Overpopulation? Elitest Propaganda and Damned Lies Lies Lies!

To those of you who fear overpopulation, WHAT exactly do you propose be done in order to solve this problem?

reply to post by spikey


Nice try... but this thread is F***ING STUPID.

Seriously... you just loosely strung together pseudo-scientific theories that stem not from irrefutable fact but instead from your own feel-good denial/lashing-out at the VERY REAL PROBLEM of overpopulation.

Some real/factual perspectives:

www.independent.co.uk...

www.overpopulation.org...

www.sciencedaily.com...

www.panearth.org...

reply to post by spikey


I have to say, this is probably the best thread I've read on this site. Well written, love the format, etc.

The floating farms are...brilliant, needless to say.

They talk about Oil running low, and what not, but there are other energy systems available for transport. A thought that comes to mind, would be something like a steam car, if the general population switched to steam cars, and we used Oil exclusively on Planes, Diesels, and anything that either transports large groups of people, or goods, then we wouldn't face this situation. Or, the hydrogen driven motors, or anything else, for that matter. Out of the billions of people on Earth, somebody, somewhere possess the knowledge of a fuel system other than oil.

My other gripe is the loggers. I was watching TV with my parents the other day and that American Loggers show came on, and I couldn't help but feel disgust. Thousands of acres being cut down...almost brought a tear to my eye.

Eh, regardless, great thread! S&F

On a personal level, I've been crowded out of each home town I've lived in, and I hate it.

It would start off as an orchard, then developments take over orchards, then commercial moves in, then industrial.

The two lane roads replaced by four lane, and the small rural home lots turn into apartment complexes. Mass population and economic cycles turn friendly neighborhoods into poverty and gang territory.

A casual drive to the market and to work turns into gridlock.

Electrical systems are overloaded. Sewer system is overloaded. Water systems are pushed to the limit. Roads go unmaintained. Then comes the restrictions on personal liberties in order to control the crowds. I hate this.

7 Billion people in the world in 2011, just thirty years ago (1981) it was 4.5 Billion. This is unsustainable.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b7e077d6bd7d.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by Amaterasu


No, it has been growing quite a bit, and continues to grow.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by davidgrouchy

 

Dont take in as an insult, just calling a spade a spade. Overpopulation and high population density are different things.

Yes they are different things.

High population density is true, and can cause problems.

Overpopulation is a myth and a myth used as a tool.

You have it backwards. High population density is not a problem, there are many densely populated cities with very high standard of living.

Overpopulation is the problem, when population growth exceeds available resources and lowers quality of life. That is happening or has happened all over the world, but in the third world, not developed world.

Wow Spikey! What an excellent thread!!

Even if the population grows to be a trillion beings on mother Earth, the amount of water would be more than sufficient. The question is, why aren't the PTB concentrating on mega de-salination plants along suitable locations along coastlines (that don't have an adverse impact on the environment)? But instead they say that the population would need to be cut, because it's a damn conspiracy!

But hey! An overpopulated world could really screw things up! I wonder where all the extra souls are coming from? There must be a secret soul manufacturing plant somewhere!!!

Depends on what kind of overpopulation really. But yes overpopulation exists, not because this planet cant support the people on it now, or even more people. But because the system's and lifestyles, we have is detrimental in lots of ways to us, and wasteful as well, basically overpopulation exists because the systems we create and the way we are can not be sustained indefinitely within itself as well as within the ecosystem with the tools and ways we are using now.

And having a throw away consumer society world wide is really not a good way of sustaining anything, nor are the way's we go about it, pretty much everything is built to be thrown away by design, as for the profits to keep churning and increasing, and those profits are only for some anyways. And either way this leads to lots of garbage, and lots of crap everywhere and lots of by product waste. Sure this planet can support more people, but like I said the systems we have today that can sustain us can not.

And really how many people do you want, even if the limits could be expanded world wide of sustainability for all, because there are limits even in that. Does everybody really want to run into somebody every time they turn around like in some countries and some cities. There is a point before they cross the line, were everybody has to ask themselves how do they want to live, and really thats what it comes down to. You can live like rabbits in hutches and sustain that world wide, or have less people and more space and less concentration of peoples into small areas and sustain that world wide, because really both are possible.

Originally posted by unityemissions
So I have a small aquaponics setup. The fish feed the plants and the plants clean the water. A mini ecosystem. If I add too many or too little fish, the plants will die. Theoretically I can add fish until the aquarium is entirely full, but how incredibly foolish and unsustainable would that setup be?

Overpopulation is far, far, far from myth, kiddos.

I actually agree with you. Sure here in North America we don't really have that problem, but in places like China or Africa, it's more than serious. The city of Lagos for instance recieves hundreds of new immigrant everyday. It's so much that house and utility builders can't keep up and a vast majority of immigrants live in slums. In India, there are so many people that bath in the indus river that it has become polluted (don't even need industry)
The planet is big, but more than 3/4 of it is virtually uninhabitable.

Sure water dosen't just disapear, but it does get more polluted mainly because of industries we support, so drinkable water availability is decreasing. In arid places, even if you have drinkable water it dosen't mean you can get it to everyone. Lakes and rivers CAN dry up and salt water is extremely expensive and a long procces. The idea of extracting water from air is ingenious, but dangerous. It could alter climate for real. Change properties of the air, change life conditions in that area... and maybe less rain downwind.... it could help extend deserts.

While I do agree that part of the problem are some of the rich and powerful refusing to spend for those people to have food. There is also the fact that even though medicine has gotten better and people live longer and suffer far less infant deaths, combined with the fact that baby making isin't slowing down. Some countries don't use birth control either thus worsening the condition.

There are some good points in this thread and media do tend to exagerate problems for feat mongering, but to deny overpopulation in half the world is as ignorant as saying pollutions isn't real just because global warming is a scam. (no offense intended)

Sorry guys, I didn't read all the replies as I'm stretched for time; so sorry if someone had brought up this point.

I think the whole "over population" argument holds some ground not in that "oh no - we're running out of food" but more along the lines of "we're running out of houses, jobs and hospitals". I know this is indeed the case in Australia. Not sure how long I can go on paying $450 a week for a one bedroom apartment, but I would hate to see the state of this place in 20 years times!

The argument of "the world is big enough" is fair; assuming we ditch modern industry and live in the forests. Sadly, that is never going to happen (I may eat these words at the end of 2012).

And yes, governments want more money, which is why they don't build more hospitals and low-rent houses (since it costs money). The real problem is that we elect idiots into power based on their haircut, not their visions for a better planet. Social progress has halted because our "leaders" are too afraid of losing an election if their ideas are "bold". If a US President said "we're going to build 5 new cities this year that will house 5 million people in low-income housing, and supply the infrastructure for 5 million new jobs", he would be laughed out of office - and a more conservative person would be elected, who would do things like crap on about climate change or make up reasons to go to war.

Yes, there are high density cities that have high standards of living. However, they suck. No, really. Why? Because they are vacuums, black holes. What city is self sufficient? What city doesn't require it's food stores to be shipped in? What city produces oxygen from vast forests? What city does not require a support system from Outside the City? Yes, there are vast tracts of land with no people. For good reason, or else we would already be there. And yes, when you fly over the country, you don't see cities shore to shore, because that's where the Food is Grown! Or else its fairly useless, and that usually means, not enough water or tough terrain. Do you think the reports on fishing stocks being depleted are jokes? Are the dead zones in the oceans okay with you? And when the Ogallala aquifer is drying out and getting ready to create another dust bowl and end the American Bread Basket, I guess we can just replace the formerly good farmland with more cities, right? I can see this is a polarizing thread, which provokes ideas and thoughts, rants and raves, but having lived in many places in our country and visited far more, the growth I've seen is usually at a high cost to the environment, and if anyone thinks we can outlast the good health of our environment, they are nuts!

Originally posted by greekg0d
Hey!
This is my first post on ATS. I just wanted to say thanks for this thread.

Even if you dont have all the facts right, even if counter-arguments exist, I absolutely agree with your logic and mentality on this issue.

Because, even if the planet was overpopulated, we should be researching and developing ways to deal with that in a creative way not wishing that people cease to exist or, even worse, rendering parts of the planet uninhabitable..

There are so many things that can be said on this issue but I just want to say thanks for staying positive and for valueing human life in these tough times

GG

The real answer is for a certain segment of the population to head off to the star's, they have the technology but won't release it...

reply to post by jaxnmarko


I think some overpopulation proponents watched too much Star Wars

I keep wondering where this idea of over population keeps comming from, or the idea that we can't substain our own species. Do you think every bit of food in the grocery store is consumed? No, in fact the stores throw out a great deal of food.

How about water.... this planet is covered by it. How do countries like Japan survive with it's numbers. Surely there isn't that much underground water to drink.... oh yeah, the purify the ocean. It's not hard, cosidering the tech is out there.

How about farmable land? Ok.... you got me there... but... oh wait... I live on the 5th floor of a building and i have a small garden on my balcony. It's called potting soil, and compost.... Compost, our everyday bio-degradable trash.

How about energy... we can't live with out our oil...cept... we have the sun, the wind, and various other renewable sources for energy. If the oilmen would let us even try to make that more practicable. And why is it infinately more to own a hybrid or biofuel car?

"But how many is two many... if we aren't over populated now, when and what then?" First of all, lets face it, 7 billion people is alot of people. A record high of living humans on this planet. However, we aren't maintaining the same growth levels seen in the past. In the US we topped out with the largest population increase of almost 6 percent, during the year 1946. Since then, it's been a steady decline to the now 1 percent of residents.... and that's not all us citizans. "Globally, the growth rate of the human population has been declining since peaking in 1962 and 1963 at 2.20% per annum. In 2009, the estimated annual growth rate was 1.1%." (Wiki) All it takes is a series of natural disasters to happen, to put us in the negitives.

"But we need to save the earth." Nevermind the fact that greed has put the planet in it's peroloius position in the first place, lets pretend that just our mere natural existance is causing pain to the planet. I have 1 word for you guys. Dinosaurs. They were taxing the planet of their day and what happened? They exinct. I'm sorry, I have to go with George Carlin on this. It's not the Earth we need to save.... The Earth will be just find after our exinction. WE WON'T!!

reply to post by spikey


I'm going with overpopulation, yes. While the worlds population might fit into Texas with standing room only, that doesn't mean cramming tons more people on this planet will be a good idea. I do agree with the idea of building more efficently and recycling and better use of resources, but if most every spot of available, liveable land, is going to be used by humans, the theory falls apart. Every inch of this planet is not useable to us. Waste and pollution doesn't just dissappear overnight. And humans aren't the only thing that matters. The bigger the population, the bigger the waste. Why not take care of the humans already on this planet (every single one) before reproducing like there's no tomorrow? And besides, the more densly populated the planet becomes, the more people get wiped out at a time by natural disasters, diseases, what-have-you. Sounds like a filthy nightmare to me....

reply to post by spikey


I couldn´t agree more. Here in Europe under the CAP reform policy (central agricultural policy) Farmers are being paid not to grow food. There is a deliberate constant war on to drive farmers out of business with high feed costs and low returns on milk, meat and crops.
As soon as we the people wake up and kick the handful of so called Powers that be off this planet the better it will be for all of us.

I have data to back up everything I included in my last post, I did use 4 reams of paper to print it all out though and I find that scanning this much data and trying to find somewhere to host it just so some of you can chuck a little more rubbish on the pile of rational thought some what daunting but well below my level of tolerance but also making it very low on my priority list, although it would be more of an effort than the thought process of some of the people here.

The problem here is most of you are still thinking inside of the little box where your masters want you to be, when you can crawl out of that box then you will see things in a completely different way, this is why you need to rationally research these areas with an open mind no matter what the end result reveals, this is what I have done and I am sure a lot of other members have also done, by the way I NEVER stated anywhere in my post that the end of next year would be the end of the world, this was YOUR thought process alone that brought you to this conclusion, and although I also never stated this, It WILL be the end of the world AS WE KNOW IT, everyone will finally wake up and see the light for what it is.
Some of you still think that what you see in front of you is real when in actual fact it is an illusion, an illusion in the form of free will, given to us to make a choice, a choice that will effect where we go and what we will do in our next life, will you ascend or evolve or will you come back and do it all over again? if you evolve will you take the positive path or the negative path? If you don't make a choice like a lot of the people who have posted in this thread have obviously not then your next body will not look like this one, although you wont know because you wont remember, such is the 3rd density or density of choice and of veiling of the memory.
You talk about overpopulation, do any of you know why we have so many people here at this place at this time? maybe some of you but most obviously not the ones talking of overpopulation..........let me enlighten you a little, this planet is entering the next phase of its evolution into 4th density (the density of love), in the universe this is a major event, like all your Christmas's, birthdays, and every other event in your life happening only once on the same day (although this one takes a lot more than one day), consequently entities from all over our galaxy are being incarnated here just to be a part of this event. This planet is under strict quarantine, a quarantine that will be lifted on the 21st of December 2012, after this date you can expect first contact on a very public level, unlike first contact between the so called illuminated ones and the Orion confederation, for your general information these are the negative guys who have influenced them, why do you think we are being bombarded on TV and in Movie's with alien invasion scenarios, ever noticed that they are ALL completely negative!!....only telling you one thing "these guys are bad", this is what they want you to think because they know this will be the ultimate final end to their reign and they are not prepared to lose that power.
This was also one of their scenarios for the eradication of at least 4 billion people, drop nukes from their own saucers on large populated areas around the world and blame it on the aliens, im sure you wouldn't have been to keen on that method of depopulation now would you, you really need to have a grasp on the big picture and be able to put the puzzle together before making uneducated judgements on subjects you know very little about, using only programmed thoughts.

reply to post by spikey


I totally agree, this is insane..... Its like a fish tank if you overpopulate it then the fish will turn against each other because of unforseen reasons.

reply to post by spikey


The problem is the world bank, and the royal famalies of the world.with more people comes loss of control, with loss of control ,comes more individual thinking unchecked, that is why America and Briton, and Isreal, are having a killing spree, unchecked by the UN, remember the Canandian forces whe were ordered to stand down, during a extermanation of 1.000.000 tutsis,because the UN did not want any more forces there .just like this year canada says it's intel, call's for more troops in several African countries and Canada voulunters it's troop's the UN said NO. what does that tell you they want murder and extermanation to continue !

One thing I have noticed here is that some people can not read long posts, is this an attention deficit problem?? or just ignorance??

Check this post of mine to learn more about how the worlds media is structured for the sole purpose of control.