Are you a "targeted individual" or a paranoid schizophrenic?

I agree. Time to let the spirit (which means "breathe" in Latin) out...
I had just started reading your topic and I am really enjoying.
On my way to exercising.
My best thoughts go to you as well.
Ciao!

a reply to: tetra50

Yes, I try to keep them neat and energized as much as possible.
Thank you for your assistance and happy friday to you guys.
Ah!
And keep your mind's strength.
We are all connected at this time and we all feel each other.


a reply to: tetra50

I'm not using "meditation" as in close your eyes and breathe. I keep my eyes open and use my conciousness by looking inside moving my visualization until I get a response, when I locate the access point I start using the field shrinking and brain movements and also memory clearing. This technique will eventualy let you feel the implant/programmed parts of you.

a reply to: missgaia
Hi missgaia
When embedding YouTube videos - remove all of the url...beginning with "https//:...." up to and including the equal ("=") sign...
Here is the video you apparently tried to post, earlier.

Thank you!

a reply to: WanDash

Schizsolved.blog.com

Here's a site that catalogs my process to block voices.

Reply to Restricted

Meds are overrated and don't work all that well. I still hear things, see things, feel things, smell things, and taste things. I still have voices in my head and I still get messages from everything around me.

But at least you are now aware that they are not real, and can deal with them based on that knowledge. Surely that is an improvement on how things were before you started taking your medication?

There is one voice that is kind. I am loathe to lose it.

Recognize this for the fetter it is.

Buddhists acknowledge that the desire for enlightenment is an obstacle to achieving it.

*

Related reply to GENERAL EYES

For those on the Schizophrenic spectrum, the voices are - most definitely - completely real for them....and to deny that simple fact, is to completely deny that individual's reality, experiences and perceptions. It's dehumanizing and immediately puts most on the defensive.

I am sorry, but I cannot accept this. The 'voices' may be real to the hearer, but the fact is that they are not real, meaning that they do not emanate from a person and are not, in fact, voices. The hearer is suffering a delusion.

To acknowledge that the voices seem real to the hearer is to understand the hearer's plight. Sympathy, support and possibly help for the hearer stem from that understanding. To pretend that the voices are real in some way is to pretend that a schizophrenic's perceptions are as accurate as anyone else's. This is patent nonsense, and nothing can come of it except the kind of stupid reverse-transference indulged in by people like the alcoholic, depressive, serial adulterer and fantasist R.D. Laing. Instead of one sick person, you end up with two or more.

You suggest that to dismiss a schizophrenic's 'voices' as delusions is to 'deny that individual's reality'. Well, G.E., it is and it isn't, because that phrase can be interpreted two ways. One is that people who won't pretend the voices are real are somehow denying the schizophrenic's existence or individuality. That's nonsense, and when repeated by a schizophrenic, it becomes self-pitying nonsense. The other interpretation is that one is merely denying the schizophrenic's model of reality. This is unavoidable and necessary. The model is not only wrong, it is the cause of great distress not only to the sufferer but to anyone who cares for her. Denying it — showing it to be a delusion — is an essential step in the direction of a cure, or at least an alleviation of the sufferer's misery.

It seems to me that you have, in your posts here, conflated the actual persecution schizophrenics occasionally suffer at the hands of cruel and unfeeling people with the imaginary persecution they perceive due to their condition. That seems to me a frighteningly dangerous way of looking at things, calculated not to help the sufferer but to drive them deeper into a world of illusion and torment. Perhaps things seem different from your point of view; such a compromise may appear to you as a valid coping mechanism or a step along the road to recovery. Perhaps it is; but you must surely acknowledge that a schizophrenic's perceptions and judgments in this matter are also affected by her condition and therefore not entirely to be trusted.

At the end of the day — in spite of all the logic-chopping and euphemistic talk of 'different realities' — sanity and insanity are two very different states of being. There is only one reality, and though it may be apprehended in billions of unique ways, perceptions of it that stray to far from the mean are what we call insanity — a condition to be cured, or at least alleviated. Pardon, once again, my bluntness.

Reply to WandDash

It seems this thread has proved at least one useful thing: people with this problem (whatever it is) can't do self-help groups.

originally posted by: Astyanax
...At the end of the day — in spite of all the logic-chopping and euphemistic talk of 'different realities' — sanity and insanity are two very different states of being. There is only one reality, and though it may be apprehended in billions of unique ways, perceptions of it that stray to far from the mean connote insanity — a condition to be cured, or at least alleviated. Pardon, once again, my bluntness.

...

Pardon the chopping...but, you have demanded, once again, that your reality - your belief system...is the only acceptable reality...and any/every-thing else...must be corrected to fall in line, therewith.
This is not unlike saying - "I've had an epiphany... Now, I see it all...so plainly." ...while poo-pooing all other epiphanies...that don't agree with yours.
(emergent question ---- What's the inherent value of an epiphany?)

Where is the "too far from the mean"...border line?
What device or instrument of measure do you propose might establish this...boundary?
Would it apply to...someone that sees an unexplainable flying object...who is ever-after affected by said sighting...?
Or - would it apply to...someone that has been talked to...by the Holy Ghost/Spirit...in accordance with their religious belief system?
Might it apply to...Anyone who believes in Any particular religious catechism?
What about those who believe that, in prayer...they are actually communicating with...and receiving communication from...a higher -or- Divine power/being?
What about those who believe in miracles, magic, mind-over-matter and other...shamanistic/woo-woo traditions?
What about OOBEs, NDEs, Astral Travel, Lucid Dreaming... ?

Guess they will need to consult with you, first...
I get it... Your way...or the 'Bye'-way.

Dogma is assertive...and blunt...and closed-minded.

Good for you. You have the makings of a coarsely-ground dictator.

Love ya stillllll.
Have a good day.

ETA:

originally posted by: Astyanax
...It seems this thread has proved at least one useful thing: people with this problem (whatever it is) can't do self-help groups.

Yeah... Self-Help! That's fun. Who needs a freaking psychologist that's more messed up than...you?

a reply to: Astyanax

No worries. Your'e entitled to your opinion on the matter.

All I wish to say is that if you met me, you would probably never know that I have auditory hallucinations. I don't talk about them unless it's with close friends who are aware of my condition and they ask directly about them, or I'm checking in for a routine update with my case worker, doctor, or therapist....or here on the internet because I'm predominantly housebound for a co-morbidity of social anxiety and several unrelated health issues.

So tell me, what difference does it matter if my voices are "real" or not if they aren't causing anyone else any real life discomfort or distress? The majority don't tell me to harm anyone, they don't tell me to harm myself or engage in dangerous or risky behavior, and the ones that do get a simple and direct direction to where they can go....silently.

I'm not going to deny a very real aspect of my reality just because it suits someone else's comfort zone online.

Now, if I was out there on the street corner screaming obscenities at the sky in front of elderly ladies, children and all of God's Creation, if I was approaching people suspected of being the origins of these voices in my head and confronting them rudely and aggressively- you might have a case against me. But seeing as how this is an open thread for the discussion of the phenomena, I fail to understand why I suddenly have to sit down, shut up and "play pretend" on your terms because it suits whatever vendetta you have against other people who experience this phenomena.

Has it ever occurred to you that deep within the primitive and frontal lobe of ancient mammalian brains, there may have been a initial method of silent communication before the dawn of the spoken word? Maybe schizophrenia is nothing more than some long dormant part of the brain becoming activated in some people...maybe it's anscetral memories encoded in DNA, maybe it's latent telepathy somehow activated by psychoactive substances. I can't claim to know the answer, but at least I'm open to exploring such possibilities in hopes of advancing the realm of neuro-psychiatry and neurosurgery in order to help potentially allieviate the more severe and uncontrollable symptoms of chronically suffering patients.

it doesn't mean we're better or superior, it just means we've got some neural activity going on that a lot of people may not.

Some people have an easier transition into it. Like I said, I've heard voices since I was a very young child.
Each voice is an individual. Each one has it's own mannerisms and vocal frequency, quirks and personalities.

For heavens sake, you make this out as if "hearing voices" is a signal of the End Times or some sort of rabid Mutant Uprising.

Imagine how you would feel if one day you woke up in that bungalow you claim you're living in and found out you were, in reality, just plugged into a nice Memory Simulation Machine you paid a couple grand to take time away from the real world and the stress of your job.

Imagine telling people about what a relaxing experience you had while you were plugged in and having everyone look you flatly and dead in the eye with a condescending "It wasn't real". Over and over and over...as if somehow incessant repetition of that singular statement would somehow knock you back to your senses.

I bet you might get a little pissed off over that after a while. I know I sure do.

So let's just drop this issue between us....you aren't going to convince me my experiences aren't valid while I'm still dealing with it as it comes, day by day and moment by moment.

Besides, if I'm hooked up to one of those Memory Generators, I'd rather stay in my comfortable Soma Dream than go back to the world you're insisting is "The One All Inclusive Reality"...because, come on - we both know that place is utter bull#....and I know because I've seen enough glimpses behind the veil.

Not interested, no thanks, you can keep that particular Brave New World.



Now, If you'll excuse me, I think my interest in this thread has run it's course.
I have no further contributions.

It's been an interesting exchange of perspectives here, to be sure....but now I formally take my leave.

Goodnight and God Bless.

a reply to: Astyanax

I wasn't going to wade into this mess anymore, but I find I can't help myself.

I feel you need a few doses of Terence McKenna, as the shamanic approach is where It's at. WanDash has kindly already suggested this.

McKenna is all over, so you'll have no difficulty locating his material.

You, admittedly, have a closed-minded approach to things. Perhaps it's time you cracked that vault and let the sun shine in. You might even learn something new, maybe even about yourself.

a reply to: WanDash

you have demanded, once again, that your reality - your belief system...is the only acceptable reality...and any/every-thing else...must be corrected to fall in line, therewith.

Not at all. I am merely pointing out that most people apprehend the sensory world in ways that are, if not identical, at least broadly similar. It isn't my reality; it's everybody's, with the exception of a few unhappy, unwell people.

this is not unlike saying - "I've had an epiphany... Now, I see it all...so plainly." ...while poo-pooing all other epiphanies...that don't agree with yours.

Nothing to do with epiphanies. We are discussing plain, bog-standard reality here. A condition that is much the same for everyone, except a few people whose brains don't handle sensory data the way they're supposed to.

Where is the "too far from the mean"...border line?

When you can't make other people believe what you say or understand your perception of reality, you have strayed too far from the mean.

Would it apply to...someone that sees an unexplainable flying object...who is ever-after affected by said sighting...?

Yes.

However, it would not apply to someone who saw a UFO, was puzzled or disturbed by it perhaps, but then went back to living life as normal, understanding that mysterious lights in the sky are actually rather common, and usually have a mundane explanation of some kind.

Or - would it apply to...someone that has been talked to...by the Holy Ghost/Spirit...in accordance with their religious belief system?

Yes. I'd say such a person was as crazy as a bedbug, whatever their belief system.

Might it apply to...Anyone who believes in Any particular religious catechism?

No.

What about those who believe that, in prayer...they are actually communicating with...and receiving communication from...a higher -or- Divine power/being?

Not unless they literally start hearing God's voice inside their heads.

What about those who believe in miracles, magic, mind-over-matter and other...shamanistic/woo-woo traditions?

False belief is not schizophrenic delusion. The difference between the two is perfectly obvious. Until not too long ago I believed that the song 'Till There Was You' was written by Paul McCartney. That turned out to be a false belief; it was actually written by someone else. But the falsity of my belief had no consequences, one way or another, for my sanity.

I get it... Your way...or the 'Bye'-way.

No. Not my way. Reality's way, which remains the same whatever you, I or the King of Thailand have to say about it.

Dogma is assertive...and blunt...and closed-minded.

I suppose you do realise that your entire position is a highly biased and dogmatic one?

You have the makings of a coarsely-ground dictator.

Simply because I disagree with you? There, there...

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

What difference does it matter if my voices are "real" or not if they aren't causing anyone else any real life discomfort or distress?

Do they not cause you distress? That matters.

if I was out there on the street corner screaming... you might have a case against me.

I have no case against you, nor do I wish to prosecute one.

I merely pointed out that, by conflating real and imaginary persecution in your posts on this thread, you may be helping reinforce other people's delusions.

I fail to understand why I suddenly have to sit down, shut up and "play pretend" on your terms because it suits whatever vendetta you have against other people who experience this phenomena.

You don't have to. I certainly didn't ask or expect you to. I have no vendetta against anybody, I am simply arguing that people who claim to be 'targeted individuals' and 'victims of gangstalking' are imagining things.

Neurons are found to change speed in voice hearers, so something is being perceived.

originally posted by: sanitizedinfo
Neurons are found to change speed in voice hearers, so something is being perceived.

Even if true, correlation is not causation.

You posit that hearing the voices changes the conduction speed. It's far more likely that hearing voices and conduction speed changes are both indicative of a larger issue. Like, for instance, general neurochemical imbalance.

The other way is sort of like your car running out of gas, then you concluding that the AC must be perceiving that the car's wheels are no longer turning, and has stopped working due to this perception. Both are indicative of a lack of fuel.

a reply to: Bedlam

Perhaps, I have ample evidence to prove to myself it is induced

"No. Not my way. Reality's way, which remains the same whatever you, I or the King of Thailand have to say about it. "

a reply to: Astyanax

Maybe in the serpent's eyes -- aka yours for this matter as your pic shows -- there is only one reality. I guarantee that what the King of Thailand sees is not the same way you do. The language barrier would do its trick for explaining it, unless you were also from there, which my guess is that you are not.
Or maybe, you should open both of eyes, since one of them only limits the whole perspective.

Some traveling is recommended... or learning another language (something more than "hasta la vista, baby").

However, in the end, maybe this life is not the one for you to experience the whole, just fragments of "it".

a reply to: Astyanax
Yeah – this could get into a long, drawn-out effort with no meaning, and that would absolutely detract from the point of the thread… So – I’ll rather, address your two final comments…

I said – “Dogma is assertive...and blunt...and closed-minded.”
You replied – “I suppose you do realise that your entire position is a highly biased and dogmatic one?”
I’ll be as lenient as possible, here, and presume that you have poor reading comprehension skills.
What ‘dogma’ (or – dogmatic principles) do you propose that I have presented…or, have you deduced from anything I have stated?

I said – “You have the makings of a coarsely-ground dictator. …”
You replied – “Simply because I disagree with you? There, there...”
What did you disagree with? I must have made some proclamation that you disagreed with… Mind identifying it…?

Thanks

a reply to: WanDash

What ‘dogma’ (or – dogmatic principles) do you propose that I have presented…or, have you deduced from anything I have stated?

The principle that all worldviews are valid.

What did you disagree with?

The belief that any TI and gangstalking claims are genuine.

a reply to: Astyanax
Then - the possibility I proposed...was accurate... You have poor reading comprehension skills.
At no point have I claimed or represented to hold either of those views.
Thanks for you participation.