This is how John McCarthy Roll died (Tuscon Shooting)

According to the autopsy reports from the Pima County Sheriff's Office, under Arizona law being public information, John McCarthy Roll, the federal judge slain in Arizona, suffered a blunt impact to the head in addition to a gunshot wound to the torso.

On all of the autopsy reports for all of the victims, the forensic pathologist arrived at the scene at 5:45 PM on Jan. 8. The shooting took place at 10:10 AM. That means the victims were left on the scene for almost 8 hours, without being taken to the hospital.

The autopsy report states that Roll died from a gunshot wound to the lower torso. But how does one die from a gunshot wound to the torso? Through internal bleeding.

Roll suffered hemoperitoneum according to the autopsy report, which is defined as

"the presence of blood in the peritoneal cavity. The blood accumulates in the space between the inner lining of the abdominal wall and the internal abdominal organs."

en.wikipedia.org...

So in other words, internal bleeding. Wikipedia also states that it is a medical emergency and if treatment is not sought, death is the result.

So, John McCarthy Roll was 'murdered' by Jared Loughner, eh? More like shot in the back, then hit in the head, then left to internally bleed at the scene of the crime for 8 hours!

Hi Filosophia,


Thanks for posting this information about Judge Roll's injuries. Too many things are bizarre in this case, the NASA Twin Astronaut connection, the Gun Ban legislation, the Mexican Cartels running drugs through Tucson for the CIA, the 9/11 sacrificial death of Christina Green, the fact that Giffords's doctors and Jared Loughner's friends are actually actors, the fact that Christina Green's mother is actually a Police Officer, the fact that several people involved were part of Cornell's College on Human Ecology implicated in CIA Mind Control programming, and as you so justly point out, that they left the victims on location for the better part of half a day. Add to this the fact that all video footage was censored, that the trial and mugshots show multiple Jared's, that the court appointed defense attorney is the CIA's lead specialist in framing patsies, and you've got quite the brain frack.


Cheers,


Getsmart

It's very easy to get shot in the back and knock your head on the concrete below thus causing the blunt force injury. Say, I use the wrestling move called "The Spear" on you right, my target area would be upper stomache/lower chest and the impact would send you back knocking the back of your head into whatever is standing behind you.

Dude was probally shot, the force of the shot spun him around so violently that it took him a couple of spins to hit the ground and if you hit the ground head first with that kind of momentum your skull would be the first to make contact with the ground because your hands would be clutching your abdomen.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
It's very easy to get shot in the back and knock your head on the concrete below thus causing the blunt force injury.

Fact : he was hit by 9mm bullets.

Now I may be wrong, but 9mm doesn't make you fly around the room like in the movies.

Something definitely stinks.

As one poster already stated, the blunt force trauma probably came from his head hitting the concrete. It was a chaotic scene, obviously, and it could have been caused by any number of things.

As far as the gun shot wound to the abdomen, there is no evidence that states he was left there to bleed to death without being transported to the hospital. I'm sure death came quick for this man. There are many vital organs in that area, many of them highly vascular--liver, spleen--and let's not forget that if the bullet struck his aorta he would have been dead before he even hit the ground.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
It's very easy to get shot in the back and knock your head on the concrete below thus causing the blunt force injury.

Fact : he was hit by 9mm bullets.

Now I may be wrong, but 9mm doesn't make you fly around the room like in the movies.

Something definitely stinks.

edit on 14-4-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

A Glock 9mm does have some kickback and with a bullet top speed of 681.8 mph it has enough force that it will spin someone.

Originally posted by IamAbeliever


As far as the gun shot wound to the abdomen, there is no evidence that states he was left there to bleed to death without being transported to the hospital.

actually there is evidence, it's called the autopsy report, and it states the body was left at the scene until 5:45 PM and was not brought to the hospital immediately after the shooting.

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
As one poster already stated, the blunt force trauma probably came from his head hitting the concrete. It was a chaotic scene, obviously, and it could have been caused by any number of things.

As far as the gun shot wound to the abdomen, there is no evidence that states he was left there to bleed to death without being transported to the hospital. I'm sure death came quick for this man. There are many vital organs in that area, many of them highly vascular--liver, spleen--and let's not forget that if the bullet struck his aorta he would have been dead before he even hit the ground.

Either him hitting his head on concrete or seeing how chaotic the scene was means people panicked and started trampling one another, the shot was probably strike one and him getting his skull kicked in by a panicked person could also be a contributing factor.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by IamAbeliever


As far as the gun shot wound to the abdomen, there is no evidence that states he was left there to bleed to death without being transported to the hospital.

actually there is evidence, it's called the autopsy report, and it states the body was left at the scene until 5:45 PM and was not brought to the hospital immediately after the shooting.

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Which means he was already dead before the crowd was cleared out and certain rules state to leave a deceased person where they lie until the investigation unit arrives.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by IamAbeliever


As far as the gun shot wound to the abdomen, there is no evidence that states he was left there to bleed to death without being transported to the hospital.

actually there is evidence, it's called the autopsy report, and it states the body was left at the scene until 5:45 PM and was not brought to the hospital immediately after the shooting.

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Which means he was already dead before the crowd was cleared out and certain rules state to leave a deceased person where they lie until the investigation unit arrives.

that's speculation, the autopsy report does not mention time of death.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by IamAbeliever


As far as the gun shot wound to the abdomen, there is no evidence that states he was left there to bleed to death without being transported to the hospital.

actually there is evidence, it's called the autopsy report, and it states the body was left at the scene until 5:45 PM and was not brought to the hospital immediately after the shooting.

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Which means he was already dead before the crowd was cleared out and certain rules state to leave a deceased person where they lie until the investigation unit arrives.

that's speculation, the autopsy report does not mention time of death.

No speculation because if there was a chance he could've been saved make no mistake he would've been on one of the first 3 ambulances that responded to the scene but since he wasn't transported until after everything was cleared out he was dead by the time they got everyone cleared out.

as for the 9 mm bullet, the autopsy report only states this of the bullets recovered (very few):

The bullet is of medium caliber, fully jacketed, and minimally deformed

The forensic pathologist arrived at 5:45 PM on Jan 8 at the Safeway Shopping Center the same day as the shooting. Meaning the body was not taken to the hospital. It says later that the body was removed to the Office of the Medical examiner for examination.

This means he was not taken to the hospital.

If someone in your family was shot in the back, would you at least want them to be taken to the hospital? The shot was to the lower back, he was an old man, but I'm sure internally bleeding for 8 hours didn't help.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by IamAbeliever


As far as the gun shot wound to the abdomen, there is no evidence that states he was left there to bleed to death without being transported to the hospital.

actually there is evidence, it's called the autopsy report, and it states the body was left at the scene until 5:45 PM and was not brought to the hospital immediately after the shooting.

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Ok, the body was left at the scene. To me this would indicate he was already dead and his body was not moved from the scene until 5:45pm. Nowhere does that state he was left there to bleed to death. Prior to becoming a Registred Nurse I was a Paramedic and have been on many homicide scenes. The body is not moved until the investigation is complete. I am not at all surprised that this man was left there for that amount of time.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


everything you said was speculation based on how you think hospitals would save every last person if possible. Show me evidence that a doctor or an emergency response medic said this. No time of death was given for Roll, there is no way you can be sure that he died immediately after the shooting.

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
Nowhere does that state he was left there to bleed to death.

I define hemoperitoneum in my opening post, it is essentially bleeding of the internal organs.

He suffered internal bleeding, he was left at the scene, hence he was left at the scene with internal bleeding. No where in the report does it say he died immediately as no time of death was given. If a hospital paramedic declared then it should be on record somewhere.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
Nowhere does that state he was left there to bleed to death.

I define hemoperitoneum in my opening post, it is essentially bleeding of the internal organs.

He suffered internal bleeding, he was left at the scene, hence he was left at the scene with internal bleeding. No where in the report does it say he died immediately as no time of death was given. If a hospital paramedic declared then it should be on record somewhere.

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Looks like his liver or spleen was punctured and once that happens it's lights out as you are dead within seconds. Those that survived were able to be transported to the hospital.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
As one poster already stated, the blunt force trauma probably came from his head hitting the concrete. It was a chaotic scene, obviously, and it could have been caused by any number of things.

As far as the gun shot wound to the abdomen, there is no evidence that states he was left there to bleed to death without being transported to the hospital. I'm sure death came quick for this man. There are many vital organs in that area, many of them highly vascular--liver, spleen--and let's not forget that if the bullet struck his aorta he would have been dead before he even hit the ground.

Either him hitting his head on concrete or seeing how chaotic the scene was means people panicked and started trampling one another, the shot was probably strike one and him getting his skull kicked in by a panicked person could also be a contributing factor.

Precisely. This was my exact thought when I said any number of things. It's very possible somebody stepped on this man's head while trying to flee the scene.

The Hemoperitoneum is grouping of internal organs that runs from the diaphram to the rectum.

2.bp.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
Nowhere does that state he was left there to bleed to death.

I define hemoperitoneum in my opening post, it is essentially bleeding of the internal organs.

He suffered internal bleeding, he was left at the scene, hence he was left at the scene with internal bleeding. No where in the report does it say he died immediately as no time of death was given. If a hospital paramedic declared then it should be on record somewhere.

edit on 14-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Looks like his liver or spleen was punctured and once that happens it's lights out as you are dead within seconds. Those that survived were able to be transported to the hospital.

And there you have it. As I stated in my first post. Perforation of the liver or spleen would cause severe bleeding. Perforation of the aorta would be an almost instant death.