'Most of us WANT to work past 65': Astonishing claim by IDS as he unveils overhaul which could pus

No one asked me! I would love to stop tomorrow and I am only 37. More media spin to get you think the way they want you to. No thanks!

The real problem in this nation, and in all the world to be quite honest, is greed. Greedy people taking more than they need, to the point where great swathes of honest, hardworking folk cannot own thier own homes outright, are forced to either rent or buy extremely unfavourable loans in order to secure thier dwellings, and cover the expenses associated with utilities and government tithes.

This is not the way man is supposed to live. We are told that we are free, but we are not. We are told that our lives are our own, and our destinies unwritten. This cannot be the case, when the people are made economicaly responsible for the faults of bankers and politicians.
I say again, government wasting money on bad contracts that they have signed up to for twenty years a piece are costing the British taxpayer more than any other contributing factor of national debt. The only reason this isnt commonly known is because the individual departments which are being fleeced rarely , if ever, share data on this.

The only reason I know it is because I have a source inside one of the effected departments, the HMRC.
Did you know that every building they operate from in this country is owned by Mapley ? That company is one of Britains biggest tax dodgers, and they bought each building they control on behalf of Her Majesties Revenue and Customs for a quid each. Meanwhile, they sell goods and services to those offices at massively inflated prices, on which they pay very little tax. They are skinning the very establishment which is supposed to protect us from such things, right under the governments nose, and rather than fix it, and save us all a heap of cash, the government are going to continue with the broken contract they agreed to , which prevents the HMRC from buying office products of every stripe, from the cleaning chemicals used to clean the toilets , to the sub standard pens and paper they use, from anywhere other than the Mapley catalogue.

So , rather than buying a replacement mouse for a computer for the normal price of between seven , and twelve pounds, the HMRC have to buy the exact same thing from Mapley for a whopping £68.99 . HMRC is by no means the only department getting stuffed in this manner. Expand that sort of overspend over every item , sold to every department in government , and you have an idea of how thoroughly we are getting stiffed by private companies and the government all at once.
If you think THAT is a pittance, I would be very suprised. Apathy on this subject is literaly killing us as we speak, and taking bread out of the mouths of the elderly of the future. It cannot go on.

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

This thread is about UK pensions not your ideas about getting robots to do all of our work. If I wanted to talk about that I would be in that thread, I don’t so I’m not.

Glad to see you're looking for solutions.

To others here: If we want to cast off slavery just now in our history has this become an option. Despite some who have closed their minds without inquiry or discussion, we can pass the word. If the ideas reach the tipping point, it will all be downhill into a world we will have to do nothing, and may do anything within the three Laws.

The problem of being made to work even longer than we already are will be solved.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Imagine a world where money was unneeded... Where people who love to solve problems can tackle anything without concern for profit or expense, arriving at the BEST solutions. Where Humans can do what brings them bliss and the "work" ethic is replaced by the "betterment" ethic.

Such absurdities would not take place. Slavery would not take place. Only blissful pursuit.

This is possible now - never before have we had in place what it would take. The ideas are presented in my threads, linked below: The End of Entropy and The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Thats the thing Amaterasu, I WANT to work, maybe not after sixty five, but I do want to . However, as hard as I work , I am not entitled to earn a living by law any more. Employers can offer jobs which do not pay enough, and even put the employee in a worse position than they would otherwise be in.
This is not acceptable. However, I need to work. When I was last unemployed, I had nothing to do and I went spare, apart from any worries I had about money, I went insane from having nothing to actualy physicaly do .
Money or no, government or no, I and most folks require a job to do , a purpose . I have one that I love right now, but I still will not be able to afford a home of my own, either bought or rented for another ten years at best.

I would say that he is 100% correct.

I don't know a single 'retired' person that is 100% 'retired'.

They just went from doing the job they HAD to do, to doing the job they WANT to do.

Some work fewer hours, some work even more (doing what they love maybe?), all of them have the money to never work again.

And they all tell me the same thing when I ask why they still work, "I tried retirement, but I got too bored."

I personally think that it keeps them feeling as part of society, not seperate, but that's a whole new thread in itself.

How far have we fallen that once again the majority will have to work until they drop, while the few will die with even more wealth than they ever needed in life?

Originally posted by peck420
I would say that he is 100% correct.

I don't know a single 'retired' person that is 100% 'retired'.

They just went from doing the job they HAD to do, to doing the job they WANT to do.

Some work fewer hours, some work even more (doing what they love maybe?), all of them have the money to never work again.

And they all tell me the same thing when I ask why they still work, "I tried retirement, but I got too bored."

I personally think that it keeps them feeling as part of society, not seperate, but that's a whole new thread in itself.

Nice to have the choice though hey?

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Thats the thing Amaterasu, I WANT to work, maybe not after sixty five, but I do want to . However, as hard as I work , I am not entitled to earn a living by law any more. Employers can offer jobs which do not pay enough, and even put the employee in a worse position than they would otherwise be in.

Ah, and that's the neat thing about the abundance paradigm... If you WANT to work, you can! And in fact, many will. But not for a paycheck - you can have all the food-clothing-shelter-tools you want - and if it feeds your bliss and does not break any of the three Laws...go for it!

This is not acceptable. However, I need to work. When I was last unemployed, I had nothing to do and I went spare, apart from any worries I had about money, I went insane from having nothing to actualy physicaly do

But if you didn't have to work - and you didn't have to worry about money - you would have greater opportunity to do what you LIKE to do - and then you can do that as much or as little as suits you.

Money or no, government or no, I and most folks require a job to do , a purpose . I have one that I love right now, but I still will not be able to afford a home of my own, either bought or rented for another ten years at best.

I agree. But wouldn't it be better if we could choose our jobs based on our bliss and not on how much we can bring home from our misery? Most people want to work - but most people hate the specific job they have. They want to do other things. They can't because there are little to no opportunities so they take what pays the bills.

Originally posted by peck420
I would say that he is 100% correct.

I don't know a single 'retired' person that is 100% 'retired'.

They just went from doing the job they HAD to do, to doing the job they WANT to do.

Some work fewer hours, some work even more (doing what they love maybe?), all of them have the money to never work again.

And they all tell me the same thing when I ask why they still work, "I tried retirement, but I got too bored."

I personally think that it keeps them feeling as part of society, not seperate, but that's a whole new thread in itself.

Yes, but this seems to be saying that people WANT to keep at the job they hate and have no opportunity to do the things they WANT to do. And therein is the issue. One is a wage slave if one is doing work one hates just for money to maintain life.

No, virtually ALL people want as much time to do what gives them bliss - not be retained many years past where they thought they could stop and focus on their own interests.

reply to post by TrueBrit


There’s a lot of waste, I don’t think anyone would question that, the issue is how is this to be clawed back? The fact that every government has tried suggests to me that it’s not that easy.

Also by my quick calculation the government would have to find an extra £39bn (todays prices) to cover the aging population. Can 6% of government spending be save through efficiency drives alone?

I've tried to find a decent estimate for government waste but I can't find anything authoritative.

reply to post by Amaterasu

Glad to see you're looking for solutions.

I’ve looked, I just disagree and don’t think here is the place to discuss my problems with the idea of “robots” as solution.

reply to post by Mike_A


I would choose an entirely new system that doesn't force people to work themselves to death.

END THE MONETARY SYSTEM.


RBE......it's time for a Resource Based Economy. Do the research people.

It's time to change.

When he said most of us. I think he meant MPs, as they do nothing but sit arround telling lies anyway. He definately wasnt speaking for me thats for sure.

What an ignorant elitist twit. The reason why most of us have to work till 65 or above is because we have to pay the selfish government higher taxes, mortgages, debts and student loans to selfish banks. I think I can speak for everybody here that if one could retire way before 65, they'd sure as hell do so.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
The reason why we will work until 70 is because we will fricken HAVE TO and not wan't to!

Yes, I love to work. So what?

Whats wrong with you people? Ive never seen such a negative bunch. What are you going to do when you quit working? Sit around in front of the tube?

Reply to post by Skyfloating

No, maybe i would like to travel, spend time with my family after not being able to do so because i had slogged my guts out for 50 and maybe feel entitled to sit on my ass and watch tv coz ive fricken earned it! But once this government is done i will end up having to sell my property that is my legacy to my kidsto fund any medical costs coz the nhs will not.. That or a trip to a suicide clinic in switzerland.. Lots to be positive about hey?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by Skyfloating

No, maybe i would like to travel, spend time with my family after not being able to do so because i had slogged my guts out for 50 and maybe feel entitled to sit on my ass and watch tv coz ive fricken earned it! But once this government is done i will end up having to sell my property that is my legacy to my kidsto fund any medical costs coz the nhs will not.. That or a trip to a suicide clinic in switzerland.. Lots to be positive about hey?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Mike_A


The reason its hard to find statistics on it, is because if we the taxpayer knew the level of loss to this particular factor, we would be up in arms asking for our missing billions. One more thing, no government has ever made a genuine effort to remove thieves from the contractor base of government service provision, never, ever.
If they had tried, it wouldnt be as it is today. What they have done is used the democratic process of talking about solving a problem, to hide the fact that they have done NOTHING physicaly about it. Theft from the state of that magnitude isnt just larceny its tantamount to bloody treason ! If anything had been done about it then several rich men would be in jail for fifteen years to life right now!

reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

The reason why most of us have to work till 65 or above is because we have to pay the selfish government higher taxes

In what way is the government being selfish by levying high taxes? They don’t actually keep the money!

reply to post by TrueBrit


To be blunt I just see no reason to believe that.

I don’t see any motivation for successive governments to perpetuate a wasteful system; I can see why the CS may want to cover up anything that shows them in a bad light but that doesn’t stop them actually solving the root problem.

Cutting waste would be a very easy and effective means of buying votes, either by decreasing taxes or increasing public spending. It’s a very tempting and low hanging fruit.

I don’t think corruption is a reasonable motive either, not when the waste is so diverse; unless you’re suggesting that successive ministers have all held stakes in everything from paperclip manufacturers to IT suppliers. If the motive was to make money on the sly I can think of a multitude of better ways to do it, not getting into government would be the first step!

Neither do I buy the logic that if they had tried then we wouldn’t have the current waste, that’s a bit like saying if they were really trying to cure cancer then we wouldn’t have cancer.

I would say a more plausible reason is massive complexity, a constantly changing management, engrained traditional departmental boundaries and multiple layers of bureaucracy.

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

 

The reason why most of us have to work till 65 or above is because we have to pay the selfish government higher taxes

In what way is the government being selfish by levying high taxes? They don’t actually keep the money!

reply to post by TrueBrit

 

To be blunt I just see no reason to believe that.

Are you looking with your eyes open to the possibility that its true? Or from the postition that you believe it to be false and have approached the subject on that basis?

I don’t see any motivation for successive governments to perpetuate a wasteful system; I can see why the CS may want to cover up anything that shows them in a bad light but that doesn’t stop them actually solving the root problem.

No , that doesnt, but the fact that solving the root problem means drasticaly changing the way money changes hands between private enterprises linked to government, and the departments for which it works, which although a one hit expenditure would be costly, means that plenty of people who have power but are not politicians will be very angry and withdraw support from key players . There is a web of scum at the top of this nation, and likely every other nation as well. Thats why nothing changes for the better.

Cutting waste would be a very easy and effective means of buying votes, either by decreasing taxes or increasing public spending. It’s a very tempting and low hanging fruit.

But the people in power do not require our votes . Its not as if the majority of people who voted Conservative last time around did it on the strength of thier manifesto or record!!! They voted that way because everyone wanted to see the back of the Labour party , and no one had the balls to straight up vote the LibDems in. It was a bloody compromise. Dont you see? The voting system has always been a system by which you merely choose who screws you next !

I don’t think corruption is a reasonable motive either, not when the waste is so diverse; unless you’re suggesting that successive ministers have all held stakes in everything from paperclip manufacturers to IT suppliers. If the motive was to make money on the sly I can think of a multitude of better ways to do it, not getting into government would be the first step!

Ministers do not need a stake in a company in order to benifit from its election to perform a duty , or provide goods and services to the state. They have other means of being reimbursed for thier time on the companies behalf. Ever heard of the cash for votes scam? Politicians got caught suggesting that they would sell a vote in parliament for cash. Thats exactly the sort of thing that leads down these dark paths. Ministers dont need shares or stakes in companies to get the company in by the back door! Just a little spending money for the holidays in the form of ten or twenty grand, maybe more if the vote is big. It has happened already .

Neither do I buy the logic that if they had tried then we wouldn’t have the current waste, that’s a bit like saying if they were really trying to cure cancer then we wouldn’t have cancer.

I would say a more plausible reason is massive complexity, a constantly changing management, engrained traditional departmental boundaries and multiple layers of bureaucracy.

On the cancer point, I hate to break it to you, but if the powers that be were doing all they could to assist in the elimination of all cancer, then they wouldnt allow NICE to prevent new medications that the rest of the world has access to, that are known to work , from entering the NHS supply line so often. The fact that they do is largely down to a lack of money, bought on by exactly the sort of professional fraud which ACTUALY caused our nations economic troubles.

And on the problems of massive complexity in the government, are you actualy saying that this bunch of people who got themselves elected arent up to the task as it sits before them? The people who jostle for our vote (as much as that can change anything... ha!) and come out victorious have a duty to the PEOPLE of the nation. That duty , is not to do thier best by us, or do what ever they can, but to do ALL THAT MUST BE DONE AND GET IT RIGHT EVERY SINGLE DAMNED TIME!!!! If they are incapable of this task, then they should not be in the race for election, they should not be involving themselves in the affairs of the state. They should in short, aim a little lower, and do a different job.