimes whilst others often receive more than they need
•denied support by their manager and thus find themselves working in a management vacuum
•either overloaded with work (this keeps people busy [with no time to tackle bullying] and makes it harder to achieve targets) or have all their work taken away (which is sometimes replaced with inappropriate menial jobs, eg photocopying, filing, making coffee)
•have their responsibility increased but their authority removed
•have their work plagiarised, stolen and copied - the bully then presents their target's work (eg to senior management) as their own
•are given the silent treatment: the bully refuses to communicate and avoids eye contact (always an indicator of an abusive relationship); often instructions are received only via email, memos, or a succession of yellow stickies or post-it notes
•subject to excessive monitoring, supervision, micro-management, recording, snooping etc
•the subject of written complaints by other members of staff (most of whom have been coerced into fabricating allegations - the complaints are trivial, often bizarre ["He looked at me in a funny way"] and often bear striking similarity to each other, suggesting a common origin)
•forced to work long hours, often without remuneration and under threat of dismissal
•find requests for leave have unacceptable and unnecessary conditions attached, sometimes overturning previous approval. especially if the person has taken action to address bullying in the meantime
•denied annual leave, sickness leave, or - especially - compassionate leave
•when on leave, are harassed by calls at home or on holiday, often at unsocial hours
•receive unpleasant or threatening calls or are harassed with intimidating memos, notes or emails with no verbal communication, immediately prior to weekends and holidays (eg 4pm Friday or Christmas Eve - often these are hand-delivered)
•do not have a clear job description, or have one that is exceedingly long or vague; the bully often deliberately makes the person's role unclear
•are invited to "informal" meetings which turn out to be disciplinary hearings
•are denied representation at meetings, often under threat of further disciplinary action; sometimes the bully abuses their position of power to exclude any representative who is competent to deal with bullying
•encouraged to feel guilty, and to believe they're always the one at fault
•subjected to unwarranted and unjustified verbal or written warnings
•facing unjustified disciplinary action on trivial or specious or false charges
•facing dismissal on fabricated charges or flimsy excuses, often using a trivial incident from months or years previously
•coerced into reluctant resignation, enforced redundancy, early or ill-health retirement
•denial of the right to earn your livelihood including preventing you getting another job, usually with a bad or misleading reference
A favourite tactic of bullies which helps them evade detection is to undertake a "reorganisation" at regular intervals. This has several advantages:

•anyone whose face doesn't fit can be organised out through downsizing (redundancy) or transfer
•ditto anyone who challenges the reorganisation
•ditto, their job can be "regraded" or "redefined" to the person's disadvantage
•each reorganisation is a smokescreen for the bully's dysfunctional behaviour - everyone is so busy coping with the reorganisation (chaos) that the bully's behaviour goes unnoticed
•the bully can always claim to be reorganising in the name of "efficiency" and therefore be perceived by those above as a strong manager


Source and again a very good site: www.bullyonline.org...

In keeping "on topic" below is school bullying which is what those two suicides probably were put through.

Another good site for school bullying and this site states it begins in Preschool..........I know my grand daughter experienced it in first grade when she was told not to talk to "Mary" because Mary was the second ugliest looking girl in the classroom and overweight........my grand daugher bucked the main bully before changing schools and talked to Mary, and thus also, like Mary became bullied because she did not comply with the "group mentality" and the head bully who instigated this.

(See movie, "Mean Girls" shows just the tip of the iceberg).

This site: raisingchildren.net.au... gets into school bullying by the following topics.

What is bullying?
How to spot signs of bullying
Talking to your child about bullying
Tips for talking about bullying
What is bullying?

On the surface, it’s like teasing. Most of us know how that feels. But sometimes kids tease other kids over and over again. Or they might tease because they really want to hurt somebody’s feelings, or make sure that somebody is left out of games or activities. This is when teasing becomes bullying.

Other examples of bullying are:

saying mean things or calling people names
leaving people out of activities or spreading nasty stories about them
hitting and pushing people or taking their things.
Girls tend to bully in indirect ways that can be hard to spot. Boys tend to be more physical.

I have always raised my three sons and grand daughter not to bully, not to give in to a vicious, mean catty group mentality..........it's immoral in my book.

Again, "Do unto others EXACTLY as you would wish be done unto you". If EVERYONE followed that one simple rule, just that one rule, we could have a heaven on earth.

All of our human problems stem from that one rule being broken.

My 2 cents worth.

And ps: Am honored to have been on your friend list, your a very insightful and intellegent person.

One last thought, if reincarnation does exist, I pray my soul never encounters either my previous Director or her manager if I live a thousand more lifetimes..............these are truly psychopaths.

One last book to really get a handle on people in power and how most (not all) of them operate and why our planet is in such frappy shape is "Political Ponerology by Andrew M. Lobaczewski

Originally posted by Quasar_La-Zar
...
I do not remember the time before i was born,

...

life will start again in a new body case with a new brain.

..

Believing in god is just a required behavior for many of us to survive, and for others like me, its not.

Yes, replace one silly belief with another
so long as you feel superior with your version.

Dont remember anything before you were born? well...then using your words with a twist...
where is your all mighty reincarnation now?

anyhow, bit off topic, dontcha think? people whom are breathlessly anti-religion = religious to me, just in rebel mode...meh, not to worry...give it a few years and you will "find jesus" or whatnot..until then, you have found reincarnation...whatever floats your immortal boat I guess.

If there was a deity, do you think it would endlessly be micromanaging every person on every planet for eternity? I think thats sort of our job to take care of our own even if there is a deity that created the whole mess...a person whom builds a road isn't also jumping in everyones car to make sure they are doing the speed limit...its built, use it for good or evil or just to transport pizza, enjoy.

This is a case not of deitys failing, but of the village failing. bullying is as old as the hills, however, now with facebook, endless new methods to mentally torture someone, it isn't the bullying from years ago where school ended and so did the bullying...new bullying in school simply doesn't end at the bell.

WOW.

Some thoughts I have on the matter:

Off topic... If you care so much for people you do not know, and get so worked up by this tragedy, are you using you energy in the right way? You surely have loved people and sons, and friends and brothers and parents, dont waste energy in mourning unknown people, show the close people you love them and help them...

Now ON TOPIC:

The Bulling we are now experiencing is a lot worse than the one it was like 30 to 40 years ago, because back then the system actually stopped a "bad" kid. they hit them, smacked him/her, suspended her and reprimended THEIR PARENTS, or expelled from school and no school took back expelled kids.
Nowadays Schools are full of wackos, armed kids, drugged out kids , medicated kids AND BULLIES. The teachers, and school authorities cant do nothing because god forbids them to grab and eraser and hit a foolish kid.
Bullied kids latter in life (not all of them but a large part), have "scars" and tend to snap easily at any situation, tend to go from "nice" to "nuke" if the conditions are right for that.

I wonder if the parents bought some hawian shirts for their daughter. Or if they really cared.

BTW I am a licenced Psychologyst and my major is depression, so I know what I am talking about.. This suicide events are going to be more popular if there is no change in society.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Oh, ya...office politics.
I wouldn't really compare that to like a high school bullying though...rarely will people push you down (literally) steal your lunch, and give you a wedgie at the office.

But I know what your talking about...I spent many a years working in corporate america, and the mindset is exceptionally shallow on the politics side of things...dog eat dog world and whatnot.

I remember one job I got, I came on board hated simply for being from a different company that sort of got transferred mid-tier level...
I got no training and immediately got sent to do some installs of their package software, then got grumped at for not being perfect...I of course mentioned the no training bit and the slightly higher managers continued to grump...luckily upper managment was there and confirmed what I said, and told them to correct the action (give methe proper training).

jealousy is one aspect, but its also about fear that you will out preform them and they will lose their job...so ya, being overly good at what you do will upset many collegues and sabotage, or at the least unhelpful attitudes will be common the less stupid you appear to be.

in contrast, I did dumb it down at one job I had...asked alot of newbie questions, made plenty of tiny mistakes..I was loved at that job because nobody felt threatened

strange i was bullied in school and you know what i did? i worked out for 3 hours a day nonstop and became a powerhouse. had an ex-girlfriend who was abused as a youth and i had to help her deal with her insecuitys and suicidal tendancies. lets say it wasnt fun but that person is still alive; i cant understand why anyone would want to kill themselves i just put too much value in life i suppose.

reply to post by kix


Hollywood doesn't help...........it's now fashionable to be a spoiled, mean "princess".

And corporations in a very subtle way have broken up the family unit...................everyone is being pitted against everyone else and it's now, "every man for him/herself just to survive.

Drugs, alcohol, addictive traits.........I use to think the people that did these things were "bad" back when I was young and everything was either black or white.

Now, I know better............they are self-medicating because our enviroment is so harsh and ? evil is the only word I can come up with.

That and non loving, supportive.

Bullying adds to it and unfortunately, some opt out because this is one hell of a learning experience called life on Planet Earth.

I really wish that everyone that reads this would just do one random act of kindness, just one thing for someone else with no agenda or payback expected...........a smile, holding a door open or pushing that keep door open on the elevator, even buying a homeless person a hamburger or handing them a old sweater or coat you were going to throw away.

Kids, highschoolers reading this, just being a little nicer to the kids that aren't on the popularity list, at least leave them alone and don't bother them, a simple smile might make a big difference in someone's life.

My biggest quandry about humans is why they can't simply share and play nice togeather?

Originally posted by doyouremember
reply to post by ViperChili

 

you're probably a bully, and shun those who you assume to be mentally unstable. how many mentally unstable people have you tried to help in your life? How many mentally unstable people have you judged in your life? how many times have you contributed to others' mental instabilities? how many times have you desired to cause others pain?

where is the benefit in your reply?

Or, perhaps he see life a transitory state... We will ALL end up where these two young people went so or later. So they miss out on having children, getting in debt, working their lives to make someone else rich, and in the end, are right where they will be 60-70 years from now... Look at the positive. Maybe they will reincarnate into another life the were really meant for.

reply to post by SaturnFX


No but emotional wedgies and someone claiming credit for your ideas are just as painful.

I don't nightmare about my childhood - but I do about my office experience.

Many of the bullies on the playground are the future bullies in the workplace. Read Political Ponerology by Andrew M. Lobaczewski.

Bullies by their nature are psychopaths.

ViperChilli is clearly a punk kid with no children of their own.... they clearly understand NOTHING of life and therefore you should just ignore their immature attention whoring comments.

Back on topic - this is truly tragic Just imagine the poor mother who went in to wake up "the girls" in the morning only to find the apple of her eye dead with her friend... unbelievable

Originally posted by ViperChili
I don't care about other peoples feelings. Emotions are best kept to oneself.

This explains a lot about your response.

Originally posted by wrkn4livn
Or, perhaps he see life a transitory state... We will ALL end up where these two young people went so or later. So they miss out on having children, getting in debt, working their lives to make someone else rich, and in the end, are right where they will be 60-70 years from now... Look at the positive. Maybe they will reincarnate into another life the were really meant for.

its always better to consider the sunny days verses focus on the rainy days.

What does life give post 14 years old?
Good movies, sex, weddings and other celebrations, festivals, chocolate coated pretzels, the first new car/house/boat, fishing, skydiving, philosophy, music, seeing your first child enter into a world, kickin arse on some n00b in a video game you mastered, finding a piece of art that moves something in you, more sex using rubber things, jet skiing, kitten videos on youtube, owning your own cat/dog, hugging people you love, laughing, etc

the average life (especially in the west) is overflowing with really positive and happy experiences in life...most of which happens so much that it goes by unnoticed. we are soo conditioned for positive that it barely registers on our scale of impact,so, we focus on the negative bits of life and become depressed.

Its good to point out to others the exceptionally long list of things that kick ass in life and compare it to the list of things that kick your ass in life for perspective.

Taxes come once a year, laughing can be daily.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

Bullies by their nature are psychopaths.

I would venture to say most bullys are weak willed followers, following the one psychopath.