Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

Originally posted by FarArcher
If some ahole just put a hole in a big, brightly painted bus, then before I proceed to put too much effort in examining it, I'm sure as hell going to get it OUT of this location, where it's kind of obvious that the Hamas has a line of sight.

Do we now put a forensics crowd around it and stay in the same place? Dear God, I used to love seeing my enemies congregated together. Even if I missed the one I was about to shoot at, I stood a very good chance of hitting SOMEONE.

People, do we just lose all common sense here?

The Israelis are not as dumb as many on this thread.

OK. The sniper has just shot the last guy standing right here. Where do you NOT want to stand?

I had an uncle in the 4th Transport out of Saigon. He had two jobs - other than the paperwork. One was occasionally running supplies up into the camps in the mountains, and the other was vehicle recovery of both tracked and wheeled vehicles that the Viet Cong hit on Highway 1. According to him, several of those vehicles hit on Highway 1 were hit for bait, and the VC would sit and wait on someone to be sent to get them. Since the vehicle was already disabled, it wasn't a matter of just firing it up and running through the kill zone. It sort of defined "sitting ducks".

That's why he was always one of the ones sent. My family has been expendables for generations, and we just can't seem to die on cue like they'd prefer. He's STILL kicking around by the way, still up in the mountains, and mobile. has a winter camp and a summer camp, and says life is good!

reply to post by nenothtu


Great bit of Family History there, tell him we all said Hi here at ATS and to save us a place for when the SHTF!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Proto you might be on to something because our friend Yischair a former IDF soldier posting to this thread said he personally knew people effected.

He said a lot of things. First that he was Israeli and was a member of the IDF. Then on another thread he claimed to be a full blooded Britt. I don't know what else he claimed because he is no longer a member making claims.

I find his claims Dubious.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Here is what is really bizarre some of the kits, the red boxes and white bags are in the same spot on the side of the road at the same angle even though the backgroud has completely changed.

That's pretty bizarre, in yet a third picture hinting at a third location those items are still present but in a different position.

That's a lot of stuff to photo shop out and back in on a different background.

Do those pictures appear photo shopped at all?

It's kind of strange why the soldiers are all carrying rifles too, they certainly wouldn't be picking up too many things easily off the ground the way they have them slung.

On the surface they look like propaganda photo ops, are brave soldiers heavily armed respond to the scene type of thing.

You know, Proto, it just so happens that I've been studying up on Photoshop Forensics lately. I've even got a PDF of the manual around here somewhere. I'll go ahead and put them under the spy glass and see what I can tell from it, but I don't hold out much hope, since it's not likely that any of them are first-generation pictures. That will make it a bit more difficult.

If the EXIF data hasn't been stripped out, Photoshop leaves markers through all subsequent copies, even if the picture itself degrades. If the EXIF HAS been striped out, then I'll have to rely on evidence in the picture itself, while will degrade over generations, just like a film photo does.

I got into that specifically because I've seen some questionable photos posted at ATS, and wanted to be able o know more. Oddly, I've found that in some cases, simply posting a picture here, using the ATS media portal to store it, renames the picture AND strips out the EXIF info, and in other cases it doesn't. I don't know why, but it's weird.

If I find they've been photoshopped, that opens a whole 'nuther can of worms than the one being sought. My question then is WHY Photoshop them to begin with, if they're trying to perpetrate a hoax. It seems far less likely to pass if they intentionally Photoshop the same scene onto obviously different backgrounds. It would be a lot of work, and only yield negative results - negative to a successful perpetration, that is. That makes no sense to me, but then I'm just a regular old hillbilly, and may not be able to fathom multiple layers of intrigue that run that deep.

Now, I can see why the Palestinians, being in opposition to the Israelis, would try to perpetrate a hoax, make it obvious that it's a hoax, and then lay it on the Israeli doorstep to try to discredit them, but I can't see a good reason why the Israelis would try to discredit themselves in the matter.

BTW, there is a freeware picture viewer called "IrfanView" that handles most any picture format, and will directly read the EXIF data in a jpeg if it's there to be read, if you'd care to try your own hand at that.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Great bit of Family History there, tell him we all said Hi here at ATS and to save us a place for when the SHTF!

I dunno, man. Might not want to associate yourself with either the conspiracy crowd or me if you ever get up that way. He tells me the hatband in my tinfoil is a bit too tight...

Record keeping and data tracking procedure for analysis of these photos:

I'm going through the thread, page by page, and saving the photos locally for analysis. In the course of doing that, I'm recording in a separate text file the following:

1)the file name of the photo

2)the url to the specific post it come from, keyed to that file.

3)Any external source URLs that the photo came from

4)a locally saved copy of the photo from that source URL, with the two associated in the records so that I know what came from where.

Just going through the thread and gathering all of this into one spot may take a while, before I actually get into the Sherlock Holmes part of it. Some of the photos are screen captures, unsourced, so they'll be relatively worthless from the standpoint of the forensics. Probably no EXIF, and definitely no first generation information.

If anyone can think of anything else I need to record or link, post it here so I can get on it.

neno

reply to post by nenothtu


I am interested to see what you find from the photos, if anything.

The story does not add up, in my humble opinion.

I am not saying that Hamas did not take credit for the incident.
I am also not saying that Hamas is not as sick as the Israelis.

In my opinion, they are all taking marching orders from the same people up top.

Slayer69 brought up that idea earlier in the thread and I would agree with him.

My personal distess, and I hate to even use that word, is with the people of Gaza.
People who are trapped, suffering and dying for no undue reason.

Looking forward to your report nenothtu.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Proto you might be on to something because our friend Yischair a former IDF soldier posting to this thread said he personally knew people effected.

He said a lot of things. First that he was Israeli and was a member of the IDF. Then on another thread he claimed to be a full blooded Britt. I don't know what else he claimed because he is no longer a member making claims.

I find his claims Dubious.

edit on 15-4-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Well you can be an Israeli and be born in another country. He told me he was in the IDF and then the British Army. I know he was very upset, and I mean very upset on the Poppy Day thread a few months back when there were some Islamic protests in Britan on their rememberence day. I can't imagine someone who didn't serve getting that upset.

I liked the guy, but then again, I like everyone.

Here's to you Yischair...

reply to post by nenothtu


Hey thanks for the information on the online photoshop viewer, did you spot what I was talking about the red tool box and the white bag deposited right outside the bus door in an identical spot on a identical grade on the side of the road with two different landscape backgrounds?

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Great bit of Family History there, tell him we all said Hi here at ATS and to save us a place for when the SHTF!

I dunno, man. Might not want to associate yourself with either the conspiracy crowd or me if you ever get up that way. He tells me the hatband in my tinfoil is a bit too tight...

Proto in one of his many incarnations in life sold cars in North Carolina, believe me when I say I can pretend to be anyone I need to be.

We had a business manager who used to delight after he got every last finance paper and contract signed then saying to the customer "Why would you buy a car from a Yankee like Proto" and they would look at him and say "What are you talking about he's from Sherrils Ford" and then he would say "No he's not he's from Pittsburgh you fell for that phoney accent?".

All the world's a stage my friend, and I am...

reply to post by nenothtu


Try sending a U2U to xuenchen since he has found most of them.

Tell him proto send you and that the rain in Spain falls mainly in the plains and that chili cheeseburgers are best not eaten on a bumpy train.

(That’s the code, but what ever you do don’t let it get out on the Internet)

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Finished gathering them up and keeping records. There weren't as many as I thought. 9 pictures from the thread, only one of which was sourced that I could go get a copy from the original site. Xencheun posted 7 of them in two separate posts all by his lonesome, but didn't list the source URL(s). Also snatched the videos (3 total, two of which were the same video posted by separate members) and tossed one copy of one of the videos, since it was posted twice by the same member. The videos may prove useful in connecting the separate viewing angles.

All of those were posted in only 4 posts throughout the thread. Additionally, I found 12 more pictures in the Arabic language section of the al Qassam (militant wing of Hamas) website.

None of the photos, including the ones from al Qassam, had any EXIF info present. Several of the al Qassam photos apparently came from the Israeli site www.hnn.co.il , and a couple of them appeared to be video captures from news reports.

Verified that at least two different photo sites are in play - one has a solid yellow line to the left of the bus, and the other has a dotted yellow line. What we were calling a luggage compartment open at the rear of the bus may be an engine access instead - at least in the video you can see through to the engine, so if it was a luggage compartment, the back side of it was blown out. Also, in the videos you can see the access doors to that compartment, whatever it is, are open on both sides of the bus, not just the left side.

Since there is no EXIF data for a quick fix, I'll have to blow them up (no pun intended) and peek at pixels. Don't hold out much hope for that, since they are copies of copies at least, and every successive re-save introduces more JPEG artifacts that will tend to reduce overall quality, and hide blemishes from Photoshop in the noise.

reply to post by nenothtu


Unrelated question for you. I was a bit mortified when following the link Gravitational posted early in the thread that I had arrived at the Hamas website.

I wonder if there is any risk involved in visiting the official website of a declared terrorist organization from a homeland security standpoint.

Do we risk being placed on a terrorist watch list if our IP addresses are traced back to our computers and connected with our names.

I know that sounds a bit paranoid but I felt immediately dirtied and cheapened like I had been screwed with no kiss when to my horror I saw I had the Hamas web site up on my computer.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That's spooky. Sherrill's Ford is out next to Statesville. I had an ex-sister in law that lived there. She didn't like me much, therefore anything she may have said about me was a damn lie!

Alright man, now I am convinced that this whole thing was staged. Just check this out. They are apparently practicing their theatrics while they believe no one is watching!

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

That's spooky. Sherrill's Ford is out next to Statesville. I had an ex-sister in law that lived there. She didn't like me much, therefore anything she may have said about me was a damn lie!

Statesville was pretty close, I used to love to drive up there to go to the three pigs barbeque (best I ever tasted) and JR Wholesalers where you could buy a case of cigarrette cartons for about 9.00 a carton.

Pretty old town, I would take the wife and kids tricker or treating up there, lots of spooky old victorian houses and great big oak trees and elms.

I had a nice house up on the north west tip of lake norman, didn't get to enjoy it much working 14 hours a day 6 days a week but nice place for the kids to play.

Great area and nice people,

reply to post by jackflap


Those rotten no good palestinian animals slipping '___' into those poor brave soldiers canteens!

Where does it all end?

Where does it all end?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Just a little lightheartedness to break up the seriousness! I laughed my butt off when I saw that because I imagined that they really didn't know they were being taped. Who knows, it was choreographed very well anyway.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Unrelated question for you. I was a bit mortified when following the link Gravitational posted early in the thread that I had arrived at the Hamas website.

I wonder if there is any risk involved in visiting the official website of a declared terrorist organization from a homeland security standpoint.

Do we risk being placed on a terrorist watch list if our IP addresses are traced back to our computers and connected with our names.

I know that sounds a bit paranoid but I felt immediately dirtied and cheapened like I had been screwed with no kiss when to my horror I saw I had the Hamas web site up on my computer.

I wouldn't worry overmuch about it. I've been there several times during this thread, and haven't seen the first black SUV yet. When you want the news, you go to the source, and DHS can just understand that, or kiss my rosy-red. I'm not on good terms with those folks at the moment anyhow. It's not like they have an honest function to perform - or, if there's one hidden in there somewhere, it's not like that's what they're actually doing. They seem to me to be just an excuse to give someone's nieces or nephews a nice fat paycheck.

If it really worries you, get the TOR browser, and just use it to roll towards those sorts of sites. Takes 'em a while to untangle the proxy web unless they happen to be operating an exit node, and DHS has grannies to harass at airports and illegal aliens to support and defend down at the border. - they just don't have time to track down every TOR user who trips over a Hamas website.

I wouldn't post a Ron Paul bumper sticker or discuss Constitutional issues near them, though - that's subversive for US citizens to do these days. If you're a foreign national, though, those things ought to be ok to go with.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


We used to do what we called the "Swan lake" - long, sweeping ballet type leaps, complete with dramatic arm flinging out to the sides and the whole nine yards, as long as no one was looking. It's a great way to draw fire to find out where the opposition is, if 1) it doesn't scare the hell out of them, thinking you've gone over the edge, and 2) they can hold steady through the laughter.

Sometimes I think the shock of it, and the rubbing of the eyes, caused them to forget what they were about for just long enough.

Gotta worry about worse than snipers these days, though. There's cameras EVERYWHERE!