Suicide Pact: Minnesota Teens Haylee Fentress and Paige Moravetz Commit Suicide at Slumber Party

reply to post by ViperChili


Your philosophies are vastly contrasting to the general population, hence the shock and opposition you were met with upon sharing those philosophies. I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist, but I know a little bit about people, having studied psychology. In my experience, when someone is as steadfast in their beliefs, especially when it goes against the status quo as yours does, it is because you are seeking feedback. If you weren't looking for responses, you would have never posted and just went along minding your own business. But you knew that what you had to say was vastly controversial, and therefore you had all the more reason to solicit a response to see what people thought of you. I do not look down on you or judge you, because I am intimately acquainted with the concept of Empathy: on the part of the young girls who offed themselves, on you, and on the people who lashed out at you.

Your outlook on life that compassion should be kept to oneself is something you learned out of defense. You use your lack of emotional response as a defense mechanism in order to protect your psyche and true self. It's a common trait among troubled individuals. I'm not saying you are "troubled" or anything like that, I'm just saying it's a pattern I've seen. I imagine you go to bed some nights and question, silently, why things are the way they are. Maybe some tears are involved, maybe not. But you should learn something: compassion is a human emotion that shouldn't be kept to oneself. The whole purpose of compassion is to share it. Being compassionate for someone who is in pain doesn't do much good if you don't share it with the person. The OP of this thread just wanted to make people aware that children are destroying their lives, and frankly, it's crazy. There is no logic to a child voluntarily embracing oblivion, and if it is because the child cracked under such things as bullying or mistreatment, then it shows how cruel and messed up people really are.

Like I said, I'm not judging you because I recognize your attitude as a defensive one that you probably developed after dealing with some very intense emotional pain yourself. It would be wise to embrace love and compassion for your fellow human beings. The emotional rewards for being a kind and loving person far outweigh the few benefits of living a self protective life. I hope you find some truth in my words.

reply to post by OrphenFire



Stunned...............................You got it right - Well said and applause to you

reply to post by TheRealm


Efforrt? What effort? It takes no effort to give up and end it all. Effort is exerted in fighting to stay alive, not giving up and offing yourself.

reply to post by ViperChili


Its people like that make this world horrible. A bitter attitude and poor judgement of others.
Unlike you I actually had a cry thinking about these poor baby’s.

Seriously I can’t wait for this planet to be cleansed.

Folks,

Dont feed the troll (viperchill).

heck, he may be a sock puppet.....yall know how a sock puppet is "operated"..... ouch!

I truly feel for the parents. I lost my younger brother to suicide a year ago the 23rd of Dec.

With all the crap they throw at our kids, I'm really not surprised.

reply to post by FeraVerto


Look, I understand where ViperChili is coming from, just like him I'm not gonna shed tears over someone I didn't know. I'm not saying that them killing themselves is good, but it's better than having another incident like Columbine. Sure it's sad, but I really don't care. you can say I'm a monster and that I'm insensitive, and before you say anything my bestfirend killed himself and it effected me so bad I had to leave work. Since then I've haerd stories of people killing themselves over stupid hings like being bullied or women or something like that. In mt opinion that is really selfish. Being bullied? Fight back, tell someone, the point is don't be a D*** victim. Sad you're true love dumped you, well then you need to realize that she didn't love you and to get over it, and if you really loved them then you would want them happy. The point is, don't get mad at Viper for telling the truth, it may not be the complete truth, but it is the truth.

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by sepermeru

 

Nothing wrong with me at all.

2 mentally unstable individuals removed themselves from the planet. Is it not better they do it early and by themselves, as opposed to later, and taking others with them?

edit on 21-4-2011 by ViperChili because: (no reason given)

I definately wish those two guys from Columbine had done the same thing instead of going to school and hurting all those people.

Of course I have very little information to go on here. If it was peer pressure that caused this to happen then that is horrible and wrong. The reason I sorta feel like Viper does here is because of how horrible suicide is. How completely and utterly selfish. I love how they kill themselves, but leave notes stating that they loved their parents! Hey Mom, I love you so much I'm going to let you find your daughter dead in some horrible fashion without any hope of ever helping me. Sheesh!

I also understand when Viper says that he doesn't feel anything because he didn't know these people. However, I think he is taking it a bit far to prove a point of how dis-associated with life he wants so desperately to prove to everyone he is. I didn't know the people in Japan who died in the earthquake, but I was deepley saddened. However, I was not as sad as if I had actually known them.

I guess that is the difference Viper. I can admit that I don't care as much as if I had known them, but I still do care. I feel like you want to go into ROBOT MODE so pain and loss will not hurt you. Obviously if you feel no sadness then you can never be hurt.

I find it funny how quick people are to attack you on your belief. No matter what you say, I do believe it bothers you to a certain extent, whether you know them or not. I have been hurt greatly in my life by others and by death and sometimes I detach myself like you do so as not to compound the pain anymore.

Regardless, you are free to believe what you wish without being attacked. A rebuttal? Sure! But not attacked. God bless you and I hope you find some peace.

reply to post by ViperChili


I won't say that I agree with you fully Viper, but I will say that I have little remorse for anyone who commits suicide. It's the ultimate selfish act in my mind. They take the easy road and end things but leave the families to grieve and try to live with this constantly questioning themselves on what did I do wrong and could I have prevented it. Those left behind end up suffering more.

I really would like to know why people think killing yourself is the easy way out? I don't see how that could be easy, i think people who take there lives have to be in such pain to even accomplish death.

OK I got as far as the first page and wish to address this from my opinion.
I wonder how quick the fear mongerers here would step up and take partial blame for helping driving the mentally unstable paranoid deluded misled scared of their own shadow believes everything on ATS as FACT to suicide.
Don't think for one second that isn't even possible, gullible minds fly planes into buildings (not here 9/11 doubters) when they are prodded long enough and convinced their lives are already over because of infidels.
You have no idea if you helped contribute to anyone's death or indirect provocation to drive someone to take aim at a cop or other 'defenders of the illuminati'.
Have a nice day hypocrites,

Originally posted by rumor21
I really would like to know why people think killing yourself is the easy way out? I don't see how that could be easy, i think people who take there lives have to be in such pain to even accomplish death.

It isn't easy, it means they have concluded as absolute fact that they have no other choice because things can only get worse or they are convinced they are trapped in a mental torture prison with no possible way out.
I've been there, on many occasions, luckily I am too coward or must not be 100% convinced I am doomed, although I am an extreme pessimistic person with stupid mental problems I cannot seem to get help for and even had to tell my own doctor what the name of one of my problems was because they had no clue, they just want to push pills at me and say "chemical imbalance", I didn't realise a chemical imbalance would stop me and my family facing homelessness to be honest but thats another issue.

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

32, had a good friend kill himself about 10 years ago. Sure i was sad for a few days since I actually knew him.

Compassion, like religion, is best kept to yourself.

That's one opinion. I'm not sure what you're basing it on. Keeping our compassion to ourselves leaves us with a sterile, emotionless world. Sharing compassion and caring, openly, is what what sets us apart from the animal world (some of us anyway). Compassion is the reason for soup kitchens, Salvation Army, homeless shelters, friends comforting each other, and the list goes on and on.

If you find it advantageous to walk around emotionless and indifferent to the world around you, go for it. You will reap what you sow.

My belief however is that indifference and apathy is best kept to yourself. Now run along sport. Go play in traffic or something.

A sad fate indeed. From the article it seems to be that they killed themselves because they were ostracized and bullied, which is no doubt one of the bigger reasons why most kill themselves or it seems to stem from the heard mentality or the black sheep in society thing, or the whole lost and confused soul thing.

Ultimately I think these girls over did it, most that go trough such things don't hang themselves, even the most emotional, well they usually cut themselves or take pills, because there is a way you might survive trough it even when the deed is done. But by hanging themselves, much like a bullet to the head, or jumping of a high bridge, you pretty much sealed your fate, so they were definitely serious about killing themselves, which is no easy feat since and even in most serious of cases it takes some serious balls to go trough with it, death is something most people are scared #less of.

What I think is that they should of been taught to learn to shrug such things as bulling off, or deal with it, and I don't mean turn the other cheek, or the parents or some adult should of got involved to teach them, or intervene. But then again because kids will be kids and you cant impose some sort of rule or favoritism at school just for them, it will just draw attention to them and most likely increase the bulling, if just by different more covert ways, but then again once again, whatever works, and the school personnel should of got involved, because # kids have short memories and they will all forget that crap in a year or so, if it even take that long. And they with some help would of out grown there dilemma eventually, and as the saying goes. What does not kill you, will most likely cripple you, but what does not kill you or cripple you, will make you stronger, so they really, really, should not of killed themselves. RIP.

Originally posted by njh1988
reply to post by Nobama

 

I agree with you 100%, but I don't have time to depress myself over a couple children I never knew I give my compassion and thats it. If something happened to someone I personally knew it would be different they were in my life, I knew them, spent time with them, unlike these girls.

I agree. No one is asking you to depress yourself though. This is just a choice between "That sucks. I will pay my respects" and "Oh wow they killed themselves, I don't care".

It takes the same amount of effort to say both. It takes even MORE effort to be a jerk about it, than to just say "wow that sucks". Yes, people do die all the time. When you hear about it, pay respects or at least show respect. I don't understand how "people die all the time" can mean that people should be dicks about it. I feel bad because I would hate to lose any of my close family members around that age. I would be devastated. Thus, I know that their family members are devastated. I wish this didn't happen, I wish the girls were stronger, and realized that suicide isn't the way, but it happened, and it sucks. I feel bad, and I hope the family is able to stay strong and find peace.

reply to post by vesta


Just want to say you completely missed my point, how was I cold? I said they could of done something else instead of kill themselves, THAT MAKES THEM WEAK! they took the easy (AND WRONG) way out of it...god will you people stop attacking me and everyone else? It's called a opinion if you dont like it (or just simply dont understand it) move on.

reply to post by rumor21


Seriously? Well, it is easy as hell to kill yourself. Easy as hell, I can think of at least 5 ways, easy. Yeah, you can tell that I have thought about these things. Well, I didn't go through with it, it would have been easier if I had. I have learned lots of lessons since the last time I was going to do it, lots about myself, lots about other people. I would be dead a few years now, and would have messed up my parents and sister's minds had it happened. I don't know if it was divine intervention, or just a series of coincidences, but whatever it was, I am still alive. And honestly, being alive instead of dead at my own hands, proved to be a lot harder. I am not sure how to explain it here, but I went through a lot of mental pain, just following the week that I was planning on offing myself. If it will help someone avoid the stupid mistake of offing themself, maybe I will tell the whole story.

Originally posted by Nobama
reply to post by vesta

 

Just want to say you completely missed my point, how was I cold? I said they could of done something else instead of kill themselves, THAT MAKES THEM WEAK! they took the easy (AND WRONG) way out of it...god will you people stop attacking me and everyone else? It's called a opinion if you dont like it (or just simply dont understand it) move on.

The second half of my post wasn't exactly directed at you, my bad for typing it that way.

But how am I attacking you? I'm merely responding. I think the girls went the wrong way as well, and it was definetly stupid. But suicide as the easy way out? I don't know where this statement comes from, it's just wrong on every level. To people who suffer from depression, when they face suicide (no disrespect to the people I am about to mention), usually the ones who DON'T kill themselves are scared of death. If anything, suicide is one of the bravest things a person can do. Not brave in a good noble way, but in the other way. Regardless it sucks and I don't agree with it at all. I was just disagreeing with that point, and the other point that I addressed clearly in my post

reply to post by ViperChili


If you haven't noticed this guy only responds with the most negative comments, he know will piss people off. Don't let him piss you off, you have that choice. He/she/it seems to have no regard for human life, why waste our time arguing with him? His mind is made up as of now...

Originally posted by FeraVertoWhat is going on in the mind of children and teenagers these days?

Add the Paxil to the 'Death Ed' classes they get in school nowadays, and it is not at all a mystery.

www.antidepressantsfacts.com...
Another OBE program, Death Education, further damaged children by forcing them to focus on their own mortality: One student related the following story: "We had an English course in seventh grade junior high whose title was 'Death Education.' In the manual, 73 out of 80 stories had to do with death, dying, killing, murder, suicide, and what you wanted on your tombstone. One of the girls, a ninth grader, blew her brains out after having written a note on her front door that said what she wanted on her tombstone."
A class of sixth graders were asked to play a "survival game" in which they were to decide which three people they should eliminate from the group, according to their age and contribution; in another class they were asked to write their own epitaphs or obituaries.

Originally posted by starviego

Originally posted by FeraVertoWhat is going on in the mind of children and teenagers these days?

Add the Paxil to the 'Death Ed' classes they get in school nowadays, and it is not at all a mystery.

www.antidepressantsfacts.com...
Another OBE program, Death Education, further damaged children by forcing them to focus on their own mortality: One student related the following story: "We had an English course in seventh grade junior high whose title was 'Death Education.' In the manual, 73 out of 80 stories had to do with death, dying, killing, murder, suicide, and what you wanted on your tombstone. One of the girls, a ninth grader, blew her brains out after having written a note on her front door that said what she wanted on her tombstone."
A class of sixth graders were asked to play a "survival game" in which they were to decide which three people they should eliminate from the group, according to their age and contribution; in another class they were asked to write their own epitaphs or obituaries.

Wait... so learning about death can cause kids to kill themselves? If anything I would think that learning about death would dispel kids from wanting to die. But then again, I'm not a normal person... so I have no idea how normal people act to learning about death. I've spent the past 4 years at college learning about death and the afterlife specifically, and it's incredibly interesting to me. I also have cemeteries tattooed on my body, so I guess I take death with me everywhere. *spooky music*


In high school and middle school classes, we've had writing exercises where we had to write our own obituaries. But if anything, that assignment would show kids just how little they have lived. After all, when we were asked to write our own obituaries, we wrote it from the point of view of a long life well lived... imagining all the things we've done in our hypothetical life and all the people who we leave behind. So if anything, I think that would inspire kids to accomplish all the things that they said they've accomplished in their made up obituaries.

So why is it so important that school kids 'learn' about death? They are already aware of their mortality. These classes make death seem painless and normal. For the percentage of students who are feeling depressed or hopeless, these lessons can be deadly. But that, of course, is the intent all along.