Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Assuming the place it was hit was exposed enough to allow it to get hit, it was probably moved for safety reasons..

Standard procedure in any military, by the way.

You guys have got to stop bickering like a bunch of little girls..

With respect,
Eliad.

Well here is the rub, not saying that is or isn't true. If that part of Southern Israel being occupied illegally per the UN by the Israelis is within striking distance of Gaza munitions why are school children being left exposed in it.

If the military considers itself in harms way standing around there, does it really make sense to be sending a school bus through there every day?

I don't mean that in any unkind or untoward way by the way. It would just seem if that were the case that the whole area would be a buffer zone off limits to civilians and just patrolled by the military.

Honestly as a parent and a grand parent I wouldn't want my children, or grand child, living, playing, or going to school in an area that was being militarily contested.

So having said that, are we to believe that the families living their exposing their children to this kind of potential hostility are doing so desperately out of economic reasons, out of some kind of religious faith or belief, and or some kind of sense of national patriotism?

Either way it makes them seem as less than ideal parents as I am sure there are no shortage of places to live further up range out of harms way.

By the way it's important for balance in life to get in touch with your 'feminine side'! Girls really dig it when you are in touch with your 'sensitive' side and can get them.

Incidentally Rome's first war was for women not land!

reply to post by xuenchen


You know honestly while I may be speaking prematurely I think I would welcome a more professional and disciplined force of pro-Israeli bloggers run by the IDF than the volunteer amature crew often associated with the JIDF.

Hopefully they will at least live up to the Terms of Service of the web sites that they visit in some disciplined fashion.

However this is an interesting development if you have been following the HB Gary Sock Puppet Internet Persona Software controversy that's been quitely going on for a couple months now in the United States, once it was discovered the above named defense contractor had developed software for use by the US Military to create armies of fake internet personas, fed by RSS feeds, allowing one operator to appear as many different posters, with the software spewing out individual IP addressess to game sites for each persona, creating pre-dated backgrounds for each to make them appear legitimite to real users, and the ability to give multiple thumbs or stars for arguments fed to them through RSS feeds, was uncovered in emails between HB Gary and government and military agencies by wiki-leaks.

Many here on ATS are concerned that this software is largeley behind the Arab Revolts and it's rumored that the US Military Psyops Unit coordinating that with this software operates out of Israel with Zionist aide.

So like every other weapon in the arsenal has the US Government given it to Israel or used it in close enough proximity to Israeli forces who have duplicated it on it's own?

Chances are like many Western Military endeavors Israel's announcement of this new Internet Force is a belated one, meaning it's already up and running and it will be soon hard to deny that it is.

Many of us believe there is something patently amoral and evil about the HB Gary software as it's designed to create an artificial majority to sway and influence people, which is the anti-thesis of democracy, the Government creating an artificial majority through deception to sell and justify it's own policies and decisions and validate itself.

Would I join such a force?

Possibly to infiltrate it and expose it, and or otherwise destroy it.

I am all for soldiers, and government employees individually sharing their thoughts, opinions and information on the Internet as concerned citizens on their own dime, but when that becomes a state sponsored, controlled and paid for activity I am very much against it and I think anyone who favors democracy and rule by the people should, even if you feel such a force is accurately reflecting your agenda or personal goals.

Today they very well might be, tomorrow might be a very different story, and there in lies the supreme danger to us all.

The pen is mightier than the sword and all this represents is a propaganda effort that would make Joseph Goebells proud.

reply to post by Xcathdra


So here we find the truth even though you dance around it, as a municiple officer you have little ability to enforce things that fall under 'federal' law.

Even armed with a badge and gun you have no power to enforce important laws to protect the citizenry from Federal Law Enforcement Agents like the CIA running amuck in America, which is in part why they do in fact run amuck in America despite it being against the law.

Recently when having a contractual dispute with my cellular phone company where they did not want to any longer honor key provisions of a valid contract simply for their own convenience and profit, they attempted to use in essence what is black mail and extortion to get me to accept terms of a New Contract that I had no inclination of doing since the old one was valid.

They attempted to hold my service hostage, interupting it, and or impeding it, as a means to entice me into accepting the New Contract and abandoning my protections and priveleges under the old contract.

As one of the many tactics I employed to stand up to this malfeasance I called the local police department that the actual call center trying to use extortion, fraud and blackmail was located in.

Where you guessed it the local police said that they were powerless to act.

I asked them, what then is the recourse for the little guy being abused by a corporate entity breaking the law as a matter of policy with near impunity.

The Officer actually sympathized and told me to file a complaint with the SEC, and FCC and directed me to URL's where I could do that.

Ultimately to enforce the law as a citizen I would have to sue one of the larger corporations in America and invest tens of thousands of dollars into the process, against a company that is well known for such violations and simply writing off the cost of losing such suits as a cost of doing business and in essence passing the cost of the penalties that they are ordered to then pay to their customers, back on to their customers through rate hikes and fees.

This is our system law enforcement is set up to nickel and dime the little guy to death through endless code violations that apply to the little guy, while also enforcing morality through the things like the War on Drugs, but absolutely not empowered to protect or help the citizen against the corporate big guys running rough shod over Americans as they misrepresent the law and abuse the contractual premise that is meant to govern relationships between parties.

Sadly police officers are simply being employed as a stone wall in that regard, chalking up their inability to actually serve and protect the citizenry from these corporate tyrants as a jurisdictional limitation, up to and including in this case with you, more or less condoning and turning a blind eye to a foreign nation spying on us on our soil.

Which I think in this case is simply because you have some afinity for that foreign nation.

It would be interesting to see how your attitudes might change towards Hamas spies in America.

To date I haven't heard back from the SEC or FCC in regards to the complaints I filed, but fortunately I was able to parlay the threat of the pending action along with my own understanding of contract law to force the cellular company to honor my contract verbatim until it's lawful expirition.

This took several days and many hours to accomplish and no small bit of aggravation.

Why because as you point out Law Enforcement in the US is really a joke, of competing agencies each designed to profit off of and control the little guy, and to keep their mitts of the big guy also profiting off of and controlling the little guy in obscene and dishonest ways.

Much like Israel versus the Palestinians.

Go figure.

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Conspiracy or not, does these really look photoshopped?

Conflicting reports is a good thing, if this were staged, or orchestrated in any way, wouldn't everyone get the same information? Conflicting means there was confusion on the scene, which means there was a scene.

why does Israel keep "taking the slap on the cheek" with every little pip-squeek missile or pop-gun ?

Adunno... Do we really want another Cast Lead? Might cause more harm than good...

With respect,
Eliad.

The phrase is
כל הדרכים מובילות לרומא

edit on 16-4-2011 by Eliad because: (no reason given)

thanks for the correction...

I've been trying to find somebody that knows the correct Hebrew translation....

I am changing it now.

כל הדרכים מובילות לרומא

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Well, as it often is the case, indifference is the cause of most of these incidents.. They probably didn't think Hamas would be able to strike there, or that it's safe enough to let a bus through...

At any rate, once it was hit it would have been reckless to just keep standing there...

reply to post by xuenchen


No problem
The last one said "All the roads to drive to rome"

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agree and I might add that an "internet" "war" may actually produce better results than the "real thing" !

with all the failures of Israel's military, I for one would be reluctant if not outright ashamed of admitting any connections to the IDF.

this latest bus deal, and for a split-second I will assume it is genuine, has at the very least, shrouded the entire Israeli military into a complete military embarrassment to say the least.

if it is as we suspect, a false flag, WELL that's even a bigger screw-up by Israel. You would think they would be jumping through all hoops to keep this "incident" completely suppressed to avoid really looking like sissies !!

can you imagine a few pea-shooting punks making the whole mighty (by self proclamation) Israeli Army look like a bunch of wild rabbits walking all over their own pellets !

Israel has had 60+ years to get their s**t together but has failed miserably on all fronts.

It seems every time they make a real military move, a giant rubber band pulls 'em right back onto the fly paper they're stuck to over there !

and if that's not enough, they keep allowing these random attacks to continue at the very expense of their own citizens no less !!

I would be real scared if I lived over there !!

with friends like the IDF, who needs enemies ?

Those boys over there need to wake up FAST....

c'mon guys, God gave ya the promised land (with the help of the British Crown of course) .....

Be the men you portray yourselves to be .... defend yourself and show the world that you are not the laughing stock of the kingdom .... you sure look like that today !

and try doing it by yourself and for YOUR people for a change .... stop crying and whining and complaining everytime somebody throws a rock through your windows !!!!!

Proto mentioned in a post that TPTB may be targeting for Israel's bon-voyage.....

(my inside info says it's the main topic at the next board meeting)

it's no small wonder given the feeble performances for the last few decades.

maybe you need to bang your heads a little harder against the Western Wall so God can hear the hollow echos and maybe come to the rescue again ......

and maybe those Hamas's aren't as dumb as they look either ...... they must really be laughing at this latest clusterf**k ...... they must be say'n "we did it again Jamal, we made 'em look !"

Israel needs to solve its' problems .... right now .... and not with phony words either.

like Tuco said....."if you have to shoot....SHOOT, don't talk" ...

they better pray that the Mexican Cartels or even some street gang from any American city dosen't decide to take a vacation in Israel. Those guys could actually do business and be on holiday at the same time there, especially with the IDF on watch !

IDF ... take a lesson from the Mexicans .... they don't f**k around .... if they got a problem, they simply commit a few dozen mass murders to solve it. And they make plenty of bones about it too !!!...

IDF .... get new uniforms, the boy scouts are not in style !

reply to post by xuenchen


Actually not to be contradictory or flattering the Gay Jewish Mafia in Los Angeles that runs the porn and drug trade there is no bunch of fruitcakes despite the first word in the gang. They are deadly, hardened, cunning and ruthless.

So too could be said for Myer Lansky and the boys who helped found Murder Inc along with Lucky Luciani.

Where we see again a classic hook up between Jews and Rome to create a very formidible entity.

Lansky was perhaps one of the greatest and cunning criminals of all time, serving not one day in jail in a high profile organization where almost every other leader without exception ended up dead or in prison.

Amassing a considerable fortune no one has ever been able to accurately determine Lansky died a natural death never touched in any way by his life of crime.

In reality the Zionists are a mafia, trafficking in a number of contraband items, and controlling some lucrative trade.

The IDF like any military is only as good as it's political leadership and top commanders to direct it.

I think what most people have trouble understanding is that the whole War on Terror is similiar to if not identical to a Mafia protection racket.

Where through some simple conspiracy bada bing bada boom mama mia it looks like you have had some accident, me and my boys though, well we can prevent that kind of thing from happening but you got to pay, and pay, and pay, because you know, you got a pretty nice place here, and it would be a real shame to see anything happen to it.

Instead of running this protection racket for peanuts on shop keepers, the protection racket is run on nations for billions.

Same concept, same tactics.

It would be a mistake to consider the Zionists as anything less than tough and formidible, they have discipline, they are willing to murder to reach their goals, and they have infiltrated most societies throughout the world and have a real ability to reach out and strike at their enemies and form alliances everywhere.

While on the surface it appears that the Zionists have so infiltrated Congress that it has been subverted, I believe that is for appearances, that our funding and carte blanche support has absolutely nothing to do with Israeli lobbying or Jewish Lobbying, or extortion or blackmail as many theorize but everything to do with how Israel can be used to make the price of oil go up and down, and as the base premise behind the protection racket.

Peaceful God fearing Jews persecuted by the holocaust simply looking for a safe haven to live with strength of numbers are relentlessly harassed and attacked by religious extremists, Islamic Chauvenists and Terrorists, who now are attacking everyone, because of their religious beliefs.

The fact that they are attacking in the few cases that they do has to do with resentments of gun boat dimplomacy and unevenly applied international law, and in many cases Western Funding through the Intelligence Agencies who run the protection racket.

That though is all obscured in largely emotional based arguments centered around religion and politically correct notions instilled into society through carefully charted and disseminated propaganda.

So Israel helps keep the price of oil high and drives the fear of Islamic terrorism that makes the protection racket possible.

Of course who is actually protected in the protection racket are the people who are running it as they use the money extorted for more weapons and to grow their membership.

The fact that this can all be easily dismissed by pointing back to Israeli lobbying in Congress puts the blame on the Israelis and Jews in many people's minds and while many disagree with me, I simply don't see it that way.

I see the Oligarchs controlling and manipulating Israel and America through criminal gangs like the CIA and MOSSAD, and civilian mafias aligned with them, who further manipulate the situation and pass on a portion of their profits to the CIA and MOSSAD for them to run operations off the books without the oversight of the government.

While I agree many Americans and Israelis have the wrong attitude, I believe they are both equally powerless to stand up to their governments and the mafias and Intelligence agencies even when they have the right attitude because they have become so strong.

I have no problem with Israel existing within pre-1948 borders, sharing a state with the Palestinians based on a 52%-48% land split favoring the Palestinians as the original agreement called for.

While I find the Jewish Religion to be every bit as suspect as Christianity and Islam amongst it's hardcore believers who hide behind it and far too often interpret it in deadly ways, I know based on my own experiences that most Jews, Christians and Muslims are fair minded people who just want an honest days work, and to live in peace.

While they are often manipulated to support causes based on lies and manipulations by the Governments and priests they very much want to trust in because they believe it right, it is the sway that the government and the priests have on them that lead them to often support or believe what is very wrong.

A small band of oligarchs, and royals, and high priests, aligned with a small mafia of people dedicated to living outside the law, are in essence corrupting religions and political processes to manipulate everyone else, and offering those who abide and obey them absolution from the long arm of the law, and the violent organizations that they control.

People who crave absolution and validation aren't likely to ever really fully come to realize the depressing and challenging truth of the systems that are employed to govern and control us, extort and manipulate us, divide and fight us, and otherwise keep us in various forms of ignorance and bondage.

The system if it's to ever be ended will have to be torn down from the top down, because it's a top to bottom system being employed.

It could be much more easily torn down by the bottom up, if people were willing to abandon their religions and national prides to do that, but they aren't likely to in any thing close to a majority that will really take action.

We can assail the failure of the little guy, the average person to do that, and in fact often do through the divisions created in our society, but this too only serves the top as they divide and conquer us by our inclination to rush and judge others in mass.

While harsh criticisms are often valid and deserving, when they fail to be constructively presented it simply paints those infected with religious and national constructs into a corner that makes them defend their love and subscription to such beliefs.

Badly fractured, angry and reeling from centuries of unrighted wrongs through this perverse manipulation humanity more than anything needs a healing message aimed at foregiveness and recognition and a few brave souls willing to challenge and end the status quo with up to and including their last full measure of devotion.

I am not going to give up on my fellow human beings regardless from where they hail, how badly they have been decieved, how angry or hateful they may have become through the course of being exposed to and ruled over by bad leadership.

Humans are inherently good, they just are never really provided the tools by those few who seek power and glory and wealth by being thoroughly bad.

Good guys finish last, and that is the thing that ultimately we have to prove to the oligarchs and mafias that is not true.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agree again 100%

I'm happy to see at least one goal of my post coming to bear fruit.

that was to inspire more and more facts being brought from total darkness into the light ...

after all, we can't hide from the Sun !

IDF .... are YOU listening ????

reply to post by xuenchen


No you can't hide from the sun, but for a few denari you can get some sun protection lotion full of harmful chemicals and poisons to slather on yourself, because a careful campaign by those simply looking to make money and more customers for the chemicals the medical trade they also own and operate has convinced you that you can block out the sun.

Yesterday a mother was convicted in the United States for the death of a child she refused chemotherapy for that was suffering from cancer.

The child would have likely died from the type of cancer anyway, and had a far less pleasant number of last days undergoing the chemotherapy, but the mother denied the state a tax payer, and the pharmacutical companies a pay day, and must accordingly be punished for excersising free will and parental rights.

Her lawyer, a member of the bar and an officer of the court, the state, unsuccesfully argued that she was simply a bit daft bordering on mentally distubred and retarded because in the eyes of the state, that would be the only excuse for exercising free will, and denying it a future taxpayer and it's attached pharmacutical companies a payday.

This is our current state one where freewill and freedom of choice can hardly be utilized at all because of endless codes and laws dictating the desired response in every situation and variable.

One of the biggest problems I have with some of the pro-Zionists is the arrogance in which they promote arguments based on always adhering to official stories, and the edicts of the state as being sacrosanct and wrong to question.

Meanwhile the War on Terror made almost entirely possibly by our national support of Israel in carte blanche ways that often defy the will of the International Community is at the heart of our over stated and manipulated terrorist problem, as prior to that policy in the immediate post world war II landscape in the Middle East America was considered the fairest nation on earth as we had never been a colonial power in the region.

Today we occupy huge swaths of the region as a colonial power, often the pretext for doing that has been protecting Israel.

Wait a second did I say protecting Israel, what do we do when running a protection racket? Find someone to protect!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Assuming the place it was hit was exposed enough to allow it to get hit, it was probably moved for safety reasons..

Standard procedure in any military, by the way.

You guys have got to stop bickering like a bunch of little girls..

With respect,
Eliad.

Well here is the rub, not saying that is or isn't true. If that part of Southern Israel being occupied illegally per the UN by the Israelis is within striking distance of Gaza munitions why are school children being left exposed in it.

edit on 16/4/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)

HU...hmmm....WHAT? Are you now saying that part of Israel is also illegally occupied?

But there is another interesting part to that quot.
Are you finally acknowledging the fact that the Palestinians are in fact firing into Israel and targeting civilians? I was under the impression that it's all the Mossad doings.
Ah, go figure.

Originally posted by gravitational

HU...hmmm....WHAT? Are you now saying that part of Israel is also illegally occupied?

But there is another interesting part to that quot.
Are you finally acknowledging the fact that the Palestinians are in fact firing into Israel and targeting civilians? I was under the impression that it's all the Mossad doings.
Ah, go figure.

Israel is an illegal occupation.

The entire quasi-state is housed upon land that is, to this day, subject to UN resolutions concerning illegal occupation.
If it were not for the veto power of the US, then this would be exposed for all to see.

It is impossible for an illegally occupied territory to be illegally occupied.

As far as the munitions coming from Gaza....
Just as the average peace loving Isreali is being held hostage by the terrorist STATE of Israel, the same can be said for the Palestinians and the leaders of Hamas.

And the same can be said for the USAtm.

Palestinians cannot fire into anything.
They are not even a people with a land anymore.
The land that was once theirs has been illegally occupied by the Zionists.

Hamas is sleazy, but so are the Zionists.
Both employ propaganda/terrorism to keep their people in check.

reply to post by gravitational


Ah Gravitational a day without your posts would be like a day without sunshine.

No as you can see by the above statement that I am not 'admitting' or 'saying' that the Palestinians carried out the attack on the bus.

I am saying that if the area is known to be under the range of Palestinian munitions and dangerous to the point that the Israeli Army itself would not feel safe there, why is a school bus traversing it daily?

Further why are people jeapardizing their children by raising and schooling them in a war zone?

When in reality those people are recent arrivals to that area, through a process of war, that claimed the land, which is considered to be illegally occupied by them by the United Nations.

If it is that dangerous to the military, and subsequently children, why is it not set up as a no man's land buffer zone.

That Palestinians do fire rockets into Occupied Southern Israel is fact and known.

That the type of rocket being used in this case is not established in many peoples minds, and that the Palestinians firing it is not established in many people's minds.

That though doesn't negate or supercede the fact that.

1. The land is being illegally occupied by the Israelis
2. Hamas does sometimes fire home made rockets into that illegally occupied area.
3. That the range of those known rockets is not great, and since the land is being contested through war, it wouldn't be wise for caring parents who had an option not to, to not live with their children or send them to school in a live fire zone.

I hate to break it to you, but I can honestly say if I was an Israeli parent, having purposefully chosen to settle with my family or start one in a contested war zone, that if anything happened to my child as a result of it, I would look no further than the mirror for the bulk of my anger.

I would hold myself responsible, because it was me who made the decision to endanger my child.

Israelis can't in fact pretend this land is not contested, they know fully well that it is.

They settle it anyway and put themselves and their children in harms way.

In my book this makes them terrible parents, and as much responsible if not more responsible than any entity who is carrying out violence in that contested war zone.

It's not as if Zionists were peacefully living there for generation after generation and all of a sudden through no fault of their own war came to them.

It is rather a case of Zionists violently taking the land and making it theirs De Facto as a matter of Fact by them being there, as opposed to De Jure as a matter of law.

This is one thing angry pro-Zionists often seem to totally neglect, rotten parents, for religious or economic reasons endangering their children by settling in a war zone on contested land violently taken and stolen.

I wouldn't live there or want my kids there for all the money in the world.

In fact if it were up to me I would prosecute the parents for wreckless endangerment of their children.

I am wise enough to realize some tragedies are entirely avoidable, shame on Israeli parents who don't recognize the same.

Over the decades since the establishment of Israel, the nation and its citizens have been attacked relentlessly, by both guerrilla groups as well as nations and coalitions of nations.

This shot at a school bus is just another incident that demonstrates this ongoing war against the nation and its citizens.

Speaking strictly militarily, when you have identified your enemy, if you wish to survive and prevail, you must destroy that enemy. Not pick at them, not accommodate them, not give in to them, but the most basic military principle of defeating an enemy is to destroy him.

I was visiting a friend in the hospital and went to the facility dining room. I found myself at a table with two elderly men, and found out one was an original Eagle Squadron American pilot who went to Canada, joined their Air Force, and went to England and flew Spits against Germany in 1940 and 1941.

The other was a B-17 bomber pilot with the Eighth. I asked the bomber pilot if his bombs over cities ever gave him second thoughts, and was really not all that surprised by his response. I'll do the best at quoting him,

"Nope. I figured the faster we killed the Germans, the faster the war would be over. The more we killed today, the fewer we have to kill tomorrow, and the day after that. I wanted to live, and more than anything, I wanted to go home. And the only way to do that was to kill lots and lots of Germans. If there was a way to kill them all tomorrow, then I'd do it, as that would mean the war would be over tomorrow."

In every war or conflict, there is a number. No one beforehand knows the number. But there is a number, when reached, where one side decides that they are too weak to kill further, and unwilling to die further.

The sooner one side kills enough to reach that number, the sooner that nation will have their peace.

When you find yourself attacked by enemies, to do less than total war is to prolong the suffering of everyone. The more you can kill faster, in the greatest numbers, with the greatest efficiency, in the shortest time, the sooner you will have destroyed your enemies, never to rise again.

Oh. There's always another enemy on the horizon, but at least this one is gone.

This principle has nothing to do with religion, politics, culture, or racial influences. It's an absolute principle of warfare. You kill all your enemies, then there is no way in hell they can fight you again.

Which frees you up for the next enemy.

And Proto. Very enlightening on the history of the gods of the Middle East, but I wasn't talking so much about that.

I'm confident that by the year 600 the Jews knew who their God was, because the Christians knew the same God. The Allah of Muhammed BY HIS OWN WORDS was a different god.

Simple. Muhammed said so himself.

reply to post by FarArcher


This is simply Willian Tecumsah Shermans scorched earth policy, where he set out to prove that the South was a paper tiger, burning and pillaging his way from Atlanta to the sea.

Yes it's a sound military doctrine but lets examine a couple of things regarding the Israelis and the nation.

Prior to Hitler immigration by Jews and Zionists was rarely more than 10,000 individuals a year, averaging about 6,200 over the pre-war years.

These were not enough people to change the status quo, to wrest control from the British or to begin displacing the Arabs.

Futher as Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill mused in corespondences with Lord Rothschild of London who was bankrollng most of the immigration and the settlements, that many of the people immigrating were as he put it "Lazy uneducated Eastern European and Russian Jews" as opposed to the much better educated and enterprising cosmopolitan European and American Jews who they believed were needed to make a viable and sustainable settlement of Jews and Zionists in the region.

Yet what this all represents is a coordinated invasion of a land by an outside force not indeginous to it.

So it's a little hard for those entering another land through migration to be considered the defenders.

So this is the first falacy in the whole Israeli Agrument.

They are not the defenders they are the agressors, an invading force into a land where they were not indeginous.

Next lets look at what caused the migration to become a massive one. The Nazi War in Europe and the Nazi Persecution of Jews.

Before we do that lets examine Diaspora the forced expulsion of the Jews from the Roman States of Judea and Samaria.

Where they eventually spread out not to Israel but nearly every country on earth where they remain.

So in reality there was no need for the Jews looking to escape persecution in Europe to go specifically to Israel and in fact many didn't, like they had been for centuries during their spread, they simply went to other nations.

Now lets examine the next falacy, Jews needed a homeland where they could never be persecuted or violently attacked again.

Well what happened after they invaded this land violently and with dishonest intent?

They were attacked, so in reality this is no safe haven at all for Jews, and never likely will be since they are an invading migratory force, and not a indeginous defending force.

Lets continue on with the falacy of all this, the Jews are defending themselves in the Holy Land of Israel promised to them by God.

Their scriptures tell them only the Messiah can lead them back to Israel, so no, God has not given them the land in anyway shape and form, as a Messiah did not appear to lead them there as their religion states must happen.

Further the bulk of the worlds Jews over 80% of their known numbers make a choice to not live in Israel, whether it be to not offend God, or for economic reasons or safety concerns.

So imagining that Israel is a peaceful nation designed to be a Jewish Homeland, even though hardly a Jewish person alive today could trace an ancestor back to Israel in Biblical and Roman times is absurd.

It was a nation born of a rich bankers political desires, populated by desperate immigrants or ones violently looking to birth a nation through a violent process meant to displace an entire people from their land.

Those aren't the defenders, those are the attackers.

Why do real defenders attempt to repel invaders, because they are invading, and likely to cause trouble and violence as they look to dominate and supplant who was there.

This is Israel, not a nation of poor victims. But rather victimizers.

The Palestinians didn't persecute them in Europe, and cause them to seek haven any haven elsewhere.

If anything the German nation should have been forced to absorb all the Jewish Refugees they created.

The whole thing is a massive manipulation, a political, banking and religious manipulation.

Most of the arguments pro-Israel are easily dismissed once you simply take an honest non-emotional look at what actually transpired.

I feel badly for what happened to the Jews in Europe during the Nazi reign of terror, but that really doesn't give them license to steal another people's land and to persecute them for it through a massive invasion and propaganda and military war.

Finally those who will say, Israel wanted to live in peace, it sure didn't when it was killing British Soldiers and UN Diplomats through terrorist gangs.

The Arabs attacked them, and we all do enough baiting here on ATS to know how easy that is.

I don't buy it at all, Israel is not Kosher per it's religion, the Messiah didn't lead the Jews there.

It birthed itself through violence directed at every party that meant to keep it defined and confined to an agreement it broke.

It's made no attempt to compensate the people it's displaced, even though Israel is still making Germans and other nations pay for offences committed against them by the Nazis that displaced them.

It's a political and religious manipulation meant to offend and divide us all, and it does.

How to defend that?

I sure can't.

Thanks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by FarArcher

 

This is simply Willian Tecumsah Shermans scorched earth policy, where he set out to prove that the South was a paper tiger, burning and pillaging his way from Atlanta to the sea.

Sherman didn't think of nor believe the South was a paper tiger.

His doctrine was to make DAMNED sure the Rebels wouldn't rise again and left them in ashes for a reason. He knew that was the only way to truly defeat them. Which was to destroy their present and future generations ability to wage war. He knew they would think twice about it afterward.

Sherman was the first AMERICAN general to embrace the principle of total war. He was the first AMERICAN general to follow no anticipated line of approach.

The principle of destruction of your enemies goes back beyond written history.

And no, the Israelis are not the invaders.

If I were a believer in the promises made to the Jews, but that have yet to be fulfilled, I'd say that the consistent defeats of coalitions arrayed against Israel are almost a series of miracles.

Each time Israel was attacked, look at the maps before the 1948-49 war, and immediately after.

Look at the map immediately before June of 1967, and look at it right after the war. Had the UN not stepped in, they could have doubled that area twice again in another couple weeks, and Damascus, Cairo, and Amman would be Israeli territories.

Look yet again at what happened in 1973. Once again, Damascus and Cairo could have easily become Israeli territory - but for the whining and crying of those who initiated the attacks.

To try to clutter the basic principles at work here with ancillary considerations is just fluff. Anti-Israeli propaganda designed to confuse those who are deficient in their secular history.

Now why do you want to confuse the simple facts?

I'll be the first to admit you're very well informed, brilliant on so many levels, and as charming as a storybook prince.

But Proto - you're clouding the water.

Originally posted by Josephus23
The entire quasi-state is housed upon land that is, to this day, subject to UN resolutions concerning illegal occupation.
If it were not for the veto power of the US, then this would be exposed for all to see.

But not only do we have the UN with double standards when it comes to zionist controlled iserail we also have the media that is reporting a pack of lies most the time and it is best to side against them than with them because time and again they have been proven to lie.

Thses people are itching to destroy the temple mount and in the fairy land that passes for main stream media they think we are so stupid that we would fall for a story about a sucide bomber bring the dome down by accident.

Nothing is quesations when you control the MSM and only interview people that say day is night and this is why the internet has taken over when it comes to real news.

Speaking of that Temple Mount.

Now that Palestinians, Gazans, and Hizballah up north have missiles, this could provide Israel with a real opportunity.

After all, it would not be Israel's fault if an errant missile or two, fired by Muslims, levels the mosque currently occupying the site.

Wow.

reply to post by FarArcher


From a tactical standpoint, the thing that has really been the Arab armies undoing is a lack of communication capabilities and shared tactical doctrine.

Bringing complex ellements of several nations armies into a cohesive fighting force is not easy.

This is why most western militaries conduct massive drills with their allied partner armies in war games to practice manuevering and communicating together and to establish clear unified chains of command and shared communications protoclos.

Often when the West is conducting War Games the East will conduct their own, while at the same time doing their best to observe the manuevers and tactical ellements and how they are echeloned and massed in the field.

If one looks at Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo, perhaps his most critical of several mistakes was believing his artillery could compensate for the Prussians yet to arrive as elements of his force.

While some might argue Wellington had sucessfully used the terain to bait Napoleon into a hasty attack by making his forces appear much smaller through the skillful use of it, others might argue Napoleon didn't want to share the glory with the Prussians.

This also can be a problem when joint forces not used to fighting together are approaching the battlefield(s) from different points and times of egress as Custer like commanders out for glory and fame commit their forces hastily.

History tells us in Israel's case that the combined forces of several Arab armies attacked at once, but in reality they attacked piecemeal and seperately, dillutiing their numbers.

Now finally the Miracle that saved the Israelis in the 1972 War when Tel Aviv was hours from being overrun was President Nixon sending civilian 747 after 747 into the airport loaded with ammunition and special forces troop to beat back the invasion.

Hardly a miracle from God this was just the US Taxpayer ponying up it's money and sons to take sides in a foreign dispute our forefathers told us to never do.

While it is heavily denied to this day as America for the sake of oil tried to feign nuetrality this act on the part of Johnson firmly convinced the Arabs that we were not a neutral party to the conflict and began in many ways the foundation for the war on terror.

Anytime you want to know real history or anything about the military you let me know!

Thanks.