This is how John McCarthy Roll died (Tuscon Shooting)

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

www.fbi.gov...

Okay this proves the FBI has a lab but nowhere does it mention the Tucson shooting. This is just a front page of an FBI site, there is no pertinent information whatsoever to the Tucson shooting.

THIS PROVES EVERYTHING, THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIONS FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST AND EVIDENCE RESPONSE TEAMS WAS ON SCENE. This is not speculation but this is how it goes and does not care if you or I like it or think this is how it goes, once FBI is on scene it's their show and scene.

FBI officials on scene :
media.sacbee.com...

FBI official investigating a chair :
www.capecodonline.com... 0213163000

Filo,

To copy a thread from another forum onto here is plagarism.

Who is defrauding who?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Filo,

To copy a thread from another forum onto here is plagarism.

Who is defrauding who?

plagiarism: The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's

Sorry, but ATS can't rewrite the definition of plaigarism, and if what you said was true you wouldn't be able to copy any work from any website. You truly are just out to get me, aren't you? What a waste of time.

I'm the author, so I would be plagiarizing myself, and since that's impossible, it's not plagiarism. Do you get it or should I explain it to you another way?

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

www.fbi.gov...

Okay this proves the FBI has a lab but nowhere does it mention the Tucson shooting. This is just a front page of an FBI site, there is no pertinent information whatsoever to the Tucson shooting.

It would not have a mention of it.

FBI Director Robert Mueller was on scene after Obama ordered The FBI to takeover the case.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

www.fbi.gov...

Okay this proves the FBI has a lab but nowhere does it mention the Tucson shooting. This is just a front page of an FBI site, there is no pertinent information whatsoever to the Tucson shooting.

It would not have a mention of it.

FBI Director Robert Mueller was on scene after Obama ordered The FBI to takeover the case.

Oh, so Robert Mueller did the autopsy

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


guess what? You just quoted my work without giving quotes to it. Now that is plagiarism.

Reported.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

www.fbi.gov...

Okay this proves the FBI has a lab but nowhere does it mention the Tucson shooting. This is just a front page of an FBI site, there is no pertinent information whatsoever to the Tucson shooting.

It would not have a mention of it.

FBI Director Robert Mueller was on scene after Obama ordered The FBI to takeover the case.

Oh, so Robert Mueller did the autopsy

No, but everywhere that he travels to especially crime scenes he brings a group of FBI investigators and forensic pathologists. The FBI Forensic Pathologist on scene has the authourity to declare someone dead.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

guess what? You just quoted my work without giving quotes to it. Now that is plagiarism.

Reported.

I credited GodLike Productions for the text and not you as it is a copy and paste job from their site.

sorry, that's not how copy righting works. While they have the right to post my work because I volunteered to publish on there the reason is simple: because if someone were to post something from foxnews, then it would belong to GLP and thus GLP would be shut down.

why don't you check again to make sure I am still plagiarizing my own work

more info on this shooting:

www.thegovernmentrag.com...

wellaware1.com...

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


No, but everywhere that he travels to especially crime scenes he brings a group of FBI investigators and forensic pathologists. The FBI Forensic Pathologist on scene has the authourity to declare someone dead.

And you can not tell me the name of the FBI pathologist at the scene.

You are using Argument ad convention, meaning if something is conventionally done, it must always be done.

ex:

The FBI investigates a murder scene, thus, the FBI declared the death of John Roll.

It's plausible, except you are missing that little thing called evidence. Thus, it's speculation, nothing more.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


FBI officials on scene :
media.sacbee.com...

and notice how they're just standing around? I didn't ask for if the FBI was on the scene, I knew that because the autopsy report says so, I'm asking for which FBI member declared Roll to be dead. I noticed your two pictures didn't show that.

After reading through 3 pages of this post I have to ask OP what exactly are you trying to prove? The autopsy report you linked to clearly states the man was shot through the aorta, which likely meant instant death. The report also included the fact that he had signs of having hit his head, but that was not described as contributing to his death. I'm sure you can see how one might collapse to the ground after getting shot in such a vital place?

What exactly is your conspiracy in this? That someone came along after the shooting with a billy club and beat the victims on the head? I'm sure you can appreciate the absurdity of that scenario.

As far as him still being there 7.5 hours after the shooting, it's obvious from the links provided by Immaculate that the FBI was on the scene and investigating the shooting, and the judge was not the only one dead at the scene to be left there, you yourself posted about the other deceased victims that remained at the scene for 7.5 hours.

In the words of the doctor who performed the autopsy:

Dr. Bruce Parks, the Pima County medical examiner, said the reports were public documents, and he distributed them to the news media.

The wounds were varied. Some victims were hit more than once, and the pathologist noted that some also had other injuries to their heads and hands from falling to the ground.

But one thing was common to all six victims. “The manner of death,” the pathologist said again and again, “is certified as homicide.” - Tucson Autopsy Reports Are Released

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


FBI officials on scene :
media.sacbee.com...

and notice how they're just standing around? I didn't ask for if the FBI was on the scene, I knew that because the autopsy report says so, I'm asking for which FBI member declared Roll to be dead. I noticed your two pictures didn't show that.

The id of the pathologist is classified as he is not allowed to talk about an open case.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
The autopsy report you linked to clearly states the man was shot through the aorta, which likely meant instant death.

Plausible, but this is speculation. Giffords was shot in the face but did not have instant death. If you really read all the pages on this thread, you'd know that my question remains the same: who pronounced the victims on the scene dead? The FBI? But who? A name, not a picture of FBI agents mulling around. And I don't believe Robert Mueller personally did it.

Until you find me solid evidence which states the time of death, it could very well be possible that he died of internal bleeding rather than immediate death caused by rupture of the aorta. I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong, that he could have had instantaneous death even though the gunshot wound was to the lower back, but can you admit that you could be wrong, considering you are just speculating that he died instantaneously, that perhaps he was left to bleed and therefore died of internal bleeding?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1


The id of the pathologist is classified as he is not allowed to talk about an open case.

But of course you already know the facts even though it's classified, right? Argument ad convention. The FBI does a good job, therefore they did everything right.

This is absurd. Did the man bleed to death? More than likely. Was he left there to bleed to death for hours? Helll no. Several of us have stated that if his aorta was pierced he would have been dead within a matter of seconds.

Thsi obviously was a chaotic scene. Rep. Giffords was even reported dead at one point. Thankfully, those reports turned out to be false. I truly don't believe there is any wrongdoing on the part of any first responders, pathologists, FBI Agents, etc. concerning this man's death.

Filo, no one is disputing that he had blood in his abdomen, or that he bled to death. What we are disputing is the time it took him to die. You yourself have shown documentation that his aorta was pierced. Can you agree that this would cause almost instantaneous death?

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
Can you agree that this would cause almost instantaneous death?

It could, but so can a gunshot wound to the head. I want the truth, based on evidence, not speculation. Is it a crime to be talking about this? If it wasn't for this thread, would you know the circumstances of Roll's death? Here is an NPR article on the triage performed after the scene of the crime

www.npr.org...

Nowhere does it mention John McCarthy Roll. Type in his name, it won't come up. We heard how the nine year old girl was killed, and how Giffords is recovering. So what about the other victims? Why haven't we been told who pronounced them dead? Why haven't we seen video of it? Oh, that's right, because the trial isn't over yet, I guess I'll just have to wait till September, or 2013

Yes, you are correct, a gunshot wound to the head can cause death. Hell, any gunshot wound can for that matter. But it is only luck that the bullet that hit Rep. Giffords in the head didn't cause her death. In both cases I am sure it's only a matter of centimeters that could have changed the outcome for both of these people.

Until this goes to trial and all the witnesses have taken the stand, I think that all any of us can do with what evidence we have is speculate.