UK Children As Young As 12 Allowed Puberty Blocking Drugs

reply to post by HorizonMan


I never said 32%, I said 30%......and there is alot of research in to it

like I said earlier.....

google it, it's there on the first page

Originally posted by boncho
Here's a fun quiz for anyone that doesn't understand the issue.

Post your scores, I got 3/10

edit on 16-4-2011 by boncho because: (no reason given)

LMAO
7/10. But still a few of them were guesses

My mate should have taken this test before he went to Bali a few years ago, he got caught out
I think if im ever in that part of the world and im picking up a woman i think a grope test must be the only way to truly know whether i was taking home a girl or ladyboy. Truly scary stuff.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Maslo

 

Well, google it then!!!

Well, maybe you are mistaking it for intersex children? These have genuine physical intersex features and abnormalities, which may be treated by surgeries or hormone therapies. That is not the same as gender change because the person only feels like the other gender.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Nonvexatious


enlightened thinking?

it only feeds the confusion for both the child, and society.

i wonder if you would take this same enlightening approach with something like docking the tale of a canine. would you wait until it was 12 years old and already developed? only to put it through barbaric artificial surgery?

theres a reason they do it right when they are born and not years down the line.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by meeneecat

 

On the transgender issue.......

this seems to be a more "modern" term used of recent times and I have to wonder, without checking, if there was any research done in to this subject before 1950

I'm not sold on the idea on transgender persons but I do have to wonder if it's more of a psychological or "environmental" problem causing it. 30% regreting their decision after having a sex change is very high.

To answer your question, there has been research and it's always existed, just like homosexuality. Check out this list of famous transgender people. Obviously there are more listed from modern times because it has become more talked about, however there are many from before the 1950's which we were able to discover through historical records, diaries, etc. (even if they weren't talked about in public back then, chances are we would have known about more cases had society been more accepting).

List of Transgender People In History

And here's a preview of a book (from google books) that covers 150 years of transgender history.

"Transgender History" by Susan Stryker

reply to post by meeneecat


Thanks for the link however it did'nt tell me much at all. Transgender and homosexuality are two different things, or are they? Somehow they seem to be cross linked. Both gendas conducting sex changes usually do stay with the same sex when choosing a mate. Most (male) transgenders who do go through a sex change stop short of having his private parts chopped. Of those who do have their genitals removed, a majority eventually end up committing suicide. Of the female transgenders who go through a male sex change, many of them do naturally have children themselves. So, in my opinion, there is clearly a deep seated psychological problem with transgenders rather than the claims they allege they were "born" with it. Born with what other than how they came out naturally as it was meant to be? How many of these transgenders have had a cat scan? Genetic X/Y testing? Thorough long term psychiatric treatment?

I was looking at the list of those famous transgenders.....Wow, 99% of them were writers and artists. That tells me alot about them, the right side of the brain which happens to be the creative side, I wonder how many of them were left handed....

Originally posted by mr-lizard
So much for ATS being open minded.

How on earth can a child be transgendered, what a stupid concept and slightly disturbing. What is wrong with this planet?

Edit: Just reading some of these posts - some members who are pushing transgenderism on children and claiming that kids as young as five know that they are the wrong sex. Unbelievable.

You people NEED to get your heads checked. And possibly stay away from children, you sick, depraved people. Just because your own lives are screwed does not give you quarter to start messing with other people's lives. You are part of the problem and not the cure.
------------
...I am open-minded, but this is abhorent.

Firstly puberty is a NATURAL process that shouldn't be interfered with.

Secondly, NOBODY should be allowed to have a sex change until they reach adulthood and are capable of making decisions for themselves, after the confusing journey of puberty....

Yes you are so obviously "open minded". Considering the fact that you are denying that transgendered children even exist, when they so obviously do, when it's been studied and documented, and the harms of allowing some to develop through puberty end up causing more damage in the long run through expensive and risky surgeries that are then needed later on in life. You deny the existence of an entire group of people, call them ridiculous, claim to know whats best for these kids and what they should be doing with their own bodies and then claim to be open minded. Here's a thought. Read a book. Talk to some doctors. Go meet some transgendered children that you claim don't exist.

And by the way, no one, no adult, no parent, no government is "forcing" transgenderism on anyone. Why would anyone do that when it is such a difficult hellish thing to go through (in part due to ignorant people like yourself). There is no "forcing" of anything. If anything, there is a forcing of these children to conform to a gender that they are horribly uncomfortable and at complete odds with. It's the children who are deciding for themselves, because they JUST KNOW...and no matter what the parent does to try to get them to conform to their original gender, in the end it DOESN'T WORK...and just ends up causing all sorts of other problems down the line (lowered self esteem, depression, etc.)

I posted this before, but I'll post it again, seeing as it seems you should re-read it (although I don't know if it will matter any to you, as you seem to have your mind already made up)

Puberty is a very difficult time for almost all transsexual youth, and many other transgender youth as well. Puberty is often considered to be a difficult time for everyone in many ways. But unlike their peers, who may be excited about bodily changes and thrilled with growing up, transsexual youth are appalled by the changes that take place. While their peers may seem to be happy about going through puberty, the changes that they are experiencing do not feel right. The androgyny of childhood is lost at this time, and transsexual youths see changes in their bodies that make them very uncomfortable and put them through considerable agony.

In addition, many physicians insist that adolescents go through the puberty associated with their chromosomal sex before they prescribe hormones that could have prevented the feminization or masculinization of a transsexual man or transsexual woman, respectively. Because of this, some transsexual people must often undergo expensive, risky, time-consuming, and painful procedures to reverse pubertal changes that could have been prevented with early intervention.

SourceSource

People on this thread claiming that transgender youth don't exist, or "don't know what's best for themselves" should watch this documentary on Transgender Youth:

reply to post by meeneecat


I'm yet to go through all the videos but from what I have seen so far, the parents and carefully chosen doctor are ENABLING these "transgender" kids.

There is no treatment offered to these kids to try to curb these "tendancies" of sorts. But what IF it WAS offered long term? Would we see a different picture of these kids some 5-10 years down the track who are very comfortable with what they were born with? It's probable.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by meeneecat

 

Thanks for the link however it did'nt tell me much at all. Transgender and homosexuality are two different things, or are they? Somehow they seem to be cross linked. Both gendas conducting sex changes usually do stay with the same sex when choosing a mate. Most (male) transgenders who do go through a sex change stop short of having his private parts chopped. Of those who do have their genitals removed, a majority eventually end up committing suicide. Of the female transgenders who go through a male sex change, many of them do naturally have children themselves. So, in my opinion, there is clearly a deep seated psychological problem with transgenders rather than the claims they allege they were "born" with it. Born with what other than how they came out naturally as it was meant to be? How many of these transgenders have had a cat scan? Genetic X/Y testing? Thorough long term psychiatric treatment?

edit on 17-4-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

Can you please provide a citation/evidence for the following: "Of those who have their genitals removes a majority eventually end up committing suicide" I have never heard anything like this. I have heard the opposite, that sex change surgeries increase confidence and happiness in those who get them (also to consider is that not all get surgery, some take hormones, and some just get breasts, for everyone it's different).

Also, regarding sexuality and sexual identity, they are two separate things. I will just quote this resource since it pretty much sums it up well:

Sexual orientation” refers to one’s gendered pattern of romantic and/or sexual attraction toward people. You may hear sexual orientations described as heterosexual (primarily directed toward people of the “opposite sex”), homosexual (primarily directed toward people of the “same sex”), and bisexual (directed toward people of “both sexes”). Instead of these clinical-sounding terms, however, people often use words such as straight, gay, lesbian, and bi.

“Gender identity/expression” refers to how people understand and express themselves as women, men, etc. Some people identify with a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth. Such a person may call themselves “transgender” or “trans.”

A transgender or non-transgender person may be attracted to people of their own gender, people of another gender, or both. In this way, sexual orientation and gender identity/expression are separate concepts.

Source

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "genders conducting sex changes usually do stay with the same sex when choosing a mate" again, can you please cite the source for this information, as it is hard to understand what they mean by this. For example, a male who identifies as female and has a male partner would refer to themselves as heterosexual . One study found that the majority of male transgender people (identifying as female) were heterosexual (meaning they, as women, were attracted to men)...this has also been my experience as well, just from the trans people I have known and talked to, many have been straight. They are actually quite insulted when people assume they are "gay" just because they are transgendered. If you really think about it, this makes sense, because in essence they don't want to be known as "transgender" or "transexual" they just want to be the sex that they feel they naturally are and for people to treat them like everyone else. For a female-to-male transgender person, they just want to be seen as a regular male. The female-to-male trans people that I know of are mostly heterosexual as well, meaning they are men who are attracted to women. I hope this make sense. Here's the wikipedia entry on "Transgender Sexuality" which covers some of these concepts...I know it can be confusing at first, so if you have any more questions just ask.

Yeah I wouldn't really worry about this, because any parent who would subject their child to this rubbish deserves their family tree to end.
Long term effects = Darwin wins again.
But then isn't there a pill/injection for everything now (but not cancer or AIDS shhhhh).

[EDIT] Oh and just to add it seems more like a drug for parents who suspect their children might be gay, "take your homophobiotics son!"

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by meeneecat

 

I'm yet to go through all the videos but from what I have seen so far, the parents and carefully chosen doctor are ENABLING these "transgender" kids.

There is no treatment offered to these kids to try to curb these "tendancies" of sorts. But what IF it WAS offered long term? Would we see a different picture of these kids some 5-10 years down the track who are very comfortable with what they were born with? It's probable.

Did you watch? The parents specifically said that they tried forcing their kids to live as the gender in which they were born and it led to all sorts of problems, behavior problems, self esteem problems, even tendencies of self injury and "wanting to die" / suicidiality. The one mother even walked in on her son trying to cut off his penis! There is plenty of intervention that these kids get including years of psychotherapy, no one is forcing this on them, and "enabling" is not the same as "being supportive". I'm not saying that hormones and surgery are for just anyone, definitely not kids with say a mild case of GID, however, we are talking about kids that knew extremely early on and have very distinct and strong feelings about their gender, including all these negative effects that come out of trying to force them into the gender they were born in like suicidality and extreme depression. If your child has GID and is suicidal because of it, you don't force him/her to identify with their birth gender and become even more depressed/suicidal, wouldn't it be best to let the kid live as they want if that is what makes them happy, less depressed and not suicidal?...All this evidence is presented, it seems that you are just choosing to ignore these facts.

Here's another article that has a lot of information...this from medical professionals, that shows that the vast majority of youth that get these hormones and surgery later on have increased happiness and self-esteem.

In this adolescent group, 1 to 5 years after surgery, sex reassignment seems to have been therapeutic and beneficial. SRS has resolved the patients' gender identity problem and enabled them to live in the new gender role in quite an inconspicuous way.

Source

reply to post by AdamsMurmur

I don't know what else to say. I'm completely ashamed to be called "human" because of the path people are choosing to take.

The shame you feel is deserved, but it is not anyone else's doing. You earned it all yourself for your arrogant disregard of how someone else might legitimately feel about themselves.

The fact remains that we are biological organisms, not gods or demons. As such we are imperfect and variable. There is absolutely no point in getting all hysterical about differences between others and yourself, or between them and the "norm".

The only fair and reasonable option is to try and be as understanding as possible when someone else has differences, because in the end only they can know what it feels like to be the way they are.

This is horrible. Our generations are losing touch with and forgetting about their true sexuality and how nature's function of sexuality works.

Some people are maturing much too soon these days, due to all of our degenerative, modern-day life and society, but many also not enough. There's even a very strong emotional/psychological bond to maturing physically.

When we suppress or boost this maturing, we're cheating nature in some way, which may feel nice somehow, but this can most definitely lead to more problems at some point in one's life.

All of these so called negative effects of puberty are absolutely critical for everyone to go through if one seeks to truly know what it is like to live. This is the way we are, we must mature at one point, we must face and get through all kinds of physical, emotional, and psychological obstacles put in our path. Drugs like these, or chemicals in the food and water supply, are not the only things affecting our hormones to go into a state of chaos, but we have also all obtained such a mindset which suppresses and isolates our own true feelings, thoughts, intuitions. Most people grow up hiding a whole side of themselves which never sees the light of day because of programming and fear of not fitting in. Many men don't know what it truly means to be a man anymore, and same goes with many women. This has nothing to do with sexual preference, but actual sexuality, our role in nature.

Originally posted by solargeddon
reply to post by boncho

 

I got 7 out of 10, although the test is pretty useless for me, as I am a girl lol.

Just to add my penny worth, I couldn't imagine the notion of postponing puberty, it is a set time in your life when the world is upside down, and you think you know everything, you learn about the fragility of self esteem, and actually its a pretty abhorrent time in your life, but you are going through it a the same time as everybody else, so there is a common ground between everyone, whether it is realised on an individual level or not.

... except if you are going thru it at the same time as your mates, but you are experiencing it totally differently; then its small comfort. The child who feels out of place with their sexual parts will surely have a more traumatic experience than the one welcoming the changes, you have to admit.

No-one is advocating mutilating any child's body in this endeavor. They are in fact only assisting the delay of such a move to a point in time where hopefully the decision can be made on more reasoned grounds.

It appears this site is a haven for those who are ignorant and bigoted towards the plight of the transgendered.
It is a very real condition with biological factors, not simply psychological. They are the most misunderstood and hated of all people yet the suffer greatly and pose no threat to anyone's life. How can you look at yourself in the mirror when you are so hateful? Is that how you want to be treated? You talk about freedom from oppression, liberty, yet you dehumanize a segment of your human brothers and sisters that are the the butts of one of nature's cruelest jokes; to be born with a body that is not in gender harmony of the brain into a society that dictates who a person can be and how they can express themselves based merely on the physical body. I guess it will still be a long time before many will choose not to be blinded by hate and ignorance at the suffering of human beings who happen to have a different lot in life than you do.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
More insanity from the UK.

As many have said... giving this kind of drugs to kids who don't know what the hell they are is truly disgusting and will screw up many people for their entire lives.

This is a sign of a society run by pedophiles and sickos.

You seem to have a habit of bringing paedophilia into every thread where it doesn't belong. This isn't the first time by a long shot.
Sorry, .... just taking notes.

Meanwhile, this thread is about children being allowed the time to decide for themselves who they are. Nothing more; nothing less. Nothing sinister. Nothing involving adult - child sex. Nothing imposed. Nothing "sicko"

Originally posted by wayno

Originally posted by solargeddon
reply to post by boncho

 

I got 7 out of 10, although the test is pretty useless for me, as I am a girl lol.

Just to add my penny worth, I couldn't imagine the notion of postponing puberty, it is a set time in your life when the world is upside down, and you think you know everything, you learn about the fragility of self esteem, and actually its a pretty abhorrent time in your life, but you are going through it a the same time as everybody else, so there is a common ground between everyone, whether it is realised on an individual level or not.

Just because the experience isn't textbook puberty doesn't make it any less valid, a lot of puberty is one finding their own identity, and it comes with a backdrop of pain and confusion as standard, I don't think anybody benefits from delaying the inevitability of finding who they truely are, I'm not denying their experience isn't a little more challenging, just that its a challenge best undertaken earlier rather than later,.

Puberty isn't just a physical change, its a mental and emmotional growth, how does one grow as an individual if they delay this period, without it, more challenged individuals may never reach a point where they explore their true nature.

I don't want to go through the menopause at some point, but its inevitable, so when it comes along I have to just embrace it, not find a way to put it off, because again it will be a period of growth (and degeneration for the best part) but it has to be done, it may open up perception that I do not have at this point in my life.

reply to post by meeneecat


During a sex change, some male patients keep their private parts intact while others don't; females always get to keep theirs however always do have a masectomy (or breast removal).

Of those males who DO have their private parts removed, many do suicide later down the track whereas suicide among those still with their private parts the suicide rate is alot lower.

I'll have to find the article because I read quite alot.

I guess it depends on which generation you come from; even from mine we did have transgenders and we are now seeing alot more transgender girls (excuse the expression, dikes). Unlike the transgender boys, the transgender girls are almost always offended when using that expression "transgender" to describe them and prefer to just be called gay or lesbian. A woman wearing men's clothing and having men's short hair cuts, acting like men and walking like men....in my opinion are transgender just as men who like to wear women's clothing etc.

You know, plastic surgery does NOT change the inside of your body....yes you can remove bits and pieces but it does'nt change the fact that either you were born male or female. However, I'm open to the idea that there are probably some female babies born with XY cromosomes and male babies born with XX cromosomes. This is not the case with many transgenders. In my opinion, lets say these young children did'nt have cromosome defects as I outlined....they later go through a sex change....find partners of the same sex.....they ARE gay. As for those born with the cromosome defects; I'm open to the fact that a sex reversal is most probably their only option; it gets even more complicated when a aby is born with both male and female body parts but cromosome testing would be automatic.