Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

reply to post by jackflap

Your suggestion that I join up is a bit immature and stupid.

I've already taken my scalps, and besides, if I read things correctly, it won't be a bunch of men doing most of the killing.

Correct that there's nothing to be done with it, as those places and people noted have really done His people wrong in the past, and He's going to set things right.

After all, a promise is a promise.

But His promises are really promises.

You have a problem with that - quit that petty crap with me and take it up with Him.

I'm sure you'll give Him pause.


And that Book of Life? Just what makes you think your name will be there?

Me? I guarantee I'll meet my Maker with great fear and trembling. I have a lot to answer for. But I won't be apologizing for not taking Him at His word.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Proto, I know it's getting late and probably past your bed time, but even you can't read the words for yourself and be that dense.

It's clearly saying that whatever is arrayed against Israel - men, weapons, nations, coalitions - they aren't going anywhere, and will never be driven off the land again.

Funny. The Old Testament never actually mention specific counter-missile systems.

Even if it did, there'd still be some who would require the serial numbers to prove anything.

Get yourself some rest and you can have another go tomorrow when you're refreshed.

reply to post by FarArcher


Actually with the religious crowd who reads anything they want it to this vague stuff it's easy to pretend it means anything you want it to mean.

However a nation is it's people, and so if the nation of Israel can not be hurt by any weapon that means it's people can not be hurt by any weapon.

Or were you like talking the dirt can't be hurt by any weapon.

As far as being run off the land half of Miami Beach is Israelis here illegally who would do anything up to and including marrying proto to not have to go back.

Meanwhile 80% of the world's Jews don't want to live there, go figure.

You funny!

reply to post by Josephus23

Get over yourself.

Your moral code is not one whit higher than mine. In fact, come time, it's probably going to prove a bit lower. You can criticize others from a self-perceived, mighty high standard - but likely you're just as violent as anyone else - you just haven't been tested yet.

Hope you get your chance, though.

A long way to fall.

reply to post by Josephus23

For one seemingly so uninformed - other than his own personal position on this, here you go railing against killing folks who may need killing.

Now if I were to mention a few names, I doubt you'd have a clue who they were - indicating that your position is highly selective and extremely contrived.

Now without looking them up, just how many of you know who in hell I'm talking about? Who were they? How were they known? What was their task/profession, and who did they serve?

Josheb Basshebeth? Tachmonite? Eleazar, son of Dodo? Shammah, son of Agee?

Elhanan. Helez. Ira. Zalman.

And another twenty something.

These were honorable men.

And I don't see anyone badmouthing them.

Because, they were killing the same folks I previously mentioned that are reserved for a special surprise, but they were doing it long ago.

reply to post by FarArcher

Your suggestion that I join up is a bit immature and stupid.

I never suggested you join anything. The paragraph is describing a mind set that I believe is fomented from a lackadaisical outlook on the violence in the Middle East because of the prophecies describing the chaos. I know people who actually applaud the violence as a sign that Biblical prophecies are unfolding. This is what I meant to convey in that paragraph.

Correct that there's nothing to be done with it, as those places and people noted have really done His people wrong in the past, and He's going to set things right. After all, a promise is a promise. But His promises are really promises.

So you don't believe that the coming Armageddon can be stopped because He promised us it would happen? You do not believe these things were told to us in advance so that we could use the brain that He gave us to thwart unnecessary violence and murder? Senseless deaths that have nothing to do with the attributes of a loving God. We are to sit back and enjoy as you put it?

And that Book of Life? Just what makes you think your name will be there? Me? I guarantee I'll meet my Maker with great fear and trembling. I have a lot to answer for. But I won't be apologizing for not taking Him at His word.

I have no doubt about what was told me. I will not be apologizing for sitting back and delighting in the violence that I was warned about and letting it happen without even trying.

Your words here my friend and this is the attitude I was trying to convey in my paragraph.

For example, not yet has Damascus disappeared between sundown and sunup. Nor Amman. Nor Gaza. Nor the WestBankers. Just sit back and enjoy.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


No, Proto, it's not that difficult to read simple words and understand them.

You don't seem to have any trouble putting Rome at the center of every damned thing that's occurred the past twenty centuries, and you seem to have the capacity to make unbelievable connections where evidence is so thin it's damn near invisible -

BUT, you can't read simple words, and understand them?

If you put one one-hundredth of the time going back over the Old book that you've put into the Great Roman Experience, you'd know the same damned thing I do.

Know it.

Now I know you can read.

Let's face it. You don't want to know.

reply to post by FarArcher


Hey buddy make sure to sign off turn on the software and throw another 8 stars on that and then sign back on!

Dude if I find out the HB Gary Software is being used on this site, I just want to tell you straight up, there will be a price to pay.

8 people are not following this thread at midnight on a Satuday night at midnight to star petty insults in under a minute flat.

reply to post by FarArcher


Dude you are on ignore, and the invitation if you are ever in town is off.

I see what you are doing signing off, making these posts, signing back on, after arranging a bunch of stars on your posts.

Seriously don't even bother responding to me I won't be responding to you after this post.

reply to post by jackflap

That same loving God you're referring to?

He also demands obedience first. You do what he says, you reap the rewards.

If one takes the entire Old Testament and had to boil it down to one word - that would be obedience.

His creation, His house, His to do with as He pleases. This thing doesn't revolve around what I think.

Nor what you think.

Our opinions don't mean squat.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You arrogant ass. I don't even know what in hell you're talking about!

Right now I have a house full of kids, and I on occasion have to leave my computer to swat someone's ass or help them do something.

I don't know why you've suddenly got a weed up your butt, but it sounds like you're just a bitter man who can't stand the argument.

If you could make a rational reply - maybe you wouldn't get your ass spanked here on this thread.

Go play with your Roman pilium or gladius.

This is apparently way over your head.

Originally posted by nenothtu
Had a big post typed up to report, and my browser ate it.

Stupid browsers.

Anyhow, the long and the short of it is that I found no evidence for manipulation beyond a possible rectangular "patch" in the sky in one of them. No discrepancies on the ground, or in the apparent intended subjects of the photos. Looks like 3 different photo locations, going by the lines (or lack thereof) in the roads.

Some photos appear to have trees and such where others from the same photo site don't show them, but that appears to be a function of the angles the pictures were taken from, combines with varying focal lengths on different cameras. Had the EXIF information not been stripped out of them, it would show the type of camera used and the settings it had when the photo was taken.

I'll go snag the photos from Xenchuen's source site now and look them over.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Well the confirmation of three locations is important because it dispells the assumption the bus was simply moved to get it out of potential harms way.

They took the bus on a photo op tour it appears.

Staging scenes as they did with teddy bears and other stuff for pure propaganda value it would seem.

Getting mileage out of that mileage.

It would be interesting to find out how they transported it from point to point and if it was actually drivable still.

Thanks for taking the time to do that project for the thread.

Great of you!

Dynamite !! your time is worth everything.

this confirms the photos are probably not doctored up. no false flag set-up from the Hamas's.

coordinated effort? - yes maybe.

I still think this false flag was a training exercise.

My instructions are to file all paperwork on this matter with "FALSE FLAG" rubber stamps on all documents.


the IDF failed again. What did you learn from this Israel ?

after 60+ years, we still see Israel not protecting their own citizens - unbelievable !!!

whether this "Magic Bus" incident is genuine or whether its a FF, the IDF looks pretty weak having not been able to stop yet another pie throwing contest in its' own back yard !!!!

again they stepped in the dog pile left by the same hound that craps on their front lawn every morning day after day after day and hides in the bushes and laughs as the IDF tracks the hound's dirt right into their own livingrooms. !!

they let bright yellow school buses travel all over combat areas and what did ya expect ?

how come the parents didn't squawk ?

where were the arm chair armies and sofa soldiers BEFORE this happened, and where have they been since ?

certainly not protecting your citizens......you have been under a siege for a few months now RIGHT ?

no precautions AGAIN ?

WHO is doing ANYTHING to stop these wise punks anyway ???

WHY can't you guys over there put an end to this simple problem ??

the Israeli Army ? the Navy -- I mean McHales Navy. ?

I hope your descendents can read Chinese a thousand years from now when the history books depict an ancient civilization whose mighty military couldn't even protect themselves from street punks with bottle rockets and roman candles. and the same civilization only shot back with M80's and became the worst military failure in history !!!

They will laugh for decades about the Magic Bus who got butt-kicked by a pea shooter.

congratulations Israel, you have graduated from court jesters to the laughing stock of the world !!!

ya, 4 billion people are laughing right about now..how does THAT feel ?

you guys really need to wake up and stop whining and crying and bitching every time you create a problem for yourselves --- especially when you just can't seem to solve anything !!!

step up and take what you think is yours !!!!!

and by all means -- do it by yourselves -- if you can !

one of these days you may have a problem finding sponsors.

under-performers don't stay popular for too long !!!

your balance sheet is tilted -- your failures keep increasing by the hour -- your accomplishments keep dropping off the map.

I warned you in a prior post to be careful ..... if the Mexicans decide to take a vacation in Israel .... you might really be in deep trouble !!!!

reply to post by xuenchen


One thing is for sure, with the bus being moved to three seperate locations it seemed to be on some kind of propaganda tour.

You would think they would want to get that bus put back together so they could determine the precise point of impact and try to work up a trajectory to trace back to where it was fired.

To then bomb that area or at least put it under some kind of surveillence or investigation.

Evidently the IDF doesn't take the threat seriously enough to do a competent and professional investigation.

That's pretty shocking.

I think we have seen from some of the Christian extemists on this thread, how committed to violence they are.

It doesn't seem like they give much more thought to their own kids than the children of their enemies that they kill by the hundreds with standoff and attack weapons in attacks that never bring them anywhere close to being in harms way themselves.

Pretty much just a managed process of death.

reply to post by FarArcher

His creation, His house, His to do with as He pleases. This thing doesn't revolve around what I think. Nor what you think. Our opinions don't mean squat.

So we appear on this rock hurling through space and realize that we are at the mercy of a God who tells us He loves us. We are then told we will have peace and bliss for eternity if we believe Him and obey Him. We will be in utter torment if we reject Him and disobey Him.

Now, we appeared on this rock and were given two choices that are eternal apparently. First, who thought we wanted to play this game to begin with? Second, we see the Ten Commandments telling us not to kill but it's ok if He tells us to because this is how He takes care of who needs killing here and uses us to do it even though He told us not to.

We appeared on this rock and find ourselves in a world that is going to destroy itself because He has promised us this. We can do nothing about this because a promise is a promise after all and He loves us and will keep this promise to the bitter end for us. Again, who said we wanted in on this seemingly sadistic grudge match?

I could go on and on about things that don't add up and I believe I can do this because He has given me the capacity to do just that.

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter

Why is that? I don't know..

reply to post by jackflap

One little mistake that's throwing your entire argument off.

I know, I KNOW the King James Version reads, "Thou shalt not kill." The Hebrew word for "kill" as I understand it is "harag."

The verb that appears in the Torah is "ratsah" which means murder.

You can kill all day long in self defense, in battle, and not murder anyone.

reply to post by jackflap


Here we see how the religious constructs of the tyranical militant police state and their brainwashed henchmen play out.

Your opinion does not matter, you are irellevant, discount yourself and submit.

What an utter crock of self defeatist insulting garbage.

That they have sold this nonsense at all has been through a violent spread of introducing it and maintaining it by the sword.

History clearly shows that.

They tell us to discount this violent process as the work of yesteryear, that this progressive band of psycopants that still tells human beings that they are nothing, and should not consider themselves anything is still not at play murdering and enforcing this nonsense, despite the fact that they are still murdering and talking this nonsense.

There is some imagined reward after death it's all a test.

A test to see if you are a complete brain dead moron willing to submit to any tryant and his armed henchmen who sell their souls for a few dollars and medals and the praise that the state insists is their due.

This all starts with Israel and it's concept of God and yet we pretend as they angrily and insulting tell people they are nothing and their opinions aren't relevant, but theirs are when it comes to this nonsense is just pure manure.

Not a spiritual shred in any of these concepts.

reply to post by FarArcher

ou can kill all day long in self defense, in battle, and not murder anyone.

Don't you remember that Roman soldier who came to Jesus and asked Him what he should do? He was confused because here he was a soldier in a killing machine and he just learned about how God feels about killing. So he asked Him what he should do.

Jesus told him to go be a soldier and take no mans life.

Does that mean he could kill all day long still?

reply to post by jackflap


Here we see the desperate and pathetic attempts by the religious to try to quantify the act of killing into something approved by god, by trying to define what is murder and what is not murder in what are violent deliberate acts of killing someone.

Is it self defense to invade Iraq bombing it by air for days killing thousands with stand off and attack weapons and then claiming self defense when your column of tanks are shot on coming down the road 10,000 miles away from the home that they were made in?

Amazingly at the time this God of Israel appeared the earth was populated by dozens of different races of first world people none of which worshipped this God. None of which had even heard of this God.

Yet somehow this tiny desert God of a nomadic people of dubious history known for slave trading, and mercenary endeavors and violently fighting one another within a corrupt society of their own, is the one true God?

People who are descendant of these other races were taught to worship it in a violent process as it was relentlessly spread by the sword.

With absolutely not a trace of blood that would even trace back to that remote desert part of this world, not even born in the nation that was forced on the world through it's fictions in a violent process, people are prepared to put the sanctity of their own nation and security second to this nation, that tells us we are all worthless, stupid, and have opinions that does not matter, only their God's opinion matters even though no one has ever ever ever seen him.

Who preaches this garbage, people bent on domination through violence.

People using it as a basis to justify violence.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That's the whole thing Proto. Very good points made there. We send our military on rampages around the globe killing and setting things right supposedly. The faithful applaud the efforts and pray for the troops and their safety.

No one stands up and says that God doesn't want us doing that. Or I believe if we use the assets that we are about to expend on this venture in a humanitarian way, we could do something for real. Let's see, fourteen million saved from not launching the B-2's, one hundred fifty million for not redirecting our naval assets.

I believe we could do something really good with these resources. Fly in fifty enormous gas grills and land them on the beach. Fly in lobster tails and steaks and a couple of hundred barrels of beer. Get the lighting techs to wire the trees with some outdoor illumination and by all means get the music playing for heavens sake!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Well the confirmation of three locations is important because it dispells the assumption the bus was simply moved to get it out of potential harms way.

They took the bus on a photo op tour it appears.

Staging scenes as they did with teddy bears and other stuff for pure propaganda value it would seem.

Getting mileage out of that mileage.

It would be interesting to find out how they transported it from point to point and if it was actually drivable still.

Thanks for taking the time to do that project for the thread.

Great of you!

You're welcome. It gave me something to do between patrols and dodging tornadoes today, so I was glad to have it to do. The little woman was all in a tizzy over the weather, and called every half hour or so for a while to make sure my cute little home away from home hadn't been picked up and redeposited in Oz on top of a gnarly old witch.

There's no doubt the photos are part of a propaganda effort, but that by itself isn't a bad thing - it's just gotten a bad name over the last century or so because of misuse and abuses - those have been applied in a blanket sort of way to ALL propaganda. The word "propaganda" comes from the same Latin root as the word "propagate", and it originally meant nothing more than to "spread the news". It's just over the last century or so that it's taken on sinister meanings, ever since it was employed in a new way during WWI. The simple fact is that everyone uses it in one form or another, from the news networks to shadow networks to ATS posters to high school debaters to the guy at a bar on a Saturday night who just met an interesting young lady whom he hopes to make himself interesting to. Also a simple fact of the propaganda matter is that it runs the range from God's own truth to the blackest lie ever told regardless of the fact that most nowadays tend to associate it only with the black lie sort of "education". In simplest terms, it's an attempt to influence thought by "spreading the word", and whether that word is fact or not doesn't really enter into it.

That's probably for another thread, though. Maybe I'll one day make my second-ever ATS thread all about propaganda. Propaganda 101 if you will.

In THIS case, there's a certain core of truth that has been "gussied up" to sway opinion in some ways. The stuffed animals are a case in point. I doubt they were imported in to the scene, and were likely already present on the bus, probably in a decorative capacity. Someone saw them, and said "aha! drop that one here and this one there, and get some celluloid on it." It's possible that they were just randomly deposited where they were photographed during the course of the investigation, but not likely. Even less likely to think that the explosion itself left one neatly perched on the remains of the shattered windshield. Another example, again involving the stuffed animals, is the video where the cameraman pans the ravaged bus, then zooms in and alights on the solitary stuffed animal on the ground in front of the door of it. Fade to black.

The purpose of those two shots were to create a visceral reaction to an already horrific enough event. Basic marketing, basic propaganda.

The 3 separate photo sites ARE odd, but not too much so. I can think of one logical reason for it, and several logical reasons (from a propagandistic standpoint) NOT to do that. Good propaganda NEVER creates it's own questions about itself, as intentionally taking photos in 3 different locations would be bound to do, so I have to apply Occam's razor there, and say that wasn't intentional, nor was it part of the propaganda plan. In other words, that wasn't done by the propagandists. Much more likely to have been that the pictures were taken by different people, as the bus was being moved for legitimate purposes from one place to another. Probably one was at the initial kill zone, before any motion at all, then the next would be where it was dragged out of the way to clear the road or get out of the kill zone, and the last was at the staging areas preparatory to final disposition.

The core facts are these, irrespective of the propaganda effort: 1) it was a school bus, 2) it was hit by something warlike that appears to have exploded, 3) it was hit intentionally (warlike explosive things don't just generally pop up at random near school busses, out of nowhere) and 4) Hamas unabashedly took credit for the hit, whether lucky or targeted, on their own website, and crowed about it like it was a GOOD thing.

The propaganda effort is just icing on that cake, and both sides of the dispute appear to be milking the incident for all they can, slinging propaganda like a fry cook slings hash on a Sunday morning at IHOP.