Tried to Hire a Homeless Man Today

reply to post by Sinnthia


Agreed.

There are as many freeloading bum corporations as there are bums on the street(not to be confused with homeless people who are down on their luck).

reply to post by onehuman


There's this guy in Denver who used to panhandle an Quebec and Colfax they called "Father Phony". This guy would be out there everyday with a hat in his hand, black priest clothes, clerical collar, unshaven and hair mussed collecting for his "church". Perhaps some here know of this guy. My understanding is that this guy was no more a priest than I am the pope. Another guy down at Santa Fe and Mississippi, who stands there and waves to EVERYBODY, smiles and does lots of crazy hand gestures. This guy probably deserves a buck just for the entertainment value, as he reminds me of one of those living sign guys. Then there's this guy recently here in my new town in Hawaii. He pedals movies for a dollar apiece he's downloaded off of the internet, and will tell you the same hard luck story every time you see him. usually with some new ailment each subsequent time.

Every one of these guys has a different story, from true, to partly true, to downright fraud. The frauds are professionals who play on your sympathy and good samaritanship while spitting in your face, not unlike most TV evangelists. They've figured out that people are good at heart and will give them money if they can play the part well enough. Everybody has a story, but those that play on the emotional factor, trying to throw some type of unearned guilt trip based on outright lies are just bottom of the barrel leaches. Mental illness does come into play a lot, as I see that here in Hawaii, but I think that if an able bodied, sound minded person can do SOMETHING for some honest pay, they should be jumping on it. 20 bucks for raking some leaves is an honest buck, and if the guy was able bodied and could have done this in a hour, he should have taken you up on it, or at least have thanked you for the offer. As they say, beggars can't be choosers. As in all groups of people, you got winners and losers, and the "donator" will have to make up their own minds as to if the "donatee" Is worthy of their charity.

As for the "professionals' who lie about their situation and insist on money instead of food, when their sign explicitly says they are hungry, I offer this:

Get yourself a roll of quarters to keep in your car, and when you experience one of the fraudulent ones, give them one of the quarters, delivered via a wrist rocket slingshot.

reply to post by AwareOfSurroundings


death has been a result in the cases I mentioned above. All you need to do is look and see that we humans kill eachother over pointless things all the time. The object at the center makes no difference. And you suggested they find some help. Would that be help in the form of mind bending pills they cant begin to afford or stay up on refilling...or maybe one of these outpatient clinics that turn you away if you dont have insurance?...or maybe they could get some healthcare through the state?....wait...no address to speak of. So its not that easy and forcing help on people is a huge violation of personal liberties. it is not until we get to the root causes of these situations that things will get better. And the root causes begin long before that tussle round the trashcan fire.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by James1982

 

Again, you don't know what this man's situation looks like.

Maybe he hates Starbucks?
Maybe he already ate and needed money for a bus? cab?

I don't know the mans WHOLE situation. I do know part of it. The part that is sitting on the side of the street, every day, begging for food and/or money (so says the sign) And is too good for starbucks food.

It wasn't coffee, it was all sorts of pastries and muffins. They don't require refrigeration (I don't know what that guy was talking about...?) He could have saved them for later.

He is begging for food, and then GIVES AWAY food. I don't know how someone could not like Muffins and pastries. Even if they do, they are BEGGING for food, and everyone has heard the saying "beggars can't be choosers"

I'm not homeless and even I eat things I don't like sometimes because I'm hungry and broke, or there is nothing else around. I don't feel too bad for the guy if he doesn't keep like 20 bucks worth of free food.

Originally posted by James1982
It wasn't coffee, it was all sorts of pastries and muffins. They don't require refrigeration (I don't know what that guy was talking about...?) He could have saved them for later.

I really think some of you should just not bother trying to "help" people you do not know intimately. I feel like maybe your homeless man was just smarter than you are giving him credit for. Starbucks pastries are not exactly "food" they are butter, flour, and sugar. Offer a suffocating man some Carbon Dioxide since its technically air of some kind and then complain about how they turned down your help. Basically you offered a homeless man empty calories, sugar, and gluten. You cannot believe they turned it down where I cannot believe you bothered to make that offer. You sound like the person that gives a cigarette butt to a smoker and then complains they were not greatful that you at least gave them something.

The whole point of being charitable is supposed to be because you want to help someone, not feel better about yourself. Actually taking the time to complain about someone who did not accept your particular form of "help" comes across more as a "look how good I tried to be and that scum just wants to be scum, F them!"

I am sure your intentions were purely noble but were I that homeless person, I would certainly thank you for your offer of empty calories and politely decline as I can starve and be less unhealthy than I will be killing the pain with crap.

Originally posted by LS650

Originally posted by Vicky32I can't believe anyone believes John Stossel! The jerk is a libertarian, for goodness' sake!

You say that like it was a bad thing.

Of course it's a bad thing, the whole 'virtue of selfishness' idea means that he'd happily lie like a rug in order to further disadvantage the poor.
Vicky

someone mentioned this piece john stossel did.. sorry if it's already been posted. don't agree with everything that's said, but there's a lot of interesting stuff..

segment starts at about 1:45

www.youtube.com...

There is something to be said for there being a cultural aspect to this problem in N. America. Many years ago I took a 2 week vacation from the cold north to the Dominican Republic. My girl friend of the time and I toured several towns big and small in the Caribbean island nation.

Although there were many poor people there on the streets I cannot recall a single person asking for something for nothing. Every single man, woman or child seeking funds had something probably hand made to sell or a service to offer, like cleaning your shoes. At the end of the trip I had nothing but admiration for the people of that country. The difference between them, and what goes on on our streets was glaring. It is a different culture, for sure. No-one expects something for nothing. At the same time, there was a generosity there that has remained with me to this date. My girlfriend and I were reduced to tears once back on Canadian soil, tears of gratitude for having experienced such a warm culture.

By just giving to people with their hand out on the street, are we helping, or making things worse? That is not an easy question to answer. It is a worthy question nevertheless.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

I really think some of you should just not bother trying to "help" people you do not know intimately. I feel like maybe your homeless man was just smarter than you are giving him credit for. Starbucks pastries are not exactly "food" they are butter, flour, and sugar. Offer a suffocating man some Carbon Dioxide since its technically air of some kind and then complain about how they turned down your help. Basically you offered a homeless man empty calories, sugar, and gluten. You cannot believe they turned it down where I cannot believe you bothered to make that offer. You sound like the person that gives a cigarette butt to a smoker and then complains they were not greatful that you at least gave them something.

The whole point of being charitable is supposed to be because you want to help someone, not feel better about yourself. Actually taking the time to complain about someone who did not accept your particular form of "help" comes across more as a "look how good I tried to be and that scum just wants to be scum, F them!"

I am sure your intentions were purely noble but were I that homeless person, I would certainly thank you for your offer of empty calories and politely decline as I can starve and be less unhealthy than I will be killing the pain with crap.

You seem to put a lot of effort into replying to people, but no effort at all into reading what the person even said. Did you even read my posts? I don't see how you could have. Because if you did, you would realize I was NOT the person giving the homeless guy the stuff. Some lady ahead of me in a car was. The homeless guy gave ME the stuff, because he didn't want it.

Aside from that, the rest of your post is just silly.

He is being a healthy eater by refusing starbucks snacks when he is homeless? Are you kidding? What do you think the guy used his iphone to Google the nutrition facts? Maybe he did, because I've seen many of these corner people changing shift and getting into brand new pickup trucks and the like, so it wouldn't be too far out there Anyway, using my computer, I did look up nutrition facts. You know what that stuff has in it? Vitamins, fiber, protein, fats, carbs, sugar. You know the things that make humans survive. We do need fat, we do need calories, and carbs, and sugar. Obviously some of the stuff wasn't the most healthy stuff in the world, but it is food. You will live if you eat it.

However you are right about one thing, being charitable is about helping, and not about making you feel better about yourself. If you hold a sign that says "HUNGRY NEED FOOD AND/OR MONEY" and then get angry when someone gives you food, I'm sorry but I have no respect or empathy for you whatsoever. As for your cigarette analogy, again your logic seems like a huge fail to me.

Being a smoker, who hangs out with many smokers quite often, I am grateful when I'm out of smokes and someone gives me the last half of their cig, or a few puffs or whatever. And when I do the same for other people, THEY are also grateful. Why wouldn't they be?

It seems like your whole deal is you feel people are entitled to whatever they want whenever they want it. If you are complaining about being hungry, you give up your right to be picky about what you are going to eat. If you are complaining about needing a cig, then you give up the right to complain what brand or manner that cig is gifted.

Helping the needy should be the goal, not indulging the spoiled. You seem like you support the second idea.

Originally posted by onehuman
Being a cab driver, I cant help but notice a bit of the underworld while driving around town.

For this particular post I will be referring to the guy that stands on the corner with his homeless and hungry sign.

We have all seen them. Some of us donate, some of us look the other way. Some of us are grateful that isn't us, perhaps even a few of us smug about it.

Anyhow, the long and short of this post is the fact that I do see these people every day, same place, same sign.

So, today I decided I wanted to work on my yard, get it ready for spring which has finally decided to arrive. I realized being somewhat hampered, I needed some help. Usually I have some kids around, but today I didnt. So, I thought I'll go see if one of those hungry folks would like to make some money helping me. You know, try and give back to the community, yada yada.....

Of I go in search, too the corners I know. Murphy's law, they weren't around until my last choice. After parking and walking a ways to talk to this fella, this is pretty much how the conversation went...

me: "Want to make $20.00 bucks?
him: Doing what?
me: raking leaves
him: How many?
me: $20.00 bucks worth
him: I can make $20.00 bucks standing here in a hour
him: How big is the yard?
me: Small
him: I don't have to bag them or anything just rake?
me: Yes you have to bag them
him: No Thanks

Now I have to be honest and admit I was wondering what the heck is wrong with is guy? Im offering a honest way to make a few bucks, because after all, he is hungry, ( though Im trying to figure that out too, as he can make $20.00 a hour standing on corner, even if he only did it 4 hours, which makes $80.00. Which if he did 4 days a week, would be $320.00.) How can someone be hungry with that kind of money?

I guess I wouldn't leave my post either. If I put a 40 hour week in doing that I would have $800.00.

Enough on that point, the thing is there were two other guys working the other corners. So I presented the same thing. Long story short, one had a gimp knee,the other one, a bad shoulder. Okay, if you say so, I'll believe.

I will say, I can imagine there may have been a trust factor. I mean I did just walk up out of the clear blue. I could have had my own trust factors being a woman and picking up a stranger as well. I decided to try and get past that. Stupid? Maybe... but I have my senses.

I guess I am posting this because I was shocked in a odd way . I'm not even sure what shocked me more. The fact someone is claiming to be hungry, but wont do some honest work to make a few bucks, Or, The fact this same person makes more then I do standing on a corner.

Can someone tell me what is wrong with this picture?

This may sound cruel and insensitive but those types of people do not want to work for anyone they are lazy, plain and simple. They want to go through life doing absolutely nothing but get paid for it.

I honestly don't think homeless people should even be allowed on the street unless they are willing to actually work. This same thing happened to one of my old bosses, she went out of her way to help a homless woman apply for a job, and the lady never showed up.

Of all people they are the bottom feeders!! Enough said!

Seems to me, about any job you have, you're a professional beggar. Servers and the like, anyone? gimme dolla gimme dolla plz. gimme break.

Since when did we become "Too Good" to work for money when times get tough?

I was raised to believe that you do a job with pride and hard work, whether it is at McD's or Wall Street. If you are hungry, then you do what needs to be done to eat in an honest way. Sadly with this thread I am noticing a trend.

$20.00 dollars is not good enough to rake about 2 hours worth of leaves? Really? I live in the highest unemployment city in Virginia... Do you have any idea how many folks I know who would throw themselves at $10.00 an hour? This man is too proud for $10.00 an hour, but not too proud to beg? That is ludicrous beyond imagination. What people are lacking is integrity, pride, common sense, a decent work ethic, and drive. And to see so many approving of this guy turning down honest, gainful employment is shocking to me.

I would rather work two hours while honestly earning 20 bucks than begging for a handout from folks who earn less than that on an hourly basis. I am only 34, but I have noticed that there are a ton of unemployed people who are "too good" to flip burgers, or clean a motel room... it is too common now. It was not so prevalant an occurance 15 years ago. An honest job is just that. It is not a status symbol, but that is seemingly what it has become.

The more handouts and leg ups the government doles out, the worse this trend becomes. People used to avoid government aid like the plague out of pride and self sufficiency. They went out and did odd jobs, they worked 3 jobs, they sold some of their status symbols, they fought and scratched to do it on their own. That has changed. This generation seems to feel like they are owed a free ride, that government will provide, and/or loved ones will support them. The "Can Do" attitude and sense of accomplishment people should feel when they fully support themselves is not a highly valued commodity any longer among many.

We live hand to mouth. We have sold many things to make it. We have washed cars, watched dogs, babysat children, painted houses, etc. for money when times got tight. I could not imagine turning down honest work for a freebie handout. Maybe that is foolish on our part. But the one or two times we have had to borrow money from either set of parents, it was asked for with a lump in our throats, a tear in our eyes, and with a heavy feeling of shame and failure. I could not do that for a living if I tried.

OP, I think it was an awesome gesture you made. Don't let what happened destroy your helping spirit because some folks do need it from time to time. Not all homeless people are that way because of laziness. A few may suffer mental illness or an especially rough bump in the road of life... those are the ones that would have acccepted your offer with gratitude. Your heart could not have been in a better place, and you should not be made to feel ashamed for making the offer IMO. Keep on keeping on!

I used to work a long time ago as a social worker "helping" people with developmental disabilities. Then I came to realize that I was the only one being helped via a comfortable salary, while the people with disabilities still had their disabilities and a heavily restricted lifestyle thanks to the "help" the agency I worked for provided.

I actually started to feel guilty as well as frustrated. The very essence of my job was to underscore a perceived downgrade of their humanity and value. So I left the paid service and made my living elsewhere.

I take people at face value regardless of their circumstances. Some are good. Some are not. That applies to professionals and street people alike. I will help some, and pass by a lot as my inclination or intuition guides me. It is OK not to like someone who is obnoxious, lazy or criminal -- just make an effort to try and find out which is which before passing judgment.

Originally posted by wayno
There is something to be said for there being a cultural aspect to this problem in N. America. Many years ago I took a 2 week vacation from the cold north to the Dominican Republic. My girl friend of the time and I toured several towns big and small in the Caribbean island nation.

Although there were many poor people there on the streets I cannot recall a single person asking for something for nothing. Every single man, woman or child seeking funds had something probably hand made to sell or a service to offer, like cleaning your shoes. At the end of the trip I had nothing but admiration for the people of that country. The difference between them, and what goes on on our streets was glaring. It is a different culture, for sure. No-one expects something for nothing. At the same time, there was a generosity there that has remained with me to this date. My girlfriend and I were reduced to tears once back on Canadian soil, tears of gratitude for having experienced such a warm culture.

By just giving to people with their hand out on the street, are we helping, or making things worse? That is not an easy question to answer. It is a worthy question nevertheless.

One of the things that makes that harder in the United States is the Civil Codes that usually require street vendors in most municipalities to get a vendors license.

Here in Miami if you wanted to sell bottles of water, flowers, or home made crafts on the street you can only legally do so if you first apply for a street vendors permit and pay the $345.00 dollar fee.

Many people do by the way and make a fairly decent living legally hustling items like water and flowers, fresh fruits etc.

However not everyone can pay $345.00 and those who don't have the permit do risk beign fined, and having their wares confiscated, even being taken to jail for vacracny if the officer is so inclined.

The state makes it harder for a small entrepenuer to start up here in the United States than in some place like the Dominican Republic.

reply to post by onehuman


Eh.. I don't see anything wrong with this picture. He was honest about making the same money standing there and your proposition wasn't going to make a life change for him. Don't get me wrong, your heart was in the right place, but he also has to consider the commute and who this stranger is offering him a quick job.

His turning down your job offer doesn't really mean he is lazy, it doesn't mean if you would have pulled up and been like, he i'll get you a room to clean up if you want to start a regular job working for me he wouldn't have seized that opportunity.

I know you are thinking well he is making enough not to warrant a homeless and hungry sign, that's dishonest if he is making 20 bucks an hour on the street... except if the sign didn't say homeless and hungry, he wouldn't be making that and would in fact be homeless and hungry.

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
Since when did we become "Too Good" to work for money when times get tough?

I was raised to believe that you do a job with pride and hard work, whether it is at McD's or Wall Street. If you are hungry, then you do what needs to be done to eat in an honest way. Sadly with this thread I am noticing a trend.

$20.00 dollars is not good enough to rake about 2 hours worth of leaves? Really? I live in the highest unemployment city in Virginia... Do you have any idea how many folks I know who would throw themselves at $10.00 an hour? This man is too proud for $10.00 an hour, but not too proud to beg? That is ludicrous beyond imagination. What people are lacking is integrity, pride, common sense, a decent work ethic, and drive. And to see so many approving of this guy turning down honest, gainful employment is shocking to me.

Your post brings up some good points my friend. Let's look at this $10.00 an hour working vs. $10.00 an hour pan handling.

On one hand the person sets his own terms, conditions, and work ethic. He chooses what corner to stand on, how to treat his customers (and he can certainly tell them to kiss off he likes), and how long he will stand there for. At the end of his shift he keeps all that he earned. He can go anywhere and do anything with it that he chooses. If he is homeless, he is not tied down to a mortgage or rent, utilities, trash collection, maintenance, or even having to return to the box he came out of at the end of the day. Where ever he chooses to lay his head at night IS home, and it is free.

Now if he works for someone else to make that money, he now has to agree to their terms, their conditions, and their work ethic. In this case it is raking leaves for approximately 2 hours. In that two hours, he must comply with conditions he did not want to accept. His work ethic would be limited to what the person he was working for would tolerate, and he would be dependant on them to return him to the place which he came from at the end of the day. He still gets to keep his money and return to his home of choice. The difference so far, is a sacrifice of his own freedom for the sake of performing for some one else.

If he were offered a "real" job for $10.00 an hour, he would sacrifice even more. He now would be expected to comply with an even stricter conditions, terms, and work ethic. He would have to arrive in an appearance which the "employer" dictated, clean clothes, freshly shaven and clean, he would have to be polite to THEIR customers, he would be subject to working by their schedule, and he would be subject to something far more sinister, TAXES. So he gives up being who he wants to be for the "employers" desire AND he gives up what he earned to the state. Now to comply with these standards he must have a "home" to wash up in and do laundry, he must have utilities because the state forbids living in a "home" without utilities, he must have his trash collected or add another expense of getting a vehicle to haul it away for him. After the state has taken their cut and all the expenses of complying with the "employers" standards are taken out, the man is left with maybe a couple of dollars at the end of the hour. His freedom has been sacrificed for what amounts to slave labor. Indeed it has.

What is lost in this society is human dignity and freedom.

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
I would rather work two hours while honestly earning 20 bucks than begging for a handout from folks who earn less than that on an hourly basis. I am only 34, but I have noticed that there are a ton of unemployed people who are "too good" to flip burgers, or clean a motel room... it is too common now. It was not so prevalent an occurance 15 years ago. An honest job is just that. It is not a status symbol, but that is seemingly what it has become.

This is because you do not mind conforming to others standards. There is nothing wrong with this. This is how society has been trained. You do not mind sacrificing freedom because you do not want to do anything that is forbidden anyway. Since you do not want to do it, then it is OK for it to be forbidden or frowned upon by anyone else. It isn't until the encroachments reach your comfort zone that you will have a problem with the system. The loss of freedom is sneaky. No one minds being restricted from doing something they do not wish to do. They do not realise that the choice should ALWAYS be theirs. Right or wrong, it is your free will. Just because you do not wish to do something, does not mean it should be frowned upon or restricted by government or society. That is the slippery slope to having what you do want to do being restricted as well.
What if that $20.00 suddenly has the purchasing power of $2.00, would you still do the same amount of labor?
What if that $20.00 held it's value, but to earn it you now had to be registered in a worker database managed by the government so they could track your life long work history?
What if that $20.00 didn't exist at all and was simply an illusion. Would you work for the good of society rather than for money if YOU set your own terms, conditions, and work ethic?

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
The more handouts and leg ups the government doles out, the worse this trend becomes. People used to avoid government aid like the plague out of pride and self sufficiency. They went out and did odd jobs, they worked 3 jobs, they sold some of their status symbols, they fought and scratched to do it on their own. That has changed. This generation seems to feel like they are owed a free ride, that government will provide, and/or loved ones will support them. The "Can Do" attitude and sense of accomplishment people should feel when they fully support themselves is not a highly valued commodity any longer among many.

Those handouts you dislike so much are what is keeping those who want to be free from rioting in the street and tearing down this oppressive regime. Those handouts go to those who said "I have had enough of the system!". If they were left to go hungry, well there would be blood in the streets!

Mean while, those who do comply will get worked harder and harder for less money as more and more say "Hell No!" to the beast. Eventually, you too will realise the system in place, and you and yours will join the ever growing masses.

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
We live hand to mouth. We have sold many things to make it. We have washed cars, watched dogs, babysat children, painted houses, etc. for money when times got tight. I could not imagine turning down honest work for a freebie handout. Maybe that is foolish on our part. But the one or two times we have had to borrow money from either set of parents, it was asked for with a lump in our throats, a tear in our eyes, and with a heavy feeling of shame and failure. I could not do that for a living if I tried.

You are not a failure! This is what the system WANTS you to think so that they can keep you in-line. The only one who thinks you are a failure is YOURSELF. Take your dignity back MAN!

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
OP, I think it was an awesome gesture you made. Don't let what happened destroy your helping spirit because some folks do need it from time to time. Not all homeless people are that way because of laziness. A few may suffer mental illness or an especially rough bump in the road of life... those are the ones that would have acccepted your offer with gratitude. Your heart could not have been in a better place, and you should not be made to feel ashamed for making the offer IMO. Keep on keeping on!

It was an awesome gesture. It was "Here, let me help you back into the system." And, I understand it was made with the best of intentions from a loving heart BUT...

The Man said NO, keep your system, mine is better.

With Love,

Your Brother

I used to run a homeless shelter. We are a very small community, also very isolated, but everybody knows everybody else, so we get to know who is on the make real quick. But it is hard to prove that someone is just playing the system sometimes. I would estimate that about 60% of "homeless" people are not homelss at all, but are playing for sympathy by begging, utilizing homeless shelters when it is not necessary - they just feel like going for a trip and make like they are homeless. A REAL homeless person has a lot of problems, mental and physical disability, illnesses, addictions, may be violent or abusive. They are homeless for a reason - usually several reasons. These people need more help than a handout - they need mental health counselling, addictions treatment, medical treatment, job training, not to mention a big dollop of friendship. There are also housing issues for these people who can not pay rent. Other people are simply homeless through having lost their homes in the recession, along with their jobs, but these people usually have some recourse to other than begging on the street. Some people are homeless because they like to be, don't want any responsibility and travel from town to town on the hospitality of the state - these are hobos, and if that is their lifestyle so be it, but they usually end up sliding down the ladder into the really down and out category. If someone is able bodied enough to stand on a street corner, they are able bodied enough to work, or to look for other type of help. They are eligible for welfare and make work programs. Don't give money to an obviously able-bodied person on the street. Even most blind or disabled people are too proud to do that. If you like, ask them if they would like you to buy them some food. If they say no, keep walking!

I tried to give a homeless guy some fries I didn't touch from lunch and he turned it down. That was the first and only time I tried to help a homeless person. Sad, because I bet there are a few that would appreciate a free meal or a chance to make 20 bucks. Not a bad racket making $20/hr looking pathetic and exploiting the generosity of others.

They probably did really fall on hard times to get to that position. But making that kind of money, I don't see any incentive to stop doing it.

There are a lot more people in this country than you think there are, that are one paycheck, one missed mortgage/rent payment or one injury away from being homeless.

Not sure how relevant this is:

There was this one guy on the street corner holding up a sign that said something to the effect:
"I prefer begging to stealing, so please donate". - it was novel at least.

Another favourite in South Africa is standing at the traffic light with a garbage bag for motorists to chuck their car rubbish in while the traffic light is red, with a donation of some sort.

Of course, this is in South Africa, so if you open your car window to hand out charity you are also likely to end up with a gun held to your head, someone snatching stuff from inside your car, or someone on the other side of your car breaking the window etc.

And sometimes if you help out someone with money or food or a job they will keep comming back and being demanding and eventually get very aggressive.

This is why my mother now preaches "charity starts at home" and if anyone gets persistant at the gate they get informed that our collection of German Shepherds are expensive to feed.