Poll: 4 in 10 Southerners Still Side With Confederacy

Yeah I was raised in the South. I'm not surprised by these results. My father is an educated man, and when I was in grade school he always taught me the real story of the Civil War. My direct paternal great-great-great grandfather was a Confederate doctor in the Civil War. He owned house slaves just like the other wealthy Southerners. When the War came, he did his duty to help the injured and sick in the South. After the War, the North took all of his assets and he was left with literally nothing. His son grew up to become a sharecropper, as did his son and his son (my grandfather). Three generations of poverty until finally my grandfather went to college after Korea to become a rocket chemist.

None of us are racist. I was taught from a very young age that no matter what I heard, Blacks were just like us. They were equal. Being taught this from childhood ingrained it into my psyche. Yes, there were a lot of racists in my town and county, but there were also a lot of intelligent people who knew that racism was ignorant and wrong. When I was in school one year we were studying the Civil War. My teacher asked everyone what they thought the War was about. Almost everyone said "slavery" or "slaves". A couple of people including myself said something along the lines of "states rights" or "Southern independence". All of the people who said "slavery" were confused, because they had never heard about this part of it. The thing is, the government wrote the history books that the South studied in school, and unless someone who knew better told them differently, people believed that the War was all about slaves. I had a very smart history teacher that year, and she informed her class that the War was not about slavery. She was the only teacher I ever had who did that, and you can see why so many Southerners might think that the War was actually about slaves. Most of them can't even tell you why.

"What was the Civil War fought over."
"Slavery, of course."
"What about slavery?"
"Uh, I guess the North wanted to free the slaves and the South didn't want them to? I dunno."

You can see that the intelligent information ended before it began. That is what most ignorant people will tell you about the Civil War. And it is simply not truth.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Juston

 

I haven't read through, but in our current economic times, and the over-bearing, over-spending, over-taxing, over-regulating Federal government.........how can less than half the people empathize with the Confederacy?

History is written by the winner that is how.

The Confederacy is associated with human rights violations. Too bad the Yanks had even more to their name and were just better at hiding it. Nobody really hears about what the north did to the Irish when they came here. Nobody really watches how the west used Chinese workers worse than slaves, and above all nobody really still associates what the north did to to the Native Americans.

Human rights violations were across the board the Confederacy simply wasn't Machiavellian enough about it and got the short stick.

This is why the poll would be low in my opinion.

I wouldn't want to see the confederacy return but I also want to see the current government change. I think the solution to our problems isn't to cling to any old ideal outside of the Constitution. And only that because by its nature we can amend it to match how we want our country to look.

Originally posted by Jinglelord
. Too bad the Yanks had even more to their name and were just better at hiding it. Nobody really hears about what the north did to the Irish when they came here. Nobody really watches how the west used Chinese workers worse than slaves, and above all nobody really still associates what the north did to to the Native Americans.

Thats a different side of american culture though...I think new migrations of people go through a hazing process for awhile
The irish had to deal with it, the italians, the spanish,the chinese, the japanese, etc.. now its the mexicans going through the process (and muslims).

Not a very good trait, but it starts and ends pretty much the same way...anger, rage, segregation, acceptance, new holidays and good food.

Now an irish man, or italian, or chinese etc is simply considered american after a generation or two is born in the country with a new ethnic group targetted by everyone not currently under the scope. (yes, even the former hated ethnic group participates...meh, tradition)

Wanted to ad, when there is no new ethnic group, a different religious group works as a perfect substitute...be it catholics, protestants, jews, or currently muslims.

reply to post by OrphenFire

In Tennessee when reconstruction started my great great grandfather had 3000 acres of land confiscated. Turning him into a share cropper on land he once owned. If you read the history of Gov.Parson Brownlow it's enough to make you sick.Under the reign of the Federal appointees the black people suffered more hardship than they endured under slavery. History books won't bring that issue to light.
Our taught history is far more indoctrination than truth !!

Originally posted by Juston
I really, honestly wonder as to why 38 percent sympathize with the Confederacy. Is it pride? Racism? Ignorance? I'm not saying that they have no right, rather I'm just curious.

It's because it stood for states' rights and de-centralization of power aside from just being all about slavery. Most Southerners didn't own slaves and were poor people who only understood the the Northern states were invading their home states with armies. It was still taught at that time that states had the right to secede peacefully from the union, so states invading each other was unheard of and is the sole reason about half of the Confederate states seceded in the first place.

Slavery was an extremely unfortunate problem obviously, but it was a problem with the whole country and not just the South. Racism was present everywhere, even Lincoln was a racist. And Jefferson Davis intended to dismantle the institution of slavery in the South because he knew it couldn't last. History is written by the winners but the fact of the matter is that it wasn't just a black and white issue, literally.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Very true; which furthers my point that the confederate states definitely did not have a corner on human rights violations. I agree that it is a process, but that doesn't make the process right and to my mind negates the whole "We're better than you because we treat people well" argument.

America lives far from her ideals, and it seems the closer we get to treating everyone equally the closer we get to treating everyone equally bad...

Originally posted by DarkKnight76
I mean you do realize that the Southern states get more federal assistance per capita than most other states, AND pay the least into the system.

Good, keep paying us. It's the least you can do for burning our capitals down several times and killing 1 out of 5 adult males, just to force us to put up with the federal government's reckless stupidity (and they were just as racist at the time, so don't start). Maybe we're trying to get you to finally "let us go."


Here's a good read:

www.georgiacsa.com...


Lincoln in 1858:

In his reply to Stephen Douglas on 18 September 1858, scarcely five years
before he issued his celebrated Emancipation Proclamation and altered the
course of the war to an attack on Southern slavery as a calculated "war
measure" to cripple the "enemy," Lincoln stated:

I will say... that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about,
in any way, a social and political equality of the White and Black races,
that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of
Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with White
people.

It is not widely known that the Southern state of Virginia was the very
first political body in the entire world to enact legislation to end the
slave trade. On 5 October 1778, the General Assembly passed "An act for
preventing the further importation of slaves," in which "any slave brought
into the state contrary to the law would be then and forevermore free." In
keeping with such opposition to the wickedness of the slave trade, the
Constitution of the Confederate States of 1861 permanently abolished the
practice in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1. Confederate President Jefferson
Davis made clear his plans for the infant country when he stated, "The slave
must be made fit for his freedom by education and discipline and thus be
made unfit for slavery."

It was Davis' prediction that slavery "will eventually be lost"; it had
outlived its usefulness and would inevitably die a natural death. Although
there were indeed some who believed that the natural condition of the Black
man was servitude, the prevailing opinion in the South was that of gradual
emancipation. Some Southern leaders, such as General Robert Edward Lee, were
wholly opposed to African slavery.

Don't take my word for it. You can check it all out yourself. I did some quick Google searches myself and found specific sources and references for the quotes.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by DarkKnight76
I mean you do realize that the Southern states get more federal assistance per capita than most other states, AND pay the least into the system.

Good, keep paying us. It's the least you can do for burning our capitals down several times and killing 1 out of 5 adult males, just to force us to put up with the federal government's reckless stupidity. Maybe we're trying to get you to finally "let us go."

Sorry, erm...how old are you?

Unless you personally were alive pre-1861, then your mindset is that of a child...

The same reason blacks should not be given extra stuff is the same reason why southerners should not be given extra stuff.
ancient history mate.

Does Italy pay out to half the world due to ancient rome destroying and enslaving nations?
Does Greece pay egypt for ancient greek conquests?

thats pretty pathetic thinking...again, unless your like 150 years old, then your just talking crap.

Even as jest, the mindset is pretty disgusting and reflects very poorly on the side you represent...no, southerners in general are not big babies like you.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Sorry, erm...how old are you?

Unless you personally were alive pre-1861, then your mindset is that of a child...

The same reason blacks should not be given extra stuff is the same reason why southerners should not be given extra stuff.
ancient history mate.

You're complaining about people living off welfare and your tax money?

Well that's ironic, because we didn't want to be a part of your union at all in the 1860s, and I still don't want to be a part of your union!

So if you think the South deserves to eat through so much of your tax money, then what are you going to do about it? Maybe we can reach some kind of agreement here?

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Sorry, erm...how old are you?

Unless you personally were alive pre-1861, then your mindset is that of a child...

The same reason blacks should not be given extra stuff is the same reason why southerners should not be given extra stuff.
ancient history mate.

You're complaining about people living off welfare and your tax money?

Well that's ironic, because we didn't want to be a part of your union at all in the 1860s, and I still don't want to be a part of your union!

So if you think the South deserves to eat through so much of your tax money, then what are you going to do about it? Maybe we can reach some kind of agreement here?

Sure, ya...get your ass to work...hows that for an agreement.
and I am currently in florida...more southbound than your lazy arse is..now get a education and job you backwoods hillbilly!

Oh, and good luck in trying to find a girlfriend with that attitude
"Ya, I live in my moms basement because I am angry at Lincoln...so, wanna go on a date? maybe you can pay for some tacos.."

Loser mentality is sickening...have some pride for christs sake, get off your momma's teet and stand like a man.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Sure, ya...get your ass to work...hows that for an agreement.

I don't personally live off your tax money, but my point is that I don't give a damn if people do, because no one wastes money better in the first place than your federal government itself. The feds are the ones who created welfare in the first place. So don't cry to me about it for wanting to be separate from all your government problems that you apparently love to have.

and I am currently in florida...more southbound than your lazy arse is..

I used to live in Orlando.

That doesn't mean anything. Even the Brit Stephen Fry realizes you guys are more Yankee than Southern:

Oh, and good luck in trying to find a girlfriend with that attitude

So what, I should try to find a girlfriend by asking her to pay for everything for me? Is that what you're saying? Because I'm with you brother, I think welfare is stupid, but the MASSIVE point you seem to not be able to grasp is WELFARE IS A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PROGRAM!!

Loser mentality is sickening...have some pride for christs sake, get off your momma's teet and stand like a man.

Grow up man and stop whining, I support my own damned self.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I think welfare is stupid, but the MASSIVE point you seem to not be able to grasp is WELFARE IS A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PROGRAM!!

Nothing is wrong with welfare when it is approprated correctly. You were portraying an angle that you are basically sitting back and enjoying as much as possible (because as we know, welfare is glamourous).

Abusing the system is never a good thing...welfare is great when its used as a tool to catch you before you sink to the bottom, but must also be a tool to get you back on a ladder to go up. There are plenty whom fall down, get caught by the net, and simply stay there...

I will never condemn someone currently needing assistance...unless your truely privledged in life, then chances are there will be a moment or two in your life where you do need a bit of help..if not from the government, then from mom and dad...fine...great...thats part of society...but use it for a foothold, not a hammock

reply to post by kro32


How can you study history so extensively and yet be so ignorant of what you are "learning"?
Why do you people keep missing the whole point of the slavery issue? Why can't you understand that slavery issue was used as a legal means to secede from the union?
Why can't you understand lincoln and his kind did everything they could to destroy the Confederate states' economies so they could force them to sell their crops at rock bottom prices?
Why can't you understand that plantations had highest support for secession because they where the one's being targeted directly by lincoln's economic terrorism and not because they wanted slaves?
Why can't you understand that the union's navy blockaded Confederate vessels so they couldn't trade with anybody but the union at their demanded prices?
Why can't you understand this country has been run unconstitutionally since the war and is the reason this country is under corporate, banker and foreign control?

Some good debate in this thread, a little heated at times but for the most part, from what I have read, is a pretty good beginning to an important issue, the causes, the effects, effects that linger to this day.

One of the resources that I like to use, is to try and find material close to the events of the day, and for me, the archived news search option for google can bring some pretty good results. When reading, always keep in mind that the articles will usually have a slant to them depending on the author, not much has changed has it?

Here's a lengthy article from the

Hartford Weekly Times - Nov 4, 1871

that helps to describe the chaotic situation in South Carolina at that moment. While it does have it's slant to it, it does provide alot of information that can be looked into further.

So far, I am still strongly in favor of putting this whole century+ long racial division upon the shoulders of our own Federal government, and those who sought to capitalize post civil war.

Just a thought, if all the misguided "anger/ hatred" that blacks - whites have suffered through for far to long were directed at the creators of this divide, do you think that together we could actually get a Federal government that actually represents the citizens? Pipe dream?

Instead of continuing this divide, band together and direct your anger at..

Career Politicians

Sorry, had a brainstorm, back to the topic...

I am enjoying this discussion, and applaud everyone for maintaining civility, in an often times tough topic to tackle..

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
reply to post by kro32

 

How can you study history so extensively and yet be so ignorant of what you are "learning"?
Why do you people keep missing the whole point of the slavery issue? Why can't you understand that slavery issue was used as a legal means to secede from the union?
Why can't you understand lincoln and his kind did everything they could to destroy the Confederate states' economies so they could force them to sell their crops at rock bottom prices?
Why can't you understand that plantations had highest support for secession because they where the one's being targeted directly by lincoln's economic terrorism and not because they wanted slaves?
Why can't you understand that the union's navy blockaded Confederate vessels so they couldn't trade with anybody but the union at their demanded prices?
Why can't you understand this country has been run unconstitutionally since the war and is the reason this country is under corporate, banker and foreign control?

I agree. I just don't understand why some people will gloss over the economic tyranny that the northern states placed upon the southern states.Slavery might have been at issue,however it was not the issue as a whole,to bring secession and war.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Juston

 

I haven't read through, but in our current economic times, and the over-bearing, over-spending, over-taxing, over-regulating Federal government.........how can less than half the people empathize with the Confederacy?

This is proof of our poor education system, and poor knowledge of current events. The Confederacy would be just as important today as it was in the 1860's! We need a return to the "Republic" that the country was founded to be. The past 100 years have created a Federal Government that was never intended to be this large, this powerful, or this intrusive.

Yes, I empathize with the Confederacy, and I wish more did. It is sad that so many people just accept their chains, and don't seek out more information.

If the Civil War was about slavery, then it was a success, because we are now all enslaved by taxes. We have now lost the majority of our personal freedoms in travel, personal property rights, personal rights to privacy. We are now mandated to have certain types of healthcare, and we once again have "debtor's prisons."

So, I guess I can agree, the Civil War was about slavery, and we lost, and slavery won, and now we are all enslaved, our lifestyles are destroyed, our middle class has disintegrated, our future generations are strapped with debt that is impossible to overcome, and every average American is living a lifestyle almost 10x worse than just 50 years ago. AND, while our lifestyles have eroded, we have to work more hours, have two-income households, and are restricted by more and more laws. Not only is our economic situation worse off, our freedoms have been railroaded away from us, and our family structure has been destroyed by the necessity of working more and staying home less!

I haven't thought about it that way but I completely agree. When the South lost, the Massive Fed Govt Overlord was completed and we all became slaves. States lost individuality and sovereignty and that sealed our doom to what we have in this day. Everything became federal.

Constitution of the Confederate States of America
(Preamble)
We (comma) the People of the Confederate States of America (comma) EACH STATE acting in its SOVEREIGN and INDEPENDENT character (comma) in order to form a permanent Federal government (comma) establish justice(comma) insure domestic tranquility (comma) and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity - invoking favor and guidance of Almighty God - do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate states of America
(Capitolisation by me)

Section 9
Article 1
The importation of negros of the African race, from any foreign country, other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden, and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.
Article 2
Congress shall have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.

Art.1 prohibits any new slaves coming in except by the north

I know someone is gonna say ... why didn't they just outlaw it altogether.. it was to far engrained and was going to have to be weeded out over time, it was just the way it was back in the 1860s,, deal with it. but thats what Art 2 is for

Art. 2 Congress can make laws banning slaves from the north over time and ease into freedom instead of just throwing it all in a pot and hoping it makes soup

The Preamble says it all to me, each state sovereign and independent with small govt to help with foreign trade and military and such.

take the time to read the Confederate Constitution and you'll see why I still side with the Confederacy to this day

reply to post by NeoConfederate


Exactly.


Nothing is all good or all bad, but the confederacy was our last ditch effort at continuing as a Republic in the manner the Constitution laid out. Everything since the loss of the Civil War has served to increase the size of the Federal Govt and limit the sovereign rights of the states, and the citizens.

This day and age, slavery is a little different, we still work longer hours than we want to or need to, we still do it so that someone else can profit, we still do it at the will and pleasure of someone else. We still need permission from an overseer before we do anything on our own. If we do anything on our own, we still pay royalties and licensing fees back to someone for the permission they granted. If we don't pay those things, we lose all of our rights and can even end up in prison. The government still uses force, or at least the threat of force to keep us working pacifely, and if we get out of line, we are still punished with violence, up to and including death. Our kids are still taken away from us at certain ages and indoctrinated into the governments system. The government still requires that our kids are inspected by their regulators, and that the kids are documented and accounted for at birth, and that the kids get their food, and their medicine, and are raised according to their guidelines. If the government isn't satisfied with the way we raise our kids, they will take them, and raise them theirselves, until such an age that the kid becomes just another one of their subjects. We still have to have the government's permission before we marry someone, or end a marriage with someone. We have to have the government's permission to travel, or cross jurisdictions, or leave the country, or return to the country.

Anyone, please tell me how we are more free now, than we were before the civil war, because I don't see it.

Can anyone name anything that does not require a permit, license, fee, or inspection?

Originally posted by DarkKnight76 I am all for insurrection, obviously, or I wouldn't be here. But to say the Revolution and Civil War were the same is doing a disservice to both. As far as I remember every Southern state had representation in Congress, where as no American colonies had representation in the British Parliament .

While what you are saying is true in the strictest sense it was the opinion of many in the South that while they may have had representation at the time of the election of 1860 - it was not equal representation.

The country had divided into two distinct regions. The Northern States had a rapidly-growing economy based on industry, mining, commerce and transportation, with a large and rapidly growing urban population including large numbers of immigrants from Europe.

The South was dominated by an agrarian system based on slavery. The South also had fewer large cities, and little manufacturing. While the wealthy slave owners may have controlled politics and economics, two-thirds of Southern whites owned no slaves and usually were engaged in subsistence agriculture – i.e. poor.

It was clear to those in the South that based on the way the US Constituion worked they would soon loose any influnace they had over Federal politics and their way of life was in jeaopardy.

At the Constitutional convention many of the strong proponents of States rights like Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry were not present. Many felt that the new constitution ignored the rights of states to continue to act independently. They felt that the states should still have the right to decide if they were willing to accept certain federal acts. This resulted in the idea of nullification, whereby the states would have the right to rule federal acts unconstitutional. The federal government denied states this right. The Constitutional Convention itself is considered by many to be the first step in Southern States moving toward secession.

Election of 1860

Election Day shocked America. 81.2% of registered voters went to the ballot box, the most in any election until 1876. Lincoln swept the North (181 electoral votes) and Breckenridge the deep South (72 votes) with the border states going to Bell (39 votes) and Douglas (12 votes). In spite of adding 500,000 votes to Fremont's total, Lincoln only won with 39.8%, an increase of 6% from Fremont's showing.

By the time of the 1860 election, the South as a group had fewer Electoral College votes than the rapidly industrializing North. Lincoln was able to win the 1860 Presidential election without even being on the ballot in ten Southern states.

The election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860 was the final straw for many southerners. In the eyes of many in the South Lincoln's election was way more than one party assuming power from another, a temporary setback that could be overturned in the next election. As a party whose sole purpose was the elimination of slavery, the Republican success was a turning point. This time the issue at hand was Slavery but what issue would be next? Regardless of the issue they would have little or no influnace in the outcome.

The South felt that they would no longer have a voice in Federal politics and the Southern way of life would be destroyed. Returning Southerner to power in 1864 could not put back into place that which had been destroyed. This was different than, say, repealing a tariff that had been put in place. This would be a scary proposition for any population would it not?

The nation could not be returned to the status quo that stood prior to 1860 if their way of life was destroyed, Faced with such a situation, the choice for Southerners was clear. If the South remained in the Union, it faced the end of its way of life. To save the society they had built, Southerners could not remain in the Union. Secession seemed the only way out.

It is no great leap to claim that the creation of the Republican party, a truly sectional party in its first years, was the crucial link in the chain of events leading to the Civil War. The success of the party was a direct outcome of the electoral college. Since this system allowed a candidate who won a state to receive all of its electoral votes, it permitted the scenario that resulted in Lincoln's victory.

I can see this situation perhaps repeating itself in the future as if one looks at the recent election results there seems to be the same division building. One in which a few (in this case red/Liberal and Democratic) States can dictate the direction of Federal politics to the less populated and in this case conservative or blue States. Taking the key NE and West coast population centers can almost guarantee the Presidency and thus the agenda without regard for the desires of the blue States in the middle.

Look at the Gore/Bush and or to a lesser extent even the Obama election map and see the disparity. When a whole group of people feels they have lost or are losing any reasonable representation at the table there will be issues.

As for Slavery itself being an issue; sure it was an issue but not the only or main one. Hell, the EP (Emancipation Proclamation) didn’t even free any slaves.

LINCOLN AND THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION.

The extent of slave escapes in the South and the burden it placed upon the Union presented a major dilemma for President Lincoln. From the moment the conflict began at Fort Sumter, Lincoln's foremost goals had been to preserve the Union, to bring the war to an end with a minimum of bloodshed, and to avoid lingering animosity between Northern and Southern whites. If that could best be achieved by preserving slavery, he said, he would do so; if it could be achieved by freeing every slave, he would do that instead. Lincoln despised slavery, but he, like Thomas Jefferson and many others before him, doubted that blacks and whites could ever live in America in a condition of equality.

Lincoln by his own admission would have done anything to include keeping slavery legal to save the Union; hardly the views of a staunch abolitionist. However, there was a lot of pressure from various groups that led him to choose the proclamation as his remedy.

At the same time, Lincoln was confronted at home by abolitionists who insisted that the war should be one for emancipation. Abroad, he was faced with growing skepticism about Northern war aims. If the Union goal was simply to reunite the country and preserve slavery, then the North was undertaking a war of aggression. The South's claim that it was fighting for its independence, just as the United States had done during the Revolution, was therefore valid, and foreign powers had the right to intervene as the French had done in 1778. All these pressures forced Lincoln to conclude that emancipation would have to become a Union war goal.

The issue of slavery was hung on the American Civil War that was more about the fear of losing representation and therefore a way of life in the South and more over State’s rights. It was the emotional issue that was necessary to hang on the events to make those who disagreed with the war or cause seem heartless, racist or anti-liberty - whatever.

This emotion was necessary to keep out other interventionist Nations by appealing to their populations. Making the South into boogiemen without compassion for their fellow humans made them easy to hate. It’s manipulation of the sheeple to achieve political goals through the use of emotion - nothing more nothing less.

Just like race being an issue in politics today; our President was chosen by his party for the very reason he is a black man because it allows for them to advance a controversial or unpopular agenda with little fear of dissent through threat of the use of the race card. The race card is the ultimate and last desperate challenge to any disagreement. No one wants to have to argue they are not a racist and even the accusation of it today is enough to be branded one for life.

Bottom line is that the major cause of the war was he southern economy became a one crop economy, depending on cotton and therefore on slavery. On the other hand, the northern economy was based more on industry than agriculture. In fact, the northern industries were purchasing the raw cotton and turning it into finished goods.

This disparity between the two set up a major difference in economic attitudes. The South was based on the plantation system while the North was focused on city life. This change in the North meant that society evolved as people of different cultures and classes had to work together. On the other hand, the South continued to hold onto an antiquated social order.

Faced with a total change in one’s way of life is scary and a sure motivator for rebellion.

This poll is meaningless. The sample size used for this poll is not sufficient enough to generalize the feelings of those in the south. They only surveyed 824 adults out of millions. This is why I hate polls. They take some crap sample size and throw out their findings as breaking news headlines. I don't have a doctorate in statistics but I know enough about statistics to know this poll is meaningless.

Its like me going down to my local university which has an enrollment of 30,000+ and surveying 10 people. Once I get my answer from those 10 people I would then generalize the whole campus population off of those ten peoples answers. Its nonsense