Pope and Anti-Pope die 10 days apart

Originally posted by Mynaeris
It is rather tragic that the points raised in various parts of this thread are never actually addressed by the "catholics" - so lets list them.

1) Where in the Bible does Jesus or God in the Old Testament or New state that people should pray to the Virgin Mary? Or is this an alternate Bible;

2) Why is it that it is clearly stated in the bible that Peter would be the foundation of the church, whilst the catholic church was founded by Paul.
To quote Jesus to Peter : "You are the rock on which I will build my church". Paul never actually met Jesus nor does the two versions of his conversion actually disagree with each other.

3) Why is there a need for relics when beatifying a "saint"? Taking a body part of a human no matter how pure and wonderful and praying to it is strictly pagan in nature.

Don't call us ignorant, prove us wrong.

Hi Mynaeris.............
First of all, I am not Roman Catholic ...........

Quote////1) Where in the Bible does Jesus or God in the Old Testament or New state that people should pray to the Virgin Mary? Or is this an alternate Bible;
ok.......you said where in the Bible///
Praise God in His Saints! (Ps. 150:1
cloud of witnesses (Heb. 12:1) that surrounds us? Who could name each one of the living who with Christ, through Christ, and in Christ have triumphed over death and have access to the throne of God, the saints in whom the Lord rejoices (Isa. 41:16 LXX) and takes his rest (Isa. 57:15 LXX).
How precious also are thy friends unto me, O God! exclaims David the Prophet-king. If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand (Ps. 138:17-18 LXX).
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues. But all this is the work of one and the same Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he wills (1 Cor. 12:8-1 1).
Quote// on the Virgin Mary............
The principal, solemn church hymns are texts from the sacred Scriptures: the salutation of the Angel, Rejoice, full of grace, the Lord is with thee (Luke 1:28), and the hymn of the Most Holy Virgin herself, My soul doth magnify the Lord (v.46).
Theres more....
www.orthodoxinfo.com...

and theres more but I wont go on.....
www.orthodoxinfo.com...

quote///2) Why is it that it is clearly stated in the bible that Peter would be the foundation of the church, whilst the catholic church was founded by Paul.
To quote Jesus to Peter : "You are the rock on which I will build my church". Paul never actually met Jesus nor does the two versions of his conversion actually disagree with each other.

This statement above was made ........I'll explain below....

"Christ is the head of the Church" (Ephesians 5:23) and the "head of the Body" (Colossians 1:18).
That thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the Truth (I Tim. 3:15). Christ as a Son over His own house, Whose house are we (Heb 3:6).
"the body of Christ," the Church increaseth with the increase of God (Col. 2:19
The Lord Jesus Christ is also the Founder of the Church: I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (Matt. 16:18).

Christ is also the Foundation of the Church, its cornerstone: Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ (I Cor. 3:11).

He also is its Head. God the Father gave Him to be the head over all things to the Church, which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Eph. 1:22-23).
Concerning the rock upon which the Lord promised the Apostle Peter to found His Church. St Juvenal, Patriarch of Jerusalem, in his epistle to the clergy of Palestine after the Fourth Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon writes: "When the chief and first of the Apostles Peter said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, the Lord replied, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar Jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven.
And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (Matt. 16:17-18). On this confession the Church of God is made firm, and this Faith, given to us by the holy Apostles, the Church has kept and will keep to the end of the world."
www.orthodoxinfo.com...

www.orthodoxinfo.com...

and your third question or statement...//quote/////) Why is there a need for relics when beatifying a "saint"? Taking a body part of a human no matter how pure and wonderful and praying to it is strictly pagan in nature.

Because it is written in the Bible .....

Behold we count them happy which endure... " (Js. 5:11).

In the apostolic Church, all the remains of the "friends of God," the righteous strugglers (I Cor. 9:25), were referred to as relics—bones, heads, hair, hands, feet, and sometimes entire bodies, if they were preserved, through which the Lord God is glorified by mysterious wonders
Who is wondrous in His Saints, "And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul, so that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them" (Acts 19:11-12).
shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them ... and they were healed every one" (Acts 5:14-16).
"Blessed are the dead that die in the Lord from henceforth. Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest I from their labors, and their works do follow them" (Rev. 14:13).
www.orthodoxinfo.com...

We venerate do not WORSHIP .....
SORRY FOR THIS LONG POST (forgot caps on...not screaming...
helen....

It is interesting that the the pope, the "anti pope" and the last of the fatima kids died in a such a tight grouping.... Kinda makes you think. Especially considering according to prophecy there are only 2 popes left before the end.

My bad, but this thread is pretty funny.

Again, not to be rude, but it amuses me that you Christians of different sects are arguing amongst yourselves. Okay, it's downright hilarious!

All BS aside, why the Catholic bashing at this time? At least put it off for a while, that would be a nice gesture.

And, what's the deal with this anti-pope concept? Is there an anti-everything in Christianity? Then again, there's anti-stuff for anything..

[edit on 6-4-2005 by truthseeka]

Originally posted by truthseeka
My bad, but this thread is pretty funny.
Again, not to be rude, but it amuses me that you Christians of different sects are arguing amongst yourselves. Okay, it's downright hilarious!

Yep, relgion was invented purely for the amusement of the truly enlightened.

No need to throw christians to the lions, just throw one sect into the ring with another sect and let the blood games begin!

I wonder if this guy was Gloria olivae. The cross could have been made of olive wood, and he supposedly manifested the wounds of the cross. That would mean the next Pope will be Petrus Romanus and the end is nigh.


Edit: Actually it looks like this guy became the antipope before JPII became Pope so I guess this is impossible.

[edit on 4/7/2005 by djohnsto77]

Okay...
Being 19 i will acknowledge that i have alot to learn. But i do feel i can make a point in this thread anyway

I have chosen to practice protestant chrstianity. Have been protestant my whole life. But it was a choice. My mother is christian and my father is not, he used to be but he is more scientifically minded so he believes in God but does not agree with how christians do anymore. Needless to say my parents are going on 23 years of marriage despite the religious difference that occured after many years of already being married. Anyways, i was raised seeing both sides and being able to make a choice and i did. i state this so you can see that i try to be an objective person.

I chose to be Lutheran because of the disagreements that i have in the worship style and interpretation of the doctrine in the catholic faith and obviously some other denominations within christianity as well.

I realize that some of the people on here that are protestant really want to get the word out that they feel the catholic practice is wrong...and sometimes it is really hard not to get caught up in the "who is right" "who is wrong" game.

I want both sides to be reminded that once it turns into a fight it is no longer evangelism anymore.

I havent found any denomination of christianity to interepret the Bible 100% the way that i do. So i go with the one that i feel fits me the best..or what i feel the truth is..thats why being Lutheran works for me. You also have to remember that each church within the denominations differ from each other too. Some catholic churches may interpret or have a certain ritual while others may not. im sure any of you who have been to different churches of the same denomination have found some small and big differences even though they are the same denomination as the last church you went to. I hope that makes sense

Please remember that the Bible says we all sin and fall short of the Glory of God and as long as they believe Jesus Christ is the son of God sent here to die for our sins and rose again that really is the heart of Christianity regardless of the denomination. I will agree with the other non catholics in here that there are some issues that get me a bit heated in regards to the catholic church that i find to be IMHP to be very against the Bible, but you know what, I sin too, everyday, some things i do that are wrong i even feel justified in doing at times so at the end of the day, i am no better than the people i disagree with.

God will hold people accountable for what they do no matter what denomination you are. I find the best way to bring someone close to what you believe is to lead by action, and if you are going to speak to them about it, keep it strictly with in the realms of doctrine and not bashing them or making it an ignorance vs. intellectual issue. that means knock off the CAPITAL LETTERS with the million explanation points. Truth will speak for itself it doesnt need the added emphasis...people take it as you shouting at them and like i said once it becomes a fight its not evangelising anymore.

so i apologize to any catholic in this thread that was offended by anything that any protestant or other non catholic has said. Their intentions im sure were good, passion can some times become overwhelming and very frustrating to a person when someone doesnt share the same passion on their views.

and to any protestants or non catholics: im sure that the other side feels the same passion for their views as we do for ours and im sure they would extend their apologies to any of you that were offended as well.

SO FIGHT OVER PLEASE. man they say the youth of america has a problem...sometimes you adults need an swift kick in the a$$ too lol!

can we resume the pope and anti pope 10 days apart thing..that was kind of interesting to hear about that lunatic.

Kind Regards,
Digital Grl

Originally posted by Legalizer
Yep, relgion was invented purely for the amusement of the truly enlightened.

No need to throw christians to the lions, just throw one sect into the ring with another sect and let the blood games begin!

I hope you find it just as entertaining when the Protestant and Catholics ascend into heaven and get all our questions answered while you get cast into the lake of fire.

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by Legalizer
Yep, relgion was invented purely for the amusement of the truly enlightened.

No need to throw christians to the lions, just throw one sect into the ring with another sect and let the blood games begin!

I hope you find it just as entertaining when the Protestant and Catholics ascend into heaven and get all our questions answered while you get cast into the lake of fire.

SEE??

That's my biggest peeve with some Christians. It's not enough that you're wrong in their eyes for not believing the way they do. Oh, no. You gotta suffer for eternity for this. Way to spread the love, guy. It seems like you get off on your belief that non-believers will burn in a lake of fire (talk about an oxymoron:pbjtime more than the idea of loving your neighbor.

Does it make you feel better about yourself to feel that your God condemns some to eternal punishment? I bet you support Alberto Gonzales too, you both seem to like torture!! I can hear you now...

"You dirty non-believer, I long for the day of your death. That way, you'll know I was right, but it will be too late. You will DIE, and you'll BURN FOREVER, you'll BURN for eternity, and I'll look down from heaven and laugh at your damned soul. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! :bnghd: