Are manners a thing of the past?

if you don't feel it, don't say it...

if you do something for somebody and expect something in return, then don't do it

we live in a world shaped by hypocrisy and lies remember. do we need to add some more ?

respect carry values.

Whether you express it or not does not matter that much, far less than the truthfulness of your feelings;
maybe you have problem expressing feelings which would be a very different matter than knowing whether manners have gone from society.

because does mannerism for the sake of mannerism, for the sake of applying social standards, social conditioning or worst seducing (with other thoughts in mind - like "i need this person to do that so let's be nice to him/her) carry any value at all ?

me say let us just be ourselves, drop the ego and live for the idea of being alive instead

Nicely said.

Originally posted by Wang Tang

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
Hello everyone. Yesterday I just faced the cold harsh reality of what I have become due to what I have been exposed to from my former job and maybe even further. Last night my younger brother was replacing the hard drive to my first gen PS3 that I haven't used in years due to corrupted files. When he finished fixing it he told me about it and I just said "good". The reply I got afterwards was what made me realize just how insensitive I was. "what thats it, just good!? How about a thank you" then it dawned on me why this was the case. In my former job in the army, thanks and appreciation were rarely shown except in award ceremonies but those were always mandatory. very rarely did any of us receive a thanks or thank you after completing a task or finishing details.

My man, that wasn't bad manners on your part, that was bad manners on your brother. Who is he to tell you, just good? Does he think he knows what you went through in the Army? It seems immature to get riled up over not recieving an ingenuine "thank you," because that's all "thank you" has become these days. You hold a door open for someone and they say "thank you," but do you really think they give a damn if you hold the door open or not?

A real thank you would be for you to do a favor for him. Thank him with actions, not words. Bad manners on him because he didn't give you time to give him a REAL thank you.

The reason why thank yous and appreciations are rarely shown in the Army is because it is generally just an ingenuine gesture. Soldiers understand what other soldiers are going through, and helping each other out is the norm, not the exception, while I feel like it's the other way around in the civilian world. I may be over-generalizing here because I have much less Army experience than you, but I think there is a definite genuinity difference between the military and civilian world.

And I know that soldiers like to keep it real. Giving out ingenuine "thank yous" for every little thing in my opinion is not keeping it real.

edit on 21-4-2011 by Wang Tang because: (no reason given)

Truth is I help around the house and let him borrow my car when he needs to run some errands and he does not say please or thanks. I guess it would be kind of hypocritical for him to say that to me considering hes jobless and only helps when hes asked to do it. Who knows if manners have anything to do with soldiers being suicidal at work when they face harshness in another country for a whole year or longer but one thing I do know is for the amount of time and effort you put into your job, you will just be seen as the guy that can do it all and make you do more work till you mess up then take the blame for it all. If that makes any sense.

It's a calculating human error. What I mean by "calculating" is yourself logically reasoning with yourself, but seeing the act as reasonable, when thanking the person for doing something for you is unreasonable. Most of the time, the appreciation towards something like a ps3 doesn't seem to matter, but what you are asking someone else to do, to do, and does, gets accomplished, and you often see it as you doing it yourself. The mind plays tricks like that- it has been a human misgiving for ages. To change something like that is to really trick yourself into thinking that it is so important, that everything that goes with that ps3 means something so much to you. You'd be a freak to everyone else, but to the person that helped you out, would mean everything in the world.

Hey Stop-Less, Great thread!!

Manners are important. I don't care if Ted Bundy, Hitler, and O.J. Simpson all had good manners, it doesn’t make being polite wrong.

So what if some of it is a programmed response. It's a way of interacting with people that lets them know that you aren’t completely self absorbed. Yes, I agree, who cares about the F word, it's just a word, and I use it way too much. But, not in public.

I teach my children manners. I teach them that people all have a different set of values, and opinions. Having manners enables us to go out in to the world, and display the fact that we are not oblivious to the people around us who all deserve some level of respect.

Oh, and yes, I agree. People seem to be having less and less manners. My son had a friend (12 y/o) over a while back. It was the first time we ever met the kid. He was here about an hour and he just walked right into the kitchen and started rooting around in the fridge!! I also have friends with kids for whom i buy christmas gifts, and they don't thank me. Come on people, teach your kids how to act....

-My kids don't interrupt people when they are talking, because they want to be heard when they have something to say.
-They get up out of there chair and move to the floor if an adult is left with out a chair, because i told them that it's too hard for some adults to get up and down to the floor.
-They say please when they are talking to a store clerk, because they know if they don’t it sounds like they're making a demand.
-They say thank you to you when you hold the door for them, because they were taught to acknowledge someone that did something for them that they didnt have to do.
-They don't run around in restaurants, because...well you get it. They weren’t programmed.

I also believe the "pants on the ground" thing is a direct result of the dreaded Hand Me Downs!!

I'm 18, and i say hello to anyone i pass. I say thank you for anything i receive in anyway, and please for when asking for a service.

I surprise a lot of people, i guess I look like the type that could be rude and aggressive, when it's quite the contrary.

I see where your coming from; most people my age don't show nearly as much respect to others as i do. And when they see me, they ask why I am so nice. I reply with why are you such a dick, and they laugh it off with me.

Then again, I tend to give quite a bit as well. Hell, I would help out my greatest enemy. Hold your enemies closer, right?

There's the ol' theory that the bigger the local society (town, city, so on) the less manners shown on a daily bases. True, but honestly i believe other factors have a play in that. Such as the group think scenario.

As for the military, if i were to join that I think they would kick me out for saying sorry too much lol.

Originally posted by gandhi
I'm 18, and i say hello to anyone i pass. I say thank you for anything i receive in anyway, and please for when asking for a service.

I surprise a lot of people, i guess I look like the type that could be rude and aggressive, when it's quite the contrary.

I see where your coming from; most people my age don't show nearly as much respect to others as i do. And when they see me, they ask why I am so nice. I reply with why are you such a dick, and they laugh it off with me.

Then again, I tend to give quite a bit as well. Hell, I would help out my greatest enemy. Hold your enemies closer, right?

There's the ol' theory that the bigger the local society (town, city, so on) the less manners shown on a daily bases. True, but honestly i believe other factors have a play in that. Such as the group think scenario.

As for the military, if i were to join that I think they would kick me out for saying sorry too much lol.

They would try but they always need the numbers so they would keep you in anyway . Thank you for the reply and yes it does seem like people lose there humanity more when they can't show some type of emotion or response. We isolate ourselves further and therefore are less effective against most challenges in life. If you want to be mean and be an a$$ to someone then prepare to face obscurity.

reply to post by LostMyPassword


All words have meanings whether they are used in the correct context or not. Your personal opinion of the insignificance of using profanity is definitely not in the social norm. A "word" is not just a "word". If it were, the "N" word wouldn't be considered a demeaning word to African Americans. The "B" word wouldn't be demeaning to women. The "K" word wouldn't be demeaning to Jews. The "F" word wouldn't be used in anger.

Profanity are words, expressions, gestures, or other social behaviors that are socially constructed or interpreted as insulting, rude, vulgar, desecrating, or showing disrespect.[

Sorry to burst your bubble about the origins of sagging pants. Search anywhere on the internet and you will find that over 90 percent of the articles agree that it originated in prisons.

Just one link of many...

Lee D. Baker, Dean of Academic Affairs at Duke University, states that it is widely believed that sagging was adopted from the United States prison system where belts are prohibited.[3] Belts are sometimes prohibited to avoid suicide by hanging oneself, or to avoid being used as a weapon in fights.[4][5] The style was later popularized by hip-hop artists in the 1990s.[4

reply to post by Stop-loss!


Seems to be. Women look at me like I'm a martian when I open doors for them.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by LostMyPassword

 

All words have meanings whether they are used in the correct context or not. Your personal opinion of the insignificance of using profanity is definitely not in the social norm. A "word" is not just a "word". If it were, the "N" word wouldn't be considered a demeaning word to African Americans. The "B" word wouldn't be demeaning to women. The "K" word wouldn't be demeaning to Jews. The "F" word wouldn't be used in anger.

Profanity are words, expressions, gestures, or other social behaviors that are socially constructed or interpreted as insulting, rude, vulgar, desecrating, or showing disrespect.[

Sorry to burst your bubble about the origins of sagging pants. Search anywhere on the internet and you will find that over 90 percent of the articles agree that it originated in prisons.

Just one link of many...

Lee D. Baker, Dean of Academic Affairs at Duke University, states that it is widely believed that sagging was adopted from the United States prison system where belts are prohibited.[3] Belts are sometimes prohibited to avoid suicide by hanging oneself, or to avoid being used as a weapon in fights.[4][5] The style was later popularized by hip-hop artists in the 1990s.[4

But there's no symmetry between racial slurs and the f word. One is a racial insult designed for the purpose of insulting and demeaning people, the other is just a word for sex, but most often used to emphasis something.

I asked what's wrong with the f word? I know what's wrong with racially abusing someone, but saying f/ck is not racially abusing someone. So what is wrong with swear words, other than that society has designated them to be derogatory? On that same note; if it was socially unacceptable to wear blue clothes, or eat with a fork in your right hand, would you consider that derogatory and offensive behavior? Would you think of me as rude or crude for doing that? You probably would, but it would still be asinine.

The reality is you cannot make a valid argument against the f word, or most other swear words, because their isn't one. The only argument you can even attempt to make is to try and tie them in with racial slurs, which is laughable and downright offensive in itself as you're making light of racial abuse. Whether you know it or not. Or to say "f/ck is a swear word, swear words are bad"... Which is ridiculous reasoning.

And I don't care for internet research lol. Sagging pants have been around for hundreds of years. You must be mad to think they started in the late 1900s of America. Poor people have been wearing clothes that don't fit since before America existed as America. It has absolutely nothing to do with prison trends. That's anti-working class propaganda trying to smear a good percentage of the population who can't afford to dress right.

reply to post by LostMyPassword

And I don't care for internet research lol. Sagging pants have been around for hundreds of years. You must be mad to think they started in the late 1900s of America. Poor people have been wearing clothes that don't fit since before America existed as America. It has absolutely nothing to do with prison trends. That's anti-working class propaganda trying to smear a good percentage of the population who can't afford to dress right.

I don't think anyone here is talking about pants loose around the waste. Stop dancing around the real issue of in your face, obscene sagging. You must be part of the "me generation" if you find defending the use of vulgar words and pants sagging as socially acceptable. Being poor has nothing to do with it. You're reaching for straws to justify your point. I'm probably more than double your age and I can guarantee you, poor people back than did not wear their pants on their thighs. You know as well as everyone else here, we're not talking about a a little sag in the pants. Poor people hundreds of years ago didn't wear their pants like this.



(Notice the belt - this isn't accidental sagging.



Poor people sagged their pants hundreds of years ago? I don't think so...



If you don't care about research on the internet go look up the trend in the library. I'm sure it can be found in a book. Deny ignorance means proving what you say. That's all I'm doing.

Now if I close my post saying go "F" yourself, wouldn't you be offended? (Don't take it personally, I'm just making a point). It's not a racial slur, but anyone would get upset when the "F" word is directed at them.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by LostMyPassword

 

And I don't care for internet research lol. Sagging pants have been around for hundreds of years. You must be mad to think they started in the late 1900s of America. Poor people have been wearing clothes that don't fit since before America existed as America. It has absolutely nothing to do with prison trends. That's anti-working class propaganda trying to smear a good percentage of the population who can't afford to dress right.

I don't think anyone here is talking about pants loose around the waste. Stop dancing around the real issue of in your face, obscene sagging. You must be part of the "me generation" if you find defending the use of vulgar words and pants sagging as socially acceptable. Being poor has nothing to do with it. You're reaching for straws to justify your point. I'm probably more than double your age and I can guarantee you, poor people back than did not wear their pants on their thighs. You know as well as everyone else here, we're not talking about a a little sag in the pants. Poor people hundreds of years ago didn't wear their pants like this.

(Notice the belt - this isn't accidental sagging.

Poor people sagged their pants hundreds of years ago? I don't think so...

If you don't care about research on the internet go look up the trend in the library. I'm sure it can be found in a book. Deny ignorance means proving what you say. That's all I'm doing.

Now if I close my post saying go "F" yourself, wouldn't you be offended? (Don't take it personally, I'm just making a point). It's not a racial slur, but anyone would get upset when the "F" word is directed at them.

edit on 22-4-2011 by WeRpeons because: (no reason given)

I'm not doubting that it's become a fashion statement and people exaggerate the look because they think it's cool (or they did 10 years ago, skinny jeans are now in fashion). What I'm saying is it does not have roots in the US prison system. It comes from poor kids not being able to wear fitted clothes, and the middle class imitating the working class, as they've ALWAYS done. I don't care what some introverted and xenophobic American middle class historian has to say on the issue. The media want you to think its some sort of criminal trend to create a negative connotation with working class folks who actually do have clothes that don't fit them.

And you're still twisting and turning. I'm asking, and I'll repeat this so we have clarity; What's wrong with the f word, in itself?

Telling someone to go f themselves and using the f word are two entirely different things. If I said your Mum looks like a rat, that's an offensive statement, it's a direct insult and is outright derogatory. But the word rat, that's not offensive or derogatory.

If I said I went to a friends birthday party last Saturday and it was f'n awesome, is that offensive? If so explain why. You can't. The fact you haven't been able to in 3 posts says as much.

You know what I'm asking you, you're smart enough to know, it's not a complicated question. You're purposely being dishonest here.

You must be part of the "me generation" if you find defending the use of vulgar words and pants sagging as socially acceptable.

But I didn't say that, did I. I haven't said sagging pants or using 'vulgar'(lmao) words is socially acceptable, clearly it isn't. What I'm saying is what's socially acceptable isn't in itself right, moral or even logical.

All you have is circular reasoning.

- Swearing and sagging pants is wrong
- Why?
- It's socially unacceptable
- Why?
- Because it's wrong

I'm getting dizzy, actually.

reply to post by Hawking


Yeah, the "good old days" were only "good" because most people have very selective memories.... When you look into psychology, it becomes quite apparent. You see happy-go-lucky people that have had really terrible lives, and people that have had enviable lives depressed etc.

Originally posted by kaoticf8
Its crazy in this day and age there are people who just havent been taught these things, though its not just china there are other countries in the far west that are like this also, just doesnt make sense its the 21st century you'd think they'd of learnt about some of this stuff by now. Its just common decency and polite to do so, no wonder the worlds so screwed we need more manners and love

haha

So when someone speaks their mind openly and honestly to you, if they happen to think you don't look good on a certain day, you would call them lying to you "love"?

Rather than taking it personally and becoming emotionally distressed over it, maybe more Westerners need what parents call "hard love" even more. Maybe the Chinese just favor brutal honesty, and make no excuses for their real thoughts and feelings like Westerners do.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
I don't think anyone here is talking about pants loose around the waste. Stop dancing around the real issue of in your face, obscene sagging. You must be part of the "me generation" if you find defending the use of vulgar words and pants sagging as socially acceptable.

This post is hilarious. And no I don't wear my pants below my ass cheeks.


But the people who do are looking for exactly the attention you give them with this. The whole point is disregard for the social conformity that you represent with your post. In the 1950s the word "square" was popular. Same stuff, different day. The fact is that a lot of people wearing their pants like that don't want to be liked by you, or to like what you like, etc.

Personally I don't care how someone chooses to wear their pants. Thus they are not offending me wearing them below their ass cheeks and so I must not be the target of the message they are sending with it. But you have offered yourself to be the target, and gave validity to it as a form of blatant non-conformity.

reply to post by LostMyPassword


I answered your questions. You just don't want to accept the idea of social norms. I would think you would feel right at home in a lawless and rude society.

(You haven't proven anything to the fact that sagging pants got its roots from kids not wearing fitted clothes! You want to ignore the fact that it's been stated numerous times in numerous links that it did originate in prisons. Granted, you and I will not see eye to eye on this).

If I said I went to a friends birthday party last Saturday and it was f'n awesome.

How about this, "I went to a friends birthday party last Saturday and it was awesome!" Why do you need to put the "F" word in there? The "word" doesn't describe how awesome the party is. It's definitely not an adjective. Simply put, it's a word that has been associated before you or I were born as being profane. Am I saying the "F" word should never be uttered? Absolutely not! All I'm saying is there's a time and place for its use. Just sticking it in a sentence when you're around strangers shows blatant disregard for people who may consider it to be crude and lacks a sense of manners and decorum. You're looking at the "F" word from the perspective of the younger generation. We're sharing this planet with all age groups. Everyone needs to be aware of different cultures, races, and older generations. If you're going to offend anyone in public by saying it, why would you do it? It's just disrespectful, plain and simple. If you're with friends and you all talk that way, than that's your business.

reply to post by bsbray11


Would you like to see someone attending your daughter's wedding with their pants down to their thighs? How about attending church? How about interviewing a person who shows up with their pants down to their thighs. (This has happened and I ended the interview a minute after he entered my office!) What about kids attending school? If you want to make a statement there are much better ways of doing it. If you make a statement that is obscene, and ridiculous, nobody is going to take you seriously. I think most people can handle colored hair, tattoos and piercings, but when you start blatantly showing your ass and underwear in public it's ridiculous and offensive to some people. Why bother wearing pants?

reply to post by Stop-loss!


Manners like everything else are constantly mutating and evolving with time.
Like everything else manners are a matter of perception, what may be considered rude by one is considered polite by another.
The traditional manners are dying, new manners are being adopted.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
Would you like to see someone attending your daughter's wedding with their pants down to their thighs? How about attending church?

I don't go to church but I still wouldn't care. They could come dressed as a pirate or the Pope for all I care, and if anything I would laugh. A wedding is a celebration, not a time to be offended by clothing or making a scene for other things like that imo. C'est la vie.

How about interviewing a person who shows up with their pants down to their thighs. (This has happened and I ended the interview a minute after he entered my office!)

That's corporate mentality. I don't agree with much of corporate mentality because at the end of the day, the only reason they care about image (or anything else) is for larger profits, or saving money. Corporations are in the business of appealing to people, and appearing with a certain image, and it's about the exact opposite image someone is sending by wearing their pants around their waist. That's the whole point. Wearing pants around your waist is supposed to be an " 'F' you! " to "squares" to use the 50s terminology again.

I have to wonder why someone would apply for a job like that, because I agree with you that it's a total clash of mentalities.

What about kids attending school? If you want to make a statement there are much better ways of doing it. If you make a statement that is obscene, and ridiculous, nobody is going to take you seriously.

I don't know about all that because plenty of kids wear their pants like that in schools. Those kids are people too and seem to be taking each other seriously enough to repeat the behavior. Look at the Mexican drug cartels or street gangs in the US too. I don't want to say it's the same thing, but a lot of those guys wear their pants below their asses too. They also want nothing to do with the "straight" way of going along with society and doing everything that you're "supposed to" in order to further the American dollar and all that.

I think most people can handle colored hair, tattoos and piercings, but when you start blatantly showing your ass and underwear in public it's ridiculous and offensive to some people. Why bother wearing pants?

To each his own I suppose. I don't find piercings or tattoos offensive but I find them more offensive than the way someone is wearing their pants. I have no intentions of getting piercings or tattoos, ever. Can you imagine someone poking holes in your face, tongue, lips, stomach? And then putting metal through there? Just 'cause? To each his own, and I don't judge others for it, but I don't think I could do it and it creeps me out more than sagging pants do.