This is how John McCarthy Roll died (Tuscon Shooting)

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


I get it now, The fact The FBI took over and not leaving up to Tucson PD to handle it, that's right, you are seeing this as a States rights issue, ahh I see it now.

well yes, the state should be the one to do this, the FBI certainly should not have confiscated the gas station surveillance video.

The FBI took lead because a US House of Representatives member was amongst the shot automatically kicks it to the FBI.

If that were the case the FBI would have done the autopsy. Roll was a federal judge, so why no FBI intrusion? Both state and federal are pressing charges actually. No where in the Constitution does it say the federal government has to investigate a case if a government official is killed. That's because the FBI is not in the constitution!

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


Bilderberg Group, Federal Reserve, 9/11, Trilateral Commission, Council On Foriegn Relations, MKULTRA. Shall I go on?

Agreed, so how is it you believe in MKULTRA but can't see this is a classic psy-op lone gunmen MKULTRA operation?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


Bilderberg Group, Federal Reserve, 9/11, Trilateral Commission, Council On Foriegn Relations, MKULTRA. Shall I go on?

You're a 9/11 truther you say, but you have only made one post in your entire ATS career about 9/11 and none in the 9/11 section. So, what part of 9/11 do you think is a conspiracy? Just wondering

Originally posted by IamAbeliever

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
Nowhere does that state he was left there to bleed to death.

I define hemoperitoneum in my opening post, it is essentially bleeding of the internal organs.

He suffered internal bleeding, he was left at the scene, hence he was left at the scene with internal bleeding. No where in the report does it say he died immediately as no time of death was given. If a hospital paramedic declared then it should be on record somewhere.

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Looks like his liver or spleen was punctured and once that happens it's lights out as you are dead within seconds. Those that survived were able to be transported to the hospital.

And there you have it. As I stated in my first post. Perforation of the liver or spleen would cause severe bleeding. Perforation of the aorta would be an almost instant death.

I do agree that the Judge was dead on the scene. May there have been negligence? Probably.
But for the most part, this whole shooting was contrived and an obvious cover up to kill certain political individuals who went against the grain. There were people targeted who had some serious knowledge & judging by the high moral caliber of the judge and congresswoman + NASA husband, an example needed to be made.

If the truth were exposed, all of society would be destabilized overnight. No more governements. Just roving packs of vigilantes.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


I get it now, The fact The FBI took over and not leaving up to Tucson PD to handle it, that's right, you are seeing this as a States rights issue, ahh I see it now.

well yes, the state should be the one to do this, the FBI certainly should not have confiscated the gas station surveillance video.

The FBI took lead because a US House of Representatives member was amongst the shot automatically kicks it to the FBI.

If that were the case the FBI would have done the autopsy. Roll was a federal judge, so why no FBI intrusion? Both state and federal are pressing charges actually. No where in the Constitution does it say the federal government has to investigate a case if a government official is killed. That's because the FBI is not in the constitution!

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Don't have so much trust in what big media force feeds you about right and wrong. When good FBI agents do their job, they end up at the end of a CIA plot to shut them up. I.E.- Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, Building # 7 (SEC Offices), Office of Naval Investigation @ Pentagon.

What you need to desperately grab on to is that these sacrifical lambs are for the greater good of the majority- even if that majority is simply a small minority to carry on the human species.

reply to post by DONTBEIGNORANT


The "greater good" is gun legislation, so the people will be blessed with the "greater good" of being unarmed, to fend for themselves against criminals with guns.

Originally posted by Getsmart
Hi Filosophia,


Thanks for posting this information about Judge Roll's injuries. Too many things are bizarre in this case, the NASA Twin Astronaut connection, the Gun Ban legislation, the Mexican Cartels running drugs through Tucson for the CIA, the 9/11 sacrificial death of Christina Green, the fact that Giffords's doctors and Jared Loughner's friends are actually actors, the fact that Christina Green's mother is actually a Police Officer, the fact that several people involved were part of Cornell's College on Human Ecology implicated in CIA Mind Control programming, and as you so justly point out, that they left the victims on location for the better part of half a day. Add to this the fact that all video footage was censored, that the trial and mugshots show multiple Jared's, that the court appointed defense attorney is the CIA's lead specialist in framing patsies, and you've got quite the brain frack.


Cheers,


Getsmart

Would you be so kind as to source any one of the facts that you've presented in the above post? I can't seem to find any reliable sources.

Thanks in advance,

Eleph

reply to post by Elepheagle


while I can't speak for Getsmart, here is a link to one of those claims

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Here is another link by a senator saying they need gun legislation immediately

www.huffingtonpost.com...

While there is no legislation on its way just yet, they are pushing for it. I'm sure after the trial it will be pushed even harder (they can't do it before he is convicted although we know they want to

reply to post by filosophia


Let's just say that neither you or I, at this juncture, can prove or disprove that this man's death was due to negligence by anyone. Let's be honest. You and I weren't there so anything either one of us says is purely speculation, regardless of what side of the argument we are on. Can we at least agree on that part?

Now, as for conspiracies, and these clearly are just my opinion. Do I think Loughner was possibly an MK/Ultra type assassin, it's very possible. He was way too calm during all of this. Either that or the dude really is simply bat$hit crazy. I do think his mugshot was photoshopped to make him look as insane as possible, and now, thanks to the MSM, anything that comes out of this guys mouth is going to be chalked up as insanity.

Further, I believe that there is a huge cover-up in NASA as to what all these strange anomalies are that get caught on video during the shuttle missions. If you look, Giffords astronaut husband just so happened to be on one of these missions. I personally believe that he told Rep. Giffords a little more than he should have about something he witnessed up there and she needed to be "dealt with" because of this knowledge.

I don't think Judge Roll was a target for the simple fact that he wasn't even supposed to be there. Did they "let" him die? No one knows that at this point. At least no one on this site.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


Bilderberg Group, Federal Reserve, 9/11, Trilateral Commission, Council On Foriegn Relations, MKULTRA. Shall I go on?

Agreed, so how is it you believe in MKULTRA but can't see this is a classic psy-op lone gunmen MKULTRA operation?

A classic sign of an MKULTRA candidate is the fact post event they are very docile and are not violent post incident hence how he could not be MKULTRA. Mark Chapman never made an attempt to either flee or to hide the gun and stood there until cops arrived.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


Bilderberg Group, Federal Reserve, 9/11, Trilateral Commission, Council On Foriegn Relations, MKULTRA. Shall I go on?

Agreed, so how is it you believe in MKULTRA but can't see this is a classic psy-op lone gunmen MKULTRA operation?

A classic sign of an MKULTRA candidate is the fact post event they are very docile and are not violent post incident hence how he could not be MKULTRA. Mark Chapman never made an attempt to either flee or to hide the gun and stood there until cops arrived.

edit on 14-4-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

Eye witnesses said he seemed distant and removed, in his mugshots he has a twisted smirk, in court he smiles so much the judge thinks he is insane. That sounds very much like a twisted mind controlled individual, not every MKULTRA has to be the exact same.

reply to post by IamAbeliever


well allow me to explain why Judge Roll not being there may be a cover story. First they say that he was just taking a stroll and did not plan on being there, which worried federal prosecutors because this meant they could not prosecute this death if he was not on official business. However, the counts against Loughner say that the judge was on official business (graphics8.nytimes.com...) Count 5 of the charges. It also says that Loughner killed him with premeditation.

So that means the charges against Loughner are contradicting the official story.

Then, notice how in the video reenactments Roll dives in front of Barber, as if to further indicate that Roll was not the intended target of the shooting, again, contradicting the charges against Loughner. (and how can you seriously trust an animated reenactment of the event?)

Roll was also a judge that believed illegal immigrants do not have the right to travel through the United States, so he was pro-immigration laws, meaning there is a reason the elite wanted to get rid of him. I'm not saying he was the sole target, as there are multiple layers to this story, but let's face it, Giffords, the supposed target, is still alive (or so they say) yet Roll died. The media's initial silence on the subject of Roll was what made me curious, and now this cover story of jumping in front of Barber on an animated video and the charges conflicting with the official story makes me question the nature of Roll and maybe it was not so coincidental. Maybe I'm wrong, who cares, this is a conspiracy website right? I'll admit I'm wrong if I'm wrong I have no qualms about that.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

A Glock 9mm does have some kickback and with a bullet top speed of 681.8 mph it has enough force that it will spin someone.

Only in the movies.
In real life, the physics won't allow it, unless the kickback from the gun is powerful enough to also spin the person firing the gun.

Here is something interesting from Jesse Ventura's new book: 63 government documents

Abdominal wounds were once nearly always mortal, but modern medical treatment has made this no longer true.

So a government document on assassination says that medical treatment prevents an abdominal wound from being mortal, but when medical treatment is not given it is sure death.

Originally posted by Oaktree
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

A Glock 9mm does have some kickback and with a bullet top speed of 681.8 mph it has enough force that it will spin someone.

Only in the movies.
In real life, the physics won't allow it, unless the kickback from the gun is powerful enough to also spin the person firing the gun.

No it does not because of the training most get on that particular peice.

Hence why you never see a LEO drop to the ground when they fire because they know how to correctly stand to ground the recoil and kickback.

Originally posted by filosophia
Here is something interesting from Jesse Ventura's new book: 63 government documents

Abdominal wounds were once nearly always mortal, but modern medical treatment has made this no longer true.

So a government document on assassination says that medical treatment prevents an abdominal wound from being mortal, but when medical treatment is not given it is sure death.

The wound he refers to is that of a superficial one and does not take into account the severing of any major aorta's. When your aorta is sliced clean through you are dead within seconds and there ain't nothing anyone can do for you. Hence why when you get your jugglar vien cut you have literately 10 seconds to take your opponent out before you die. Both are declared as fatal and mortal injuries.

Originally posted by filosophia
Here is something interesting from Jesse Ventura's new book: 63 government documents

Abdominal wounds were once nearly always mortal, but modern medical treatment has made this no longer true.

So a government document on assassination says that medical treatment prevents an abdominal wound from being mortal, but when medical treatment is not given it is sure death.

Oh, Filo, there is a huge difference between an abdominal wound and having ones' aorta pierced. A "simple" abdominal wound may perforate ones' bowels, in which case stool would then be leaked into the abdominal cavity. If not treated, over time a person would develop sepsis from the bacteria in that stool. I have seen this, it's a horrible death. Thanks to modern medicine, more precisely, antibiotics, we are able to treat these people where as in times past it was an almost certain death sentence.

I sincerely wish you would do some research on human anatomy & physiology, as I believe you would then realize how ridiculous your claim is that they let this man bleed to death on a sidewalk outside of Safeway. I can assure you that even if he had been shot and fallen into the back of a waiting ambulance, with a pierced aorta there was no saving this man.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Well, I have been shooting a Glock 17 for over twenty years, and have had several of the 4 generations of Glock 17, yet have never once been inclined to spin around, due to recoil.

On another note, I have shot many deer with much more powerful rounds, .308 and 30.06, and have never once had a deer spin around or fly through the air through a plate glass window, aka movie style.

A short study of Newton's Law of Motions will explain it further.

Originally posted by Oaktree
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Well, I have been shooting a Glock 17 for over twenty years, and have had several of the 4 generations of Glock 17, yet have never once been inclined to spin around, due to recoil.

On another note, I have shot many deer with much more powerful rounds, .308 and 30.06, and have never once had a deer spin around or fly through the air through a plate glass window, aka movie style.

A short study of Newton's Law of Motions will explain it further.

Since more then likely have been around guns your entire life and are incredibly well trained in how to properly use and hold a weapon to prevent recoil. Someone who does not know how to correctly hold a gun while it is firing would get knocked right on their tail.

There is no conspiracy here.